Insurgency in the deep South is not a religious conflict

[impulse]

 

 

Terrorism by any other mean or cause is still a terrorism, no matter what the reason are or what the

ultimate goal is, they say that this is not about religion, but strangely enough, all the terrorist in the 

south are Muslim and most if not all, are non Muslims

 

 

And the terrorists in Ireland have historically been Catholics, as have the terrorists in S. America.  

 

And the terrorists in 1940's Palestine were Jews.

 

And the terrorists picking on the Muslims in Myanmar are Buddhists.

 

Religion isn't why the terrorism happens.  It's just one of the many criteria for how they pick which side they're on.  Like skin color, family name, ancestral home, nationality- and dozens of others.

 

Pick any population in the world, take away so much that they have very little to lose (and they feel as if they have nothing to lose), and terrorism will be the result- regardless of what religion they are.

 

So the Black and Tans were Catholics? Was Oliver Cromwells lot Catholics? Are you just referring to the Republic of Ireland? What about the terrorists in Northern Ireland? Are they Catholic?

No, I'm not a Catholic.

 

They certainly weren't Muslims.  And that's the point I was responding to

 

I suspect both sides had their own terrorists- but that history lesson is another thread for another day...

Edited July 28, 2014 by impulse

[Travelman868]

Terrorism by any other mean or cause is still a terrorism, no matter what the reason are or what the

ultimate goal is, they say that this is not about religion, but strangely enough, all the terrorist in the 

south are Muslim and most if not all, are non Muslims,

 

And before the protesting Muslims of Thailand will vilifies Israel for it's so called atrocities in Gaza , look and

 see what is going on in your own back yard....

 

 

The insurgents in the South are Muslims.   The Insurgents in the South who have murdered thousands over the past 10 years are Muslims.  The Insurgents who kill women, children and

babies in the South are Muslims.

 

The Malaysians who want to bring in strict Shi-rea  law live next door to South Thailand  Oh and their Muslims

 

Nothing to do with religion  ho hum

[connda]

The "why"is deeply rooted in the region's history and is complex but the violence has moved beyond a cause to a way of life. In most insurgencies there are attempts by the government to remove the offending leadership and force negotiation. It seems the leadership behind the violence remains unchecked and building fences around schools is no help. Unless something changes, this cycle will continue for another generation.

 

It's like exploding an improvised explosive device in the middle of a crowed street.  The victims?  Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, old, young, rich, poor...   senseless.

What is gained in promoting that kind of chaos?  What are the perpetrators attempting to accomplish?  In ISIS controlled areas of the ME it's a little easier to discern - establishment of a Sunni caliphate.  But in Southern Thailand?  I don't get it.  If someone has come across any articles that go into an analysis of the Southern Thai conflict, historic to present, please send me a link.  I'd like to be a little less ignorant on this subject.


 

[The Deerhunter]

A small minority of terrorists could not inflict such damage armed with stones and clubs, trace the money, arms and equipment, you will find who the people behind the massacres are, and what their motivations are. IMO, some 'important persons' in neighbouring Malaysian Sultanates might well have 'the answers'...

(f.i. Do you remember that attack of a police station about 4-5 years ago, where the RTA was previously informed of, and it went very wrong indeed for the terrorists, well, from a credible source on the spot, I have heard many/most of the attackers were driving brand new motorbikes, all the same ones, were wearing the same, new, branded jogging trousers and sweat shirts, had the same, new, Nike shoes on their feet, and were armed with same, new, erm..., Thai Army issue, stolen/bought M16 rifles, isn't the picture clear enough...)

Lots of factlets but still just as clear as mud.  I have no idea who you think is behind this.    I always though it was about Muslims wanting a separate Muslim province or sharia law or seceding the provinces to Malaysia.  You know, the usual type of Euro Muslim demands

[The Deerhunter]

Are these comments for real or every poster is being ironical? O_o

How can you say this is just terrorism without reason? That area was a semi independent sultanate just 100 years ago. Now everything comes dictated by the central government: Local community leaders have no power, their language is not taught at school, Islam is not taught at school but Buddhism is ... That without mentioning they are treated worst than animals (remember the big group suffocated to death in the truck? Or how they were forced to walk like worms while the standing soldiers kicked them?)

I don't know what planet you guys come from but many would be doing the same if they were in their situation. The solution is easy, start giving them a certain degree of autonomy and respect them, their language and their culture.

It is actually surprising that this only happened there with that central Thai mentality to impose a homogeneous culture, language and religion to a country with so many ethnic backgrounds. They could start by declaring all the different languages cooficial to Thai and stop forcing students to learn Buddhism. Then give more autonomy to the regions that historically weren't controlled by a central government or with a strong sense of identity and let them decide their stuff instead of imposing things from a Bangkok that is so far away that doesn't know a thing about the reality there.

The above stuff sounds like a preamble to allowing them Sharia law.  How far to go with the autonomy, that is the question?

[Johpa]

 

Religion is the new fashionable rallying call but the south is not a religious conflict. Terrorism is primely terrorism and nothing more, and this conflict is neither religious or political, just renegades causing mayhem because they can.

 

 

Amazing the level of historical ignorance one can find on these boards. The far south  consists largely of an irredentist poulation (look it up) of Malays.  They are unhappy with the tides of history and are violently advocating for turning back the clock, something that they are incapable of causing to happen. This is a somewhat similar situation to the Palestinian conundrum.  Both groups use terrorism against civilian populations to get noticed.  Both situations are exacerbated by Islamic beliefs, but are not fundamentally caused by Islamic beliefs.

[CBR250]

 

 

A small minority of terrorists could not inflict such damage armed with stones and clubs, trace the money, arms and equipment, you will find who the people behind the massacres are, and what their motivations are. IMO, some 'important persons' in neighbouring Malaysian Sultanates might well have 'the answers'...
(f.i. Do you remember that attack of a police station about 4-5 years ago, where the RTA was previously informed of, and it went very wrong indeed for the terrorists, well, from a credible source on the spot, I have heard many/most of the attackers were driving brand new motorbikes, all the same ones, were wearing the same, new, branded jogging trousers and sweat shirts, had the same, new, Nike shoes on their feet, and were armed with same, new, erm..., Thai Army issue, stolen/bought M16 rifles, isn't the picture clear enough...)

It is pretty widely accepted that Saudi arabia provide both the religious teaching as well as the funding for their activities.
 
Follow the money!

Precisely! While there may be indigenous causes for this conflict, it certainly appears that the terrorists are getting outside support. It also seems very odd that the insurgents have not made public demands for autonomy, as they did in Aceh in Sumutra, for example. Indeed, not at all clear who these insurgents are - but the problem is real, with the death toll rising . This will be the litmus test for the Thai military government, with no one to blame if things do not improve.

 

 

I'm glad you drew attention to Aceh, which since it achieved limited autonomy has disappeared off the news. No reports or deaths or even fighting. Maybe the strategy of limited autonomy is the way to make a difference to troubled areas where the population feels disenfranchised and discriminated against. Limited autonomy was the conclusion in the very illuminating paper by the Thai Colonel that Simple1 (I believe it was) posted a link to earlier.

[JDGRUEN]

The author of this article and / or the government officials the author believes he/she is depicting or explaining - is a totally ignorant FOOL ...   

 

Followers of Islam - known as Muslims are led by a male dominated violent cult - who believes in their closeted blind faith that women have to be subjected, dominated - controlled and ruled over... and likewise in their twisted viewpoint that the rest of the world should be treated likewise... There will be no peace in far south Thailand unless and until the radical fundamentalist Muslims are defeated totally and removed from all influence ... barring that ...  far south Thailand has NO POSITIVE FUTURE... 

[englishoak]

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Acts of violence "here and there." Overall, this is a very disturbing troublesome editorial that looks like it is suggesting that the majority of Thais don't care that close to 7,000 are dead in the Thai south and tens of thousands injured for over 12 years. It is in fact a put down of the majority of THais who care deeply about their muslim and buddhist brothers in the south. The editorial should not be insinuating that muslims all around Thailand would be "on the band wagon" as if it's some kind of festival going on down in the Thai souh. It is a very shameful disturbing Thai point of view.

 

The point of view here is alarming to say the least

Yes, it's downright appalling and scary.

 

It is but its also very typical of the selfish apathy towards others in so many areas here ... sadly

[simple1]

 

The "why"is deeply rooted in the region's history and is complex but the violence has moved beyond a cause to a way of life. In most insurgencies there are attempts by the government to remove the offending leadership and force negotiation. It seems the leadership behind the violence remains unchecked and building fences around schools is no help. Unless something changes, this cycle will continue for another generation.

 

It's like exploding an improvised explosive device in the middle of a crowed street.  The victims?  Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, old, young, rich, poor...   senseless.

What is gained in promoting that kind of chaos?  What are the perpetrators attempting to accomplish?  In ISIS controlled areas of the ME it's a little easier to discern - establishment of a Sunni caliphate.  But in Southern Thailand?  I don't get it.  If someone has come across any articles that go into an analysis of the Southern Thai conflict, historic to present, please send me a link.  I'd like to be a little less ignorant on this subject.


 

 

 

try this as a starting point...

 

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

[squarethecircle]

Seems like if it were a genuine ethno-nationalist conflict like this guy's saying, someone would be stepping up to negotiate for autonomy. Also seems like this may have been the case with the older BRN "insurgents" (some of whom I recall were granted refugee status in Europe). Did you know that Hambali (the JI terrorist behind many attacks including the Bali ones) spent 3 days with the Yala Islamic University rector prior to his arrest by Thai and US authorities in Ayutthaya: 

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20180/southern-thailand-and-outside-influences/

Where there's smoke there's fire, and that alone says there are clearly connections with the broader Islamist terrorist movements, in addition to perhaps black market or grey market business conflicts using it as a cover. And where does the money come from?

[simple1]

Seems like if it were a genuine ethno-nationalist conflict like this guy's saying, someone would be stepping up to negotiate for autonomy. Also seems like this may have been the case with the older BRN "insurgents" (some of whom I recall were granted refugee status in Europe). Did you know that Hambali (the JI terrorist behind many attacks including the Bali ones) spent 3 days with the Yala Islamic University rector prior to his arrest by Thai and US authorities in Ayutthaya: 

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20180/southern-thailand-and-outside-influences/

Where there's smoke there's fire, and that alone says there are clearly connections with the broader Islamist terrorist movements, in addition to perhaps black market or grey market business conflicts using it as a cover. And where does the money come from?

 

Desire for some form of autonomy / local provincial governance has been around for quite a while. As you indicate religious based radicalisation has increased over time within the various groups. I question if the local population is comfortable with this outcome, this seems to be confirmed by the detailed analysis I posted in another topic.

 

Factions within the military have consistently refused to negotiate for autonomy; the NCOP has very recently reaffirmed this policy. I guess no space left for negotiations, with continuation of violence for the foreseeable future

[squarethecircle]

"I question if the local population is comfortable with this outcome, this seems to be confirmed by the detailed analysis I posted in another topic."

If they are fine with murderous rampages going on in their backyard, does their opinion matter? As I pointed out before the Indians in Malaysia make exactly the same kind of complaints about being disenfranchised, but have mounted a peaceful, non-violent resistance in line with Hindu beliefs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_HINDRAF_rally . This is in marked contrast to the terrorist campaign waged in S Thailand. 

 

"Factions within the military have consistently refused to negotiate for autonomy; the NCOP has very recently reaffirmed this policy. I guess no space left for negotiations, with continuation of violence for the foreseeable future"

Makes sense as there is no one to negotiate with. One thing I can see happening: basically every country on the planet is facing threats from murderous Muslim terrorists: India, China, Russia, Thailand, Phillippines, Myanmar, Europe, Africa, US, etc. There could be a joint crackdown that would effectively start a third world war (as literally millions of people out have no education other than from the "holy book" and are quite willing to die to go meet Allah and his 72 queens). Another possibility is that they do gain increasing power but fizzle out due to internal factors. Maybe governments could arm the Shias and use them as a weapon against Sunni terrorists - that worked temporarily in 2007 in Iraq, but similar efforts to arm jihadists (such as Ch. and US arming Afghan mujihadeen) have backfired.

[Smurkster]

No it's not a religious conflict it's a conflict much akin to Israel/Palestine.....the southernmost part of Thailand was Malay territory for thousands of years up until early 20th century, these people were muslim and had no kinship to Ethnic Thais, yet we're forced to become part of "Siam"...I see their fight as a struggle for the freedom that so dearly deserve and a chance NOT to be part of the modern Thai nation that many want nothing to do with

[squarethecircle]

No it's not a religious conflict it's a conflict much akin to Israel/Palestine.....the southernmost part of Thailand was Malay territory for thousands of years up until early 20th century, these people were muslim and had no kinship to Ethnic Thais, yet we're forced to become part of "Siam"...I see their fight as a struggle for the freedom that so dearly deserve and a chance NOT to be part of the modern Thai nation that many want nothing to do with

Yeah but why such brutality? There are plenty of other ethnic minorities such as up in the north or in Issan that are caught up in the modern Thai nation but aren't blowing up or murdering civilians. Elsewhere this is also the cause. Seems like the exact same thing is going on up in Xinjiang in western China, locals have resentment against being included in a government that is not their own (in that case PRC) but that alone isn't fueling the extreme violence. Just yesterday I read a powerful imam there was murdered right in the open in front of police, the normal day-to-day locals are not behind this, so the question is: WHO???

[Thongkorn]

The troubles in the South of Thailand are not religion based, Its because the People do not want to be Thai , or Malaysian. They want there own rule, 

[Smurkster]

The troubles in the South of Thailand are not religion based, Its because the People do not want to be Thai , or Malaysian. They want there own rule, 

yes, I do think many want their own rule, to not be Thai or Malaysian but have an independent "Pattani Republic" like there was in the early 20th century....they might  not identify Malaysian, but they CERTAINLY do not identify as Thai

[The Deerhunter]

 

 

Religion is the new fashionable rallying call but the south is not a religious conflict. Terrorism is primely terrorism and nothing more, and this conflict is neither religious or political, just renegades causing mayhem because they can.

 

 

Amazing the level of historical ignorance one can find on these boards. The far south  consists largely of an irredentist poulation (look it up) of Malays.  They are unhappy with the tides of history and are violently advocating for turning back the clock, something that they are incapable of causing to happen. This is a somewhat similar situation to the Palestinian conundrum.  Both groups use terrorism against civilian populations to get noticed.  Both situations are exacerbated by Islamic beliefs, but are not fundamentally caused by Islamic beliefs.

 

Oxford english dictionary does not have " irredentist"   Use smaller words that we all, including the editors of OED have heard of.