Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[sas_cars]

I got my PR in 2017 and am now planning to buy a condo. I have inquired with more than 6 banks, that our developer has partnered with and who offer special conditions for people buying in this condo project. 
 
Only UOB and Kasikorn offer mortgage to PR holders. UOB offers same conditions as to Thai citizens (same 90% and same Interest), K Bank only offered 50% and maximum 8 year duration for PR holders, very different than for Thai's).
We are trying with UOB and have submitted the paperwork.
  
All other banks stated they do not loan to PR holders after being explained in Thai PR concept and having consulted with the head office  
 
In salary, credit history and job stability I meet criteria of each bank 
 
Has anybody been able to actually get a loan being PR? 
 
Appreciate info on what bank have given PR holder a mortgage loan recently and your experience.
Thanks   
    

I am also a PR and the reality is that, general thai people and institutions don't really understand a PR. For them you are either a foreigner or a thai. There is no path in between for them which we PR holders are. I am not surprised by your experience. It's infact surprising that you actually able to find 2 thai banks who are willing to service you. Don't hold your breath getting any other banks willing to serve your loan needs.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[thedemon]

24 minutes ago, beeper said:

I got my PR in 2017 and am now planning to buy a condo. I have inquired with more than 6 banks, that our developer has partnered with and who offer special conditions for people buying in this condo project. 

 

Only UOB and Kasikorn offer mortgage to PR holders. UOB offers same conditions as to Thai citizens (same 90% and same Interest), K Bank only offered 50% and maximum 8 year duration for PR holders, very different than for Thai's).

We are trying with UOB and have submitted the paperwork.

  

All other banks stated they do not loan to PR holders after being explained in Thai PR concept and having consulted with the head office  

 

In salary, credit history and job stability I meet criteria of each bank 

 

Has anybody been able to actually get a loan being PR? 

 

Appreciate info on what bank have given PR holder a mortgage loan recently and your experience.

Thanks   

    

 

Hi Beeper,

 

In 2013 I bought 2 condos (for investment) with a mortgage from Kasikorn. All the conditions were no different than for a Thai citizen. I chose a 15 year mortgage term but I think anything up to the year I would turn 65 was acceptable and they offered a choice of interest rate packages. All the brochures, loan agreements, mandatory insurance forms etc. were only in Thai language so it was pretty obviously intended for Thai customers.

 

Where did you apply? At your local branch, or?

 

One thing you might try is to go into a larger branch and show interest in a decent sized life insurance package to go together with your intended mortgage. At least at KBank even the counter staff stand to earn quite hefty commissions from selling life policies. This might get them interested in helping you with your mortgage. Later on, after the mortgage has been approved at head office level, you can downsize the insurance. 

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, beeper said:

I got my PR in 2017 and am now planning to buy a condo. I have inquired with more than 6 banks, that our developer has partnered with and who offer special conditions for people buying in this condo project. 

 

Only UOB and Kasikorn offer mortgage to PR holders. UOB offers same conditions as to Thai citizens (same 90% and same Interest), K Bank only offered 50% and maximum 8 year duration for PR holders, very different than for Thai's).

We are trying with UOB and have submitted the paperwork.

  

All other banks stated they do not loan to PR holders after being explained in Thai PR concept and having consulted with the head office  

 

In salary, credit history and job stability I meet criteria of each bank 

 

Has anybody been able to actually get a loan being PR? 

 

Appreciate info on what bank have given PR holder a mortgage loan recently and your experience.

Thanks   

    

I got a housing loan / mortgage from Bangkok Bank about 4 or 5 years ago. All conditions were the same as for Thai people. In fact, they asked for the pink card, but I didn't have it yet at that time. They accepted the myriad of books instead (even though it is a lot more paper to copy and process). They way I understand it, my branch passed the paperwork to HQ who made the final approval, so this should work for all BBL branches.

 

Before going to Bangkok Bank, I had asked at SCB but they flatly refused.

[beeper]

 
Hi Beeper,
 
In 2013 I bought 2 condos (for investment) with a mortgage from Kasikorn. All the conditions were no different than for a Thai citizen. I chose a 15 year mortgage term but I think anything up to the year I would turn 65 was acceptable and they offered a choice of interest rate packages. All the brochures, loan agreements, mandatory insurance forms etc. were only in Thai language so it was pretty obviously intended for Thai customers.
 
Where did you apply? At your local branch, or?
 
One thing you might try is to go into a larger branch and show interest in a decent sized life insurance package to go together with your intended mortgage. At least at KBank even the counter staff stand to earn quite hefty commissions from selling life policies. This might get them interested in helping you with your mortgage. Later on, after the mortgage has been approved at head office level, you can downsize the insurance. 

I applied at the bank fair organized by the condo developer in Chiang Rai. Will try with KB and BB in Bkk as well.

Thanks for the tip on the life insurance.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[beeper]

I got a housing loan / mortgage from Bangkok Bank about 4 or 5 years ago. All conditions were the same as for Thai people. In fact, they asked for the pink card, but I didn't have it yet at that time. They accepted the myriad of books instead (even though it is a lot more paper to copy and process). They way I understand it, my branch passed the paperwork to HQ who made the final approval, so this should work for all BBL branches.
 
Before going to Bangkok Bank, I had asked at SCB but they flatly refused.

Hi given they asked for pink ID, did you get the feeling it made a difference applying in your jangwat where your pink ID is from?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, beeper said:

Hi given they asked for pink ID, did you get the feeling it made a difference applying in your jangwat where your pink ID is from?

 

I live in Bangkok, and I applied in Bangkok. That may make everything easier. The condo is in Pattaya, though.

[mortenaa]

18 hours ago, beeper said:

I got my PR in 2017 and am now planning to buy a condo. I have inquired with more than 6 banks, that our developer has partnered with and who offer special conditions for people buying in this condo project. 

 

Only UOB and Kasikorn offer mortgage to PR holders. UOB offers same conditions as to Thai citizens (same 90% and same Interest), K Bank only offered 50% and maximum 8 year duration for PR holders, very different than for Thai's).

We are trying with UOB and have submitted the paperwork.

  

All other banks stated they do not loan to PR holders after being explained in Thai PR concept and having consulted with the head office  

 

In salary, credit history and job stability I meet criteria of each bank 

 

Has anybody been able to actually get a loan being PR? 

 

Appreciate info on what bank have given PR holder a mortgage loan recently and your experience.

Thanks   

    

I got a loan with UOW without beeing PR, so should definitely be easier with PR ;)

[Pokati]

Hi, 

 

So the last 2 months I was able to collect all the required documents. 

 

Since I'm applying in the marriage category one of the requirements is:

 

'Copy of the family status certificate e.g. marriage certificate or marriage registration and Kor.Ror.2 within the previous 3 months prior to the
application submission date, birth certificate, child legitimation registration certificate. The documents which are issued by foreign organizations 
must be officially certified as the document in # 3. If the registration is made in Thailand, it must be certified by the concerned organization'

 

I have the kor ror 2 and today I received my birth certificate in the mail.

 

However the certificate is not a legalized document. I'm having an appointment at my embassy tomorrow, but I think they can't help me legalize it (legalisation have to be done in my country).

 

Do you think providing the non-legalised (translated) birth certificate would be a problem? 

 

All my other documents I had legalised. 

 

Thanks in advance 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Pokati

[Pokati]

13 hours ago, Pokati said:

Hi, 

 

So the last 2 months I was able to collect all the required documents. 

 

Since I'm applying in the marriage category one of the requirements is:

 

'Copy of the family status certificate e.g. marriage certificate or marriage registration and Kor.Ror.2 within the previous 3 months prior to the
application submission date, birth certificate, child legitimation registration certificate. The documents which are issued by foreign organizations 
must be officially certified as the document in # 3. If the registration is made in Thailand, it must be certified by the concerned organization'

 

I have the kor ror 2 and today I received my birth certificate in the mail.

 

However the certificate is not a legalized document. I'm having an appointment at my embassy tomorrow, but I think they can't help me legalize it (legalisation have to be done in my country).

 

Do you think providing the non-legalised (translated) birth certificate would be a problem? 

 

All my other documents I had legalised. 

 

Thanks in advance 

Ok, just found out the English translation of the application documents provided by immigration is not clear. It says Birth certificate, but means birth certificate from children. Which I don't have. 

 

Thai version :

 

4. ส ำเนำเอกสำรรับรองกำรเป็ นครอบครัว ได้แก่ ใบส ำคัญกำรสมรส, ทะเบียนสมรส (ค.ร.2) ที่มีอำยุไม่เกิน 3 เดือน, ใบสูติบัตรบุตร, 
 เอกสำรกำรจดทะเบียนรับรองบุตร เป็ นต้น ซึ่งหำกเป็ นเอกสำรต่ำงประเทศ ให้ผ่ำนกำรรับรองเอกสำรเช่นเดียวกับ ข้อ 3. 
 และหำกเป็ นกำรจดทะเบียนในประเทศไทย ให้หน่วยงำนนั ้น ๆ รับรองส ำเนำ

 

So apart from translations, I'm done

 

[scorecard]

On 11/13/2018 at 1:28 PM, mortenaa said:

I got a loan with UOW without beeing PR, so should definitely be easier with PR ;)

Some years back my Thai son approached UOB for a house mortgage when he was still a uni student with a very small income.

 

The local UOB manager (who we knew quite well) said yes, but there must be an acceptable guarantor and he made a proposal to their HO in Bkk to accept me as the guarantor, a person holding Thai PR. Their HO agreed.

[scorecard]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:49 PM, sas_cars said:

I am also a PR and the reality is that, general thai people and institutions don't really understand a PR. For them you are either a foreigner or a thai. There is no path in between for them which we PR holders are. I am not surprised by your experience. It's infact surprising that you actually able to find 2 thai banks who are willing to service you. Don't hold your breath getting any other banks willing to serve your loan needs.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Agree with that, I've had Thai PR more than 2 decades, had several instances, gov't offices, banks and police etc., where it was clear they didn't know what PR was and they had never before seen a Certificate of Residence (PR) book.

- My Thai adult son went to the Land Transport office in Bkk with all the required documents to transfer ownership  of a family car from my name to his name, and he took all the original documents. The lady officer at DLT insisted that there is no such thing as PR and insisted that my PR book was a fake and she motioned that she would rip it up. My son quickly snatched the book out of her hands and fled. Next visit a few days later different officer and all processed easily and quickly.

- K bank at Airport Plaza in Chiang Mai. Older counter service staff man insisted there is no such thing as PR and refused to even look at my PR book, red Police book and the family normal Tabien Ban book. He insisted none of this is possible, go away. He stood up and went to another room, the young K bank officer at the next desk politely said he goes to lunch at xxx, please come back then and I will open the new account you want and do it quickly. We waited for the lunch period, maybe 30 minutes, went back, all done efficiently, politely and quickly.

- At the toll gate on Rama 4 road where you enter the overhead tollway to Chonburi, policeman stepped out and insisted I had ignored the red light. My adult Thai son said 'how come other cars are still entering from Rama 4 road'. He didn't reply and asked for my passport, but my son quickly gave him my PR book, he didn't know what it was and called a more senior cop. The senior came, looked at the book and said to my son something about 'from embassy'. Then asked 'do you want an escort to Chonburi?' My son politely said 'no no not necessary but thank you'. We were waved on with several cops saluting. 

 

 

[Pokati]

So I went to translate and legalize my diploma and criminal record the other day. I had both of them legalized in my home country. However the translation office said that my documents after the legalization in my home country, should have been translated to English first, then stamped by the Thai embassy, then translated to Thai and legalized by Ministry of Foreign affairs in Bangkok. I've sent them an email about this and this was their response:

 

'Actually the document in other than English language needs to be translated into English and gets approval from authority in your country i.e. consular section, ministry of foreign affairs in your country.   Then bring such English translation and get approval from Thai embassy in your country.   

 

Then, with that approved English version, we can translated into Thai and gets approval from Thai ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok.'

 

I don't really understand the 'translate to English and approval by Thai embassy step. I called with the ministry last Friday and the person I spoke to said I can just translate to Thai and legalize it. But I'm not sure if it was the right person to ask this question.

 

Anyone has experience with this?

 

Thanks

Edited November 18, 2018 by Pokati

[jelu77]

I had to translate my criminal record from English to Thai and get it legalized by Ministry of Foreign affairs.

[Pokati]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:23 AM, jelu77 said:

I had to translate my criminal record from English to Thai and get it legalized by Ministry of Foreign affairs.

Did you have it legalized by thai embassy in your home country first? 

 

I was told this is a mandatory step when I called the ministry. Not sure if info is correct though

[Arkady]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:23 AM, jelu77 said:

I had to translate my criminal record from English to Thai and get it legalized by Ministry of Foreign affairs.

I think that the MoFA will not normally legalise a translation of an official document from a foreign country, unless it has been legalised by a Thai embassy or consulate in that country first.  They do legalise translations of documents produced by foreign embassies and consulates in Thailand though.   They have all the signatures of foreign consular staff who are authorised signatories, so they can verify their signatures.

[Pokati]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

I think that the MoFA will not normally legalise a translation of an official document from a foreign country, unless it has been legalised by a Thai embassy or consulate in that country first.  They do legalise translations of documents produced by foreign embassies and consulates in Thailand though.   They have all the signatures of foreign consular staff who are authorised signatories, so they can verify their signatures.

Thanks @Arkady

 

Monday I'll send the documents in the mail to my family. 

 

Luckily I still have time.

[jelu77]

On 11/24/2018 at 10:10 AM, Pokati said:

Did you have it legalized by thai embassy in your home country first? 

 

I was told this is a mandatory step when I called the ministry. Not sure if info is correct though

To my recollection I had to get it certified by my Embassy first, prior translation.

[roulax]

I confirm that this is the correct process:

 

- Get official document from your country

- Get it translated in thai by recognized/certified translator from your embassy

- Get the thai translation certified by your embassy

- Get it certified by MoFA

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, roulax said:

I confirm that this is the correct process:

 

- Get official document from your country

- Get it translated in thai by recognized/certified translator from your embassy

- Get the thai translation certified by your embassy

- Get it certified by MoFA

 

Here are MoFA's regulations for legalisation of translations http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/19849-การรับรองเอกสาร-(Legalization-Service).html . Rather unhelpfully they don't feature on the English version of the website which is just a shell with very little useful information .  It seems that official documents from overseas need to be legalised either by a Thai embassy in the country of origin or by that country's embassy in Thailand.  

 

The snag for Brits and other nationalities whose embassies have effectively ceased to exist, as far as their locally based citizens are concerned, is that, of course, your embassy refuses to provide this service for you. Therefore the Thai embassy in London is your only option, for as long as they are still willing to do it.  MoFA's regulations require that the foreign document should be notarised by a notary public or equivalent before being submitted to the Thai embassy. An acceptable equivalent is the British government's apostile service which provides apostiles (notarisations accepted under the international convention for legalisations of documents) for things like birth certificates.

[roulax]

Hi everyone,

 

just sharing my experience on applying for PR as I was in Chaeng Wattana this morning.

 

My application was not accepted as there were some missing stamps/certifications on revenue slips, and my criminal record was more than 3 months old (although the translation and certification by my embassy and MoFA was done last month...)

i still have until the 28th December if I still wish to apply.

 

my personal situation: I am here working in nonB extensions since 2009, working for a thai company. Just married with Thai last August although we’ve been together for 6 years and we have 2 kids.

I speak thai proficiently at work and we talk in thai at home with my wife.

 

It took me a long time to study and make sure of the documents required, thanks to this site and also another friend who applied recently sharing his experience.

 

Most critical document is the criminal record, that has to be translated by an official translator recognized by your embassy , then certified by ur embassy and then by the MoFA. This took me around 3 weeks as I do not live in BKK.

 

Other tax receipts were all provided by my payroll officer in the company.

 

Other documents were not so difficult to get or prepare.

 

arriving at Chaeng Wattana alone and went to the counter to get a queue ticket, Counter D specifically for resident permit application was empty and I got in within 2 minutes .

 

immigration officer saw me alone and started talking in Thai directly. All the discussion was done in thai but I am not sure that this is a requirement or not.

anybow she asked me in which category I wanted to apply , I said i think i fulfill both work or family criteria but she told that my wife should be here if I want to apply on family criteria.

She went through all documents, and all my tax documents needed to be manually certified by revenue officer. 

Actually my tax receipts were digitally signed by the Revenue department and transmitted to my company , but anyhow not accepted.

 

Second surprise: as she checked the wedding registration (ใบทะเบียนสมรส) she said that I can’t normally apply on family criteria since we are married for less than 2 years.

 

Third surprise was the criminal record that i required and received in June, translated and certified in November but still she said that it needed to be less than 3 months.

 

the discussion ended quite quickly, the officer was very strict and not really helpful I would say, but this is probably my feeling after all that work I had done alone to get prepared for it.

 

as of today I am not sure I will complete my application, especially if I have to apply on the work criteria as cost is double.

 

my recommendation is to get really well prepared, come with a thai person to help for the speaking if you are not good enough.

unfortunately in that case, I heard many stories that you had to bribe to compensate your lack of language skills.

 

hope that this was and will be helpful to any of you wishing to apply.

[orientalist]

Well, that's depressing. Things were much easier in the 00s. I remember I knew about the 3-month rule for the criminal record but I didn't know how long this would take in my home country, so I actually called the related police agency a couple of times. In the end it took them 3 weeks to process rather than the 2 months I had planned for.

 

I vaguely recall that the fingerprint card I had done here didn't name the specific fingers and I was worried that Thailand might print the fingers in a different order from other countries. So I ended up finding out the official name for each finger and printing it on the card!

 

When I came to pay the full fee (as I was single) I asked the official if I could get a refund by marrying at a later date. She said, "No, and you'll probably be out of pocket 1 million baht for sin sot."

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, roulax said:

Hi everyone,

 

just sharing my experience on applying for PR as I was in Chaeng Wattana this morning.

 

My application was not accepted as there were some missing stamps/certifications on revenue slips, and my criminal record was more than 3 months old (although the translation and certification by my embassy and MoFA was done last month...)

i still have until the 28th December if I still wish to apply.

 

my personal situation: I am here working in nonB extensions since 2009, working for a thai company. Just married with Thai last August although we’ve been together for 6 years and we have 2 kids.

I speak thai proficiently at work and we talk in thai at home with my wife.

 

It took me a long time to study and make sure of the documents required, thanks to this site and also another friend who applied recently sharing his experience.

 

Most critical document is the criminal record, that has to be translated by an official translator recognized by your embassy , then certified by ur embassy and then by the MoFA. This took me around 3 weeks as I do not live in BKK.

 

Other tax receipts were all provided by my payroll officer in the company.

 

Other documents were not so difficult to get or prepare.

 

arriving at Chaeng Wattana alone and went to the counter to get a queue ticket, Counter D specifically for resident permit application was empty and I got in within 2 minutes .

 

immigration officer saw me alone and started talking in Thai directly. All the discussion was done in thai but I am not sure that this is a requirement or not.

anybow she asked me in which category I wanted to apply , I said i think i fulfill both work or family criteria but she told that my wife should be here if I want to apply on family criteria.

She went through all documents, and all my tax documents needed to be manually certified by revenue officer. 

Actually my tax receipts were digitally signed by the Revenue department and transmitted to my company , but anyhow not accepted.

 

Second surprise: as she checked the wedding registration (ใบทะเบียนสมรส) she said that I can’t normally apply on family criteria since we are married for less than 2 years.

 

Third surprise was the criminal record that i required and received in June, translated and certified in November but still she said that it needed to be less than 3 months.

 

the discussion ended quite quickly, the officer was very strict and not really helpful I would say, but this is probably my feeling after all that work I had done alone to get prepared for it.

 

as of today I am not sure I will complete my application, especially if I have to apply on the work criteria as cost is double.

 

my recommendation is to get really well prepared, come with a thai person to help for the speaking if you are not good enough.

unfortunately in that case, I heard many stories that you had to bribe to compensate your lack of language skills.

 

hope that this was and will be helpful to any of you wishing to apply.

If you are prepared to wait until you qualify for the marital discount, you could also consider waiting until you have been married 3 years and apply for citizenship instead.  No home country criminal record required and the application fee is only B5,000 plus another B1,000 for the naturalisation certificate, when you are approved. Many other requirements are also less burdensome and you can apply any working day of the year.  No need to wait for a special application window to be announced.  However, I accept that some people are just not interested in applying for citizenship.  Others may have issues with their citizenship of origin that preclude applying for another one.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

[...] you could also consider waiting until you have been married 3 years and apply for citizenship instead. 

[...] No home country criminal record required 

It's only one year marriage required as they have children -and I assume: together-.

 

I was required for my home country criminal record in my application to Thai citizenship last year.

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

It's only one year marriage required as they have children -and I assume: together-.

 

I was required for my home country criminal record in my application to Thai citizenship last year.

 

 

Thanks for the corrections. The home country police clearance is relatively new for citizenship.  I didn't need it for PR either and there was no Thai language requirement for PR, which cost B52,000 all in regardless of Thai wife or not, in those days. As time goes on both processes can only get harder and harder. So no point in procrastinating.

[roulax]

Thanks for the replies, appreciate a lot the support.

I had thought about citizenship directly but unfortunately I don’t have my name on any tabien baan now as i have been renting since i arrived in 2009. Apparently the requirement  is you need 5 years of proven residency to apply for citizenship.

all others citerias i fulfill them but how to get this residency issue sorted then?

if i go to my local amphur and get a yellow tabien baan then do i need to wait for 5 years?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 minutes ago, roulax said:

Apparently the requirement  is you need 5 years of proven residency to apply for citizenship.

I don't think this is the case since 2008 when they added a category that allows married people without PR to apply to citizenship, for which there are a number of applicants who simply register themselves on a yellow book in order to apply. Arkady can perhaps confirm this but I think there is no such requirement - knowing that you already need 3 years of taxes and unbroken employment in the Kingdom to apply. 

[roulax]

Actually I asked a lawyer that helps my company about this and this is what she said.

i would be happy to know that if I can get a yellow Tabien baan now, do I need to wait for 5 years or just 1 year of wedding ?  

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, roulax said:

i would be happy to know that if I can get a yellow Tabien baan now, do I need to wait for 5 years or just 1 year of wedding ?

If you are married to a Thai you do not need wait 5 years. Only one year if you have a child from your marriage.

[roulax]

Thanks ubonjoe, and sorry that this is something i might not understand. 

The fact that you are registered on a tabien baan for 5 years or lesss does not matter as you long as you are registered , even for a few weeks/months?

In my situation i was never registered on a tabien baan for the last 9 years but planning to get a yellow one very soon. Assuming i get one yellow tabien baan this month from my local amphur, this means once my marriage is 1 year old i can then apply for citizenship? 

Sorry again for the additional questions 

[Weddings Parties Anything]

40 minutes ago, roulax said:

Thanks ubonjoe, and sorry that this is something i might not understand. 

The fact that you are registered on a tabien baan for 5 years or lesss does not matter as you long as you are registered , even for a few weeks/months?

In my situation i was never registered on a tabien baan for the last 9 years but planning to get a yellow one very soon. Assuming i get one yellow tabien baan this month from my local amphur, this means once my marriage is 1 year old i can then apply for citizenship? 

Sorry again for the additional questions 

Here's a good resource which explains most of what you are looking for:

 

http://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-for-foreigners-married-to-thai-spouse/