The end of corruption, am I the only one who will miss it?

[thejcb]

Good post op, and no, your not the only one

 

Poor post op, and you are certainly in the minority.
 

[Seastallion]

Not sure why a couple of posters are inviting me to a boxing ring because they don't agree with my opinion.  Very odd and intolerant.  Violence is a form of interaction mainly used by the ignorant and verbally handicapped.

I've seen no invitations made, and I certainly didn't invite you.
The ignorant and verbally handicapped often show poor comprehension in their reading.

[Lockind]

You haven't read the thread then.  Continue to split hairs if that floats your boat, I'm really only interested in reading posts with substance.

[Thanet]

The OP is rather gullible if he believes that the junta will end corruption.

 

Juntas, dictators and tyrants the world over, usually snatch power on the premise of stamping out corruption, restoring 'real' democracy, freedom, and so forth. They appear to make the right moves when they start out, but none can seem to resist the temptations that absolute power brings, not to mention the need to extend platitudes to others to remain in absolute power. The Republic by Plato contains an extremely insightful commentary on the psychology behind this degeneration of good intentions.

 

The present Junta model themselves on that of Sarit Thanarat. Do a bit of Googling on recent Thai history, and see if you feel so confident then about how corruption is a thing of thee past.

 

I hope that this Junta really is as good as it says, but history has a habit of repeating itself.

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by Thanet

[Lockind]

Another one who hasn't read the OP.

 

See the 'big if' in brackets.

[khaki mamba]

not so much as the nanny state that is dispicable, it is more of all the christians and their warp value system that is objectionable.

seriously thinking africa next. but south of the muslim influence.

[banglassie]

I told my fiancee about the statements I've seen here from time to time of people fearing Thailand to become more similar to Singapore.

She laughed hard and said "That's impossible! We'll always find problems, thais "like to have problems" (chop haa reuang) with each other. You think we will be free from corruption and all super clean? Impossible.. There will be fights again, and again".

I kind of see how she views it from a historical perspective. Since this is sensitive times I'm not sure how much is allowed to be said or not, but I will try to keep within the rules.

The "90% are happy with someones job" is just impossible. 90% is not a likely number, we all know that. Just think of all the reds in Isan and the North, as you know loss of face is feared like the plague here. I don't know one red-guy in Isan that today agrees he was wrong, which the "polls" suggest most to be saying.

Also, corruption can take many forms. While things are getting cleaned up and while I think the leader is doing a good job, I still fear how lower rank guys will handle tasks, maybe not the way police used to do, bribes and bribes. But being intimidating and using authority as a way to get what one wants can be a problem as well, which Bangkok post and others wrote about just a few days ago regarding some village in the national park in Buriram that was cleared out, according to the villagers they where intimidated and left out of fear, which brought human rights watch to the scene. I don't know what actually happened there cause I was not there, but power in the hands of the few is a very risky thing. It might all turn out good, but it feels like everything is heading in the direction of our western neighbor when it comes to elections and power.
Also, while it seems very good to bring happiness back to the people, and I truly hope they do, letting people go to a free cinema for learning the history of the HRH  Somdet Naresuan while having military mascots dressed outside could be viewed as populist policies as well I believe. Not saying they did anything wrong, and it was a nice thing to give to the people. 
But I just wonder, who payed for it, or did SF and Major hand it for free for the country?

My point is corruption and populist policies will always be around in one form or another, they will morph and things will change, but I hardly believe in the direction of Singapore. At least not for a few generations more.

[willyumiii]

There is no "End to Corruption".

 

Some will thrive and some will fade away.

 

The obvious stuff in the public and media eye will probably be cleaned up a bit, just to make a good show.

 

The big stuff with the big money and powerful people involved will probably just be swept a little further under the carpet

 

Even in my country there is massive corruption, it's just pretty well hidden and not discussed much.

 

One thing I have always admired about Thailand is that they don't pretend there is no corruption.

 

They admit it.

They accept it.

They deal with it.

 

Had a 200 baht traffic stop lately?

 

I expect them!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Where I live corruption gives us broken roads, blocked roads, no pavements, filth everywhere and general chaos.

It is possible to be free of corruption and not a nanny state. Singapore in the 1970s was such a place.

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

 

 

Someone forgot to tell that to the the THOUSANDS of girls working in all the bars and clubs throughout Thailand.  Or maybe it's a "Thai only" protected job venture.
 

 

Thailand only passed that law to appease the hypocrytical west. They actually treat the law with the distain it deserves.

[Bigfarang1948]

The End Of Corruption; Where?  In the LOS. I must have misunderstood your post................

seems more people like nanny states-they keep voting for it.

 

 

 

We really dont want los morph into sinapore........

 

[Seastallion]

You haven't read the thread then.  Continue to split hairs if that floats your boat, I'm really only interested in reading posts with substance.

Your first sentence is illogical and baseless. Your second sentence implies you want everyone to agree with you.

Again, I throw your your words about ignorant and handicapped back at you.

[Rorri]

Did the OP ever stop to think that it is people like him that have caused his home country to become "nanny" states. Millions live quite happily with the laws.

[Rorri]

possum1931, on 28 Jul 2014 - 21:02, said:

 

Bender, on 28 Jul 2014 - 20:28, said:

 

Kudel, on 28 Jul 2014 - 20:03, said:

I think you have been reading to much comments on the news section of tv where  pro junta farangs/yellow shirt lovers who know titi about recent Thai history concerning coups,when new elections will be held everything will just be like it was before until a next coup will occur.

Just a big pr stunt by the junta leaders nothing more.

I still can not fathom why foreigners take things for granted who have no right to vote in Thailand from crappy English media outlets in Thailand.

 

come on, you can't be serious. The junta sucessfully turned the motosai jacket from orange to bright orange. They also broadcast for free the world cup.

And dont forget they asked the bank to provide loan to people who are victims of loan sharks.

mmmh i think you need your shot of happiness

 

But they haven't done anything about Thailands dreadful road fatalities, have they? Once they start that it will be time to rejoice. But don't hold your breath.

 

They are achieving some previously impossible tasks, but miracles  will take longer.

[Rorri]

chrisinth, on 28 Jul 2014 - 22:32, said:chrisinth, on 28 Jul 2014 - 22:32, said:

Please forgive the ignorance, but what exactly have they changed regarding corruption?

I suspect we will see a few "small" fry charged, and maybe jailed, but we will not see those at the top dealt with. If they where serious they could start with charging a certain Red Bull heir.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Rorri

[Rorri]

ebean001, on 29 Jul 2014 - 10:13, said:

I hate the word corrpution because it really does not tell you anything. For example, the president of a Central America country was impeached from office and confined to his home for xx years for 'corruption'. Stop right now! 'WHAT ARE YOU THINKING' about this man?

After 3 or 4 articles in the paper, a journalist finally told the readers the act that was committed. It was - he flew to USA to visit the company that won a large contract in his country. The flight cost was less than $1000 if I recall correctly. The company paid for the flight. He did not reimburse the cost to the company'. 

now you know whay i hate the word used by journalist.

You might hate it but the fact is Corruption : 

dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. So, as you can see, there is NOTHING wrong with using the word.

[sgtsabai]

"Nanny State" and corruption are not the same. Government does have the obligation to take care of the people, not the rich plutocrats and corporations. I will agree that there is often over regulation of people, not corporate (they aren't people and won't be until Texass executes one) lives in "nanny states". While there needs to be some "clean-up" here I am very leery of the "moral" stance being projected. I grew up in the "Bible Belt" of the South (US of A), some of the most vile, hateful, hypocritical people I've ever met. Certainly people and countries that live in 'glass houses' shouldn't throw stones about corruption, i.e. the US. All being said, watch the pendulum, when it swings, it often swings too far. As I've said before, be careful what you wish for, it comes back to bite you in the ass.

[Thakkar]

I like to think of life as a game, and those who play the system best, profit most; I like that ideology. When it's dog eat dog the fittest will thrive.

In such a system, it's not the fittest that thrive. Those with talents and skills but no connections get nowhere. Those with less talent and skills, but with connections and no social conscience get to the top.

The end result is the rise of mediocrity, rule by the heartless, the rape of resources, mass impoverishment and ultimate social breakdown. For example countries which were universally deemed to have the greatest promise in the late 1940's--The Philippines, Burma, Zimbabwe--are now basket cases.

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.

In the case of Thailand, there has not been put in place the necessary administrative and legislative framework for a true accountability system. Perhaps it will happen later in the Junta's roadmap. So far all we've seen is ad hoc action coupled with a PR blitz. There is no framework in place to ensure the sustainability of any of the recent achievements.

T

[mrfaroukh]

Only people who live unlawfully will miss the corruption. I will rather live where there is less corruption and make life easy. Of course I also don't like western robot life style.

[Rorri]

mrfaroukh, on 29 Jul 2014 - 16:31, said:

Only people who live unlawfully will miss the corruption. I will rather live where there is less corruption and make life easy. Of course I also don't like western robot life style.

There are millions of happy "western robots" obviously your a "broken" one, maybe made with cheap, defective memory chips.

[HerbalEd]

What a bunch of horse s___t. As if you are some sort of hard-core dog fighter. 555

 

You should move to Pakistan, Sudan, Syria or N. Korea. Sounds like you'd be much happier there. Then you can dog fight with the best of them ... and be the one who gets eaten. 

[HerbalEd]

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

You really got the prostitution part wrong. First of all, in Thailand prostitution is illegal ... thus the corruption around it. Legalize prostitution and most of that corruption will cease. 

[duanebigsby]

funny how people complain about "nanny states."

"I left my country because of too many rules."    

 

You want the ability to pay a cop off for an infraction, but yet complain about Thailand's poor driving. I know a guy who's been caught 5 times drunk driving and just flipped them cash to continue doing so. Back home, in my nanny state, he'd be off the road

 

Rules and regulations are necessary for clean hospitals, licensed doctors and nurses, and 40th floor balconies which don't crumble under your feet, etc.

 

Be careful what you wish for when you cry "nanny state."

 

 

[nithisa78]

"I like to think of life as a game, and those who play the system best, profit most; I like that ideology. When it's dog eat dog the fittest will thrive."

Sounds like selfishness to me. You should feel right at home in Thailand.

Where are you at home, Kong? Nowhere.

Edited July 29, 2014 by nithisa78

[thhMan]

Sorry to reply with such a stupid question ....

 

Does ending corruption create a nanny state ?

 

I would have thought it would create a corruptionless state....

[SunsetT]

I think the OP like most of us totally take for granted that we owe our freedom to escape bureaucracy, and our physical and mental strength which gives us our superior power as westerners in  this 'dog eat dog' World from a simple accident of birth in the Western 'nanny state' we are so quick to criticise. In our nanny state corruption has been and still is exposed by our free press.and  fought, supressed and minimised. This has given us the privilege to be raised and nurtured in our nanny state with the best healthcare and education provided for us on a plate. This nanny state has also strived to offer the same to the physically or mentally  or economically weak and disadvantaged which I am sure many of us have benefited from at some point in our lives. None of this can happen where a country's  wealth is sapped and disappears through corruption. Corruption is mostly a tool by which the rich and powerful get more rich and powerful at the expense of the poor and weak. And is it escape from bureaucracy referred to, or the paying of tax to the nanny state which has funded the cosseted Western lives we have enjoyed and benefited from? 

 

Never forget that one's strength in this dog eat dog World can be taken from us in the blink of an eye by a disabling incident, accident, or illness.....especially in Thailand. 

[Lockind]

Only people who live unlawfully will miss the corruption. I will rather live where there is less corruption and make life easy. Of course I also don't like western robot life style.

 

Agreed to an extent but you're inferring that breaking any law makes you a bad person, right?  Lots of things may be illegal but they aren't wrong.  Just as lots of things that are wrong, aren't illegal.  I respect people's right to obey the laws of the Government of the land in which they reside, but I don't agree with labeling anybody who doesn't respect those laws as some sort of undesirable, just because they aren't quite as narrow-minded as you are.

[Lockind]

 

In such a system, it's not the fittest that thrive. Those with talents and skills but no connections get nowhere. Those with less talent and skills, but with connections and no social conscience get to the top.

The end result is the rise of mediocrity, rule by the heartless, the rape of resources, mass impoverishment and ultimate social breakdown. For example countries which were universally deemed to have the greatest promise in the late 1940's--The Philippines, Burma, Zimbabwe--are now basket cases.

War-ravaged Germany, which put in place a robust and accountable social framework on the other hand, now has a high standard of living, good education and work opportunities for its youth, excellent healthcare, etc.

 

Interesting slant, thanks.

[Lockind]

I'm not denying some of the core achievements of countries like the UK; free healthcare, good education etc.  Clearly these can only be a good thing.

 

I'm merely stating that you aren't ever really free there, you're an effective prisoner whilst you remain in one of those countries.  The easily-led, manipulable sheep aren't too perturbed by this.  But it's in the nature of anybody with a degree of tenacity or entitlement to independency to rebel against that sort of system.

[Seastallion]

I'm not denying some of the core achievements of countries like the UK; free healthcare, good education etc.  Clearly these can only be a good thing.

 

I'm merely stating that you aren't ever really free there, you're an effective prisoner whilst you remain in one of those countries.  The easily-led, manipulable sheep aren't too perturbed by this.  But it's in the nature of anybody with a degree of tenacity or entitlement to independency to rebel against that sort of system.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.....or can you? Why does the absence of corruption mean "nanny state" or loss of freedom?

 

Why does the abolishment of corruption mean you have less freedom? Less freedom to bribe your way out of the consequences of your crime, yes.... so why not abolish law and order so there is no crime to begin with? Anything  is legal? You're not that stupid to say yes. You're wanting that only the rich can get off. I despise that attitude more than I despise the nanny state.

 

You want to escape bureaucracy. You haven't. Without it, there would be no taxes paying, e.g, for roads with street lights for businesses to ply their trade for you to buy what you need , or policemen, or traffic lights or....need I go on?

 

Basically, from your thread title, your OP, and your replies, I gather that you simply want to be able to pay your way to get advantage over others. You can't do that AND have all the other benefits of law and bureaucracy.

In your case, you can not have your cake and eat it too.

 

And saying that those that are not of your opinion are manipulated sheep with no tenacity or (feeling of) entitlement to independency is a very weak way of opposing them, and inaccurate.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Seastallion