Teaching Contract not being renewed.

[KhnomKhnom]

I thought the mandatory retirement age in Thailand is 65. Some can stretch that a little bit for cause and by classifying person as emergency need. That latter can not go on forever because employer is expected to find a qualified non-emergency person to fill that job.

I will be very surprised if you can get any legal job after age 65. Please tell this venue if you do and how. Thanks.

[lostinisaan]

Vous finissez travaillé illégalement de l'histoire. Ta faute et ne peut rien faire. Vous êtes également à l'extrémité supérieure de la retraite obligatoire de sorte qu'il sera difficile de trouver du travail, sauf si vous offrez quelque chose qu'ils ne peuvent pas trouver normalement comme doctorat, ou un ensemble de compétences particulières.

En ce qui concerne réticence sur les impôts, ils doivent encore payer des impôts, même si vous êtes illégal donc oui, ils peuvent déduire. Vous travaillé pendant 3 ans, alors vous n'avez probablement avez 2 dérogations.

Gee Zeichen, merci pour l'information éclairante. Votre connaissance (manque de) sur le sujet me submerge. Âge de la retraite obligatoire? Vraiment? Je MUT eu deux dérogations? Peut-être que je devrais contacter le TCT et leur faire savoir que leur système d'information doit être mise à jour, car il ne montre une renonciation (oui, j'ai vérifié mes deux anciens et les nouveaux numéros de passeport). Je suis désolé, mais j'ai fait assez de recherches sur le sujet de savoir que vous n'avez aucune idée de ce que vous parlez. Je vais dire que vous avez fait me donner un bon rire, et grâce à cela.

It amuses you, but that person is right.

You have illegally benefited from a post without having any diploma, and at your age, you want to work forever.

I am not surprised that Thai students be so insignificant in school.

How comes that there's a new thread with understandable questions and worries, but people just make things up.

Your post just isn't helpful at all, your sentence to work forever is insane.

Where did you read that the OP doesn't have a degree? Okay, might need new glasses then.

Edited July 24, 2014 by lostinisaan

[kingstonkid]

It is funny how people say that there is no room for teaching in this country after 65 or 60.

If you at all bother to look at websites there is a demand for NES. While the better schools may not want an older teacher as long as you are healthy and can relate to the students there is o problem getting work. Especially if you have all the requirements to get a work permit.

OP my only suggestion other than look for a good job somewhere else is to find out how you can get yourself n the TCT courses and when the next one is.

I might also suggest that if at all possible that you start saving money so that in a few years you have the funds to get a retirement extension and then you can teach in your spare time at your leisure from home.

[zeichen]

Lost in issan. how did that quote get translated into french?

[isawasnake]

The portion on severance pay does not apply to Private Schools, according to the private school act.

I appreciate all information given in good faith, but I believe this to be a much more complicated issue than is generally thought. I have been through one of these, with a private school, and here is my take. I swear this info should somehow be made a sticky, because I feel it to be correct.

There is obviously something called the private school act, but if you read all of the minutia within it, the details actually work against the schools imo. To be considered a private school, and receive the "benefits" of this act, you must comply by putting certain things in your contract. If these things are not in the contract, you are not in compliance. What are these "things". Well, they are easily identifiable because they will look like things the school would never want to put in there. For example: "school must give employee 30 days notice before termination" or "failure to follow school policies will result in a verbal warning, if problem continues, a written warning.... if problem still continues, termination".

As you can see, no school in their right mind would want this stuff in their contract. They make them put this in there to be in compliance with the private school act.

So, for one, you need to get a list of all the stuff that is supposed to be in your contract. If it isn't there, the school is already in violation.

Two, and I am sure more universally useful, if the school does not follow the policy within their own contract (ie the stuff they were forced to put in there), then it is like this act does not apply to them, and have at them when i comes to severance. In essence, if the school doesn't comply by way of putting these things in the contract, and if they don't actually follow them, they open themselves up to severance pay.

I think the private school act is one of the most misunderstood aspects of teaching in Thailand. I actually feel like it works more in favor of the teacher, because to fail to comply by the school could open them up to all sorts of issues, up to and including who knows if they have multiple problems.... they could be shut down. Some of these schools are making bundles of course, and they will never even want to take a chance with this. This leaves the teacher who has been treated unfairly in a very leveraged position.

Anyway, I should note I wont argue about all this, that is just what I think given my experience. I think thousands of teachers have seen the words "private school act" and given up immediately when they most definitely should not have.

Even though I wrote that above, nothing is so solid here in Thailand. My advice is the same as before to anybody reading this: if you have been wronged, go to the labor court with a Thai and see how it goes. If some contractual obligations have been broken, and you don't give up, you will have a great chance to come out on top.

Edited July 24, 2014 by isawasnake

[rct99q]

2. Taxes.....It makes no difference to Revenue Thailand if you have a work permit or not you must file income tax if you make money in Thailand....

My understanding of the OP was that he thought taxes were being deducted from his pay, but not remitted to the tax authorities. In other words, he suspected his employer was sitting on the cash.

In that scenario, with no WP as well, the employee - through no fault of his own, and despite his best efforts to remain legal - is off the books/radar as far as the authorities are concerned.

I am not sure what you mean, sorry. The OP is still required to file income tax and if money is owed he must pay. If by some hook or crook the agency has not forwarded his deductions (which he should have shown on

his monthly pay statement) that will be a matter between the employer, employee, and revenue thailand. One in which if the employee can show deductions made will have no problems.

[Scott]

First of all, the provision that you mention in the Private School Act are in our contract, or in the personnel policies that are an addendum to the contract.

Second, there have been numerous thread about people seeking severance, but it has not been granted. People have received payment for unfair dismissal and for other aspects related to the contractual obligation, but not for severance.

Numerous threads haven't shown any first hand experience with severance pay from Private schools.

....But I fear we are getting off-topic.

[isawasnake]

First of all, the provision that you mention in the Private School Act are in our contract, or in the personnel policies that are an addendum to the contract.

Second, there have been numerous thread about people seeking severance, but it has not been granted. People have received payment for unfair dismissal and for other aspects related to the contractual obligation, but not for severance.

Numerous threads haven't shown any first hand experience with severance pay from Private schools.

....But I fear we are getting off-topic.

I tried to swear to myself I would not argue this, because this topic pushed my buttons and I really don't want to go there, but I feel what you have said is just wrong. Should I report on my own first hand experience to make the claim valid. I am sure this would not suffice?

The thing is, if what you are saying is true, private schools could just do whatever the hell they wanted, with impunity. I assure you from experience that this is not true, and also, why would you even think that can be true? You walk into work one day after 15 years of service at a private school (for example's sake), they tell you that you are fired, and you think there is no recourse? Anyway

There is a lot of confusion surrounding this private school act. Perhaps a thread could be constructed actually dissecting the document. And no, I am not volunteering

[Scott]

Nor am I, but thanks for the input.

[onlycw]

The tax issue should have been brought up immediately, ie, "I have no work permit, why are you taking taxes! If you don't stop taking that I wont work". I would take that very seriously, and should have been done immediately. It is the same thing as somebody just taking money out of your pocket. We are in Thailand, and the money is now gone, and you will have more trouble than it is even worth getting it back. But it surely is due to you.

Filing a tax return is easy. do it. For that you will need a form (forgot the name, something 90?) by the employer listing the deductions.

I've encountered this kind of fraud. When you can't reclaim amounts because these were not paid in, then this is FRAUD.

You are living in "Animal Farm" over here. I know a teacher in his 70s and he's been getting WPs etc. No common standards, eh?

By not taking it lying down, you will help others, JMHO. What have you got to lose? Labour Court will be free. And my wife is an accountant - she can file that tax return for you in minutes (free of charge, of course). I always got all taxes refunded... *** But I've been swindled, too. Like with the SS contributions and the 'hospital" they said they "registered" me. after months of payments or rather DEDUCTIONS, I needed treatment and was billed as I wasn't in the computer. Someone likes to embezzle monies. What's new? I saw the list with actual salaries of all teachers and noticed discrepancies to the amounts paid out to some foreign teachers. again, someone seems to be syphoning off some of the salaries greenlited by the school.

[lostinisaan]

Lost in issan. how did that quote get translated into french?

That's indeed a good question, the Mods might know.

[Scott]

Lost in issan. how did that quote get translated into french?

That's indeed a good question, the Mods might know.

The situation is being checked into right now. It is probably a technical issue as it appears to have come from a previous quote. The techie guys are exploring it.

[lostinisaan]

Lost in issan. how did that quote get translated into french?

That's indeed a good question, the Mods might know.

The situation is being checked into right now. It is probably a technical issue as it appears to have come from a previous quote. The techie guys are exploring it.

Could it be that a French poster was using a translation program and then forgot to leave it in English??

[Scott]

It's off-topic, and it is being handled by the techie guys. It appears that it was originally translated from French to English but when it is copied, it reverts to French....but way beyond my pay-grade or area of expertise.

[WonnabeBiker]

According to the Department of Labor website every worker including foreign teachers are entitled to severence pay and this is calculated on number of years working for company/school. There are some variations to scales of severance and how this is paid depending on industry. Two friends of mine recently had a severance pay dispute with a school, they went to the Department of Labor and the department rang the school and suggested they pay or face a court case. The school paid up. I dont think your agency would like to have to explain how they were using illagal employees in a school, neither would the school. You are probably not the only illagal working for them and could make them feel uncomfortable.

Working without a permit in a school is a 10,000 baht fine for a school and 20,000 for the employee and possible deportation. Working with a permit but not performing the prescribed job is also the same fine and loss of work permit and associated permission to stay.

Re your second paragraph: I read somewhere that the employee would have to pay 100,000. are you sure it's now only 20,000? Just asking as I feel this indicates the level of bias. as it takes two to tango and the schools are just as much to blame when things aren't done by the book.

The real power is with them. Try making them do anything they don't want to do, including adhere to Thai laws or granting access to the government's SS system.

Some don't bother with taxes either.

Other schools never had one foreign teacher who had a B-Visa!

[harrry]

What you do depends on what risks you are willing to take. One of the problems is that there are different laws that cover different situations and we do not know all the nuances of your particular situation. You are covered under Thai Labor Laws whether you have a work permit or do not. Even illegal workers are covered by the law. Of course, once they pursue an action, there may be a price to pay for not having the work permit -- that's the great unknown. So, can you pursue this issue. Yes.

Are you eligible for severance pay? Probably not -- at least not in the ordinary sense of severance pay. The Court could decide that you are owed for the money to the end of your contract. But if you do not have a contract then I have no idea how they would determine an end date. The court could also determine that you have been unfairly dismissed. There is a special exemption for severance pay for Private schools and it is covered a separate law for Private Schools. How your agency is licensed may determine what laws are applicable.

If you have a tax ID No. they can pay into that account. I don't believe, but I don't know for sure and I am not a lawyer, that the tax situation is tied to your Work Permit. Initially getting the tax ID number would be but keeping it may not.

Much of the time, when a person pursues legal action, the MOL, will try to negotiate a settlement to avoid a court battle. That means they may pay you some of what you believe is owed to you but not necessarily all.

If the agency has lost the contract with the school, then they have a reasonable case to terminate your employment at the end of the contract. Why would they keep an employee for whom they don't have a job? If I hire someone to paint my house, once he is finished, I would not generally retain his services.

Consulting with the MOL might be a good idea. A lot of attorneys, unless they specialize in labor related cases, are not really very good with this sort of thing and they are expensive. The MOL may be able to give guidance as to if they feel your situation warrants action or not.

Best of luck.

Scott, I think that when an agency employs a person they work for the agency not the school. Any severance is something to do with the agency. The agency losing the contract with the school would not give them grounds to break their contract with the teacher. They would have to find another place for the person to work or terminate the contract with the teacher and pay all the penalties applying to that,. It is not as if they were employed by the school and the school closed which may give grands for the school to terminate its contract with the teacher.