More than 50 Israeli reservists refuse to fight

[arjunadawn]

 

This Gaza conflict is not about increasing the land of Israel. Israel already gave up Gaza. Hamas of Gaza clearly wants the Jews to give up ALL of Israel. That is not something that can be negotiated. It is the stuff of wars.

When people have hate, subtle or manifest, it can hardly be concealed by words. No matter the intellectual gymnastics, disdain/contempt do leak through their thoughts. And so it is among these posts that apologists for Islamic terrorism hide behind the thinly veiled stalking horse... "for the children" as the paint Israel ugly. Invoking absurd moral equivalency examples that assign Israel some horrific statuses that are at best false analogies, they lurk about shouting "hitler," "land grab," etc. The examples, if considered are always the most absurd. Really! They don't shout "Pol Pot." They don't scream "Idi Amin." What is their mind revealing when it chooses to equate Israel with Hitler? Why Hitler? Why land grab? Why expansion claims?

Because it hurts. Because it exaggerates Israeli action now, and cleanses the past, and it minimizes Hitler's actions then. Because modern Palestinian operatives, including Hamas, are sophisticated enough to grasp "gas-burner" concepts: repeat something often enough and it will be perceived as true, certainly recalled so. They only have to look to their stalwart leftist supporters in the West and see the utility of such associations, and repeated lies. That "Israel is no better than Hitler" will reveal the character of the speaker every time.

I forgot the adored Rabi's name; Jewish names could never seat in my head. He was indeed Zionist and he did have followers and did propose an expanded state that stretched to the "Mouth of two rivers;" Tigris and Euphrates. I even saw (not sure it was real) one time a Shekel that confused me because it had the State of Israel so large it stretched to Iran. True? False? Who knows, but even I was surprised, and dismayed. But I don't know. I do know that there are some really smart Jew haters out there from the Protocols of The Elders of Zion to various other insinuations that continue to exist as fact today. But Jews have not expanded their land. When Jews were attacked-repeatedly- they claimed buffers. We would have done the same thing if other kids destroyed our fort when we were children. Israel claimed the areas from which strategic threats clearly emerged not as a praeda preda but as a safety margin. There has simply been no single thing to evidence expansion equivalency- another Hitler equation.

I am not a Jew and I don't mind you hate. But please don't be so ignorant as to mask your hate as intellect and ask we accept it.

NOTE: "You," as used here is not Jingthing. I only concurred with your post.
 

 
Have you ever engaged in a debate with someone over the Israel/Palestine conflict and not walked away thinking "wow...some definite hate there"?

Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.

[hawker9000]

 

 

 

This Gaza conflict is not about increasing the land of Israel. Israel already gave up Gaza. Hamas of Gaza clearly wants the Jews to give up ALL of Israel. That is not something that can be negotiated. It is the stuff of wars.

When people have hate, subtle or manifest, it can hardly be concealed by words. No matter the intellectual gymnastics, disdain/contempt do leak through their thoughts. And so it is among these posts that apologists for Islamic terrorism hide behind the thinly veiled stalking horse... "for the children" as the paint Israel ugly. Invoking absurd moral equivalency examples that assign Israel some horrific statuses that are at best false analogies, they lurk about shouting "hitler," "land grab," etc. The examples, if considered are always the most absurd. Really! They don't shout "Pol Pot." They don't scream "Idi Amin." What is their mind revealing when it chooses to equate Israel with Hitler? Why Hitler? Why land grab? Why expansion claims?

Because it hurts. Because it exaggerates Israeli action now, and cleanses the past, and it minimizes Hitler's actions then. Because modern Palestinian operatives, including Hamas, are sophisticated enough to grasp "gas-burner" concepts: repeat something often enough and it will be perceived as true, certainly recalled so. They only have to look to their stalwart leftist supporters in the West and see the utility of such associations, and repeated lies. That "Israel is no better than Hitler" will reveal the character of the speaker every time.

I forgot the adored Rabi's name; Jewish names could never seat in my head. He was indeed Zionist and he did have followers and did propose an expanded state that stretched to the "Mouth of two rivers;" Tigris and Euphrates. I even saw (not sure it was real) one time a Shekel that confused me because it had the State of Israel so large it stretched to Iran. True? False? Who knows, but even I was surprised, and dismayed. But I don't know. I do know that there are some really smart Jew haters out there from the Protocols of The Elders of Zion to various other insinuations that continue to exist as fact today. But Jews have not expanded their land. When Jews were attacked-repeatedly- they claimed buffers. We would have done the same thing if other kids destroyed our fort when we were children. Israel claimed the areas from which strategic threats clearly emerged not as a praeda preda but as a safety margin. There has simply been no single thing to evidence expansion equivalency- another Hitler equation.

I am not a Jew and I don't mind you hate. But please don't be so ignorant as to mask your hate as intellect and ask we accept it.

NOTE: "You," as used here is not Jingthing. I only concurred with your post.
 

 
Have you ever engaged in a debate with someone over the Israel/Palestine conflict and not walked away thinking "wow...some definite hate there"?

Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.

 

 

You might be right about that - I'm in no position to argue.  But I've long suspected that some portion - certainly not saying all - of the motivation among these terrorists is nothing more than rank opportunism combined with pure thuggery and predisposition to violence & anarchy.   They do because they can and most of the world insanely excuses & tolerates them at best or eggs them on at worst.   It's in THAT sense that the west actually bears some responsibility for what's happening.

[kblaze]

 

Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.

 

 

Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

[arjunadawn]

 Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.
 

 
Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

Don't know about all "enemies." I've not lived among all peoples, just the places cited above, for the most part. Yep! Every single place above the people had no real concept at all of the issues in the levant but hated Israel because they were required to do so. Insofar as I was very intimate with indigenous peoples in my travels and lived and worked among them certain issues were always explored by me- this was one.

Orienting on the OP, I'm not surprised that some Israeli reservists would refuse service. They should be court marshaled. With a world of threats to Israel you can't have people opting in and out of service. The degradation of the western world by the new left is predicated on self loathing, even in Israel. Yet their refusal should not be considered conscientious before cowardice.

[Thorgal]

No propaganda from Hamas though.
 

What's wrong with propaganda in uniforms ?

http://jezebel.com/5914543/were-seriously-debating-whether-its-okay-for-military-moms-to-breastfeed-while-in-uniform


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[dr_lucas]

 

 

Then why not simply (but formally & publicly) disavow it?  'Would be so easy to do.  ...Were there actually any truth to what you're saying, that is.  

 

 

They should.

 

But Face + Stupidity prevents them.

 

 

You forgot "+deep rooted-hatred + religious fanaticism"

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.
 

 
Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

Don't know about all "enemies." I've not lived among all peoples, just the places cited above, for the most part. Yep! Every single place above the people had no real concept at all of the issues in the levant but hated Israel because they were required to do so. Insofar as I was very intimate with indigenous peoples in my travels and lived and worked among them certain issues were always explored by me- this was one.

Orienting on the OP, I'm not surprised that some Israeli reservists would refuse service. They should be court marshaled. With a world of threats to Israel you can't have people opting in and out of service. The degradation of the western world by the new left is predicated on self loathing, even in Israel. Yet their refusal should not be considered conscientious before cowardice.

 

 

Not just "required", but called "traitors" and executed, most of the time without trial, if not (as happens to some Gazans who are a bit more liberal than Hamas, so called "Collaborators with Israel", see attached pics).

 

Talking about self-loathing, I have even seen Americans blame the USA for 9/11 terror attacks.

 

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:276621]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:276620]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:276619]

Edited July 31, 2014 by dr_lucas

[kblaze]

Which there is not. It is nothing but dishonest Hamas propaganda.    

 

They are quotes from British military and Academics. 

 

Hardly propaganda. 

 

Who was the one posting images from the IDF Spokeperson's twitter? Oh thats right you.

[kblaze]

 

 

 Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.
 

 
Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

Don't know about all "enemies." I've not lived among all peoples, just the places cited above, for the most part. Yep! Every single place above the people had no real concept at all of the issues in the levant but hated Israel because they were required to do so. Insofar as I was very intimate with indigenous peoples in my travels and lived and worked among them certain issues were always explored by me- this was one.

Orienting on the OP, I'm not surprised that some Israeli reservists would refuse service. They should be court marshaled. With a world of threats to Israel you can't have people opting in and out of service. The degradation of the western world by the new left is predicated on self loathing, even in Israel. Yet their refusal should not be considered conscientious before cowardice.

 

 

So you take back what you said?

You said your views have been formed by discussions with Israel's enemies

You said "it is simply fact" that religion fuels ALL motivations.

 

I'm being nit-picky because what you are doing is removing any place for people in the MIDDLE. Those who criticize Hamas AND Israel. 

 

Posters here have been quick to display their ignorance by lumping all critics of Israel into the "Jew hater" "anti semite" "bigot" "terrorist sympathizer" camp.

 

You seem well traveled and intelligent. Are you going to do the same?

[arjunadawn]

 

 

 Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.
 

 
Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

Don't know about all "enemies." I've not lived among all peoples, just the places cited above, for the most part. Yep! Every single place above the people had no real concept at all of the issues in the levant but hated Israel because they were required to do so. Insofar as I was very intimate with indigenous peoples in my travels and lived and worked among them certain issues were always explored by me- this was one.

Orienting on the OP, I'm not surprised that some Israeli reservists would refuse service. They should be court marshaled. With a world of threats to Israel you can't have people opting in and out of service. The degradation of the western world by the new left is predicated on self loathing, even in Israel. Yet their refusal should not be considered conscientious before cowardice.
 

 
Not just "required", but judged as traitors and executed, most of the time without trial, if not (as happens to some Gazans who are a bit more liberal than Hamas, so called "Collaborators with Israel", see attached pics).
 
Talking about self-loathing, I have even seen Americans blame the USA for 9/11 terror attacks.
 

Yes, doc, thanks. I didn't want to "lift and shift" to American self loathing, but it's the same phenomena of this age manifested through differing filters. Europe too suffers this same fate, and yes it's relevant to the OP. This modern angst is the cauldron in which very specific political/economic agendas flourish. I hardly see Islamic world agitation and unrestricted migration accidental; but this is another thread, perhaps. So, even Israelis, removed from the palpable horror and threat that is massed against them by iPads, game boys, time, real men, small geography, and forward thinking national security policies, bemoan simple self defense and ally with those sworn to their destruction.

[kblaze]

 

Not just "required", but called "traitors" and executed, most of the time without trial, if not (as happens to some Gazans who are a bit more liberal than Hamas, so called "Collaborators with Israel", see attached pics).

 

Talking about self-loathing, I have even seen Americans blame the USA for 9/11 terror attacks.

 

 

 

So again, why aren't we trying to "free" these people? 

 

If they are at risk of death if they don't support these radicals, aren't they a victim? 

 

North Korea has killed more South Koreans in the past 5 years than Hamas has killed Israelis with rockets. 

 

If South Korea were to say "you know what, NK, we've had it with your attacks and rocket launches, we are bombing you." People would say "Ok, they have a right to defend themselves". And I agree.

 

However if SK ended up with a 80% North Korean civilian casualty rate, don't you think people would be justified in saying WTF?

[arjunadawn]

 

 

 Yes. I've spent the better part of last 14 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, UAE, Yemen, Lebanon, North Africa, Pakistan, Indo, other. My views have been formed from the eyes of Israel's enemies, not Israeli supporters. Of course I didn't debate, rather I gently elicited. You don't debate with these people because when their reason fails, that which is most important prevails, the holy book and the life of their prophet. It is simply fact that this source fuels all motivations.
 

 
Just so I'm clear; all the people who are "enemies" of Israel are being fueled by religiosity? 

Don't know about all "enemies." I've not lived among all peoples, just the places cited above, for the most part. Yep! Every single place above the people had no real concept at all of the issues in the levant but hated Israel because they were required to do so. Insofar as I was very intimate with indigenous peoples in my travels and lived and worked among them certain issues were always explored by me- this was one.

Orienting on the OP, I'm not surprised that some Israeli reservists would refuse service. They should be court marshaled. With a world of threats to Israel you can't have people opting in and out of service. The degradation of the western world by the new left is predicated on self loathing, even in Israel. Yet their refusal should not be considered conscientious before cowardice.
 

 
So you take back what you said?
You said your views have been formed by discussions with Israel's enemies
You said "it is simply fact" that religion fuels ALL motivations.
 
I'm being nit-picky because what you are doing is removing any place for people in the MIDDLE. Those who criticize Hamas AND Israel. 
 
Posters here have been quick to display their ignorance by lumping all critics of Israel into the "Jew hater" "anti semite" "bigot" "terrorist sympathizer" camp.
 
You seem well traveled and intelligent. Are you going to do the same?

I'm using iPad and hv trouble scrolling to review while posting to explain. Anyone who reads my posts know I'd concede I'm a dumbass if I see it. I don't see it. My sentence about enemies was reasonably predicated on the proceeding sentences about traveled areas that all have one thing in common- a shared faith. I suspect there's other players that might despise Israel- for non religious reasons; I'm referring to the places in my experience.

It would be easy, if taken just from this one forum, to describe me as someone who sees antisemites everywhere. But this isn't true. I remain deeply divided. Among these many places I've visited, where nearly everyone seemed to hate Jews, there was a disconnect. They were all kind and hospitable to me. I know many Palestinians, Jordanian Palestinians, and others in Lebanon. I know no one in Israel! Curious, huh?

Only when I look toward the past do I see where he or they went wrong. When I look to the now I see a people trying to entice a regional war, run the clock out on public opinion, and move across the chess board through UN and international institution building legitimacy. They believe they are at war. Fair enough. But to assert they want peace is a lie. A delusion. There will never be peace as long as Israel exists! Period! Were all Palestinians to agree to peace tomorrow jihad would be launched against them by their own the next day.
It's as untrue they want peace as it is untrue there was a Palestinian state before 1948. It's just not true.

I recall an inspector asked a contractor "what is this?" at an airport in UAE (it was an emergency bandage/dressing called an...) "Israeli dressing," he replied. He was immediately rounded up, put in the next plane flying, which wasn't even going toward the west, and ejected from the state. They did forward his luggage. This is one of many examples. Peace in the Levant will never happen as long as Jews live. If Israel were destroyed tomorrow the new diaspora would be hunted and killed throughout all those countries I've mentioned.

[kblaze]

 

I'm using iPad and hv trouble scrolling to review while posting to explain. Anyone who reads my posts know I'd concede I'm a dumbass if I see it. I don't see it. My sentence about enemies was reasonably predicated on the proceeding sentences about traveled areas that all have one thing in common- a shared faith. I suspect there's other players that might despise Israel- for non religious reasons; I'm referring to the places in my experience.

It would be easy, if taken just from this one forum, to describe me as someone who sees antisemites everywhere. But this isn't true. I remain deeply divided. Among these many places I've visited, where nearly everyone seemed to hate Jews, there was a disconnect. They were all kind and hospitable to me. I know many Palestinians, Jordanian Palestinians, and others in Lebanon. I know no one in Israel! Curious, huh?

Only when I look toward the past do I see where he or they went wrong. When I look to the now I see a people trying to entice a regional war, run the clock out on public opinion, and move across the chess board through UN and international institution building legitimacy. They believe they are at war. Fair enough. But to assert they want peace is a lie. A delusion. There will never be peace as long as Israel exists! Period! Were all Palestinians to agree to peace tomorrow jihad would be launched against them by their own the next day.
It's as untrue they want peace as it is untrue there was a Palestinian state before 1948. It's just not true.

I recall an inspector asked a contractor "what is this?" at an airport in UAE (it was an emergency bandage/dressing called an...) "Israeli dressing," he replied. He was immediately rounded up, put in the next plane flying, which wasn't even going toward the west, and ejected from the state. They did forward his luggage. This is one of many examples. Peace in the Levant will never happen as long as Jews live. If Israel were destroyed tomorrow the new diaspora would be hunted and killed throughout all those countries I've mentioned.

 

 

From all your travels, do you believe one can be a critic of Israeli policy without being a Jew-hater or anti-semite? 

[Ulysses G.]

From all your travels, do you believe one can be a critic of Israeli policy without being a Jew-hater or anti-semite?

Sure, but a lot of them don't have any idea of what they are talking about and Jew-haters and anti-Semites usually dominate the criticism. However, most of them are clever enough to hide it in public. Edited July 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

"

Which there is not. It is nothing but dishonest Hamas propaganda.  

 
They are quotes from British military and Academics. 
 
Hardly propaganda.

 

 

"Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor"

 

Really? Is "Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal" British military or an academic?

 

Propaganda!

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Fellini]

 

From all your travels, do you believe one can be a critic of Israeli policy without being a Jew-hater or anti-semite?

Sure, but a lot of them don't have any idea of what they are talking about and Jew-haters and anti-Semites usually dominate the criticism. However, most of them are clever enough to hide it in public.

 

 

As far as I have seen, Anonymous and the IWW, along with the vast majority of the organizations that have expressed their solidarity with the Palestinians, are not anti-Semitic at all.

On the other hand, many fascists and neo-Nazis appear to be neutral. In some cases, they even see the Jews as a 'civilized' race of people who should exercise their dominion over the 'inferior' peoples of Gaza and the West Bank, who would otherwise run Israel's infrastructure to the ground.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Fellini

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like nothing but  wishful thinking on your part. Neo-Nazis have been marching in the pro-Palestinian protests along with numerous other anti-Semitic groups. There has been lots of reporting on it. 

 

 

The protests have triggered warnings that the spectre of anti-Semitism has returned to haunt Europe.

Protesters have attacked synagogues, smashed the windows of Jewish-owned business and torched others, in scenes disturbingly reminiscent of the 1938 Kristallnacht in France. The marchers have chanted “Jews to the gas chambers”, and Jewish people have been attacked on the streets of Berlin.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10992886/Anti-Semitism-on-the-march-Europe-braces-for-violence.html

 

 

Following a pro-Palestinian demonstration in Berlin at which participants chanted anti-Jewish slogans, the American Jewish Committee Berlin office filed a complaint with police.

According to a news statement, the marchers on Thursday chanted “Jew, Jew, cowardly pig, come on out and fight.”
Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/07/18/news-opinion/world/anti-semitic-pro-palestinian-rally-in-berlin-spurs-group-to-file-charges#ixzz3920KhuNh

 

 In France, a nation already facing an uptick in anti-Semitic violence before the Israeli strikes on Gaza, pro-Palestinian youths last week looted and set fire to Jewish businesses in a suburb of Paris.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-spills-into-europe-with-protests-anti-jewish-slogans/2014/07/30/36ca8d41-b5a4-4790-9b53-c94e75da4ba6_story.html

 

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

Not just "required", but called "traitors" and executed, most of the time without trial, if not (as happens to some Gazans who are a bit more liberal than Hamas, so called "Collaborators with Israel", see attached pics).

 

Talking about self-loathing, I have even seen Americans blame the USA for 9/11 terror attacks.

 

 

 

So again, why aren't we trying to "free" these people? 

 

If they are at risk of death if they don't support these radicals, aren't they a victim? 

 

North Korea has killed more South Koreans in the past 5 years than Hamas has killed Israelis with rockets. 

 

If South Korea were to say "you know what, NK, we've had it with your attacks and rocket launches, we are bombing you." People would say "Ok, they have a right to defend themselves". And I agree.

 

However if SK ended up with a 80% North Korean civilian casualty rate, don't you think people would be justified in saying <deleted>?

 

 

Who are the radicals? Hamas.

Who elected them? Almost 50% of the Palestinians in Gaza.

Most of the other Gazans support Fatah, a more moderate organization, led by Abbas, but not a liberal one by any standards.

How do you suggest to "free" the remaining?

Note that not supporting Hamas & Fatah does not mean they will be stupid to go and tell this in public.

Some do, but they don't live in Gaza:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2trFcUqTH8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4

 

As for the NK and SK analogy. If NK will use their people as human shields, as Hamas does, and hide their nukes, soldiers and bombs under civilian blocks etc., which I am pretty sure they will have no problem doing considering the value of their citizen's human-life there, I'd actually expect more like 99% civilian casualties and I won't blame SK for it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by dr_lucas

[hawker9000]

 

 

From all your travels, do you believe one can be a critic of Israeli policy without being a Jew-hater or anti-semite?

Sure, but a lot of them don't have any idea of what they are talking about and Jew-haters and anti-Semites usually dominate the criticism. However, most of them are clever enough to hide it in public.

 

 

As far as I have seen, Anonymous and the IWW, along with the vast majority of the organizations that have expressed their solidarity with the Palestinians in recent times, are not anti-Semitic at all.

On the other hand, many fascists and neo-Nazis appear to be neutral at present. In some cases, they even see the Jews as a 'civilized' race of people who should exercise their dominion over the 'inferior' peoples of Gaza and the West Bank, who would run Israel's infrastructure to the ground.

 

 

The only peoples I've heard expressing their intention to "exercise dominion" over any other peoples these days all pray five times a day to Allah... 

 

Is "running Israel's infrastructure into the ground" the new euphemism for destruction of Israel and elimination of the Jews?   Where do you come by this intimate knowledge of modern day fascists and neo-Nazis and what they see & know?

[kblaze]

 

 

 

"

Which there is not. It is nothing but dishonest Hamas propaganda.  

 
They are quotes from British military and Academics. 
 
Hardly propaganda.

 

 

"Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal indicated to Robert Pastor"

 

Really? Is "Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal" British military or an academic?

 

Propaganda!

 

 

Yes, the British military guy was reporting his conversation with the Hamas leader? Your point is?

[kblaze]

 

As for the NK and SK analogy. If NK will use their people as human shields, as Hamas does, and hide their nukes, soldiers and bombs under civilian blocks etc., which I am pretty sure they will have no problem doing considering the value of their citizen's human-life there, I'd actually expect more like 99% civilian casualties and I won't blame SK for it.

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

You say on one hand that Gazans are being forced to be human shields. Thus, be default they are innocent.

 

Then you imply that they aren't because they elected Hamas.

 

So which is it?

[Fellini]

 

When the mental haze finally clears, please tell us what the heck you're talking about...   Perhaps you should find other things to, emm, "track"...   Your other personality is The Riddler?  Norman Finkelstein is your role-model??

 

 

All I see is a picture of a guy holding a sign saying, "We Support Israel".  This has something to do with something? This has something remotely to do with what's going on in Gaza, what neo-Nazis see or know, and somebody getting paid to do something? And then old Norman & some other dude who's also under arrest exchanging smiles with a NYC policeman on their way into the precinct for booking...  You think anyone but his fellow nutjobs is impressed with this nutjob?   

 

Little wonder blaming Israelis for Hamas using human shields apparently makes some sense to you!

 

??

The EDL (English Defence League) is a far-right organization that is pro-Israel. Anders Behring Breivik was also pro-Israel. And I used to have an acquaintance on the far-right (by the name of Sean Payne, btw) who would post pro-Israel updates to his Facebook, mocking the whole human shield thing among other stuff - he's also very much a Nazi.

To say that all fascists are anti-Semitic is a little antiquated. As far as the Israeli-Arab conflict is concerned, a good number of them aren't because they see the Arabs as racially inferior savages. Like their idol, Adolf Hitler, they're backstabbers who couldn't care less about the Palestinians.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Fellini

[dr_lucas]

 

 

As for the NK and SK analogy. If NK will use their people as human shields, as Hamas does, and hide their nukes, soldiers and bombs under civilian blocks etc., which I am pretty sure they will have no problem doing considering the value of their citizen's human-life there, I'd actually expect more like 99% civilian casualties and I won't blame SK for it.

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

You say on one hand that Gazans are being forced to be human shields. Thus, be default they are innocent.

 

Then you imply that they aren't because they elected Hamas.

 

So which is it?

 

 

There are 1.8 million Gazans. I did say around 50% elected Hamas, leaving around 900,000 (!) people who either do not support them or oppose the armed resistance completely.

Many Gazans are urged, convinced or threatened to stay at home and ignore IDF warnings which consequently make them human shields.

I truly believe you will find this 11 minutes video very educational, it certainly did improved my knowledge and understanding & at the same time reminded me many thing long-forgotten.

It's about the past 100-years historical facts of the conflict:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY

[kblaze]

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

You say on one hand that Gazans are being forced to be human shields. Thus, be default they are innocent.

 

Then you imply that they aren't because they elected Hamas.

 

So which is it?

 

 

There are 1.8 million Gazans. I did say around 50% elected Hamas, leaving around 900,000 (!) people who either do not support them or oppose the armed resistance completely.

Many Gazans are urged, convinced or threatened to stay at home and ignore IDF warnings which consequently make them human shields.

I truly believe you will find this 11 minutes video very educational, it certainly did improved my knowledge and understanding & at the same time reminded me many thing long-forgotten.

It's about the past 100-years historical facts of the conflict:

 

 

 

I'm used to be sent in circles by those who see no wrong in Israeli policy, but this is the next level.

 

I ask you to clarify whether or not you think there are innocent Gazans...

 

and your response? Watch this 11 minute video about the past 100 years...

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

You say on one hand that Gazans are being forced to be human shields. Thus, be default they are innocent.

 

Then you imply that they aren't because they elected Hamas.

 

So which is it?

 

 

There are 1.8 million Gazans. I did say around 50% elected Hamas, leaving around 900,000 (!) people who either do not support them or oppose the armed resistance completely.

Many Gazans are urged, convinced or threatened to stay at home and ignore IDF warnings which consequently make them human shields.

I truly believe you will find this 11 minutes video very educational, it certainly did improved my knowledge and understanding & at the same time reminded me many thing long-forgotten.

It's about the past 100-years historical facts of the conflict:

 

 

 

I'm used to be sent in circles by those who see no wrong in Israeli policy, but this is the next level.

 

I ask you to clarify whether or not you think there are innocent Gazans...

 

and your response? Watch this 11 minute video about the past 100 years...

 

 

It's not very wise to see the world in only black and white. Good vs Evil. There are far more shades to consider.

I did answer your question in more detail than you actually requested and I have also given you additional source of historical information which I am assuming you don't know, in which case may help your understanding.

[Ulysses G.]

And when I asked you if you were being paid to spread this junk...

That would beg the question of how much Hamas is paying you. 

[Ulysses G.]

And I used to have an acquaintance on the far-right (by the name of Sean Payne, btw) who would post pro-Israel updates to his Facebook, mocking the whole human shield thing among other stuff - he's also very much a Nazi.

Yeah sure, your friend the "Nazi" supports Israel. Very convincing. Sure. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

As for the NK and SK analogy. If NK will use their people as human shields, as Hamas does, and hide their nukes, soldiers and bombs under civilian blocks etc., which I am pretty sure they will have no problem doing considering the value of their citizen's human-life there, I'd actually expect more like 99% civilian casualties and I won't blame SK for it.

 

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

You say on one hand that Gazans are being forced to be human shields. Thus, be default they are innocent.

 

Then you imply that they aren't because they elected Hamas.

 

So which is it?

 

 

Lots of Gazans are volunteering to be human shields. Others are agreeing to under pressure and they DID elect Hamas. Exactly what did they think would happen when they elected a terrorist group that refuses to recognize Israel and is committed to using violence to "drive the Jews into the sea?" 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dr_lucas]

 

And when I asked you if you were being paid to spread this junk...

That would beg the question of how much Hamas is paying you. 

 

 

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world, 23% of the world's population. Many who live in Muslim countries that call for the annihilation of Israel.

There are only 13.75 Million Jews in the world. A very tiny minority.

Do you think Hamas needs to pay anyone to do its propaganda when this is the ratio?

[Jingthing]

 

 

And when I asked you if you were being paid to spread this junk...

That would beg the question of how much Hamas is paying you. 

 

 

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world, 23% of the world's population. Many who live in Muslim countries that call for the annihilation of Israel.

There are only 13.75 Million Jews in the world. A very tiny minority.

Do you think Hamas needs to pay anyone to do its propaganda when this is the ratio?

 

The only special money I've made from being a Jew was this stuff I used to get from Grandpa at Chanukah! OK, and the dollar for finding the matzoh. 

 

[attachment=277415:Chanukah-Gelt.jpg]

 

 

(It's candy.)