Canadian Journalist Shot Dead By Girlfriend In Chiang Mai

[thaimeup]

Try as I may to find sympathy for these ladies, after reading Sarada's account in her spiritual quest book on-line, I've decided that my sympathy lies with the children rather than the mothers. It's always the innocents that suffer. You as adults made your choices, the children didn't have that luxury.

When it comes to sympathy for others, you may consider that he successfully wooed and was legally married for 9 years (until just recently) to Geri Cvitanovich, certainly no bubble-headed-swooning-dummy, an herbalife top distributor worth millions. The guy was VERY good at bagging and keeping the women he set forth after. I would suggest that sympathy be available to all those seriously injured by this man's intricate fabrications built to support his grandiose and narcisistic quests. None of us is all knowing. Certainly children suffer the most but as to choices, true choices do not exist where there is an entire enterprise built to decieve. Ultimately, this whole web conversation goes back to Jeana/Margaret and the question of personal responsibility. I think arguements can be made on both sides. She was driven by extreme mental/emotional abuse. She is responsible for the death of a human being. Personally I do not know where justice lies. Should she have full clemency due to the character of the man? Is all human life protected by laws no matter what the life of the individual? I do not support vigilante justice but I have lived through much torment at the hands of this person. Did he bring the weapon to the restaurant and taunt her after physically slapping her so that her response is more like second degree manslaugher than premeditated "murder 1"?.........The Thai justice system has a real tough job here.

If we use that much quoted old Indian saying about not judging someone until we walk a mile in their shoes, we wouldn’t be able to comment on anybodies life or have opinions about them. Judges wouldn’t be able to judge and we could all justify our actions regardless of how bad we have been. Where is the sense of responsibility for our actions? Where does it end?

Thaimeup: we are getting into some very interesting philosophical questions here. As I understand it, the justice system is more of an adjudication based on physical evidence, and the corroboration of witnesses' evidence - all of which a judge takes into account along with legal precedent, & his/her own legal and personal experience. It is often flawed and biased like any other system - precisely because it is human.

As regards personal responsibility, I think many people would agree with you that -ideally- everyone should live their lives accepting full responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions. Having said that, the world is not conveniently arranged so that we have absolute free choice. We are heavily constrained by the limits of our knowledge, culture, age,education, memory, gender, personal history, wealth, government regulation etc....so there are very strong limits within which "free" choice and responsibility can work. I think in these circumstances "judgment" of the behaviour of others is presumptuous and unhelpful because we can never fully understand each other...any more than we can always explain our own behaviour. It is my experience that when I judge others it is usually because they are doing something which i fear or dislike in myself. Personal responsibility then becomes a matter of finding out what it is in me that I am scape-goating others for....I hope this is in some way helpful.

Yes Fruittbatt, we're getting into a sticky area here and I do realize that much of what we do and say comes from our cultural, social and God know's what other restraints we operate under, but we still have to judge and make rules to uphold this imperfect system or there would be chaos. <snip>

/Mod Edit: off-topic and non-Thailand related comments deleted.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Jai Dee

[specialk]

Mahalo for the new info on the remains of Dubie, after all, it will be at least some sort of closesure for his three offsprings that live here in Washington State..................... MAYBE??????????????? Who knows what new terrors that may arise in my children some day because of his selfless, ego, sexual, mental torturing ways............................................... I know that I just learned something the other day that makes me wish he weren't dead, and that I might be the one to now pull the trigger on that gun, but not for him to die right away................................OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WOULD BE TOO HUMANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I, Kari, no longer wish this of (what's his name) born 03/17/50....ss#561-86-1107...................................I wish he were alive.......................and I know there are many that still believe this to be the case, that he has just faked his death and that Jeana/M is willing to sacrafice her life in jail or to be executed to clear him of many that search for him......but, I don't think this is so, but I wish it could be,,,,,,,,,,,,,so we could all seek our reVenge of this monster, wimp, depraved, spineless, beast of a man, that called himeself almost anything but his birth name....... of,...... GEORGE PATRICK DUBIE.

george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george..........................................................................

................................................................................

...................................................................etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,..................................................................NOT: Shon, Christian Hart, Keoki, Daniel blah blah blah..............................................etc. Get my point???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "IF" these are indeed his ashes,,,,,,,,please push flush..........................................

WOW

I dont know what you were doing when you wrote this but I think you are very brave to vent such inner emotions to a forum

its emotive illogical unaccountable neurotic irrational

suggest you change your medication immediately as you are dangerous and should be off the streets

Suggest you get a life, blackheart....then you might be able to imagine what another person's anguish feels like....you might even get some insights into your own creepy and sick psyche

I might be the one to now pull the trigger on that gun, but not for him to die right away -

and I'm sick?

Along with BlackJack, I'm confused by the swings in emotion regarding Dubie: He should have rotted in jail, followed by I forgive him; he was a genius, may he find peace, I still love him and then I wish I had shot him instead. There is a world of decent guys and yet these two ladies bypassed that for a scoundrel who gave them the hots. Go figure.

Well, who isn't confused???????????? If you're still logging on and submiting a post , ( to this very lovely newspaper), that brought us all together, then you TOO!, may need medical attention.

r u a parent???? Are you a mother that had her little two year old daughter abducted by him for 6and a half years????????????? NO ONE!!!!!!!!! knows this pain until you're there!!!!! You all saw the real me in both of my last posts............The first is getting on with her life and trying to find the good, and of course, there is the fact that I would not have the three children I do without him. For that I am grateful.........................................................

The next, way more savage post, came out of me because of something very personal I just learned of................................. A friend of mine was just saying yesterday about how life is so strange.............What an understatement!!! LISTEN FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you didn't live it.................................Well, then you make comments to a perfect stranger, like blackjack does, judging about somethings he knows squat about. (Look that word up, old pal)

Try as I may to find sympathy for these ladies, after reading Sarada's account in her spiritual quest book on-line, I've decided that my sympathy lies with the children rather than the mothers. It's always the innocents that suffer. You as adults made your choices, the children didn't have that luxury.

Thaimeup, we all feel for the many children who have suffered who knows what grief and trauma: but I don't think playing god and judging the mothers who have brought these children up single-handedly is a very helpful addition to this topic.

Don't go out of your way too try and bring thaimeup into the light. His light bulb never came on.

[specialk]

Try as I may to find sympathy for these ladies, after reading Sarada's account in her spiritual quest book on-line, I've decided that my sympathy lies with the children rather than the mothers. It's always the innocents that suffer. You as adults made your choices, the children didn't have that luxury.

When it comes to sympathy for others, you may consider that he successfully wooed and was legally married for 9 years (until just recently) to Geri Cvitanovich, certainly no bubble-headed-swooning-dummy, an herbalife top distributor worth millions. The guy was VERY good at bagging and keeping the women he set forth after. I would suggest that sympathy be available to all those seriously injured by this man's intricate fabrications built to support his grandiose and narcisistic quests. None of us is all knowing. Certainly children suffer the most but as to choices, true choices do not exist where there is an entire enterprise built to decieve. Ultimately, this whole web conversation goes back to Jeana/Margaret and the question of personal responsibility. I think arguements can be made on both sides. She was driven by extreme mental/emotional abuse. She is responsible for the death of a human being. Personally I do not know where justice lies. Should she have full clemency due to the character of the man? Is all human life protected by laws no matter what the life of the individual? I do not support vigilante justice but I have lived through much torment at the hands of this person. Did he bring the weapon to the restaurant and taunt her after physically slapping her so that her response is more like second degree manslaugher than premeditated "murder 1"?.........The Thai justice system has a real tough job here.

Thank you for articulating so clearly the complex issues which this shooting has raised.

All I want to say to both of you. is that I would love to meet you some day.... I am sooooooo very impressed by at least a few of the ladies in Dubies past.. You girls ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that Herbal girl and Thai girl read all of this, but, their hearts aren't where they should be. Oh, well, I have always believed in Karma, and their reality is not to have any peaceful closeure to this situation, or they would be reaching out to the others............... Oh, my God, that sounds like a new T.V. drama that should follow the series "LOST"

Well, like it or not kids....... We that were involved with Dubie and had his babies, do have a lot of emotional baggage.......DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, Jeri, This is a chance for you to e-mail me and ask me what you want to, instead of having a guy that calls himself Ken try to get info from me....... I speak the truth...........I have nothing to hide..... I now wonder why you do???????????????????????????????/

Well, of course Herbal or Thai girls don't want Jeana/Maggie to be helped, because she was always there in the background of their life and feel threatened by this because of their ego... Instead, they should be reaching out to all and all the children of his life and try to have some peace.......

Whatever........ I don't need to try and make this happen, don't much feel like talking until i'm blue in the face...............

Much Aloha to A and M

Edited August 1, 2006 by specialk

[specialk]

Where has everyone gone???????????????? Off to new topics I guess.......I am going to miss you all, thanks for all of your input, even when it was wrong, it just meant a lot to me. Even with George Dubie's death, he will live on forever in my heart. It was a real good thing for me to share the pain he had caused me, it was a way of letting it go. I feel lighter right now. Does that make sense???? I know he must have had many regrets in his life. Just look at all the beautiful people he surrounded himself with. Just look at all the beautiful children he had. Somehow, he just couldn't keep his demons at bay. Who knows what the after life brings, but, I do wish he is at peace and can find a way to make up for all of his wrong doings.....................That should keep him busy for a few centuries. LOL

Seriously though..........Farewell, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for my Jamil, Calista and Christian. For them, I am eternally greatful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surfs up....Hang ten!!!!

Sincerely, Kari aka Karen Davis

Thank you for sharing your life with us through this forum and through Sarada's story. I hope that in the second half of your life you get all the rewards you deserve for being a great mum, a brave and caring person, and able to forgive the past ...All the very best .......fruittbatt

There is no easy way to sum up this man s life; he was a very complex person. He was extremely birght, driven and restless. He was not divine although he told me he was and that I am and that we are all blameless children of God. I think alot will come of his death. For now there is shock, giref, anger, and the work to rebuild. There is real evil in the world and whereverthere are lies there cannot be peace. I wish those affected and suffering due to his lies, the peace that comes from learning the truth. This forum has been a civil (for the most part) way to find the truth and so peace.

THANK YOU KARI for your openess. I send your lovely children Aloha may we know the (Mae' mae) truth and find this peace to let go of anger and go forward without that great burden.

George Patrick Dubie was finally cremated yesterday (Tuesday) here in Chiang Mai, and though he's gone, it will just be the beginning of sorting out his estate, and the enormous hassle you can imagine it will bring for all those concerned.

Mahalo for the new info on the remains of Dubie, after all, it will be at least some sort of closesure for his three offsprings that live here in Washington State..................... MAYBE??????????????? Who knows what new terrors that may arise in my children some day because of his selfless, ego, sexual, mental torturing ways............................................... I know that I just learned something the other day that makes me wish he weren't dead, and that I might be the one to now pull the trigger on that gun, but not for him to die right away................................OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT WOULD BE TOO HUMANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I, Kari, no longer wish this of (what's his name) born 03/17/50....ss#561-86-1107...................................I wish he were alive.......................and I know there are many that still believe this to be the case, that he has just faked his death and that Jeana/M is willing to sacrafice her life in jail or to be executed to clear him of many that search for him......but, I don't think this is so, but I wish it could be,,,,,,,,,,,,,so we could all seek our reVenge of this monster, wimp, depraved, spineless, beast of a man, that called himeself almost anything but his birth name....... of,...... GEORGE PATRICK DUBIE.

george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george, george..........................................................................

................................................................................

...................................................................etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,..................................................................NOT: Shon, Christian Hart, Keoki, Daniel blah blah blah..............................................etc. Get my point???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "IF" these are indeed his ashes,,,,,,,,please push flush..........................................

WOW

I dont know what you were doing when you wrote this but I think you are very brave to vent such inner emotions to a forum

its emotive illogical unaccountable neurotic irrational

suggest you change your medication immediately as you are dangerous and should be off the streets

Suggest you get a life, blackheart....then you might be able to imagine what another person's anguish feels like....you might even get some insights into your own creepy and sick psyche

People that have nothing to hide from don't... those that do, are people like Dubie. Why do you think it so weird that I give my e-mail and phone # etc. and share my emotions??????????????? When Dubie threatened my life and took my child away, I went back to my childhood home, where he had been to so that he could find me. All I wanted was my child back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I hid in fear of him, I would never have seen my baby again..............I would prefer death.. Get a life

[Jai Dee]

OK folks... I've had to edit out a few posts and delete a few as well because they were going off-topic, and some were comments obviously intended to flame other members.

Please read the Forum Rules and abide by them... otherwise this thread will get closed and warnings and/or holidays awarded to offenders.

Thanks for your understanding.

[hawaiianeyes]

OK folks... I've had to edit out a few posts and delete a few as well because they were going off-topic, and some were comments obviously intended to flame other members.

Please read the Forum Rules and abide by them... otherwise this thread will get closed and warnings and/or holidays awarded to offenders.

Thanks for your understanding.

Sorry to hear that flame wars are erupting.

Sticking to the thread: Canadian Journalist Shot Dead by Girlfriend in Chiang Mai.

The story is alarming both by what was witnessed by the little boy in the news photo as well as the life of the man that was the victim. Books could be written about this man. His life was not a conventional one in any sense. He stirred a lot of people to accomplish a lot for him. His treatment of women is well documented in various court actions. I support a fair evaluation and publication of the facts pertinent to both sides of the issue.

His dealings with me ran on both sides of his well patterned spectrum. For long periods of time he was the ideal that he presented to Geri or likely to Pim, a thoughtful, intelligent, industrious, creative, intuitive, sensitive, gem of a man. At various periods he became angry, abusive, and irrational, threatened my life and my children and caused me such pain and torment that I can never put it into words or forget it. I do not believe he ever exhibited this side of his personality to Geri or Pim. It is my opinion that perhaps growing up with a mother and 4 sisters habituated him into the concept that women were his "angels" to serve him and for him to use to fight off the world. It was my observation that he pitted woman against woman and hid behind skirts when it suited him. My response to the revelation of his full spectrum of behaviour was to run away. He then initiated a chase and a terrorizing assault into my world. I finally responded by following every legal avenue possible. He laughed at my attempts that he would always win and that he would shun me and I would be forced to crawl back to him. This was a cruel and calculating individual. Still I will not deny that there was so much within him that was wonderful and magical and when that was the person he displayed he elicited the most profound love and loyalty imaginable.

I have no doubt that those reading this from a distance will be puzzled and not readily be able to imagine this. It would be convenient to say Jeana/MArgaret shot and killed a man and therefore she deserves a firing squad. I detect that such black and white evaluation may precipitate some of the comments in this thread. Lacking the actual knowledge of who brought the gun etc. I have no opinion on this question. AS to the question of mitigating circumstances, I do know the man and would urge folks to realize that he was first a human being and deeply loved but that he did have a bad history of inflicting really off the chart torment to women-it seems specifically the mothers of his children. He told me once he loved all his children but none of the mothers. So "go figure". I guess after these weeks since the event, I would tend to say at this point that I favor some measure of clemency for Jeana-- to have her face a firing squad in this case seems unduly tragic. Certainly she pulled the trigger and should face real consequences. Others have felt such extreme desperation but not had the means, opportunity. I could never have done this. Under all my suffering I still genuinely loved him and prayed for the day that he would see and accept responsibility for the devastation he had inflicted on others and make a real and sustained effort to make it right. I think that was just too much to ask or dream for. Then he would have had to reveal to his mother (now passed), Geri, Pim those protected few the depths of his abuses and lies. I think that he would prefer death to that level of humility.

I mourn his loss. We are all deeply flawed. I will not judge him. Resuscitated, I committed myself to fighting for truth in love. This has been my own personal mostly lonely path in the hope of finding real peace. I do want to go on for my children and present a grounded, reality based example of one woman in a big world/ accepting what we cannot change and fighting for change when there is opportunity.....

[hawaiianeyes]

Hawaiian Eyes

[specialk]

Try as I may to find sympathy for these ladies, after reading Sarada's account in her spiritual quest book on-line, I've decided that my sympathy lies with the children rather than the mothers. It's always the innocents that suffer. You as adults made your choices, the children didn't have that luxury.

When it comes to sympathy for others, you may consider that he successfully wooed and was legally married for 9 years (until just recently) to Geri Cvitanovich, certainly no bubble-headed-swooning-dummy, an herbalife top distributor worth millions. The guy was VERY good at bagging and keeping the women he set forth after. I would suggest that sympathy be available to all those seriously injured by this man's intricate fabrications built to support his grandiose and narcisistic quests. None of us is all knowing. Certainly children suffer the most but as to choices, true choices do not exist where there is an entire enterprise built to decieve. Ultimately, this whole web conversation goes back to Jeana/Margaret and the question of personal responsibility. I think arguements can be made on both sides. She was driven by extreme mental/emotional abuse. She is responsible for the death of a human being. Personally I do not know where justice lies. Should she have full clemency due to the character of the man? Is all human life protected by laws no matter what the life of the individual? I do not support vigilante justice but I have lived through much torment at the hands of this person. Did he bring the weapon to the restaurant and taunt her after physically slapping her so that her response is more like second degree manslaugher than premeditated "murder 1"?.........The Thai justice system has a real tough job here.

Thank you for articulating so clearly the complex issues which this shooting has raised.

All I want to say to both of you. is that I would love to meet you some day.... I am sooooooo very impressed by at least a few of the ladies in Dubies past.. You girls ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that Herbal girl and Thai girl read all of this, but, their hearts aren't where they should be. Oh, well, I have always believed in Karma, and their reality is not to have any peaceful closeure to this situation, or they would be reaching out to the others............... Oh, my God, that sounds like a new T.V. drama that should follow the series "LOST"

Well, like it or not kids....... We that were involved with Dubie and had his babies, do have a lot of emotional baggage.......DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, Jeri, This is a chance for you to e-mail me and ask me what you want to, instead of having a guy that calls himself Ken try to get info from me....... I speak the truth...........I have nothing to hide..... I now wonder why you do???????????????????????????????/

Well, of course Herbal or Thai girls don't want Jeana/Maggie to be helped, because she was always there in the background of their life and feel threatened by this because of their ego... Instead, they should be reaching out to all and all the children of his life and try to have some peace.......

Whatever........ I don't need to try and make this happen, don't much feel like talking until i'm blue in the face...............

Much Aloha to A and M

I'm writing to correct something in this last post of mine. I was wrong to think that a man named Ken was trying to get info from me. He wasn't. So very sorry, my mistake.

[hawaiianeyes]

Hawaiian Eyes

http://www.virgin.net/music/musicvideos/ja...autiful_hi.html

[Kerryd]

Hawaiian Eyes

http://www.virgin.net/music/musicvideos/ja...autiful_hi.html

Oh please, this is just getting stupid now.

Seek professional help, seriously.

A good deprogrammer would be a start, followed by consulting a competent psychiatrist.

[hawaiianeyes]

Oh please, this is just getting stupid now.

Seek professional help, seriously.

A good deprogrammer would be a start, followed by consulting a competent psychiatrist.

A man is dead. 5 children may lose there mom. What is more stupid than all the weirdness that has gone on in his life including this murder? Like others in this thread, I have been trying to make some sense of it all.

Thank you for your advice. I have been "deprogrammed", well helped professionally and recertified for the "real world".

My intent here has been to give an inside view into this person's life so that it doesn't become such a characature that it losses all meaning.

I know the song and the portrait are over the top but a web-wake should have some moment of art beyond simple words. I sent it out of respect and affection, for the benefit certain others that are anonymously reading.

I will sign off now. I don't think that I have anything more to contribute to this thread.

Aloha

[hawaiianeyes]

Oh please, this is just getting stupid now.

Seek professional help, seriously.

A good deprogrammer would be a start, followed by consulting a competent psychiatrist.

Hello Kerryd,

Just to let you know that this man seems to have left quite a few more women in need of serious deprogramming! This mess will take years to sort out if ever. I fear that some of the victims (blog below) will hold tighly to the illusions and deny the tragic and bizzare realities of his life.

blog site:

http://hazel8500.wordpress.com/2006/08/03/...ge-in-thailand/

4 Responses to “Victoria woman faces murder charge in Thailand”

1. Robin Sharan Says:

August 8th, 2006 at 12:22 am

My name is Robin Sharan and I am the owner and founder of The Annapurna Center for Self Healing in Port Townsend,Washington.

I knew these people from 11 years ago when Margaret made arrangements for Daniel to participate in The Annapurna Center for Self Healing. She did everything in her power to help him to heal of very serious conditions. He had had brain injuries when he had been in a coma for four months and would come to The Annapurna to recuperate. He likened himself to the central characters of the films, Powder and Phenomenon. He could be very charming and he was extremely intuitive and psychic so he could influence people with his very persuasive manner.

For payment for Daniel’s Annapurna stays Margaret created The Elegant Simplicity of Reflexology,a 101 minute video on the benefits of the ancient Egyptian art of compression massage on the feet.

Margaret was totally devoted to Daniel and he was the father to all their beautiful children. He was of Saudi Arabian and Swedish descent and over time, I observed that he treated women with decidedly less than excellent behavior. Margaret was always exhausting herself to please him and was rarely if ever honored for her devotion to Daniel and dedication to her children. All their children are amazingly adorable,kind, and very bright which is testimony enough for the dedication of Margaret Crane to her family. I understand that there was severe abuse committed by Daniel and that that could have been the very thing that caused Margaret to prevent it from ever happening again. She was only protecting her children from abuse. It is only reasonable that she be set free to take care of her children. Please have mercy on the children, set Margaret Crane free to raise her children.

I lost touch with them in the beginning of the year 2000.

Again, Margaret Crane deserves to be set free to take care of her children.

2. hazel8500 Says:

August 8th, 2006 at 12:47 am

Thank you Robin for your post, I am sure it will mean a lot to Margaret’s family to read those words, if they ever get to see them.

I’ve been doing some research into Daniel’s past and he certainly seems like a nightmare who has a knack for meeting lovely women. What you describe fits with other first hand accounts I’ve encountered through media sources.

I’ll be following this story, and will be adding more links and articles in the coming days to what I’ve learned. I invite you to visit any time to read, or comment, or even leave messages of support to the Crane family if you so wish.

I do hope your wishes for Margaret Crane and her children comes to pass.

Take care.

Hazel.

3. personal prosperity int. Says:

August 14th, 2006 at 4:28 pm

Dearest Ms. Robin Sharan, (and Hazel) 8/14/06

Hello! I have just read your brief letter and personal opinion/observation of George “Daniel” Dubie. I want to let you know that I sincerely respect your honest observations. Although, I must say I too knew the Dubie’s/people on a personal and professional level and the fact is Margaret”Jeana” Crane was one of Daniel’s followers and she was not a very stable and grounded woman emotionally and mentally. Margaret created this situation for herself and nobody else. She is responsible for her actions. Daniel was never physically abusive to this woman and Despite what you think and know, and read all the gossip about Mr. Dubie. Mr. Dubie was a very well respected man in our community and did wonderful things for the people especially children around the world. Those children that margaret claim to be Daniel’s are not so/true. The five children were invitro fertalized, and the eldest daughter Angie Cruz was from a man from margaret’s past. Afterall, Margaret was a lesbian. Let it be known that margaret and Daniel were never a couple, although Margaret felt otherwise. Margaret was not Daniels type of woman at all. Thus In all fairness to the Dubie family and Ms. Crane let the facts be known. Margaret should pay for the crime that she committed. The laws should be obeyed and respected at any country one person is at. Thank you very much.

hawaiianeyes Says:

August 15th, 2006 at 6:50 pm

Dear Hazel and Sharan,

I believe the post above is writen by an ex-wife of Daniel. These are the stories that I knew he told her. This is the situation that he orchestrated for her to believe. However, careful consideration of the great body of factual evidence and testimony of folks that actually knew him does not support her one-sided “Daniel-as-a-misunderstood-saint” account.

Daniel had two very different behaviour patterns and was not an “emotionally grounded”, universally respected individual; he was eratic, constantly on the move, with more domestic situations than is almost imaginable, a convicted felon who served time in a correctional facility in Oahu. He has a long history of various cons that is well documented. His attempts with other’s help and money to white wash his image did not change his basic behaviour pattern. He consistently claimed that all the women that reported his abuse were “emotionally unstable, crazy” etc. This is the classic response of men who carry on double lives.

He was not Arabic. He did not have a brain tumor. He claimed to me to have a brain tumor and presented me with a CAT scan. I believed his story that because he was devote Muslim he could not get conventional treatments. I found the same brain tumor image while searching the internet. He just downloaded and printed it on a fake hospital form and pretended to be ill. When I confronted him with this fraud he admitted it and begged me to realize that it was the depth of his love for me that motivated him to do this. He was very skilled at motivating folks to do for him out of compassion.

This is just one of his endless antics.

Jeana on the other hand was devoted to him for over 20 years despite all the other women and marriages. Unfortunately, there is court testimony from a woman that indicates Jeana's actions (motivated by her devotion to him ??) resulted (knowingly or not) in facilitating some of his cons.

This is a complex case. Daniel had a brilliant and loving mind capable of great things that is certainly true. He also had a long history of using his charisma to abuse and intimidate others- physically, emotionally and otherwise. Those that loved him hoped that his bad pattern of deciet and lies would end and that he would focus on his true gifts. I also mourn his loss and believe that laws should be respected and obeyed. It is out of a deep and abiding love for this individual that I am utterly committed to truth- something that woefully he did not hold dear.

[BlackJack]

Now we are getting somewhere!

3. personal prosperity int. Says:

August 14th, 2006 at 4:28 pm

Dearest Ms. Robin Sharan, (and Hazel) 8/14/06

Hello! I have just read your brief letter and personal opinion/observation of George “Daniel” Dubie. I want to let you know that I sincerely respect your honest observations. Although, I must say I too knew the Dubie’s/people on a personal and professional level and the fact is Margaret”Jeana” Crane was one of Daniel’s followers and she was not a very stable and grounded woman emotionally and mentally. Margaret created this situation for herself and nobody else. She is responsible for her actions. Daniel was never physically abusive to this woman and Despite what you think and know, and read all the gossip about Mr. Dubie. Mr. Dubie was a very well respected man in our community and did wonderful things for the people especially children around the world. Those children that margaret claim to be Daniel’s are not so/true. The five children were invitro fertalized, and the eldest daughter Angie Cruz was from a man from margaret’s past. Afterall, Margaret was a lesbian. Let it be known that margaret and Daniel were never a couple, although Margaret felt otherwise. Margaret was not Daniels type of woman at all. Thus In all fairness to the Dubie family and Ms. Crane let the facts be known. Margaret should pay for the crime that she committed. The laws should be obeyed and respected at any country one person is at. Thank you very much.

[fruittbatt]

Hawaiianeyes,

thanks for your continuing research into those duped by Dubie. The letter alleged to be from "personalprosperity" was also very revealing of the writer's beliefs. As you say, many women were fooled by this expert...regardless of their education, wealth, and personal strengths.

best to you, fruittbatt.

[specialk]

Hawaiianeyes,

thanks for your continuing research into those duped by Dubie. The letter alleged to be from "personalprosperity" was also very revealing of the writer's beliefs. As you say, many women were fooled by this expert...regardless of their education, wealth, and personal strengths.

best to you, fruittbatt.

Yes, I too thank Hawaiianeyes, her and I are on the same page, although his hold on me was gone long long ago. I wonder why a woman like Jeri did't hire an inverstigater before she married him???? I sure bet the company Herbalife wish she had!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best to you Fruittbatt and Hawaiianeyes. Talk to ya soon. Love Kari

[seri thai]

See also http://hazel8500.wordpress.com/2006/08/03/...ge-in-thailand/

Another Fahrang wacko!

Where is Joseph Conrad when you need him?

When you realise the Fahrang detritus that the Thai cops deal with on a daily basis, no wonder they have some preconceptions.

You will find the same if you talk with staff from any embassy in the kingdom. I despair of being profiled as a "typical fahrang" if I ever have to sit the wrong side of an immigration or police desk for some reason.

Fortunately I have found officials a lot more courteous and understanding than their fahrang counterparts.

These people are all over the country. Adventurers, misfits and outright criminals with new identities.

A personal rule of thumb is never trust a fahrang with a double-barrel name here!

To an extent every expat who has chosen to live here has developed a new identity. Most have legitimate reasons but I wonder about the percentage of the others!

My ex-wife used to say Thailand was where people go who can't make it in the real world...

An element of truth there!

Ah well it all adds colour and excitement I suppose.

Now if the FBI were to have a poster campaign in the Fahrang enclaves!!

[fruittbatt]

See also http://hazel8500.wordpress.com/2006/08/03/...ge-in-thailand/

Another Fahrang wacko!

Where is Joseph Conrad when you need him?

When you realise the Fahrang detritus that the Thai cops deal with on a daily basis, no wonder they have some preconceptions.

You will find the same if you talk with staff from any embassy in the kingdom. I despair of being profiled as a "typical fahrang" if I ever have to sit the wrong side of an immigration or police desk for some reason.

Fortunately I have found officials a lot more courteous and understanding than their fahrang counterparts.

These people are all over the country. Adventurers, misfits and outright criminals with new identities.

A personal rule of thumb is never trust a fahrang with a double-barrel name here!

To an extent every expat who has chosen to live here has developed a new identity. Most have legitimate reasons but I wonder about the percentage of the others!

My ex-wife used to say Thailand was where people go who can't make it in the real world...

An element of truth there!

Ah well it all adds colour and excitement I suppose.

Now if the FBI were to have a poster campaign in the Fahrang enclaves!!

Don't get too excited seri thai in wonderland...the ex-pats with media profile here are usually criminal offenders or those affected by crime, because such sensation sells media audiences to advertisers. I would guess that the large majority of expat farang is reasonably content and law-abiding: many hard-working and dedicated teachers, volunteers, business-people, retirees, students, travellers, who enjoy living among Thais and relish most of what this kingdom has to offer.

You might spare a thought for Margaret Crane (Jeana) the woman who remains in gaol in Chiang Mai. Significantly, she too maintains some dignity and identity even under such deprived circumstances. She is teaching yoga to other women inmates. She is unable to make telephone calls and so cannot even speak to her children in Canada...

[dimmog]

i wonder if the kids even want to talk to the loser

Do you know Jeanna at all? Have you ever met this very intelligent woman? If so you would certainly not make a comment like that and if you have not then it by no means give you any right to judge her for what may or may not have happened in her past.

[fruittbatt]

Louise Dickson, Times Colonist

Published: Saturday, July 29, 2006

Angel Crane hasn’t talked to her mother in more than a week.

Margaret Crane, a Victoria woman facing a murder charge in Thailand in the shooting death of Angel’s father Daniel George Dubie, has been moved to a new women’s prison where she can’t make or receive phone calls.

“She was panicking the last time I talked to her because she didn’t know when she would be able to talk to me again, so it was sort of like goodbye,” the 22-year-old telemarketing employee said Friday.

A friend brings food to Margaret and passes on news to Angel. The friend told her that Margaret has a hearing every 12 days and has a new lawyer she trusts.

“She’s hanging in there,” said Angel. “She’s teaching yoga to the other inmates and trying to do her best to keep her strength up.”

Margaret’s five youngest children, who were flown to Victoria after the shooting death of their father, miss their mother and worry about her, said Angel.

The children also miss Thailand and their friends. The oldest girl, who just turned 15, had a difficult birthday because she didn’t hear from her mother. “It’s hard to lose the closeness so suddenly,” said Angel.

Angel hasn’t given up her dream of getting custody of her brothers and sisters. All five children are together in a temporary foster home. Angel spends a lot of time there with her brothers and sisters.

“The Ministry of Children and Families has been really great,” said Angel. “Keeping [the siblings] all together has made a huge difference.”

The kindness of people in the community has also made a big difference to the Crane family.

On Friday, three crafty ladies who live at The Victorian at McKenzie retirement home presented Angel with a cheque for $400. Flo Bowles, 86, Flo Pollok, 86, and Doris Thompson, 78, raised the money by making and selling cards. They use quilling, teabag folding and tatting techniques to make the cards and sell them for $2.50 to raise money for their favourite charities.

Angel has become their cause celebre.

“We read about her in the paper and we thought ‘Now what could be a better cause than that,’” said Bowles.

“The majority of our residents have grandchildren, and we realize the burden that’s been thrust on Angel at such a young age,” said Thompson. “We hope our cheque will help make things a little easier. She’s going to need lots of help.”

The money will be put in a savings account and will be used for rent or to go toward a vehicle big enough for all the children.

“They are very sweet,” Angel said of the three women. “And it sure helps, knowing people care.”

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2006

Posted by hazel8500

Filed in News, International, BC

[Schooner]

I can't believe I just spent hours reading this entire thread. I hope Steven Leather is reading this because only he will "understand".and perhaps he can make sence of it all.

Just for the record I want to ask Is that you Clara? (my sister who has a few problems of the nature displayed here for those of you who don't know her)

I have questions. How does a women that have been abused so badly by this monster (and I think he was a bad guy) follow him to Thailand so that she can be in close proximity for the abuse to likely continue? How do apparently intelligent, articulate (ok, the "I wish I had pulled the trigger, but I still love him" was a little over the top) wind up with a guy like this? I mean I can understand women being taken in by someones charm for a brief period of time (it happens to me all the time in Pattaya) but, really, how many babies does it take to figure this stuff out? And how is it that these same women seem to know about him being shot half way around the world within days of it happening?

I'm thinking that if I were one of these said women I would be a little unsettled about being in this group.

I have been douped by women all my life. Some of them are real players and I confess I had thoughts about doing something bad to them, but I don't know where any of them are living today and I would like to think that if one of them were shot I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

I agree that the kids are all going to be tramatised by this but some how I think that this will just be another bump in the road in a otherwise tramatic life. I'm afraid I will sound insensitive (sorry Clara) but children that have been raised by women who are incapable of managing there affairs with men are doing more damage on a daily basis than one event couuld ever achieve.

Obviously the facts are not clear, but there's a dead guy and a live woman (do the math)

Does anyone else (besides blackjack) think that this woman deserves to be in jail not for murder but for stupidity. I mean shoot someone in Thailand??? I think if I were her my defence would be that he repetedly slammed my head on the cement floor and thus I am brain dead. She can prove it by documenting how she followed this guy around for the last 25 years.

[LoveDaBlues]

The thread that won't die

All of the associates of this shady Dubie character with their aka's have had their 15 minutes of fame. Bottom line the lady shot the guy....don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Speaking of time, it's time for this Dubie clan to crawl back under the rocks.

The one daughter is a telemarketer? Yea the world needs a few thousand more of those.

[Loaded]

Louise Dickson, Times Colonist

Published: Saturday, July 29, 2006

Talking out of her arse?

[fruittbatt]

I can't believe I just spent hours reading this entire thread. I hope Steven Leather is reading this because only he will "understand".and perhaps he can make sence of it all.

Just for the record I want to ask Is that you Clara? (my sister who has a few problems of the nature displayed here for those of you who don't know her)

I have questions. How does a women that have been abused so badly by this monster (and I think he was a bad guy) follow him to Thailand so that she can be in close proximity for the abuse to likely continue? How do apparently intelligent, articulate (ok, the "I wish I had pulled the trigger, but I still love him" was a little over the top) wind up with a guy like this? I mean I can understand women being taken in by someones charm for a brief period of time (it happens to me all the time in Pattaya) but, really, how many babies does it take to figure this stuff out? And how is it that these same women seem to know about him being shot half way around the world within days of it happening?

I'm thinking that if I were one of these said women I would be a little unsettled about being in this group.

I have been douped by women all my life. Some of them are real players and I confess I had thoughts about doing something bad to them, but I don't know where any of them are living today and I would like to think that if one of them were shot I wouldn't give it a moments thought.

I agree that the kids are all going to be tramatised by this but some how I think that this will just be another bump in the road in a otherwise tramatic life. I'm afraid I will sound insensitive (sorry Clara) but children that have been raised by women who are incapable of managing there affairs with men are doing more damage on a daily basis than one event couuld ever achieve.

Obviously the facts are not clear, but there's a dead guy and a live woman (do the math)

Does anyone else (besides blackjack) think that this woman deserves to be in jail not for murder but for stupidity. I mean shoot someone in Thailand??? I think if I were her my defence would be that he repetedly slammed my head on the cement floor and thus I am brain dead. She can prove it by documenting how she followed this guy around for the last 25 years.

How sad that your sister does not even have the support and encouragement of her own brother to regain the self-esteem she evidently lacks: at least according to your gratuitous public airing of her problems. Shame!

[seri thai]

See also http://hazel8500.wordpress.com/2006/08/03/...ge-in-thailand/

Another Fahrang wacko!

Where is Joseph Conrad when you need him?

When you realise the Fahrang detritus that the Thai cops deal with on a daily basis, no wonder they have some preconceptions.

You will find the same if you talk with staff from any embassy in the kingdom. I despair of being profiled as a "typical fahrang" if I ever have to sit the wrong side of an immigration or police desk for some reason.

Fortunately I have found officials a lot more courteous and understanding than their fahrang counterparts.

These people are all over the country. Adventurers, misfits and outright criminals with new identities.

A personal rule of thumb is never trust a fahrang with a double-barrel name here!

To an extent every expat who has chosen to live here has developed a new identity. Most have legitimate reasons but I wonder about the percentage of the others!

My ex-wife used to say Thailand was where people go who can't make it in the real world...

An element of truth there!

Ah well it all adds colour and excitement I suppose.

Now if the FBI were to have a poster campaign in the Fahrang enclaves!!

Don't get too excited seri thai in wonderland...the ex-pats with media profile here are usually criminal offenders or those affected by crime, because such sensation sells media audiences to advertisers. I would guess that the large majority of expat farang is reasonably content and law-abiding: many hard-working and dedicated teachers, volunteers, business-people, retirees, students, travellers, who enjoy living among Thais and relish most of what this kingdom has to offer.

You might spare a thought for Margaret Crane (Jeana) the woman who remains in gaol in Chiang Mai. Significantly, she too maintains some dignity and identity even under such deprived circumstances. She is teaching yoga to other women inmates. She is unable to make telephone calls and so cannot even speak to her children in Canada...

I know what your saying fruit bat but we all know these people when they turn up in the media and we're not at all surprised when we read the rap sheet. I never knew any criminals before I moved to Thailand. Now I seem to have met most of them! What does that tell you. I appreciate the expat community is a small pond but it sure dont lack pond life!!

Another factor is that when fahrang of dubious morality move here they see it as a fertile and unfettered environment for their proclivities. Nice to see them brought up short now and again. Funnily enough justice is a lot more karmic (or comic) here when it happens. Only problem is it seems to strike the innocent and the guilty fairly equally. Oh well-if you can't take a cosmic joke...

[dog412]

maybe we are in "purgatory", with thailand being the "state".

[hawaiianeyes]

The thread that won't die

All of the associates of this shady Dubie character with their aka's have had their 15 minutes of fame. Bottom line the lady shot the guy....don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Speaking of time, it's time for this Dubie clan to crawl back under the rocks.

The one daughter is a telemarketer? Yea the world needs a few thousand more of those.

Dear LoveDaBlues,

Seems by your call name that you should enjoy this story! So much tragedy, great material for a blues song...

As far as the point of continuing this thread, I would suggest that it is good that the "clan" can finally get out of the dark shadows that this fellow seemed to cast and have the benefit of the light of day and free, open communication to try to sort out the reality from his vast empire of illusions that spanned decades.

He spent a good deal of time telling me how each of the women of his past and present were crazy, morons etc and making me swear to NEVER EVER speak about him to one of them so as to avoid being affected by THEIR LIES. After, I fled from him and first learned of his criminal convictions, I was stunned, went to the Hawaii Department of Corrections, got copies of his files to read for myself as he had invented a full other story to explain those years. It goes on and on, but as to the question why should we care, the one thing that seemed to terrify him the most was being found out. I cannot reclaim the lost past trapped in his world of illusion, but I can reclaim my future and and peace of mind and put all these terrors to rest by shining the light of day upon it all.

Also (Schooner) as far as the children, I think the best thing the mothers can do is to sort out the truth deal with it and openly share it. These children can then escape the confusion of illusion. I think that they should be allowed to celebrate his gifts and accept and forgive his flaws to the extent possible and to be allowed to viscerally hate his actions that warrant hatred without having to choose between GPD as a total-scumbag or Daniel the-perfect-enlightened-saint.

Also there are real and unresolved issues at hand that maybe "someone who knows someone who knows someone" can address. Like what about the connection with Jon Onuma and the missing San Francisco Kristen Modefferi (Dennis Mahon site)? What about his travels to Costa Rica to set up an S corporation?

He spent a lot of time blabbing and ranting to me about disparate subjects. Some of it I find out now was very real and it disturbs me greatly. I think that even he couldn't keep all his secrets bottled up and that between the disparate members of the "clan" real questions can be answered and real and continued human suffering that was the out come of his various cons can be helped to at least some degree.

Finally, as to Jeana/Maggie, according to Fruittbatt, she is "doing time" and she is showing dignity. I do not think that she does not take responsibility for her actions. Murder is murder there is no way to deny the tragedy of loss of human life. I do reject the cartoon version of her as a crazed loser synchophant mother of 5 invitro children. In my opinion, she is a real person facing real consequences for a real action in response to years of unreality and lies. Does that absolve her of responsibility? No. Does that merit consideration? I would suggest that it does.

[Schooner]

Support and encouragament is a wonderful thing. I owe my life to people who have done it for me, but there is a point where "support" and "encouragement" begins to support the insanity instead of the growth and I walk away.

Children need examples of adults who are navigating the challanges of life and demonstrating that progress can be made. Everybody experences failures and mistakes. Most people pick themselves up and move on having learned something. Some, and I'm afraid I know too many of them, make the same mistakes over and over and over each time expecting different results. After accumulating enough self-induced failure they offically become victums and wear it like a badge of honour. They seem to go about life trying to perfect the art of being a victum. It's like some bizare career. I have been told that many have the word tattoed on the bottoms of there feet.

With so much to do in the world I choose not to waste my time on people who have proven themselves to be beyond help.

I'm sorry, but I think that investigating someone after you have had a half-a-dozen babies with them is a little late. Following a guy that you accuse of abusing you and your children half way around the world is not the act of a sane person. Like I said, I think the murder was justified, but she should be jailed for stupidity. A smart woman would have taken the gun off him, called the police, and enjoyed all the fruits that her lawyers could get from the guy for the rest of his misrable life. but, I digress

Finally, lets be real. Lets talk about what this is really about - MONEY If this guy was broke no one would care, (ok, maybe all the freaky women "victums would have to find a new excuse ) but the smell of money is in the air and the sharks are circleing.

Somebody should write a book about this saga, maybe call it "Suspitions and contradictions of karma driven freaks with multible names"

[BlackJack]

Support and encouragament is a wonderful thing. I owe my life to people who have done it for me, but there is a point where "support" and "encouragement" begins to support the insanity instead of the growth and I walk away.

Children need examples of adults who are navigating the challanges of life and demonstrating that progress can be made. Everybody experences failures and mistakes. Most people pick themselves up and move on having learned something. Some, and I'm afraid I know too many of them, make the same mistakes over and over and over each time expecting different results. After accumulating enough self-induced failure they offically become victums and wear it like a badge of honour. They seem to go about life trying to perfect the art of being a victum. It's like some bizare career. I have been told that many have the word tattoed on the bottoms of there feet.

With so much to do in the world I choose not to waste my time on people who have proven themselves to be beyond help.

I'm sorry, but I think that investigating someone after you have had a half-a-dozen babies with them is a little late. Following a guy that you accuse of abusing you and your children half way around the world is not the act of a sane person. Like I said, I think the murder was justified, but she should be jailed for stupidity. A smart woman would have taken the gun off him, called the police, and enjoyed all the fruits that her lawyers could get from the guy for the rest of his misrable life. but, I digress

Finally, lets be real. Lets talk about what this is really about - MONEY If this guy was broke no one would care, (ok, maybe all the freaky women "victums would have to find a new excuse ) but the smell of money is in the air and the sharks are circleing.

Somebody should write a book about this saga, maybe call it "Suspitions and contradictions of karma driven freaks with multible names"

har har

ditto

[LoveDaBlues]

double ditto

[mongoose]

Finally, lets be real. Lets talk about what this is really about - MONEY If this guy was broke no one would care, (ok, maybe all the freaky women "victums would have to find a new excuse ) but the smell of money is in the air and the sharks are circleing.

Interesting thought but does anybody know if he really had any significant money. My recall of the info in this thread is that an early newspaper report stated that his lawyer said he did but later another member suggested that the money was never his which might indicate he did not have much and was dependent on repeatedly hustling. Perhaps there is no money or no money that "business associates" have not already taken. Does anybody know? There are 5 children in Canada who could use some and those kids were generally well thought of during their stay in CM.