Jingthing Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If Israel hadn't stolen Palestinian lands, evicted the Palestinians living there and built illegal settlements on them; if Israel and Egypt hadn't blockaded Gaza so that even medical supplies couldn't get in; would Hamas have had much support from the people of Gaza? I doubt it. Lifting the blockade may carry risks for Israel, but it may also be a start down the long road to peace. It would certainly ease the suffering of the people of Gaza. UN: Gaza humanitarian situation 'dire' May carry risks for Israel? That's the understatement of the century, mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puipuitom Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ceasefire, so they can re-arm, re-group, re-built all tunnel systems ? Never HAMAS stick to their agreements, under the moslim slogan: taqqiya = all breaking of vows is allowed as long as it is in the advantage of the muslimhood. Using UN ambulances for transport of HAMAS fithers: no problem, see Why everybody forgets the Israels's started the blockade because of HAMAS terrorist attacks on Israel civilians ? There can be peace in 5 minutes: - stop hate indoctrination from babyhood - stop attacks - recognise an Israel in safe and recognised borders. Which.. that is the outcome of negociations 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliot Rosewater Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 A ceasefire, so that Hamas - the terrorist group - can rearm and they are tying it to the preventive military blockade that prevents them from doing so easily. Yeah, that's going to fly. You are wrong. They are saying there will be no ceasefire until the Zionists lift their illegal blockade of Gaza. Utter tripe; regardless....looks like they are in a reeeaaal good position to demand anything..... Anybody who supports these nutcases has serious issues... Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 They may as well say they don't want a cease fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Lifting the blockade may carry risks for Israel, but it may also be a start down the long road to peace. Lifting the protective blockade on the terrorist organization Hamas - that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel - would be nothing short of insane. It ain't going to a happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 To another propagandist who says the Palestinians lost a war years ago - they didn't, they were just pawns (as now) in wars between Israel, Egypt, Jordan & Syria. Save that tripe for people who don't know history. In the first phase of the war, starting on November 29, 1947, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. Yes, they were pawns and are still pawns till this day. However, they are willing pawns that are too foolish to learn from their many mistakes and realize that they keep fighting a war that they can never win.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Lifting the blockade may carry risks for Israel, but it may also be a start down the long road to peace. Lifting the protective blockade on the terrorist organization Hamas - that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel - would be nothing short of insane. It ain't going to a happen. It certainly wont happen until someone in the Israeli government has the guts to stand up and make it happen. As long as both sides refuse to talk to each other, there will be no peace. This may be only a slim chance for peace; but better than no chance at all. Do you not want peace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Do you not want peace? Yes, but not at any price. Getting rid of that protective blockade would be just plain stupid that that is not the Israeli side's MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If Israel hadn't stolen Palestinian lands, evicted the Palestinians living there More tripe. Israel did not "steal" anything. They were granted their land by the UN to solve a conflict started by the Arabs. If the Palestinian Arabs had not started attacking and murdering them, there would have been no need for this solution for a war that they caused themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ulysses The historical narrative is not quite as simple as you suggest , after the British left it became a land grab for both sides both in a political and military sense. The Israelis were hardly angels , bear in mind most of their army and leadership were also 'terrorists '. However it is a nonsense to describe Israel as a Zionist occupier of ' Palestinian land ' the term is a misnomer and purely emotive. Israel grabbed the West Bank from Jordan in 1967 , who had grabbed it from the Brits in 1948, who had grabbed it from the Turks after WW1, who had held it as part of the Ottoman Empire fo hundreds of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not talking about after the British left. I'm talking about in the early 1900s when the Arabs were regularly attacking the Jews and started the whole thing. By the time the British left, it was already turning into a full out war and, of course the Jews were fighting back. Edited July 24, 2014 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The early zionist Kibbutzim encountered hostility for sure but its a huge stretch to say that it 'started the whole thing ' Remember that in the immediate vicinity ( Levant / Iraq ) there were over a million Jews who had lived in peace for hundreds of years . At the same time Anti Semitism was rife in Europe , especialy Russia and Poland. No the blame for todays troubles is more accurately attributed to Lord Balfour and the British government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Lord Balfour and the British government are not the ones who started attacking and murdering Jews. They did not participate in the 1929 Hebron Massacre and the violence, mayhem and aggression before it. That was the Arabs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up-country_sinclair Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) The anti-Arab posts on these threads are as deplorable as they are predictable. Edited July 24, 2014 by up-country_sinclair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ulysses But the Arabs had absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish programes in Eastern Europe which drove Zionism in the first place ! You and your ilk are a perfect example of why peace will be so difficult to achieve , always playing the blame game and seeing the world as black and white , good and evil , no pragmatism , no compromise . The majority of Israelis and Palestinians want nothing more than peace , a minority on BOTH sides prevent it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 But the Arabs had absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish programes in Eastern Europe which drove Zionism in the first place ! Europe is Europe. They attacked and murdered the Jews in the Palestine area and were defeated when the Jews were forced into fighting back. THAT is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The anti-Arab posts on these threads are as deplorable as they are predictable. So are the hateful anti-Israeli posts and there are a lot more of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 And we have a new generation of biggots on the way , indoctrinated in the schools of Gaza and Tel Aviv , sad is it not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up-country_sinclair Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The anti-Arab posts on these threads are as deplorable as they are predictable. So are the hateful anti-Israeli posts and there are a lot more of them. As much as you might want to conflate the two, being anti-Israel and anti-Israeli are not the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Three menthe ,and again, last year, Israel has intercepted a ship fully laden with armaments, munitions and rockets heading to Gaza from the good people of N. Korea, who's to say that lifting the blockade, the next ship that arrives to Gaza will contain small dirty nuclear devise or some kind of chemical weapon like Syria has and Hamas, who sworn to destroy Israel and the Jews will have that in their hand now? Hamas has to lay down it's arms and rockets pick up a shovel and instated of digging hundreds of km of tunnels to attack Israel, build your people a home, an country where you can live in peace and prosperity like all the other countries in the world, Thank you Ezzra, you are completely right. Edited July 24, 2014 by khaowong1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Those who lay down with dogs will get up with fleas. Palestine needs to get rid of Hamas in order to have any chance of negotiation..... and that is not going to happen. I am not pro Israel but I have little time for the pathetic whinging Palestinians who allowed Hamas to put them in the position there are in today. There can be little doubt that ideological groups like Hamas and it's ilk have to be eradicated, totally. I agree that Hamas needs to be voted out. But to put things in perspective; Hamas won 44.45% of the votes in the 2006 election. They have a lot of support, but there are MANY Palestinians who don't support them. We can't clump them all together. Remember it was Bin Laden who used the reasoning that since US citizens voted in the US Govt, who they accused of committing various crimes against Islam, the citizens were no longer "innocent" - hence 9/11. There has already been several statements by extremists on the Israeli side that follow this line of thinking. Demonizing the other side is something evident with both Israelis and Palestinians. For obvious reasons, it is more prevalent on the Palestinian side, but that is to be expected. The sad thing is that, much in the same vein as TVF topics go, this demonizing get to be mainstream sort of talk, which sets the grounds for further future discussions. This makes negotiations much harder - if those on the other side (whichever) are monsters, who would want to make peace with them? Who would want to be seen as making peace with them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 We can do this all day. There are lots of opinions, but it really does not matter, because no one can do anything to stop Israel from blocking weapons to Hamas. Exactly - when it comes down to it, the Zionists will do whatever they want, because they have might and power. Ipso facto, the Palestinians need to develop or acquire effective weapons to be able to get justice. Wonder how Gandhi did not come to the same conclusion.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 To answer a question about Israel stealing land other than the Palestinians' - the Golan Heights were stolen from Syria. To another propagandist who says the Palestinians lost a war years ago - they didn't, they were just pawns (as now) in wars between Israel, Egypt, Jordan & Syria. Yes, the Palestinians were 'wrong' to elect Hamas the last time they were allowed to hold an election. So it's ok to continue to collectively punish them whenever their frustrations spill over at being held in 'Bantustans', arrested without trial and the 'lucky' ones tried in military courts. It is totally contemptible to blame the victims for hundreds of deaths. Similar to blaming rape victims for dressing too sexily. "Stolen" from Syria how? There was a war. So the Palestinians did not lose a war....it just sort of happened. If I was a Palestinian I'd be pissed with outsiders keeping on this demeaning patronizing attitude tagging Palestinians as "pawns" (or tools, or marionettes, or whatever). There comes a time when a nation needs to own up to some of its mistakes and past and deal with them. This very same thing is continuously required of Israel, and evidently there are voices among Israelis who do just that. On the other hand the Palestinians are somehow often portrayed as helpless, powerless, and easily manipulated by all and sundry. The Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, where Hamas holds sway were not really subject to much arrests without trial and Israeli military courts - Israel withdrew unilaterally from the Gaza Strip. You are mixing the Gaza Strip and the West Bank on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Lifting the blockade may carry risks for Israel, but it may also be a start down the long road to peace. Lifting the protective blockade on the terrorist organization Hamas - that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel - would be nothing short of insane. It ain't going to a happen. It certainly wont happen until someone in the Israeli government has the guts to stand up and make it happen. As long as both sides refuse to talk to each other, there will be no peace. This may be only a slim chance for peace; but better than no chance at all. Do you not want peace? Israel lifts the blockade. Where is the part about what Hamas concedes in return? There are simply no guarantees and to date, no acceptable overseeing mechanism. The hurdles mounted in regards to this issue are hardly all from the Israeli side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Nothing like trying to demand terms for a cease fire when you're getting your arse kicked... Killing hundreds and hundreds of innocent children and woman ain't exactly what I'd describe as 'getting your arse kicked' I think 'getting mass murdered' is a more appropriate description. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiki12 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/23/fps_situation_report_kerry_lands_in_israel_to_try_to_broker_a_cease_fire_pentago Is this ok for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford8 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I tried to start a new topic, but cannot, so I will post this here. It appears that there is no breakdown of the Gaza casualties, so for those who might like to see them (drawn up by Aljazeera, who never refer to them in their coverage). ! http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/21/al-jazeera-publishes-updated-list-of-gaza-dead-analysis-confirms-israel-tageting-combatants/ It is in english plus a graph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Nothing like trying to demand terms for a cease fire when you're getting your arse kicked... Killing hundreds and hundreds of innocent children and woman ain't exactly what I'd describe as 'getting your arse kicked' I think 'getting mass murdered' is a more appropriate description. The people in the Gaza Strip are not the ones handling the negotiations on the their side, though. The Hamas, as an organization does take a beating as well, and much of the conditions it insists upon got to do with his chances of rehabilitating its political position, control of the Gaza Strip and military might after the current hostilities end. If this was just about saving lives there would have been no issues with accepting the ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Israel lifts the blockade. Where is the part about what Hamas concedes in return? There are simply no guarantees and to date, no acceptable overseeing mechanism. The hurdles mounted in regards to this issue are hardly all from the Israeli side. Indeed and the mainstream media pretty much ignores it.A Letter of Thanks from Hamas to the Media Dear Members of the Mainstream Media, You’ve been awesome! Everyone knows that we start unwinnable wars with Israel because the real victory happens when you predictably side with us each time. And you’ve been so supportive of our strategy that we really want to acknowledge your helpfulness. In particular, we thank you for: - Focusing so much more on our suffering than anyone else’s. Nigerians must die in far greater numbers before you take notice, so we’re glad that you value our lives so much more. - Minimizing your coverage, if any, of our attacks that led up to Israel’s military response and generally providing so little context that outsiders think that Israelis kill Palestinians just for fun. http://www.mediaite.com/online/a-letter-of-thanks-from-hamas-to-the-media/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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