Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[samran]

Just read the news that the Interior Minister is gonna resign today. So surely unsigned applications will go into limbo for quite sometime yet again. Until new Interior Minster is appointed and starts working. And even then, I don't think that signing PR apps would be on top of his agenda anyways.

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

There is a new nationality act?

[Arkady]

Just read the news that the Interior Minister is gonna resign today. So surely unsigned applications will go into limbo for quite sometime yet again. Until new Interior Minster is appointed and starts working. And even then, I don't think that signing PR apps would be on top of his agenda anyways.

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

There is a new nationality act?

Yes, the Nationality Act (Version 5) of March 2012 which amends the existing 1965 Act. It deals mainly with the rights to Thai citizenship of the stateless "displaced Thais" or คนไทยพลัดถิ่น, as mentioned above, and also has some minor revisions to the committee for nationality. It's not really very significant for foreigners seeking Thai nationality but I attach the Thai version for interest nevertheless. I don't see any translations on the net yet.

Thai Nationality Act 2012 Version 5 TH.pdf

[samran]

Just read the news that the Interior Minister is gonna resign today. So surely unsigned applications will go into limbo for quite sometime yet again. Until new Interior Minster is appointed and starts working. And even then, I don't think that signing PR apps would be on top of his agenda anyways.

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

There is a new nationality act?

Yes, the Nationality Act (Version 5) of March 2012 which amends the existing 1965 Act. It deals mainly with the rights to Thai citizenship of the stateless "displaced Thais" or คนไทยพลัดถิ่น, as mentioned above, and also has some minor revisions to the committee for nationality. It's not really very significant for foreigners seeking Thai nationality but I attach the Thai version for interest nevertheless. I don't see any translations on the net yet.

Thanks for that. Seems to be some historical equity being applied. Wondering what this might mean for Thai minorities in Malaysia and Cambodia as well?

[tombkk]

Just read the news that the Interior Minister is gonna resign today. So surely unsigned applications will go into limbo for quite sometime yet again. Until new Interior Minster is appointed and starts working. And even then, I don't think that signing PR apps would be on top of his agenda anyways.

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

Wow, thanks for the gem of information in the last sentence. Quite important.

[tombkk]

I received the letter this morning. It's not archaic Thai but official language. I don't know where you're from but in Germany, the official language that is used when you receive letters from the government is also often difficult to understand for the general population. It's just the way governments communicate.

Does anybody know whether there is a photographer somewhere near the immigration office in the CW complex?

By the way, class of 2006.

Congratulations Tom.

Thanks! I'll believe it after I hold the PR book in my hands, though.

[Arkady]

Just read the news that the Interior Minister is gonna resign today. So surely unsigned applications will go into limbo for quite sometime yet again. Until new Interior Minster is appointed and starts working. And even then, I don't think that signing PR apps would be on top of his agenda anyways.

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

Wow, thanks for the gem of information in the last sentence. Quite important.

Now I am less certain, having read that the Dems still intend to pursue the case because he has not resigned as an MP. However, I expect he would also resign as an MP before it got that far. His chances of losing in the Constitutional Court would be very high, since it is clearly illegal to trade in temple land under any circumstances but I think the current owners have got clean away with it due to the statute of limitations.

[tombkk]

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

Wow, thanks for the gem of information in the last sentence. Quite important.

Now I am less certain, having read that the Dems still intend to pursue the case because he has not resigned as an MP. However, I expect he would also resign as an MP before it got that far. His chances of losing in the Constitutional Court would be very high, since it is clearly illegal to trade in temple land under any circumstances but I think the current owners have got clean away with it due to the statute of limitations.

I asked a specialist in International Law a few years ago a similar question. He said that once a PR is granted by the Minister in charge (which in Thailand happens to be the Interior Minister), it's official. If the government changes (through election, coup, or otherwise), or the Minister loses his post (for whatever reason, even if retrospectively), the signature is still valid, because that person (i.e. the Minister) had the authority to sign at that time. There is no retrospective "un-signing" in International Law. This is called "Continuity" in International Law, so that lawyer told me. He specifically said that PRs, once granted, fall under this "Continuity" thingy. Therefore I (who is not a lawyer) thinks we are safe.

[tamvine]

This must be bad news for anyone waiting for PR and probably citizenship too. Whatever else he may have done, Yongyuth put his insider knowledge gleaned from nearly 40 years at the ministry before going into politics to good use for many foreigners by breaking the logjam of PR approvals. He also seems to be have been very active approving citizenships for the Thai people who became stateless after fleeing from districts that became part of Burma after a border demarcation agreement. The new Nationality Act that recognised them as Thai only came into law this April and hundreds of them were naturalised as Thai under Yongyuth's signature last month. At least his resignation means that there will no case in the Constitutional Court which could have led to approvals signed by him being annulled.

Wow, thanks for the gem of information in the last sentence. Quite important.

Now I am less certain, having read that the Dems still intend to pursue the case because he has not resigned as an MP. However, I expect he would also resign as an MP before it got that far. His chances of losing in the Constitutional Court would be very high, since it is clearly illegal to trade in temple land under any circumstances but I think the current owners have got clean away with it due to the statute of limitations.

I asked a specialist in International Law a few years ago a similar question. He said that once a PR is granted by the Minister in charge (which in Thailand happens to be the Interior Minister), it's official. If the government changes (through election, coup, or otherwise), or the Minister loses his post (for whatever reason, even if retrospectively), the signature is still valid, because that person (i.e. the Minister) had the authority to sign at that time. There is no retrospective "un-signing" in International Law. This is called "Continuity" in International Law, so that lawyer told me. He specifically said that PRs, once granted, fall under this "Continuity" thingy. Therefore I (who is not a lawyer) thinks we are safe.

Not that I am any lawyer but I tend to agree with this statement and logic.

[sas_cars]

Just read the news that deputy interior minister has been made acting interior minister. Dunno whether he has the authority to sign our pending PR applications.

[tamvine]

Just read the news that deputy interior minister has been made acting interior minister. Dunno whether he has the authority to sign our pending PR applications.

I asked someone and per them he has the authority but will he exercise it for an issue like PR? Seems may be low on his agenda.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Just read the news that deputy interior minister has been made acting interior minister. Dunno whether he has the authority to sign our pending PR applications.

I asked someone and per them he has the authority but will he exercise it for an issue like PR? Seems may be low on his agenda.

I am a bit puzzled on the discussion around the difficulty for a Minister to sign something which by the law falls under his scope of duties. Applications which have been screened dozens of times at least, approved by various ministries/agencies/departments, just waiting for his signature. All he has to do is to take the pile of documents and start signing. I don't even seen what complain could be receivable based on the fact that he is not the one to have defined the process. His signature is probably just a stamp for which he represents the Authority, not himself as a man. So to me, if he's aware of the situation, if he's willing to sign them, if he's not instructed not to sign them, if he's keen to prioritize this, if..., if..., then... anything positive could happen soon. Or did I miss something?

[Arkady]

I asked a specialist in International Law a few years ago a similar question. He said that once a PR is granted by the Minister in charge (which in Thailand happens to be the Interior Minister), it's official. If the government changes (through election, coup, or otherwise), or the Minister loses his post (for whatever reason, even if retrospectively), the signature is still valid, because that person (i.e. the Minister) had the authority to sign at that time. There is no retrospective "un-signing" in International Law. This is called "Continuity" in International Law, so that lawyer told me. He specifically said that PRs, once granted, fall under this "Continuity" thingy. Therefore I (who is not a lawyer) thinks we are safe.

There is a basic difference between civil law (as in Thailand - its legal system is largely derived from France's civil law system) and common law as practiced in Anglo-Saxon jurisdictions. Thailand's civil law system is slavishly based on the letter of statutory laws as amended by ministerial regulations that are allowed for in the statutory laws, whereas common law is based largely on precedent formed by reasonable deliberations of judges. Thus commonly law tends to hold that a signature by someone who clearly has the authority to make a binding commitment for the organisation is binding. Thailand's civil law tend to hold that only a person who is officially designated as a signatory can make a binding commitment. You see that in the tedious rigmarole of registering signatories for companies and getting certified affidavits as proof, whereas a judge in a common law jurisdiction would in many cases rule that a manager's signature was binding, if it was reasonable to assume that he had authority to sign for that amount. My personal view is that, since the 1979 Immigration Act gives ultimate discretion to the Interior Minister alone to approve PR, an acting minister cannot lawfully sign and probably wouldn't attempt to. Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Arkady

[Mario2008]

This is of course administrative law, which has its own rules. The adminitrative court in Thailand is relatively new.

Normally a caretaker minister is authorized to sign anything, but normally he only signs things that needs to be done and leaves things that are controversial or can wait alone. PR can be considered pretty standerd, so should not be a problem to sign. But might not have much priority.

[tombkk]

I asked a specialist in International Law a few years ago a similar question. He said that once a PR is granted by the Minister in charge (which in Thailand happens to be the Interior Minister), it's official. If the government changes (through election, coup, or otherwise), or the Minister loses his post (for whatever reason, even if retrospectively), the signature is still valid, because that person (i.e. the Minister) had the authority to sign at that time. There is no retrospective "un-signing" in International Law. This is called "Continuity" in International Law, so that lawyer told me. He specifically said that PRs, once granted, fall under this "Continuity" thingy. Therefore I (who is not a lawyer) thinks we are safe.

There is a basic difference between civil law (as in Thailand - its legal system is largely derived from France's civil law system) and common law as practiced in Anglo-Saxon jurisdictions. Thailand's civil law system is slavishly based on the letter of statutory laws as amended by ministerial regulations that are allowed for in the statutory laws, whereas common law is based largely on precedent formed by reasonable deliberations of judges. Thus commonly law tends to hold that a signature by someone who clearly has the authority to make a binding commitment for the organisation is binding. Thailand's civil law tend to hold that only a person who is officially designated as a signatory can make a binding commitment. You see that in the tedious rigmarole of registering signatories for companies and getting certified affidavits as proof, whereas a judge in a common law jurisdiction would in many cases rule that a manager's signature was binding, if it was reasonable to assume that he had authority to sign for that amount. My personal view is that, since the 1979 Immigration Act gives ultimate discretion to the Interior Minister alone to approve PR, an acting minister cannot lawfully sign and probably wouldn't attempt to. Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

Agreed. What you call Civil Law, I would call Coded Law though. Invented by the French but brought to Thailand mainly by the Germans. This is as opposed to the Anglo-Saxon Common Law.

Civil Law is a term I would use as opposed to Criminal Law or Administrative Law.

But I agree with Mario2008, let's wait for a lawyer to give some input.

That said, I don't think that an Acting Minister would sign any PRs, whether or not he had the authority to.

[Arkady]

Agreed. What you call Civil Law, I would call Coded Law though. Invented by the French but brought to Thailand mainly by the Germans. This is as opposed to the Anglo-Saxon Common Law.

Civil Law is a term I would use as opposed to Criminal Law or Administrative Law.

But I agree with Mario2008, let's wait for a lawyer to give some input.

That said, I don't think that an Acting Minister would sign any PRs, whether or not he had the authority to.

Unfortunately these qualified lawyers with knowledge of Thailand's ministerial practices don't always show up just when we need them. So we'll probably just have to wait and see.

Thailand's civil and commercial and penal codes were largely based on French law but the French can't take credit for inventing the civil or codified law system. It was the Romans who did that and much of French and other European statutory law is still based on Roman law, e.g. usufruct law and family rights of inheritance, both of which concepts have passed into Thai law. I believe it was one of the princes under absolute monarchy that adapted French legal codes to form the Civil & Commercial Code and Penal Code, after studying law in France, but it is possible there was some German involvement.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Arkady

[samran]

Agreed. What you call Civil Law, I would call Coded Law though. Invented by the French but brought to Thailand mainly by the Germans. This is as opposed to the Anglo-Saxon Common Law.

Civil Law is a term I would use as opposed to Criminal Law or Administrative Law.

But I agree with Mario2008, let's wait for a lawyer to give some input.

That said, I don't think that an Acting Minister would sign any PRs, whether or not he had the authority to.

Unfortunately these qualified lawyers with knowledge of Thailand's ministerial practices don't always show up just when we need them. So we'll probably just have to wait and see.

Thailand's civil and commercial and penal codes were largely based on French law but the French can't take credit for inventing the civil or codified law system. It was the Romans who did that and much of French and other European statutory law is still based on Roman law, e.g. usufruct law and family rights of inheritance, both of which concepts have passed into Thai law. I believe it was one of the princes under absolute monarchy that adapted French legal codes to form the Civil & Commercial Code and Penal Code, after studying law in France, but it is possible there was some German involvement.

So for argument sake, could we ultimately blame these PR delays on the French and the Germans?

[tombkk]

I received my PR book last week. So, I have to go to the police station (here in Bangkok) and apply for the red Alien's Book. Does anybody know whether they issue it right away, or how long it typically takes?

Also, do I have to wait for the Alien's Book before I can get listed in the Tabienban?

I need to time this, as I am due for another overseas trip and don't want to miss the deadlines and face penalties.

[KamnanT]

I received my PR book last week. So, I have to go to the police station (here in Bangkok) and apply for the red Alien's Book. Does anybody know whether they issue it right away, or how long it typically takes?

Also, do I have to wait for the Alien's Book before I can get listed in the Tabienban?

I need to time this, as I am due for another overseas trip and don't want to miss the deadlines and face penalties.

From memory, the Klong Tan police station took about 4 days to issue my first Alien Certificate, but I should imagine it depends very much on the station and the police officer. Often there is only one officer at the station who is responsible for alien certificates and if he/she is sick, on leave or just too busy with other duties, alien certificates take a back seat.

[tombkk]

I received my PR book last week. So, I have to go to the police station (here in Bangkok) and apply for the red Alien's Book. Does anybody know whether they issue it right away, or how long it typically takes?

Also, do I have to wait for the Alien's Book before I can get listed in the Tabienban?

I need to time this, as I am due for another overseas trip and don't want to miss the deadlines and face penalties.

From memory, the Klong Tan police station took about 4 days to issue my first Alien Certificate, but I should imagine it depends very much on the station and the police officer. Often there is only one officer at the station who is responsible for alien certificates and if he/she is sick, on leave or just too busy with other duties, alien certificates take a back seat.

Thanks, that's helpful.

Do you need to bring this book to get listed in the Tabienban, or is the PR book sufficient?

[TheChiefJustice]

[ Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

I don't think this is true, Arkady. A caretaker minister after an election still has authority. My citizenship application was approved by such a minister and his power was confirmed by the attorney general.

[Arkady]

[ Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

I don't think this is true, Arkady. A caretaker minister after an election still has authority. My citizenship application was approved by such a minister and his power was confirmed by the attorney general.

In that case do you thing the acting interior minister, Chuchart, has the authority to sign, since Yongyuth now seems to be out of the picture completely?

[TheChiefJustice]

[ Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

I don't think this is true, Arkady. A caretaker minister after an election still has authority. My citizenship application was approved by such a minister and his power was confirmed by the attorney general.

In that case do you thing the acting interior minister, Chuchart, has the authority to sign, since Yongyuth now seems to be out of the picture completely?

I don't know, Arkady. I can only speak about an interior minister still in office following an election in which his government was the losing side - but before the new government has been formed. The concept of รักษาการ as it applies to ministerial duties in such a case is well established.

I have not followed what has been happening in the current situation but can see some similarities vis-a-vis the concept of รักษาการ under Thai law. I think an acting Minister does have authority but whether or not he decides to exercise it is an entirely different matter.

[Arkady]

[ Clearly ministers in caretaker mode after an election can't sign anything and I would think the same would apply but glad to be proved wrong by a real lawyer.

I don't think this is true, Arkady. A caretaker minister after an election still has authority. My citizenship application was approved by such a minister and his power was confirmed by the attorney general.

In that case do you thing the acting interior minister, Chuchart, has the authority to sign, since Yongyuth now seems to be out of the picture completely?

I don't know, Arkady. I can only speak about an interior minister still in office following an election in which his government was the losing side - but before the new government has been formed. The concept of รักษาการ as it applies to ministerial duties in such a case is well established.

I have not followed what has been happening in the current situation but can see some similarities vis-a-vis the concept of รักษาการ under Thai law. I think an acting Minister does have authority but whether or not he decides to exercise it is an entirely different matter.

Even though he is deputy minister, would it be a problem that he hasn't been sworn in as minister by the King?

But anyway, things seem to have become so murky these days that officials often claim lack of authority as an excuse not to approve things they could easily approve but don't see any immediate personal benefit in signing. Ironically Yongyuth's "original sin" in 2002 that led to this current situation is an example of the reverse, since he obviously didn't have authority to approve a title deed reinstatement in contravention of the Land Code but must have seen an immediate personal benefit.

[tamvine]

Is there any news on 2007 batch? Did anyone from 2007 batch got approvals recently? Any news from lawyers working for someone or anyone at PR section at CW?

Edited October 7, 2012 by tamvine

[thaiowl]

Yes...news of any 2007 approvals would be useful. I applied in 2007...no news yet.

[Dork]

One of the posters on this thread said that they are a 2007 applicant and already have their residence certificate. I would guess though that he/she had some kind of connection so were fast tracked ahead of the queue. I'm a 2006 and got the blue book last week. It took almost the whole day and there were only 7-8 other applicants in that days little presentation ceremony so probably the PR section at CW is just working their way through the bunch of approvals and will get to 2007 soon. They look quite busy at the moment. Must be quite a shock for them after 6 years of almost nothing to do.

[Dork]

I received my PR book last week. So, I have to go to the police station (here in Bangkok) and apply for the red Alien's Book. Does anybody know whether they issue it right away, or how long it typically takes?

Also, do I have to wait for the Alien's Book before I can get listed in the Tabienban?

I need to time this, as I am due for another overseas trip and don't want to miss the deadlines and face penalties.

From memory, the Klong Tan police station took about 4 days to issue my first Alien Certificate, but I should imagine it depends very much on the station and the police officer. Often there is only one officer at the station who is responsible for alien certificates and if he/she is sick, on leave or just too busy with other duties, alien certificates take a back seat.

Thanks, that's helpful.

Do you need to bring this book to get listed in the Tabienban, or is the PR book sufficient?

Yes you do need the red Aliens book before you can go and get the letter from your Amphur to take back to immigration. I just picked mine up this morning. I got the residence certificate last week and went straight to the police station. I think KamnanT is right that how long it takes will depend on the station. In my case there was quite a bit of confusion and initially several officers denied that the red book could be done at my station. Said they had never seen one before. Eventually got passed on to a young officer that (unfortunately for him) has that responsibility. He was very friendly and helpful but needed time because he had never done it before and there is quite a bit of paperwork involved. One of the registers I had to sign was so old that I had to sign it carefully in case the pen went right through it. I'm not kidding.

A couple of posters here have advised that you should insist on 1 year + 5 years for your red book. That is good advice because if I hadn't known that and insisted on it I would have only got one year.

Like you, I also need to travel soon so I'm hoping that the re-entry permit and endorsement can be done by immigration before completion of the Tabien Ban process but I haven't had a clear answer yet about that. Anyway I'm planning on tackling that tomorrow so I'll post here unless someone else can answer sooner.

[tamvine]

One of the posters on this thread said that they are a 2007 applicant and already have their residence certificate. I would guess though that he/she had some kind of connection so were fast tracked ahead of the queue. I'm a 2006 and got the blue book last week. It took almost the whole day and there were only 7-8 other applicants in that days little presentation ceremony so probably the PR section at CW is just working their way through the bunch of approvals and will get to 2007 soon. They look quite busy at the moment. Must be quite a shock for them after 6 years of almost nothing to do.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but again is there some sort of news that 2007 got approvals and are in Q at CW?

[Dork]

One of the posters on this thread said that they are a 2007 applicant and already have their residence certificate. I would guess though that he/she had some kind of connection so were fast tracked ahead of the queue. I'm a 2006 and got the blue book last week. It took almost the whole day and there were only 7-8 other applicants in that days little presentation ceremony so probably the PR section at CW is just working their way through the bunch of approvals and will get to 2007 soon. They look quite busy at the moment. Must be quite a shock for them after 6 years of almost nothing to do.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but again is there some sort of news that 2007 got approvals and are in Q at CW?

The general consensus seems to be that the number of applications already signed by the former interior minister is in the several hundreds so must included 2007. Why don't you call the PR section and ask? I think they will give you an answer.

[tamvine]

One of the posters on this thread said that they are a 2007 applicant and already have their residence certificate. I would guess though that he/she had some kind of connection so were fast tracked ahead of the queue. I'm a 2006 and got the blue book last week. It took almost the whole day and there were only 7-8 other applicants in that days little presentation ceremony so probably the PR section at CW is just working their way through the bunch of approvals and will get to 2007 soon. They look quite busy at the moment. Must be quite a shock for them after 6 years of almost nothing to do.

Yes, that seems to be the case, but again is there some sort of news that 2007 got approvals and are in Q at CW?

The general consensus seems to be that the number of applications already signed by the former interior minister is in the several hundreds so must included 2007. Why don't you call the PR section and ask? I think they will give you an answer.

Thanks and did so few times, however their answer is always asking to wait for the Letter. I thought at times the staff there would have told middlemen or lawyers about exact situation. So was wondering if anyone has such info.. Edited October 8, 2012 by tamvine