When Nomads becomes Static are they still Nomadic?

[Soutpeel]

Not making complex at all.... it was a simple question, direct me to a EU tourist/visitors or work visa obtained off thier own bat, without an employers sponsorship that would allow a Thai national to operate a on line for free lance business legally in Europe ?

If for example a Chinese is accepted to an European university, he or she can setup business the next day while studying in many cases FOR FREE in the university. That is one way.

Another way is special permits for experts like IT people. If you earn minimum of 3000 euros per month, you can get a temporary permission to stay in EU. So a Thai onliner would quite easily get a permission to stay if earning that sum and after 5 years it will be turned into permanent residence permit.

Another way: A lot of Asian businessmen just setup a business and import Asian people to work for them.

in the first example the chinese is not a tourist, they have been granted student visa's so that not relevant

and how are said "special permits" obtained ? through a sponsoring company or entitly by any chance ?, but again said Thai is not arriving and living on tourist visa

"temporary permission to stay" which exactly what Thailand does now as regards WP's, 1 or 2 years at time, and guess what after 3 years on a WP a receiving a certain defined salary one can apply permanent residence permit, so it seems in this regard Thailand is more liberal than europe only requires 3 years instead of 5

and yes setting up a business is a way... guess what in Thailand set up a THB 2.0 million company, employ a few Thai's and one can do the same

[Timwin]

Sponsored by who ?, a Scandanavian company by any chance ?.... and they will not be in Europe on a tourist visa, but work visa/permit of some description

internesting comparison guess what Thailand requires ?... sponsorship by Thai company to get a WP...

The way it works is the berry selling companies apply from ministry of employment and/or immigration how many Thais they want for this summer. Then the ministry does something very nice for Thai workers: They actually check out those companies to make sure they will be able to pay the salaries! Before Thai workers even enter in the country.

Then they give the permissions to enter the country, according to the numbers given by the companies deemed reliable. Full house service for Thais.

[Soutpeel]

Sponsored by who ?, a Scandanavian company by any chance ?.... and they will not be in Europe on a tourist visa, but work visa/permit of some description

internesting comparison guess what Thailand requires ?... sponsorship by Thai company to get a WP...

The way it works is the berry selling companies apply from ministry of employment and/or immigration how many Thais they want for this summer. Then the ministry does something very nice for Thai workers: They actually check out those companies to make sure they will be able to pay the salaries! Before Thai workers even enter in the country.

Then they give the permissions to enter the country, according to the numbers given by the companies deemed reliable. Full house service for Thais.

ok but they are not rocking up on tourist visa's in europe and going to work are they ?...there is a "sponsorship" process involved yes ?

[Timwin]

and how are said "special permits" obtained ? through a sponsoring company or entitly by any chance ?, but again said Thai is not arriving and living on tourist visa..

and yes setting up a business is a way... guess what in Thailand set up a THB 2.0 million company, employ a few Thai's and one can do the same

The thing is once you can prove to an EU country officials, you earn and will earn 3000 euros brutto per month, you are allowed in. Anything less would not make much sense anyway because of the living costs. Most Asians go to work for their friend's company first and get the permit to stay that way. There are no forbidden job lists like in Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

Even though this is exactly what so many legit tourists do without any issues right now. Deal with an hour a days work email and continue with their vacation..

Of course, but we have to accept legit tourists are not claiming "residency" in Thailand are they ?, they are doing their 3 weeks or so in the sun and going home again

And many nomads are passing through too.. But would potentially pay to be legal here for months at a time..

[Timwin]

ok but they are not rocking up on tourist visa's in europe and going to work are they ?...there is a "sponsorship" process involved yes ?

Thais pay for their own fight tickets, usually borrow money for that in Thailand. Companies provide place to sleep and cook their own food and that is it. They pay by the kilo for berries. They earn 1-4 years worth of Thai salaries there.

[LivinLOS]

Also, if someone is legally inside the EU without a work prohibited visa status.. all this work permits, labor office, company formation, VAT accounts, local hire staff, etc.. is non existent.. Simply work with clients outside the country, earn, pay your income taxes and get on with making money..

It really is quite simple.. Even if you wish to make it seem complex.

Not making complex at all.... it was a simple question, direct me to a EU tourist/visitors or work visa obtained off thier own bat, without an employers sponsorship that would allow a Thai national to operate a on line for free lance business legally in Europe ?

Can tourists work legally in Europe ?... one suspects with a few exceptions I can think of, they cant.

The problem with this whole Thai on liner/freelancer WP/visa question is that there are two very distinct and very different issues, its not just creating an "online visa" which would require changes in the immigration law, there is also the business/companies law and the taxation law which need changing as well

A lot of posters are looking at this question too simplisitically by say we want a visa to work on line and be given a WP and we will give a bit of tax for your trouble.... its not that simple.

Can a Thai wife married to a westerner work easily and without restriction online.. Sure.. No paperwork.. go for it..

Can a Thai have a western sponsor, without any multiple locals etc, say au pair etc.. No company, no accounts, just pay income tax.. Go for it..

Can an EU person rock up and work (without taxes for 6 months) through any EU country.. Sure.. No paperwork.. go for it..

Can a Thai on any class of non tourist visa work for up to 6 months not paying taxes sure.. no paperwork..

Isnt that just like getting a B visa and working online ?? Comparable to coming here, with a B , working 6 months paying nothing, and leaving..

Yes if they want immigrant status.. The kind that in a couple of years leads to citizenship, its a bit more restrictive. But look at the benefits.. Talking about immigrant status and becoming a citizen in a few years.. In a country with unemployment benefits and pensions and medical cover.. Thats not really the same ballpark as what Thailand is offering for its taxes is it ??

[tifino]

a static (or stagnant) nomad, would be a 'squatter'?

[MartinSnow]

Im assuming the Thais allow retirement visas because these farang spend good money on local services such as food, beer, transport etc. which makes a huge contribution to the local economy. Obvioulsy they not getting tax income from this group, but its still valuable fiance into the system, effectively employing thousands/millions of thai staff - who would otherwise not have a business/job-

The only difference between the retirees, and the young digital nomads as I see it- is the later may be perceived as taking Thai jobs. But that argument doesn't really stake up...

No Farang would be prepared to work below Thai rates, so they will in-effect only ever get employed for jobs the locals cannot do! Thus they are never taking a job, and only adding valuable finance into the system, creating jobs etc.

Personally if I were allowed to, Id employ Thai video guys, developers, designers etc. (where I could find good quality) but alas Im not allowed to, because that would then imply that Im working to. So Im restricted from creating even more jobs - seems crazy!

The reality is, there are thousands of people in Thailand and in many other countries that are self-employed online businesses. And no visa is available for them, and thus they are forced to lie. They will continue to lie, until an option is available for them. Simple.

[paddyjenkins]

Perhaps a way to distinguish is as follows :

If there is a person who builds websites in the US, having paying customers, either self employed or employed, then that person is considered to either be working as an employee and pays income tax, or to be a business and pays business tax.

If that person moves to Thailand and does exactly the same thing, with the same remote customers, then any reasonable person would agree that person was still working or in business. No difference apart from location. And so it would not be unfair if the Thai authorities reached the same conclusion and required either a work permit and work visa or a business visa and applicable taxes to be paid.

On the other hand if that person was a blogger in the US, or he just liked to tweak his own website for the sake of Interest, and he had no employer and no revenue and no customers then he would not be considered to be working by most people and would not pay taxes. He would in effect just be spending time on a hobby. No difference between that and playing golf or something like that. So if he came over to Thailand and did the same thing then he would also not be working and would not need a work permit or business permit.

My point is we more or less know work or business when we see it. Have customers, perform services, get paid...that's work or a business. Is it a hobby or is it a job...that's the distinction.

So I maintain that a a blogger, or person who enjoys creative writing, or other similar things that are done on a purely individual basis with no employment or customers have little to fear from the extremely vague Thai definition of work, although I still won't say if is impossible they could be accused of work, just that that's highly unlikely...as unlikely as a golfer would be accused of working when playing golf. However, if that golfer taught golf, or was sponsored and played golf for income then that might be treated differently.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Ayemanomad]

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If you can leave the country and not worry about the financial loss of leaving stuff behind you're a nomad. If you haven't put roots down by buying houses or businesses, you're a nomad. People exist in Thailand for years with a nomadic attitude, and they tend to be the happiest - they're here because they want to be here - not because they are trapped.

It doesn't matter what visa you're on - retirement/work/whatever - as long as you can leave in a heart-beat without worrying about what you leave behind - you are a nomad.

Non-nomads own houses/condos/businesses - or are tied to families. Some non-nomads can't afford the price of a flight home - non-nomads are stuck, they have to disentangle themselves to get out of the country. I'd guess that ninety-odd percent of long-stayers in Thailand take a nomadic attitude to the country. Even of they have been here for years, they will never allow themselves to be trapped in Thailand. I'd place a bet that ninety-odd percent of long=stayers in Thailand could leave within twenty-four hours and leave nothing of consequence behind.

So when do you stop being a nomad? when you put down roots that have to be ripped out to allow you to leave.

That applies to everyone. irrespective of age or length of time in the country.

"If you can leave the country and not worry about the financial loss of leaving stuff behind you're a nomad. If you haven't put roots down by buying houses or businesses, you're a nomad."

I would disagree. I meet all your criteria above, yet wouldn't consider myself a nomad. I have made sacrifices, rather adjustments, to remain in this country. I still have the freedom to travel anywhere I want, my wife would travel with me. To lose a car and a job would also be acceptable, but why would I want to? That to me is not being nomadic.

As with the OP, the majority of people chasing the criteria for "IT nomads" are in my opinion looking for long stay options to remain in Thailand, going against the description of their occupation. Also, the majority are not willing to make changes to accommodate the laws of the country, they want their cake and to eat it as well.

Nomadic is continually on the move.

I believe you work out of the county and you are constantly on the move?

I went to UK at the beginning of last year. First time out of the country (Thailand) in 14 years.

It's a fair achievement to have lived in Thailand and not put down any roots - you are a nomad and you just don't realize it.

On the dark days when things looked like they were going all wrong and everyone has them, whether in there personal life or watching the political developments in this county - did you ever say to yourself?

"I can get out quickly, and leave nothing of consequence behind?"

I bet you did - and I bet there's many a day you are secretly proud of the fact that you can go to the airport and leave, and never look over your shoulder.

That's what nomad's do - you are a nomad.

I enjoy being a nomad and I don't mind being called one. It gives me a sense of freedom to come and go as I please. I'm a happy wanderer.