Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skippybangkok]

I just registered with my ID this morning using Thanachart's mobile app. No problem at all. As soon as I selected "national ID" my ID (which Thanachart already had in connection with fixed deposit accounts) popped up automatically. There was a scary "Consent request to pay" option, which I left OFF. Maybe that is to allow something like direct debit of Prakan Sangkom payments, but better safe than sorry.

 

I tried sending a 100 baht to this new PromptPay account half an hour later and it went through just fine.

 

I suspect banks that don't allow this just can't be bothered deviating from their default procedures. Or perhaps your Thai ID must be on file with them first, as a Thai ID would be for all Thais with a bank account. I don't think Kasikorn has my Thai ID as it's an old account. On the other hand, they did tell me foreigners couldn't use a Thai ID.

 

 

From memory you get a Thai ID number after PR... can be used for most things - mine starts with an 8

 

 

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[SteveB2]

On 1/24/2018 at 11:35 AM, KevT said:

Regarding the PR points system, I'm guessing it hasn't been divulged at all like the one for citizenship (or maybe it will never be). However, with Steve's points of years having worked in Thailand, marriage, kids, master's/higher education, fluent/read/write in Thai—have those been confirmed (i.e., proof) of being part of the undisclosed PR point system? 

 

The application processes for Thai citizenship and Permanent Residency are now so similar, that the Thai citizenship points scoring system is a good place to start and from what I remember glancing over the pages of the PR scoring system booklet put in front of me, it appears to be almost identical.

 

The Thai Citizenship scoring system is given below:-

Quoting Arkady

 

  Quote

OK. Here is the outline of the new points system.

March 2010

1 Age & Education 25

1.1 Age 10

1.2 Educational Level 15

2 Security of Profession 25

3 Residence in Thailand 20

4 Knowledge of Thai Language 15

5 General Knowledge about Thailand 10

6 Personality 5

Total 100

Before March 2010

1 Age & Education 25

1.1 Age 15

1.2 Educational Level 10

2 Security of Profession 35

2.1 Income 10

2.2 Tax Payments 25

3 Residence in Thailand 10

4 Relationships with Thailand & Thai People 10

5 Knowledge of Thai Language 10

6 Personality 10

Total 100

What has changed?

1. points for residency have increased from 10 to 20. A perfect 20 requires 10 years with all PR documents. 5 years with a tabien baan but without PR gets you the minimum of 5 points. 10 points for 5 years with PR and 15 points for 7 years with PR. (Nil for time with only non-imm visa and work permit.) I am not sure yet whether a yellow tabien baan counts here. I have a feeling that the previous guidelines specified a Thor Ror 14 (blue tabien baan) in another part of the text but I haven’t checked through the whole 34 pages yet.

2. points for Thai language have been increased from 10 to 15 and now include points for ability to read and write. You get 8 points for being able to speak and understand Thai, 2 points for being able to sing the National and Royal Anthems, 2 points for being able to read Thai and 3 points for being able to write it. Previously there were 5 points for speaking and understanding Thai and another 5 for being able to sing the two anthems.

4. points for age and education are unchanged at 25 but the emphasis has been reversed so that 15 points are awarded for education and 10 for age, while it was previously the other way round. You now get the maximum of 10 points for being aged 41 to 50, 8 for being 51 to 60, 5 for being over 60 or 31 to 40 and 2 for being 20 to 30. Education points are now: up to Mor 6 or Por Wor Chor 3 points; equivalent to Higher National Diploma or Junior College 5 points; Bachelors Degree 8 points; Masters Degree 10 points; Doctoral Degree 15 points.

5. Security of profession has been reduced from 35 to 25 points and it is now based on either monthly salary or tax paid, whereas there were previously 10 points for salary and 25 for tax paid. Max 25 points are awarded for salaries over B100k for those with no relationship with Thailand and B60k for those with Thai wives or children and graduates of Thai universities. Minimum 15 points are awarded for a salary of 80k for those with no relationship with Thailand and B40k for those who have one.

6. The 10 points for relationship with Thai people have been eliminated. 5 points used to be awarded for working in Thailand which was superfluous, since all applicants must have a job. There used to be another 3 points for having a Thai wife and 2 more for one or more Thai children. On the other hand salary requirements are still lower for those with Thai family and I think the numbers on this are unchanged.

7. The personality points have been reduced from 10 to 5. I think these are awarded after the interview with the head of the Special Branch Naturalization Office.

In conclusion it looks as if the ministry is trying to eliminate a lot of the points that most applicants could get by falling off a log and have put more emphasis on knowledge of the Thai language and Thailand and the all important permanent residency. Needless to say the test on general knowledge of Thailand is conducted in Thai and would need a pretty good knowledge of Thai. Most countries require a fairly lengthy period of residence and knowledge of the language and culture for citizenship and it is hard to fault them for these changes, although some might argue that it has become harder to accumulate the points for years of PR, since the logjam appeared in the processing of PR applications. However, I think that has to be considered as a separate and hopefully temporary issue. Probably the final pieces are falling or have fallen into place to implement the exemptions given to applicants with Thai wives in the 2008 Nationality Act. Certainly those with Thai wives are already able to opt not to sing the anthems which are now only worth 2 points anyway but it looks as if it would be a struggle for someone without PR, poor Thai and no PhD to get the minimum 50 points required. If you include the general knowledge test and the personality interview, there are now 30 points that depend on Thai language skills. Thus some one with a Thai wife but no PR, no Thai and no PhD could not score more than 45 points. However, good Thai language skills could theoretically carry some one without PR through and it is my guess that is the way they have decided to play it and who could blame them, even though knowledge of Thai is no longer required by the Nationality Act for those with Thai wives. The new requirement for the embassy certified declaration of intention to renounce existing nationality, if approved for Thai nationality, has already been discussed in this thread although it still remains unclear to me how the ministry intends to implement this. More may be revealed in the body of the text when I get round to reading it.

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

 

 

From memory you get a Thai ID number after PR... can be used for most things - mine starts with an 8

 

 

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Right.  All aliens who get PR and/or citizenship get the 8- prefix.

[SteveB2]

Here's the link to the Thai Citizenship points scoring system

It should go without saying that things can change without notice, and that every Thai official can ask for additional supporting documentation to support your application.

 

Thai Nationality Application eng.pdf

[KevT]

Good to know. Thanks, @SteveB2.

[Zam]

Hello Seniors,

 

For Thai citizenship is singing the national anthem a prerequisite to approval.

 

I see that if one can speak and understand Thai well this should not have any impact right???

 

Finally does it require 5 years post PR to apply or can we do this earlier.

 

Advise much appreciated.

 

 

[Mattd]

8 hours ago, Zam said:

Hello Seniors,

 

For Thai citizenship is singing the national anthem a prerequisite to approval.

 

I see that if one can speak and understand Thai well this should not have any impact right???

 

Finally does it require 5 years post PR to apply or can we do this earlier.

 

Advise much appreciated.

 

 

Everything is contained within to answer your questions.

[Michael Hare]

Back in August last year I wrote about the rush for our accountancy firm here in Ubon Ratchathani to submit all our documents to extent my work permit which had an anniversary date of February 10.  The documents includes a full set of our company accounts for the previous year (Jan-Dec 2017), company tax paid in full for 2017, my tax for that year, 2017, paid in full. In addition, the usual health check, photographs of our company employees (my wife and I own the company with nine employees), company registration documents, photocopies of all pages in my passport and certificate of residence blue book showing reentry stamps and visas for overseas countries and other up-to-date export documents. (Our company exports grass seeds to over 20 countries). 

 

Yesterday the accountancy firm got my work permit extended for 18 months, moving my anniversary date to July 31st of each year starting in July 2019. This pleases both the accountancy firm and myself. 

 

I asked the accountancy firm why it was necessary to have all this paper work to extent my work permit. The firm said that it seemed to be the requirements in the Ubon Ratchathani Labour office. In Bangkok their accountancy branch there which does the books for several companies that employ expats, could extent work permits easily without showing the taxation payments at the same time. These could be submitted later. 

 

 

[skyaslimit]

Labour department's rules differs from city to city and office to office. Amazing isn't it?

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[Arkady]

2 hours ago, skyaslimit said:

Labour department's rules differs from city to city and office to office. Amazing isn't it?

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It never ceases to amaze me that Thailand has one of the most centralised governments in the world and yet there is no consistency in how different offices of the same ministry apply the same laws from place to place. This happens in other ministries too.  It would make more sense, if it were a federal system or if provinces had autonomy to make their own laws.  Since there is only one law, everyone throughout the country should be treated fairly and consistently under it.

[Zam]

[/url] Everything is contained within to answer your questions.

Thanks very much.


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[Zam]

Hello Seniors,
A question if a PR holder is involved in a accident where in they were in a wrong lane and hit a motorbike would that impact the person from getting his citizenship.

Is it a criminal case even though one wants to pay compensation fair and the victims claims more so they go to court for a fair settlement.


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[FarangRimPing]

Every year, I need to go to Immigration with a TM13 (ENDORSEMENT OF RE-ENTRY PERMIT) and  TM22 (APPLICATION FOR NON-QUOTA IMMIGRANT VISA).  

 

I remember that somewhere on this forum, someone said that if a PR holder doesn't intend to leave the country, the only requirement is that they report to the local police station every 5 years. They don't even have to hold a passport of their home country any longer. Is this true?

 

If true, why do I need to do a TM22 every year?

 

Thanks in advance for helping me understand the rules. This forum is very helpful.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, FarangRimPing said:

I remember that somewhere on this forum, someone said that if a PR holder doesn't intend to leave the country, the only requirement is that they report to the local police station every 5 years. They don't even have to hold a passport of their home country any longer. Is this true?

 

That is correct.

5 minutes ago, FarangRimPing said:

If true, why do I need to do a TM22 every year?

You don't have to get a visa and re-entry endorsement every year unless you want to travel.  Some people get them every year incase they had to make a unplanned trip during the year.

[FarangRimPing]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is correct.

You don't have to get a visa and re-entry endorsement every year unless you want to travel.  Some people get them every year incase they had to make a unplanned trip during the year.

Thank you. The implication is that if I want a re-entry permit (TM13), I also need to get the visa (TM22).

 

You always provide useful information, ubonjoe.

[Michael Hare]

PR holders should still hold the passport of their country in case they have to leave Thailand. Also, in many cases, when dealing with local government officals, getting a drivers licence, or opening a bank account, the officials there insist on seeing one's passport. Often they just do not understand permanent resident status. 

 

As Ubonjoe states above, it is not necessary to get a reentry permit every year if you have no plans to leave Thailand. In the past, I have gone years without leaving Thailand and in those years never once gone to immigration. 

 

You got me there with those terms TM13 and TM22. I just hand over my documents (passport, blue book and red book) and ask for a reentry permit (these days a multiple)  and everything is entered by the police officer on duty, No forms to fill out whatsoever. They take a photo. Pay out 5,700 baht for multiple reentry, get a receipt and that's it. 

[Arkady]

On 2/13/2018 at 12:58 PM, Zam said:

Hello Seniors,
A question if a PR holder is involved in a accident where in they were in a wrong lane and hit a motorbike would that impact the person from getting his citizenship.

Is it a criminal case even though one wants to pay compensation fair and the victims claims more so they go to court for a fair settlement.


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Probably not. Although the guidelines say that applicants need to be free of criminal record, this is not explicitly defined and may be interpreted as not having a criminal record involving a prison sentence or such like. When I applied, I asked Special Branch, if I would be disqualified, if I committed a traffic violation, resulting in a criminal record, such as drunk driving or similar, during the application process and they said no without enlarging on it.

 

As always, your best course of action is to go along and ask SB about your situation. Take along all your docs, passport, PR books, tabien baan, WP, as they always like to see those to give you an assessment of your eligibility.  

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That is correct.

You don't have to get a visa and re-entry endorsement every year unless you want to travel.  Some people get them every year incase they had to make a unplanned trip during the year.

 

A great way to stump people who want to see your visa and last entry into Thailand is to go without renewing your endorsements beyond a year, e.g. banks when applying for a credit card.  They will usually not understand what PR is, no matter how many times you explain, and will keep on asking for your valid visa.   

[skippybangkok]

 
A great way to stump people who want to see your visa and last entry into Thailand is to go without renewing your endorsements beyond a year, e.g. banks when applying for a credit card.  They will usually not understand what PR is, no matter how many times you explain, and will keep on asking for your valid visa.   

Yep - baffles most except govt officers ie Driver License who don’t bat an eye


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[stbkk]

3 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

 

 

 

 

Yep - baffles most except govt officers ie Driver License who don’t bat an eye


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Too true.

 

The only problem is the default result afterwards 'cannot', so its you that ends up with the problem usually!

 

I had an amusing one recently when opening a new bank account. I asked which was easier for the lady, my passport with work permit or my PR documents. Of course, she then wanted signed copies of all of them!  

[Zam]

Hi Arkady,

Thanks so much for that.

I was told that if the compensation is not agreed by the victim. It will then be a court case and so the record will show that a case was registered for accident.

In this context I asked whether it will be a impediment for citizenship.

I also was of the same opinion that criminal case is a prison sentence caused by brawls/intent etc and a accident can not define a persons eligibility simple because it was a accident.

Best Regards




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[FarangRimPing]

On 2/19/2018 at 7:57 AM, ubonjoe said:

That is correct.

You don't have to get a visa and re-entry endorsement every year unless you want to travel.  Some people get them every year incase they had to make a unplanned trip during the year.

One more question. I've always applied for the re-entry permit at Chaeng Wattana. Can I do it at any Immigration office? Do they have the Immigrant Visa stamp?

[samran]

On 19/02/2018 at 9:06 AM, Arkady said:

 

A great way to stump people who want to see your visa and last entry into Thailand is to go without renewing your endorsements beyond a year, e.g. banks when applying for a credit card.  They will usually not understand what PR is, no matter how many times you explain, and will keep on asking for your valid visa.   

We approached UOB for a question about home loans last year. My wife presented her Thai ID and house registration.

 

They asked her if she had a visa and work permit to go with that. 

 

You cant make this stuff up. 

[ubonjoe]

13 hours ago, FarangRimPing said:

One more question. I've always applied for the re-entry permit at Chaeng Wattana. Can I do it at any Immigration office? Do they have the Immigrant Visa stamp?

Any office should be able to do it. I would guess though there are many that would not have a clue as to what you want.

Go to your local office next time you need it done and ask.

[beeper]

I am at SUV and as PR holder tried to get signed up to use the electronic gates at immigration. It used to work on my previous passport. Now with the new generation German passport immigration told me their E gate system does not recognize and cannot read passport so they cannot set me up to use E gate.vi have to wait for new version of SW being loaded. Until then have to use normal channel. Anybody has any experience with this ?


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[FarangRimPing]

Now for another question, this time regarding checking into a hotel.

 

When checking in, Thai citizens need to present their ID. Foreigners their passport so that it can be reported to immigration.

 

Do the hotels need to report the PR holders to Immigration? Can PR holders present the Blue book or Red book instead of passport? Usually, my Thailand Driver's license is good enough but on occasion, the hotel has said that they need my passport but will accept the Driver's License on an exception basis. (My new Driver's License has by Thai ID on it but my old one had my passport number on it.)

 

Thanks. (I could not find the answer doing a search.)

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, FarangRimPing said:

Do the hotels need to report the PR holders to Immigration?

No they don't. It is only required for those with those on a temporary permit to stay.

Show you blue book to prove your are a permanent resident.

[onthemoon]

43 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No they don't. It is only required for those with those on a temporary permit to stay.

Show you blue book to prove your are a permanent resident.

It's easier to carry the pink ID card around instead.

[onthemoon]

19 hours ago, beeper said:

I am at SUV and as PR holder tried to get signed up to use the electronic gates at immigration. It used to work on my previous passport. Now with the new generation German passport immigration told me their E gate system does not recognize and cannot read passport so they cannot set me up to use E gate.vi have to wait for new version of SW being loaded. Until then have to use normal channel. Anybody has any experience with this ?

No, but that would be bad news. Good to hear that they are already working on the new software.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

It's easier to carry the pink ID card around instead.

Theoretically you should present your alien book, since that is your official ID in Thailand makes it very clear you are a PR and not liable to police reporting.  I took mine on a trip where I stayed at several hotels and got 100% rejection rate.  Mrs Arkady was getting rather irritated with me by the time we checked into the last hotel.