Pheu Thai 'to boycott Reform Council'

[northernjohn]

I hope this report is mistaken, or premature.

Ms Yingluck was willing to promise reform after the elections, which she expected to go her way, her party cannot simply pretend that the need for reform has disappeared, because "even if their members are appointed to join the reform council, they will only manage to constitute a minority".

Their ideas are still valid, and nobody should expect to be able to dictate the reforms proposed, through having a majority. They're not in-power now, but their arguments are still worth hearing, aren't they ?

PTP's refusal to participate in reform would be as wrong as the Dems' refusal to take part in an election, and as short-sighted.

Then again the PTP had a leader. This is no longer true. No brown envelopes or phone calls.

I have absolutely no use for them but I am sure they do have some people who are qualified to sit in and make suggestions with out being told what to say.

The way the report reads it is my way or the highway. The same attitude that got them thrown out on their ear. Or shall we say on the highway.

[rickirs]

"Pheu Thai leaders have concluded that even if their members are appointed to join the reform council, they will only manage to constitute a minority."

I think some TV readers rush to misunderstand the point being made by PTP, maybe out of political bias to say the least.

The issue is who will make the DECISIONS in the reform council for what reforms will be adopted? If the appointed majority of the members are directly (ie., under military chain of command) or indirectly controlled (ie., through military retirement, intimidation, threat, political association) by the Junta leaders who will have, according to Nations, absolute power over the National Assembly/Interim Charter/the Constitution, members of the minority individually and as a whole will have no say in what reforms are adopted. With regard to the PTP, Gen. Prayuth has taken actions to eradicate the PTP's political ideology from having any influence in the nation's future.

So other than potentially being used by the Junta as political window dressing and implied consent through participation to whatever reforms the Council adopts, there is no point with PTP's participation in the Council. In fact under martial law its leaders could be charged under numerous Junta directives and tried by the military court depending on their conduct in the Council.

[DrDweeb]

"Gen. Prayuth has taken actions to eradicate the PTP's political ideology from having any influence in the nation's future."

You say this with the conviction of someone who "believes", and like it would be a bad thing

[smutcakes]

Other than having the NCPO all the other NRC, NLA are completely pointless and a waste of money.

Section 44 of the interim constitution states that the NCPO will have complete, absolute and unlimited power to do what they want. They may as well just do everything themselves, rather than putting up some expensive/time consuming window dressing.

I notice they squeezed in an amnesty for themselves as well!

Abhisit has been criticizing section 44 as well on his facebook, but i guess we wont read about those negative comments on TVF.

Also no mention of a referendum (Yawn)

[siampolee]

The human birthing process is somewhat dramatic and painful (or so the missus told me. )

So is there any difference in the birth of a new more open less corrupt administration in which the checks and balances are strong enough to hopefully balance power use properly ?

So why is it that those oh so recently past dedicated to the puppet masters nations interest representative are complaining?

A little voice is better than no voice.

No pain no gain we are told.

[Paulzed]

Peeeuww Thai Party, you stink!!!

[smutcakes]

The human birthing process is somewhat dramatic and painful (or so the missus told me. )

So is there any difference in the birth of a new more open less corrupt administration in which the checks and balances are strong enough to hopefully balance power use properly ?

So why is it that those oh so recently past dedicated to the puppet masters nations interest representative are complaining?

A little voice is better than no voice.

No pain no gain we are told.

They dont have any power whatsoever, the NCPO under section 44 have absolute and unlimited power to do what they want, regardless of what their appointed puppets persons advise or say. That is worse than before, not better.

Edited July 24, 2014 by smutcakes

[siampolee]

smutcakes post # 37

They dont have any power whatsoever, the NCPO under section 44 have absolute and unlimited power to do what they want, regardless of what their appointed puppets persons advise or say. That is worse than before, not better.

So it would appear that those conditions are exactly the same as the last P.T.P. administration wished to bring onto play to emasculate any opposiion to the Messiah Shinwatra?

However there is a lot more openness here and the population at large favour the current policies and administration set up despite all its hypothetically perceived faults.

[rubl]

...

Also no mention of a referendum (Yawn)

"IT WILL be decided at a later stage whether the permanent charter to be drafted by the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) will be put to a national referendum."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745522-no-decision-yet-on-referendum-to-endorse-thai-constitution/

[smutcakes]

smutcakes post # 37

They dont have any power whatsoever, the NCPO under section 44 have absolute and unlimited power to do what they want, regardless of what their appointed puppets persons advise or say. That is worse than before, not better.

So it would appear that those conditions are exactly the same as the last P.T.P. administration wished to bring onto play to emasculate any opposiion to the Messiah Shinwatra?

However there is a lot more openness here and the population at large favour the current policies and administration set up despite all its hypothetically perceived faults.

How in the world do you know what the 'population at large' favour? Openness? really?

How much are they spending on the Government house renovation? the military would not give details. Infrastructure budgets approved the same as previous Govt, details? Where is this openness you speak of? The Junta telling the media they are not allowed to be critical? Is that openness?

The NCPO may in time turn out to be very positive for the country, maybe i am being overly skeptical, but everything they do and say seems not to be dealing with the core of the countries problems, more just window dressing. Maybe in time i will be proven wrong, resetting the clock 20 years does not cure the problems of the country. A quick look down previous Govt, both military and civilian sees nearly all of them without question being mired in corruption scandals. What steps have really been done to solve this? Cronyism, just look at the names and backgrounds........ is the head of the economy currently really the most qualified person to undertake this role etc etc etc

I personally dont see them being able to make real inroads into it, even if they are really willing. The patronage, cronyism, corruption is just to deep rooted among the upper echelons and decision makers/power brokers for it to change. It was something leveled against the Democrat Govt that to be able to form the Govt and control it, there were to many parties/factions needed to be kept together (bought) to enable them to control things. I am hoping that for the NCPO to keep control and have the commitment from so many powerful factions, Political, armed forces, big business that all want their cake in expense for their support that they are not setting themselves up for a fall.

In my view 99% of all people, business do what is best for themselves. If they are reaping rewards for loyalty that loyalty will remain, if the rewards stop the commitment will waiver. I hope the NCPO are not making promises to these powerful figures and entities they are unable to keep.

[Ricardo]

"Mr. Chavalit explained that no one will want to join the committee, which is tasked with penning a permanent charter, because the 2014 Interim Constitution prohibits the committee members from running for political office for two years."

Deprive the country of our valuable guidance for two years, just because we provide valuable assistance and guidance in a committee? What would the country do without us being in a political office

The traditional Thai way round this problem, is surely to put up some close family-members, to represent the politician & his/her party's views.

Or perhaps someone might be found, who doesn't want their place on the gravy-tra ... oh no, what am I saying ?

[Thanet]

And so the cycle of hopelessness that is Thai politics enters another round.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Thanet

[pattayaorganic]

Why should anyone want to participate in this charade? The country is being adjusted and it isn't in a way that is best for the majority of the people ie the poorer section. Obviously you all will think I love Thaksin, but that particular failure of understanding is not my problem.

So you are saying that the policies that left farmers desperate and committing suicide but enriched the corrupt politicians and "connected" people at the top of the food chain were actually good for the poor?

The minimum wage policy that is now proven to have negative benefit for the poorest of the poor due to inflation, was also good policy for the poor?

What people like you fail to see, by lack of understanding or a more sinister hidden agenda, is that the populist policies are superficially designed to look like they are helping the poor so they can garner their votes but anybody with 3 brain cells and half an education can see that the fact is these policies are designed for either one of two reasons:

1) to gain votes and hence power

2) to enrich those in power

So PLEASE, my friend, do not play the poor, poor people card with us. We can see through your disingenuity.

A healthy policy to help the poor MUST be centred upon education and learning skills valuable to industry thereby allowing the increased productivity to result in higher REAL wages that will not be eaten by inflation.

If, PTP were, by chance, ever to support a real policy to help the poor and not help themselves to the trough, I would be their biggest supporter.

[smutcakes]

...

Also no mention of a referendum (Yawn)

"IT WILL be decided at a later stage whether the permanent charter to be drafted by the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) will be put to a national referendum."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745522-no-decision-yet-on-referendum-to-endorse-thai-constitution/

Yes and the quote just after happening to slip in that if they want a referendum it will just delay elections............. I would of thought thinking about a referendum would of taken precedence over issues of granting themselves amnesty.

[Ricardo]

...

Also no mention of a referendum (Yawn)

"IT WILL be decided at a later stage whether the permanent charter to be drafted by the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) will be put to a national referendum."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745522-no-decision-yet-on-referendum-to-endorse-thai-constitution/

A popular referendum, to validate any new constitution, would IMO definitely be a good democratic thing to do.

Following the good example, set by the last junta-appointed government, in 2007.

It takes some of the power out of the politicians' hands, and puts it back with the people, where it should be !

[spidermike007]

I suspect PTP is boycotting the reform council as they have nothing useful to add as they would think nothing needs to be reformed.,

ie. They just want to return to their good old days of ignoring the law and grand larceny of Thailand's Treasury

True that. That was never a party that was the least bit concerned about their people, nor their country. The entire Shin family was probably the least patriotic family in Thai history. And he claimed to be there for the people. Well, we know what his motivation was. It was the responsibility of Thailand to go after him with vigor, once he fled. They should never have allowed him to board that plane to leave. He has been nothing but a boil on the face of this nation ever since he was a police captain. A tumorous growth. A waste of oxygen. Little sister did a good job of following in his useless footsteps. What a family. What a legacy. What disrespect they have shown toward their nation. What a lack of courage on his part, to refuse to come back and face charges. What a weasel.

[rubl]

...

Also no mention of a referendum (Yawn)

"IT WILL be decided at a later stage whether the permanent charter to be drafted by the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) will be put to a national referendum."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745522-no-decision-yet-on-referendum-to-endorse-thai-constitution/

Yes and the quote just after happening to slip in that if they want a referendum it will just delay elections............. I would of thought thinking about a referendum would of taken precedence over issues of granting themselves amnesty.

Well, your 'slip in' and 'squeezed in' suggests you think the NCPO is just as good as the Pheu Thai party which did just that with their blanket amnesty bill. Maybe Pheu Thai politicians think the NCPO has no need of their advise, but more or less graduated to Pheu Thai standards already ?

Anyway without cooperation of largest political party the NCPO will just have to get by with help of normal Thai people. In itself I would even call that the greatest contribution the (Thaksin thinks) Pheu Thai party could make. Maybe now the elections can even be moved forward? Probably not, the plan might be to have a new parliament and government with the start of the new Budget year 2015/2016.

[wwest5829]

even if their members are appointed to join the reform council, they will only manage to constitute a minority.

No surprises here,

1. if we don't have the majority we will not participate. (indicating a perfect understanding of democracy)

2. they know they will not be appointed, so rather say now we don't want anyway.

Any lessond learned? NO

Kind of like the Democrats boycotting elections. But I do agree, the changes needed on both sides will be a long time coming no matter that we are all supposed to be happy and play nice. The junta is addressing some issues and I hope for the best but have doubts that this will result in anything but a return to top down management.

[Emster23]

Last time they went to government meeting to iron out differences, they got arrested. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[northernjohn]

"Pheu Thai leaders have concluded that even if their members are appointed to join the reform council, they will only manage to constitute a minority."

I think some TV readers rush to misunderstand the point being made by PTP, maybe out of political bias to say the least.

The issue is who will make the DECISIONS in the reform council for what reforms will be adopted? If the appointed majority of the members are directly (ie., under military chain of command) or indirectly controlled (ie., through military retirement, intimidation, threat, political association) by the Junta leaders who will have, according to Nations, absolute power over the National Assembly/Interim Charter/the Constitution, members of the minority individually and as a whole will have no say in what reforms are adopted. With regard to the PTP, Gen. Prayuth has taken actions to eradicate the PTP's political ideology from having any influence in the nation's future.

So other than potentially being used by the Junta as political window dressing and implied consent through participation to whatever reforms the Council adopts, there is no point with PTP's participation in the Council. In fact under martial law its leaders could be charged under numerous Junta directives and tried by the military court depending on their conduct in the Council.

Well you hit it right on the head here almost

there is no point with PTP's participation in the Council

There are some PTP members I am sure who have an IQ higher than a 15 Watt light bulb who would be able to offer valuable suggestions with out calling Thaksin for the OK. You are assuming that the junta is as corrupt and uncaring of the people as the PTP in their refusal to listen to the people.

Wrong

They are more interested in the people of Thailand having a better life. I am not a fool who believes every one is on the up and up. I do admit there will be some looking out for their own interests. But it will not be every member no where near the number of PTP from the top in Dubai down to the bottom who just looked out for their interests. If Thailand gained some thing from it that was OK with them as long as they had their offshore account's full.

Edit

"Pheu Thai leaders have concluded that even if their members are appointed to join the reform council, they will only manage to constitute a minority."

In other words if they can not control it they want nothing to do with it. Par for the PTP are way or the highway. I for one am glad they chose the highway.

Edited July 24, 2014 by northernjohn