Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Smokegreynblues]

On 7/17/2018 at 5:38 AM, Arkady said:

 

Re your enquiry about citizenship, people have successfully applied in Chiang Mai but I doubt, if any of the other Northern provinces would be able and willing to handle an application.  The Act requires applicants in the provinces to apply to Special Branch in their province, probably for the ostensible convenience of applicants and the ease of local SB checking their backgrounds. The problem is that it is a complex process and it would be a lot of work for a provincial SB HQ to figure out how to do it for a one-off case. They would need to make many calls to the responsible Interior Ministry department at Lamlukka who tend to be contemptuous of the police and may be uncooperative. Most provincial SB HQs will either flatly refuse to process a citizenship application, deny it’s their job or agree to do it but just give you the run around  until you give up or try to process it as best they can but mess it up. Typically applicants in provinces other than CM, Chonburi and Phuket end up having to get on to a friend’s tabien Baan in Bangkok for a few years in order to apply successfully, which involves a number of trips to Bangkok. For some, particularly those without PR, all this may be worth the trouble. For others happy with PR, it might not be. I applied after 14 years of PR and it was worth it for me, as I wanted to be able to own land in my own name among other things and, fortunately, I live in Bangkok.

how can i ask my friend to put me on a Bangkok tabian ban ( Yellow obviously) pardon the language without me being married to them / or owning my own condo etc, i mean which amphur would actually register me without those two grounds? 

[eldepinamar]

Hi All,

 

Just need help here with a couple of questions:

 

1. Got PR 3 years ago. My first certificate of residence (blue book) is full of stamps so I need to get a new one (white book). Do I need to present the original of tabien baan or copy would also work ? It is a little bit difficult for me to get an original one, since it is my (now ex) girlfriends condo.

 

2. I just bought a condo 6 month ago. What exactly should I do in order to move myself to a new tabien baan? So far the plan is:

 

1. Go to my old tabien baan police station and tell them that I want to move to another place (both places are in Bangkok)

2. Go to my new tabien baan police station and register there (red book)

3. Go to khet office and put my name into new tabien baan

4. Go to Immigration and update/get a new white book (certificate of residence)

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

[scorecard]

56 minutes ago, eldepinamar said:

Hi All,

 

Just need help here with a couple of questions:

 

1. Got PR 3 years ago. My first certificate of residence (blue book) is full of stamps so I need to get a new one (white book). Do I need to present the original of tabien baan or copy would also work ? It is a little bit difficult for me to get an original one, since it is my (now ex) girlfriends condo.

 

2. I just bought a condo 6 month ago. What exactly should I do in order to move myself to a new tabien baan? So far the plan is:

 

1. Go to my old tabien baan police station and tell them that I want to move to another place (both places are in Bangkok)

2. Go to my new tabien baan police station and register there (red book)

3. Go to khet office and put my name into new tabien baan

4. Go to Immigration and update/get a new white book (certificate of residence)

 

Is this correct?

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

Seems to me there are 2 points here re address.

 

1. Tabien Baan book, and sorry but I can't offer any comment on how to get a TB book etc.

 

2. The red police registration book. I have PR, my red police registration book was issued at the big Banglamung Police station. I moved my family permenantly to Chiang Mai but it was 20 days after the move that I went back to Pattaya and to the Banglamung police station to tell them I had changed address to CM. The officer was pleasant but told me PR holders have to advise change of address to the police station where the red book is centered within 7 days.

 

Bottom line, I paid a 1,000Baht fine and got an official receipt. The officer then packed my file (quite a lot of documents, more than I had realized they hold, into a big official envelope with a letter, the envelope was sealed and passed to me to take to CM. The officer at Banglamung made it clear that I must present the envelope to the appropriate police station in CM inside of 7 days. and she mentioned that the date I received the envelope was mentioned in the letter inside the envelope.

 

With my Thai adult son in tow I took the envelope (unopened) to the appropriate CM police station within 48 hours. The CM officer, very pleasant, checked everything thoroughly then updated my red police registration book with a new entry, date of the address update and new photo. As per standard procedure need to do the update again 5 years from date first updated in CM. 

 

3. I confirm replacement PR book (dark blue to white colour) is done at Immigration. I live in Chiang Mai, I went to Immigration in CM (about 4 months ago), they said they have to send everything to Chaeng Wattana to get a replacement book and it would take 4 to 6 weeks. They also suggested it would be much easier to go to Bkk and go, personally, to Chiang Wattana and request a new PR book.

 

I did just that, I did have to show the original Tabien Baan book and the red police registration book, and had to go back after 4 working days to pick up the new PR book. (Four days a bit annoying because all they do is hand write not many words from the first few pages of the old PR book to the new PR book, no more than a few minutes work. There is no 'approval' needed. And the 2 ladies who work in this specific section were polite but very instructive).

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by scorecard

[eldepinamar]

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Seems to me there are 2 points here re address.

 

1. Tabien Baan book, and sorry but I can't offer any comment on how to get a TB book etc.

 

2. The red police registration book. I have PR, my red police registration book was issued at the big Banglamung Police station. I moved my family permenantly to Chiang Mai but it was 20 days after the move that I went back to Pattaya and to the Banglamung police station to tell them I had changed address to CM. The officer was pleasant but told me PR holders have to advise change of address to the police station where the red book is centered within 7 days.

 

Bottom line, I paid a 1,000Baht fine and got an official receipt. The officer then packed my file (quite a lot of documents, more than I had realized they hold, into a big official envelope with a letter, the envelope was sealed and passed to me to take to CM. The officer at Banglamung made it clear that I must present the envelope to the appropriate police station in CM inside of 7 days. and she mentioned that the date I received the envelope was mentioned in the letter inside the envelope.

 

With my Thai adult son in tow I took the envelope (unopened) to the appropriate CM police station within 48 hours. The CM officer, very pleasant, checked everything thoroughly then updated my red police registration book with a new entry, date of the address update and new photo. As per standard procedure need to do the update again 5 years from date first updated in CM. 

 

3. I confirm replacement PR book (dark blue to white colour) is done at Immigration. I live in Chiang Mai, I went to Immigration in CM (about 4 months ago), they said they have to send everything to Chaeng Wattana to get a replacement book and it would take 4 to 6 weeks. They also suggested it would be much easier to go to Bkk and go, personally, to Chiang Wattana and request a new PR book.

 

I did just that, I did have to show the original Tabien Baan book and the red police registration book, and had to go back after 4 working days to pick up the new PR book. (Four days a bit annoying because all they do is hand write not many words from the first few pages of the old PR book to the new PR book, no more than a few minutes work. There is no 'approval' needed. And the 2 ladies who work in this specific section were polite but very instructive).

 

 

Thanks a lot, this is very helpful.

 

Just one question, when did you change your Tabien Baan from Pattaya to CM? before informing police station in Pattaya or after?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, eldepinamar said:

Thanks a lot, this is very helpful.

 

Just one question, when did you change your Tabien Baan from Pattaya to CM? before informing police station in Pattaya or after?

 My Thai son is the 'housemaster in the Tabien Baan book, he transferred all the names (himself, his Thai wife and 3 kids, and me) immediately the house was finished and the land (in CM) was transferred to his name. But in fact we didn't occupy the CM house until maybe a week later.

 

So my name was already in the CM Tabien Baan book before I went to the Banglamung police station to transfer my HR / Police stuff. 

 

All of this is I guess necessary but also a bit of a nuisance, but to a major extent very mechanical.

 

Good luck. 

[Pokati]

Hi,

 

I'm preparing application for PR. One thing I'm doubting about is the Category I will apply in. I'm working in Thailand for over 4 years and I'm married with my Thai wife just over a year. 

 

It seems that the documents required for the Work category are less as compared to the ones required for the Married / Spouse category. So my questions:

 

- is there any benefit to applying in either one of these categories?

- if I apply for the working category will the fee be the 191k or 95k?

- which category would one advice me in my situation?

 

I've tried finding the information in this thread and online, but I'm not able to come up with a good answer.

 

Thanks in advance

Edited September 23, 2018 by Pokati

[GabbaGabbaHey]

5 minutes ago, Pokati said:

- if I apply for the working category will the fee be the 191k or 95k?

95K as you are married to a Thai national

[Pokati]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

95K as you are married to a Thai national

Thanks, that's clear.

 

Any idea if there is any benefit applying in either Work category or Married / Spouse category?

 

In case of applying in working I think it wouldn't hurt to add the marriage documents anyway. But I'm just curious if there is a difference in the way both categories are evaluated.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, Pokati said:

Any idea if there is any benefit applying in either Work category or Married / Spouse category?

None other than marriage has a lower salary requirement.

11 hours ago, Pokati said:

In case of applying in working I think it wouldn't hurt to add the marriage documents anyway. But I'm just curious if there is a difference in the way both categories are evaluated.

Marriage would put it under the humanitarian category that make it a easier decision for those considering your application.

[Arkady]

Even if someone choose not to take advantage of the married discount and applied as working only, they would still scrutinize your marriage ( and kids, if any) when they saw you had a Thai  spouse. The humanitarian category is a bit of a misnomer, since you still have to be working and meet the same disclosed criteria as someone not married to a Thai. As far as I have ever been able to figure out, the “humanitarian” aspect is the discount which is certainly a decent concession. So many Indians and Chinese, who have spouses from their own country get PR (and citizenship) that it is obvious that they don’t have a problem with applicants who are not married to Thais. Conversely they are will not pass someone who is married to a Thai but doesn’t meet their disclosed and undisclosed qualifications, particularly considering they would only be earning half the fee and might even be exposed to accusations of taking a bribe.

[SteveB2]

7 hours ago, Arkady said:

Even if someone choose not to take advantage of the married discount and applied as working only, they would still scrutinize your marriage ( and kids, if any) when they saw you had a Thai  spouse. The humanitarian category is a bit of a misnomer, since you still have to be working and meet the same disclosed criteria as someone not married to a Thai. As far as I have ever been able to figure out, the “humanitarian” aspect is the discount which is certainly a decent concession. So many Indians and Chinese, who have spouses from their own country get PR (and citizenship) that it is obvious that they don’t have a problem with applicants who are not married to Thais. Conversely they are will not pass someone who is married to a Thai but doesn’t meet their disclosed and undisclosed qualifications, particularly considering they would only be earning half the fee and might even be exposed to accusations of taking a bribe.

Indeed... The 'married with a Thai Spouse' category is generally seen as a much easier application route for PR than applying for PR as a businessman.

 

Consider for a moment who you would consider to be a businessman that Thailand wants to attract? Likely this will be someone earning at least USD100K/annum or THB275K/month. 

 

The 'businessman' PR application route is not aimed at someone teaching English in an upcountry school or holding down only a lowly paid clerical job (say THB80-100K/month) regardless of what the published PR requirements say, this will not be enough to pass the PR approval committee vetting as a businessman. (These are the words spoken to me directly from the CW PR section division head when I applied for PR a few years back)

 

The 'Married to a Thai' category also has points attached to the application depending on the number of years married and how many children you have among many other vetting criteria.

 

For example (from the undisclosed PR vetting manual. Don't quote me on this na!):-

 

1 point     Married to a Thai national under 5 years

2 points   Married to a Thai national 5-10 years

3 points   Married to a Thai national 10-15 years

 

Meaning that, applicants who have been married to their Thai spouse for a decade or more with a couple of their own kids (CW PR group insists on DNA vetted of the entire family by DSI(Bangkok, I should add) have a greater chance of being issued PR under the 'married with a Thai spouse' category than a newly married couple with no kids. They are very suspicious of 'Mariage blanc' arrangements.

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Indeed... The 'married with a Thai Spouse' category is generally seen as a much easier application route for PR than applying for PR as a businessman.

 

Consider for a moment who you would consider to be a businessman that Thailand wants to attract? Likely this will be someone earning at least USD100K/annum or THB275K/month. 

 

The 'businessman' PR application route is not aimed at someone teaching English in an upcountry school or holding down only a lowly paid clerical job (say THB80-100K/month) regardless of what the published PR requirements say, this will not be enough to pass the PR approval committee vetting as a businessman. (These are the words spoken to me directly from the CW PR section division head when I applied for PR a few years back)

 

The 'Married to a Thai' category also has points attached to the application depending on the number of years married and how many children you have among many other vetting criteria.

 

For example (from the undisclosed PR vetting manual. Don't quote me on this na!):-

 

1 point     Married to a Thai national under 5 years

2 points   Married to a Thai national 5-10 years

3 points   Married to a Thai national 10-15 years

 

Meaning that, applicants who have been married to their Thai spouse for a decade or more with a couple of their own kids (CW PR group insists on DNA vetted of the entire family by DSI(Bangkok, I should add) have a greater chance of being issued PR under the 'married with a Thai spouse' category than a newly married couple with no kids. They are very suspicious of 'Mariage blanc' arrangements.

 

I may be wrong because I wasn't married at the time I applied for PR (and anyway the fee was only B50,000 then with no marriage discount) but I think you have to apply under the married to a Thai "humanitarian" category, in order to get the discount. Whatever you do they are bound to do the detailed checks on a Thai wife and kids, if you have them.  If the undisclosed points systems requires 50 out of 100, as in the disclosed system for citizenship, you would have to be a borderline candidate to have to scrabble for 1-3 points as the husband of a Thai citizen.   Things have changed since I applied and it is possible that those who apply under the married category do have a lower salary hurdle imposed these days.   But most of the farangs learning lowish salaries but with Thai wives are bypassing PR these days and applying straight for citizenship for which they only need B40,000 a month, there are no undisclosed qualifications and the fee is only B5,000 plus B1,000 for the naturalisation certificate.  Quite a few teachers earning exactly B40,000 or just a little over have already got their citizenship. 

 

Unfortunately the 'mariage blanc' has become very common, so they probably have no choice but to scrutinise these.  Apparently they have upped the level of scrutiny of those who apply for citizenship on the basis of marriage a fair bit too recently.  It is now being reported that some Thai women are finding they have been married to Indians without their knowledge.  Corrupt district officials just find the names of unmarried Thai women from the database and issue a marriage certificate for a foreigner without them being present.  Presumably the foreign grooms also have to bribe immigration officials to get marriage visa extensions without the Thai spouse being present.  With the export of population from China that is ongoing and their willingness to pay bribes this situation can only get much worse.   

[stbkk]

I have just renewed my red police book at Klong Tan police station for another 5 years.

 

In and out in less than 15 minutes. 800 Baht. No other documents looked at (I had the full portfolio, but never even took them out of my bag), no photos needed.

 

Great job.

[scorecard]

36 minutes ago, stbkk said:

I have just renewed my red police book at Klong Tan police station for another 5 years.

 

In and out in less than 15 minutes. 800 Baht. No other documents looked at (I had the full portfolio, but never even took them out of my bag), no photos needed.

 

Great job.

 

 

It's standard to paste a new photo into the next 5 years block box on the appropriate page of the police book and the dates every time the standard 5 year update is done.

 

They did it without a photo?

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by scorecard

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

 

It's standard to paste a new photo into the next 5 years block box on the appropriate page of the police book and the dates every time the standard 5 year update is done.

 

They did it without a photo?

 

 

I was asked for a new photograph when endorsing the alien book after 10 years. After 5 years and 15 years they didn’t ask for one. 

[scorecard]

49 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

I was asked for a new photograph when endorsing the alien book after 10 years. After 5 years and 15 years they didn’t ask for one. 

 

 

Like many things there seems to be 'different' processes.

 

My red book has been endorsed every 5 years X 5 times, after the initial 2 years period, every time a current photo was required. and endorsement needed again very soon.

 

The first several endorsements were at Banglamung and the last time at Banglamung the police lady said next time 10 years.

 

Then moved to Chiang Mai, again a photo needed and we asked the police guy if it could be for 10 years rather than 5. He politely said '10 years not possible, maximum is 5 years'.

 

No big deal.  

 

 

[stbkk]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, scorecard said:

 

 

It's standard to paste a new photo into the next 5 years block box on the appropriate page of the police book and the dates every time the standard 5 year update is done.

 

They did it without a photo?

 

No photo asked for. I had some with me just in case though. This was my first 'update' since I got my PR 6 years ago. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by stbkk
Added extra sentence.

[FarangRimPing]

PR holders are required to report to the local police station every 5 years with their Alien Registration book, as we know. I assume that if you go through proper procedures to officially change your address, including going to the new location's police station with the Alien book, and then getting placed in a new Tabien Baan, the time ticker is reset to 0, so that you next have to report in 5 years from the time you last visited the new local police station.

 

Correct?

[Arkady]

15 hours ago, FarangRimPing said:

PR holders are required to report to the local police station every 5 years with their Alien Registration book, as we know. I assume that if you go through proper procedures to officially change your address, including going to the new location's police station with the Alien book, and then getting placed in a new Tabien Baan, the time ticker is reset to 0, so that you next have to report in 5 years from the time you last visited the new local police station.

 

Correct?

 

From what I recall change of address and 5 year endorsements are separate things. I changed address a few months before the 5 years were up and they offered to do the endorsement ahead of time. If you want to reset it, you can ask if they can. Otherwise you get it done after 5 years regardless of change of address.

[FarangRimPing]

12 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

From what I recall change of address and 5 year endorsements are separate things. I changed address a few months before the 5 years were up and they offered to do the endorsement ahead of time. If you want to reset it, you can ask if they can. Otherwise you get it done after 5 years regardless of change of address.

thank you.

[roulax]

Hi everyone,

 

Does anybody have the typical tests that have to be performed at the hospital for the PR?

Is there any document that you can give to the hospital registration desk so that they know exactly what has to be done during the health check?

 

Thank you

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, roulax said:

Does anybody have the typical tests that have to be performed at the hospital for the PR?

This is medical certificate for PR listed on the immgration website. https://www.immigration.go.th/pdf/form_doctor_certify.pdf

Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/permanent_resident_in_the_kingdom

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, roulax said:

Hi everyone,

 

Does anybody have the typical tests that have to be performed at the hospital for the PR?

Is there any document that you can give to the hospital registration desk so that they know exactly what has to be done during the health check?

 

Thank you

 

Take the form linked by Joe to a government hospital and get a certificate to show that you are free of the diseases listed on the form that are commonly found in expat professionals eligible for PR, viz Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Drug Addion, Alcoholism, elephantiasis and Tertiary Syphilis.

 

The doctor at the government hospital I chose for this service, Lertsin Hospital on Silom Road, was very thorough in checking me for these diseases.  He asked, "You feeling OK today?"  I replied, "Yes", and with that confirmation of good health he ticked the boxes that said I was free of all the diseases except for Tertiary Syphilis.  He told me to pay the fee and go and have blood taken for the Syphilis test which I thought was unfair because it cannot distinguish between Stage 1 and 2 Syphilis, which are permitted, and Stage 3 (Tertiary) which is not.  This was before they introduced the Tertiary Syphilis test for work permits, so you must have been getting tested for this every year anyway.  The whole thing cost about B500 plus B300 for the Syphilis test but may have gone up since then.    

 

[roulax]

Thanks very much to both of you for the information and help.

[onthemoon]

On 10/4/2018 at 1:44 PM, stbkk said:

I have just renewed my red police book at Klong Tan police station for another 5 years.

 

In and out in less than 15 minutes. 800 Baht. No other documents looked at (I had the full portfolio, but never even took them out of my bag), no photos needed.

 

Great job.

Just renewed mine, at Prakhanong police station. A bit late; it had expired in early October. You are allowed to come up to one week late, but I was too late. THB 400 fine (with receipt).

[ashkap]

Hi all,

I'm currently a teacher at a government school and I want to get permanent residency (eventually). I earn only 30k baht from my job but I have other incomes outside of Thailand. If I bring that money into Thailand (on a monthly basis, and be taxed for it) would it be counted to meeting the minimum salary of 80k baht? Would the foreign income clash with my work permit? 

 

[Arkady]

9 hours ago, ashkap said:

Hi all,

I'm currently a teacher at a government school and I want to get permanent residency (eventually). I earn only 30k baht from my job but I have other incomes outside of Thailand. If I bring that money into Thailand (on a monthly basis, and be taxed for it) would it be counted to meeting the minimum salary of 80k baht? Would the foreign income clash with my work permit? 

 

Unfortunately not. They want to see income from salary from a job in Thailand.  They have no interest in income from overseas.  So there is no point in paying Thai tax on it. 

 

Should you have a Thai wife, assuming you are male, the bar is lower.  You need a salary of B40k a month.  If you are female and have a Thai husband, the bar is lower still. You don't need any income but hubby needs, I think, B30k a month.

[Badb0y]

Can I read the requirements somewhere in English? What us the reqs as of 2018? Still have to pay the ~200k?

 

I’m interested how I can get it on a lower price :D

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Badb0y said:

Can I read the requirements somewhere in English? What us the reqs as of 2018? Still have to pay the ~200k?

I’m interested how I can get it on a lower price ????

The application fee for permanent residency is 7600 baht.

After it is approved the fee for a residence certificate is 191,400 Baht. If married to a Thai or the parent of a Thai it is 95,700 baht.

Info about the requirements are here http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence  and also https://www.immigration.go.th/content/permanent_resident_in_the_kingdom 

 

[beeper]

I got my PR in 2017 and am now planning to buy a condo. I have inquired with more than 6 banks, that our developer has partnered with and who offer special conditions for people buying in this condo project. 

 

Only UOB and Kasikorn offer mortgage to PR holders. UOB offers same conditions as to Thai citizens (same 90% and same Interest), K Bank only offered 50% and maximum 8 year duration for PR holders, very different than for Thai's).

We are trying with UOB and have submitted the paperwork.

  

All other banks stated they do not loan to PR holders after being explained in Thai PR concept and having consulted with the head office  

 

In salary, credit history and job stability I meet criteria of each bank 

 

Has anybody been able to actually get a loan being PR? 

 

Appreciate info on what bank have given PR holder a mortgage loan recently and your experience.

Thanks