Do these new visa regulations effect your interest in studying Thai?

[squarethecircle]

It's obvious we're here impermanently, subject to the whims of the latest visa regulations. Still I keep up 1 hour a day of Thai study (also studying Mandarin Chinese) as I love many people here. But I have a thought in the back of my head: this is a waste of time as I will always be subject to the whims of some elite a------ deciding whether I can stay here.

So is there really a point in studying Thai given that in every country where it is spoken (north of Malaysia, border areas of Myanmar, Laos, southern China, and maybe elsewhere) we are basically here on a temporary status?

[SlyAnimal]

That's what happens when you live in a foreign country, but so long as you know the rules/regulations, and adhere to them, then you're fine.

The problem at the moment, stems from the fact that the rules weren't being enforced. The rules/regulations themselves haven't really changed, just they're now going to be enforced.

For myself, I am pretty confident that I'll be allowed to stay within Thailand as long as I want (Provided I don't get in trouble with the law, and provided that there isn't a civil war or similar which might cause Thailand to expel all foreigners).

[DavidHouston]

I would like to understand how the Thai rules for foreign tourists and their visas compare with the European Union rules for Thais trying to enter the EU (or the Schengen Area) on a tourist visa. Can a Thai who is on a temporary tourist visa get his or her visa extended by exiting the EU to a neighboring non-EU country and reentering the EU?

[squarethecircle]

I would like to understand how the Thai rules for foreign tourists and their visas compare with the European Union rules for Thais trying to enter the EU (or the Schengen Area) on a tourist visa. Can a Thai who is on a temporary tourist visa get his or her visa extended by exiting the EU to a neighboring non-EU country and reentering the EU?

No but true reciprocal immigration policy is not possible with the asymmetries between a place like Thailand and a place like the EU. The latter is a center of science and learning and at the forefront of new knowledge (along with the US), so is stronger economically, politically, etc., they can say "no" to people entering as otherwise there would be a massive flood for all the world's developing countries, whereas it is more difficult for a country like Thailand to say "no" to westerners etc. entering, just basic economic fact. Likewise I read that China is trying to make its immigration policies reciprocal with the US but this is simply impossible as most Chinese want to go to the US whereas only a rather unique American would want to go to China.

OK with some recent reports about people successfully getting new tourist visas and re-entering, I'm more confident that the crackdown won't effect my ability to stay in Thailand, cheers.

[kriswillems]

Davidhouston,

Comparing European and Thai visas I think we can say:

1. It's much more difficult for a Thai to go to Europe on a tourist visa than it's for us to go to Thailand as a tourist

2. Thailand had until today European tourists that basically never left (visa runners). It was never possible for Thai people to stay long in Europe on a tourist visa.

3. It's much more hard to get a education visa for Europe (for a Thai) than it's for European to get an education visa to Thailand

4. Business visas to Europe are not so difficult to get for a Thai to get and the other way around. You just need support from a reputable company.

5.

It's very hard for a Thai to marry a European and get a visa to Europe. It usually comes down to how much money the European has (own home, fixed job).

It's very easy for a European to marry a Thai and get a visa to Thailand. But the right for the European to stay in Thailand does not depend on how much money the Thai has, it depends on how money the European has.

6. Thai immigrants married to a Europeans that live in Europe get very soon equal rights to Europeans. European immigrants married to a Thai have almost no rights in Thailand and it will be like this for the rest of their life (no health insurance under the state program, no right to buy land, no right to work without work permit, no right to vote).

7. There's no such thing as a retirement visa for Europe. Even if the Thai has billions, he can not retire in Europe.

8. It very hard for a European to get Thai nationality. It's rather easy for a Thai to get a European nationality.

9. Europe has a huge budget to financially support new immigrants (free language study, for instance), while Thailand often overcharges new immigrants.

I think there's a lot of unfairness on both sides, usually caused by socio-economic circumstances.

My personal opinion is that Europe should loosen up and make it much easier for highly educated Thai and other Asians to migrate to Europe.

On the other hand, Thailand should also loosen up and set aside its extreme nationalist feelings and give more right to real foreign immigrants (not visa runners).

We should also not forget that the harsh European visa policy is not because of the Asian coming to Europe. If you look in our jails you'll find very, very few Asians (although there are a lot of Asian in Europe). Most Asian in Europe are also self supportive. Asian people are the victim or harsh immigration laws that are a result of years of inflow of uneducated or even criminal foreigners from other nations.

[kriswillems]

To the thread starter.

You'll have to comply with the rules, if that in your case means you can't stay here or that you can't stay here long it's probably not useful to study Thai.

In that case you might want to choose another country or maybe your home country to live in.

I think anyone staying longer than 1 year should study Thai. It's a very good investment of your time (it will pay for its-self).

[squarethecircle]

To the thread starter.

You'll have to comply with the rules, if that in your case means you can't stay here or that you can't stay here long it's probably not useful to study Thai.

In that case you might want to choose another country or maybe your home country to live in.

I think anyone staying longer than 1 year should study Thai. It's a very good investment of your time (it will pay for its-self).

Yes this is what isn't clear as I am a serial tourist, been in-and-out of the country for the past few years, and not clear at all if I will be able to continue doing this. Some of the recent posts suggest that are applying common sense so I feel more optimistic now. I will continue to study Thai for one hour a day as it is useful in Thailand, Laos, as well as parts of Myanmar and southern China.

[DavidHouston]

Thank you very much, Kris, for that thoughtful and detailed comparison of European and Thai visa rules and practices. I think it is important to get some balance as a counterpoint to the one-sided complaints expressed by foreigners living in Thailand who are unwilling to consider what Thais have to cope with in trying to travel to or live in Europe -- other other Western country for that matter.

Reciprocity in visa laws has taken a giant step forward with the creation and operation of the Schengen Area and the reciprocity agreements entered into by a number of other countries. Once can only hope that the trend toward open travel will expand into the future.

Thanks again.

[kriswillems]

To the thread starter.

You'll have to comply with the rules, if that in your case means you can't stay here or that you can't stay here long it's probably not useful to study Thai.

In that case you might want to choose another country or maybe your home country to live in.

I think anyone staying longer than 1 year should study Thai. It's a very good investment of your time (it will pay for its-self).

Yes this is what isn't clear as I am a serial tourist, been in-and-out of the country for the past few years, and not clear at all if I will be able to continue doing this. Some of the recent posts suggest that are applying common sense so I feel more optimistic now. I will continue to study Thai for one hour a day as it is useful in Thailand, Laos, as well as parts of Myanmar and southern China.

The Tai languages they speak in Southern China, North Vietnam, Laos and Birma would be very hard to understand if you don't focus on studying them. When I play audio from these regions I can usually catch some words but I understand very little of the overall message. If you are a tourist to this regions and you already know central Thai, still knowledge will marginally useful.

[TechnikaIII]

To the thread starter.

You'll have to comply with the rules, if that in your case means you can't stay here or that you can't stay here long it's probably not useful to study Thai.

In that case you might want to choose another country or maybe your home country to live in.

I think anyone staying longer than 1 year should study Thai. It's a very good investment of your time (it will pay for its-self).

I agree. However, it will be a real nuisance to those with a genuine interest in studying the language and so applying for the ED visa for the right reasons, to have the classrooms clogged with delinquents who are there simply to circumvent resident visa regulations. It won't take long for the authorities to notice the increased number of ED visa applications, and will clamp down with more and more restrictions.

[Suradit69]

That's what happens when you live in a foreign country, but so long as you know the rules/regulations, and adhere to them, then you're fine.

The problem at the moment, stems from the fact that the rules weren't being enforced. The rules/regulations themselves haven't really changed, just they're now going to be enforced.

For myself, I am pretty confident that I'll be allowed to stay within Thailand as long as I want (Provided I don't get in trouble with the law, and provided that there isn't a civil war or similar which might cause Thailand to expel all foreigners).

Yes I seriously doubt that the majority of people who are being effected by the law (not whims) are not (genuinely) studying Thai because of their love for the country or the people.

I haven't heard of anyone who has been here for extended periods of time, and in compliance with the existing laws, being deported. Targeting people who have been living in Thailand using back to back tourist visas or serial visa exempt entries or on overstay for 20 years (as someone claimed in another thread) is hardly a case of the police being whimsical.

I would like to understand how the Thai rules for foreign tourists and their visas compare with the European Union rules for Thais trying to enter the EU (or the Schengen Area) on a tourist visa. Can a Thai who is on a temporary tourist visa get his or her visa extended by exiting the EU to a neighboring non-EU country and reentering the EU?

No but true reciprocal immigration policy is not possible with the asymmetries between a place like Thailand and a place like the EU. The latter is a center of science and learning and at the forefront of new knowledge (along with the US), so is stronger economically, politically, etc., they can say "no" to people entering as otherwise there would be a massive flood for all the world's developing countries, whereas it is more difficult for a country like Thailand to say "no" to westerners etc. entering, just basic economic fact. Likewise I read that China is trying to make its immigration policies reciprocal with the US but this is simply impossible as most Chinese want to go to the US whereas only a rather unique American would want to go to China.

OK with some recent reports about people successfully getting new tourist visas and re-entering, I'm more confident that the crackdown won't effect my ability to stay in Thailand, cheers.

"...whereas it is more difficult for a country like Thailand to say "no" to westerners etc. [sic] entering ..."

If they are not entering or remaining here in compliance with the law, they are being told "no.," without any difficulty, or any more difficulty than America, UK or Australia has been managing. Thailand is not meant to be a refugee camp for financially strapped or unemployable farang, just because they are from the exalted tribe of westerners, et al.

[squarethecircle]

"If they are not entering or remaining here in compliance with the law, they are being told "no.," without any difficulty, or any more difficulty than America, UK or Australia has been managing. Thailand is not meant to be a refugee camp for financially strapped or unemployable farang, just because they are from the exalted tribe of westerners, et al."

Not meant to be but it kind of is. Not to diss the country but the bar is definitely low for the quality of f-rangs here if you haven't noticed (cue f-rang bashing). I started a topic on this very subject the other day and it was quickly closed down, but it does have a low bar set, whereas say in the opposite direction, locals here coming to my own country, there is a high bar set (well maybe not for Dubai ). I've learned as matter of safety to be careful about other f-rangs and be cautious in dealing with them, and have been burnt on more than one occasion. Maybe I should start another one about where to meet the quality f-rangs here.

Sounds like my question has been answered though, both in this post and in other reports, people here for legitimate reasons (tourist are otherwise) don't seem to be the target of the crackdown so my worries have been assuaged, cheers.

[Greg Nixon]

learning is always good even if it does not seem to make sense at the time. perhaps you will use it in the future. Perhaps you will meet a person who only speaks Thai. perhaps you can help someone. I am retired in Thailand so for me it makes perfect sense. So far i do not pay. All my friends and family help me.

I am becoming comfortable with the language and culture.

[belg]

you could invest time in learning thai, and when they finally kick us all of out of here, you/we can always pretend to become a thai language teacher in neighbouring or home countries

lol