Thai council urges far stronger anti-graft penalties

[webfact]

Council urges far stronger anti-graft penalties
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Corruption laws need to be made a fiercer deterrent by scrapping the statute of limitations and imposing punishment not only on those convicted but also several generations of their families as well as their nominees, according to the Political Development Council.

President Thirapat Serirangsan said yesterday that the council on Monday proposed to the National Council for Peace and Order several measures to combat corruption, which were agreed upon by the country's key anti-graft agencies after several brainstorming sessions.

They include reforming Thais' values by passing laws such as an Integrity Pact to promote integrity among politicians and instil morality and anti-corruption culture in children, preventing bribery by punishing both givers and takers, and revamping bidding and procurement procedures.

Mega-project proposals must incorporate a corruption risk assessment and a prevention plan.

To prevent corruption in state enterprises, police and public prosecutors must not be allowed to sit on any of their boards. State enterprises must follow the same information-disclosure standards as listed companies.

Strengthening media, private sector

Anti-corruption funds must be established to strengthen the media's and private sector's roles in combating corruption and revamping laws to promote freedom of expression and civil rights and raise the standard of media professionals.

The Information Disclosure Act should be amended to facilitate public access to official records.

The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely.

The damaged party in corruption cases should be allowed to file suits directly against corrupt officials.

New laws should be issued to protect people who help check officials for irregularities, boost efficiency in prosecuting corruption cases and prohibit conflicts of interest.

To enhance the efficiency of anti-corruption agencies such as the Anti-Money Laundering Office, National Anti-Corruption Commission and Office of the Auditor-General, these agencies must be given autonomy in terms of budget and personnel management and must be able to work independently of politicians.

The junta should also sign the international convention to fight corruption, the development council says.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Council-urges-far-stronger-anti-graft-penalties-30239793.html


-- The Nation 2014-07-30

[CelticBhoy]

Never thought I'd see the day where such a thing was proposed here.

Good times ahead if it can all be followed through.

[EricBerg]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

[Pimay1]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

Should heavy penalties be levied on the children and the grandchildren of a murderer or anyone else convicted of a crime? That is ludicrous.This is a really simple concept. Don't punish people for something that they didn't do. Don't punish the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so on, for crimes they didn't commit.

[Pimay1]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

Deleted. Double post.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Pimay1

[chainarong]

The only one I am and some others are interested in is the statute of Limitations , which should read, any person who leaves the country and refuses to return , has no rights to any limitations and their passport should immediately be cancelled. End of story.

[Pib]

They include reforming Thais' values by passing laws such as an Integrity Pact to promote integrity among politicians...

I almost choked on my breakfast when reading this...laughing while eating can cause a person to choke so be sure not to read about proposed Thai anti-graft changes while eating.

[NongKhaiKid]

Never thought I'd see the day where such a thing was proposed here.

Good times ahead if it can all be followed through.

i agree with you but have one small BUT to record.

Over the years i have heard and read so many times that there's a reluctance to condemn even prosecute certain people such as politicians, VIPs etc as those in the driving seat at the time are mindful that one day they may fall foul of the law and that any consideration extended may be returned.

How much will those who can enact new laws with harsher penalties take into consideration that these new penalties might one day apply to them, family, cronies etc. and act accordingly ?

[Daffy D]

Should heavy penalties be levied on the children and the grandchildren of a murderer or anyone else convicted of a crime? That is ludicrous.This is a really simple concept. Don't punish people for something that they didn't do. Don't punish the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so on, for crimes they didn't commit.

While I generally agree I think profiting from corruption is different.

Families, in many case large extended families living a life of luxury and privilege on the illegal profits of corruption should also be held responsible.

I'm sure most would have some idea of where the extra money was coming from, but I doubt any of them ever refused the lifestyle it provided.

Also it would send a strong message that there is no profit corruption.

[klauskunkel]

The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family

This is just plain stupid...and archaic

[ChrisY1]

Wow...what a mouthful..!!

As mentioned above in previous posts.....some of the ideas are very good, while other proposals are quite silly.....

One thing that the Political Developement Council should consider, is getting some impartial, international assistance.....some of these proposals seem very knee jerk ideas.

[Cake Monster]

Corruption is about one thing only - money, and if the penalties are designed to hit hard where the nerve is rawest it will soon help to contain this rampant cancer within Thai society.

Confiscate the assets of the perps and immeadiate family if found guilty.

Immeadiate family and close friends living the life of Riley from a Som-tam business, and stating the " I didnt know this was happening " reply is not an option.

Proceeds to sustain life styles such as that, can only mean one thing, which is some kind of involvement in an illegal activity.

[tingtongteesood]

Apart from the 7 generations thing this all sounds good. They should only punish those who are responsible, but punish them real hard. If he took 10 million through corruption, take 30 million back when he is found guilty including cars, houses, amulets etc. to the value of. If this forces the family into poverty, take the kids affected by his stupidity into government care and use the money confiscated to pay for their care till age 18.

[Pimay1]

Should heavy penalties be levied on the children and the grandchildren of a murderer or anyone else convicted of a crime? That is ludicrous.This is a really simple concept. Don't punish people for something that they didn't do. Don't punish the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so on, for crimes they didn't commit.

While I generally agree I think profiting from corruption is different.

Families, in many case large extended families living a life of luxury and privilege on the illegal profits of corruption should also be held responsible.

I'm sure most would have some idea of where the extra money was coming from, but I doubt any of them ever refused the lifestyle it provided.

Also it would send a strong message that there is no profit corruption.

While I generally agree I think profiting from corruption is different.

Families, in many case large extended families living a life of luxury and privilege on the illegal profits of corruption should also be held responsible.

Point well taken. I would support a corruption law stating a conviction mandates an investigation of close and extended family members as well as employees. Gardner, cook, maid come to mind.

[Thai at Heart]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

Indeed. These proposals seem fine, but this bit is quite nutty. Visiting the crimes of the father on the child is nonsense.

[Thai at Heart]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

Indeed. These proposals seem fine, but this bit is quite nutty. Visiting the crimes of the father on the child is nonsense.

[HerbalEd]

It's good that they're talking about cleaning up corruption within government offices, politicians, police, businesses and the media. Looks like there is no need to do the same with the military.

Edited July 30, 2014 by HerbalEd

[HerbalEd]

Should heavy penalties be levied on the children and the grandchildren of a murderer or anyone else convicted of a crime? That is ludicrous.This is a really simple concept. Don't punish people for something that they didn't do. Don't punish the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so on, for crimes they didn't commit.

While I generally agree I think profiting from corruption is different.

Families, in many case large extended families living a life of luxury and privilege on the illegal profits of corruption should also be held responsible.

I'm sure most would have some idea of where the extra money was coming from, but I doubt any of them ever refused the lifestyle it provided.

Also it would send a strong message that there is no profit corruption.

Exactly how would you hold their children responsible?

[inzman]

Getting rid of the ridiculous libel law would be a good start. Then the media could report with more transparency. But the junta likes this law , soooooo.

[rickirs]

" these agencies must be given autonomy in terms of budget and personnel management and must be able to work independently of politicians."

And who watches the wacthers? These agencies will have no accountability or transparency in their operations. What is the checks and balances to ensure these agencies do not abuse their powers? Doesn't that just invite corruption? Better anti-graft policies need to be identified that would fit within the framework of a democratic society - or is that already "off the table"?

[balford]

Politicians and integrity... It just doesn't sound right. Good for a big laugh though and not just in Thailand judging by the shenanigans in Australia, USA and elsewhere...

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang

[Si Thea01]

It is refreshing to see that at least someone is thinking about reducing corruption. Remove the statute of limitations, put in harsher penalties and actually charge someone and imprison them in an attempt to put deterrents in place for others, however, to impose the law on seven generations? I am not sure.

If it can be proven that the children, I mean adult children, the wife and possibly their extended families have been actively engaged in corruption and/or have knowingly profited through the others misdeeds, then yes, subject them to the full extent of the law. It is harsh to prosecute or blacklist a felon's children, especially when they are under the age of reason or knowing right from wrong. Also, just because one person is corrupt, it does not mean their extended family is in the same boat.

It is however, well known in the west that many crime families groom their children to take over from them as they age so the authorities must be able to substantiate their actions through direct factual evidence before proceeding on and subjecting some seven generations to these laws, if they are ever implemented. There is no doubt however, that similar families exist here in Thailand and if one can prove corruption beyond a reasonable doubt and they are found guilty in a court of law, then to provide punishment of future generations through the confiscation of their assets would be a start.

However, in this day and age, the thinking criminal, not their stooges, secrete funds in various banks accounts overseas in an attempt to thwart investigators following the paper trails. Having been in law enforcement and criminal investigations for over 30 years during which time I was involved in many a successful prosecution for fraud and other money laundering offences, I noted a genuine trend of certain ethnic nationalities making huge profits through their entire familiy's criminal activitiy and no doubt this would be occurring here in Thailand.

Politicians from my country, Australia, are becoming noticeably involved in corrupt activities and through their positions, on occasions, have been able to stay under the radar. it is now known that one of our recent ex-prime ministers is alleged to have been involved in fraudulent activities, as one of the accomplices has been singing like a canary. There has recently been a number of investigations into other politicians and union leaders, a number of which have been found guilty in a court of law and given gaol time. The most recent matter was that of the prior governments' ex-speaker, he himself a lawyer, who only last week was found guilty of fraud but is yet to be sentenced. He even tried to distance himself from his actions by suggesting to the court he was suffering from depression as the time.

There are also now a number of Royal Commissions in action and maybe Thailand needs something similar where witnesses are compelled to answer questions. They should also have phone taps and the like. When I was working, we knew the answers before asking the questions owing to this aspect and the use of surveillance. None of this BS about I cannot remember or it wasn't me, I was made to do it. Also forget the inaction of the courts, where because the criminal has not had prior convictions or a term of imprisonment, they receive leniency and have the gaol time reduced to a bond. On many occasions it is just that they have not been caught before.

I'd say that Thailand, under this General, the military and the decent people that we now see acting for the benefit of the country and its people, needs to be given a go and we must understand that their culture and laws are far different from those of the west. In fact corruption has been the norm of many generations. In time, no doubt, corruption will be reduced but never eradicated and it will not occur in my life time or that of the next two or three generations. Wherever their are substantial amounts of money to be made through nefarious activities corruption will always flourish as money gives power and power corrupts. But given time and the efforts of decent people then I believe that it is possible for corruption to be reduced as will the infliction of bribery and other associated crimes. It does however, need an energetic and honest police force and one with the knowledge and experience to tackle the criminals head on and without fear or favour. Clean out those who are corrupt, give the various departments the manpower and tools to act on this and then, and only then, will the people start to reap the benefits of a lawful country. Two thing Thailand desperately needs is to get rid of the "saving face " attitude and "mai pen rai". then I believe you will see progress.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Si Thea01

[Baerboxer]

"The old law should be reinstated that levies heavy penalties on seven generations of a convict's family and extends the statute of limitations on corruption cases to 30 years or indefinitely."

Heavy penalties on seven generations... The forced repair payments by Germany after WWI were part of the cause of WW2.That took way less than seven generations. Heavy penalties for great grandchildren for something they never did will ensure quite a few to chose to live life as a criminal. Get real!

Linking WW1 reparations and the principle of holding seven generations responsible for the crimes of first is sophistry. It's like saying that executing the first generation to commit the crime and all relatives would prevent the subsequent others doing the same.

Penalizing ensuing generations and relatives is very Saddam Hussein in thinking. Threaten all the family then they will keep one another in check. Very medieval.

Extending the statute of limitations is a good idea. As would be prosecuting offenders and actually punishing them if found guilty.

[Thai at Heart]

It is refreshing to see that at least someone is thinking about reducing corruption. Remove the statute of limitations, put in harsher penalties and actually charge someone and imprison them in an attempt to put deterrents in place for others, however, to impose the law on seven generations? I am not sure.

If it can be proven that the children, I mean adult children, the wife and possibly their extended families have been actively engaged in corruption and/or have knowingly profited through the others misdeeds, then yes, subject them to the full extent of the law. It is harsh to prosecute or blacklist a felon's children, especially when they are under the age of reason or knowing right from wrong. Also, just because one person is corrupt, it does not mean their extended family is in the same boat.

It is however, well known in the west that many crime families groom their children to take over from them as they age so the authorities must be able to substantiate their actions through direct factual evidence before proceeding on and subjecting some seven generations to these laws, if they are ever implemented. There is no doubt however, that similar families exist here in Thailand and if one can prove corruption beyond a reasonable doubt and they are found guilty in a court of law, then to provide punishment of future generations through the confiscation of their assets would be a start.

However, in this day and age, the thinking criminal, not their stooges, secrete funds in various banks accounts overseas in an attempt to thwart investigators following the paper trails. Having been in law enforcement and criminal investigations for over 30 years during which time I was involved in many a successful prosecution for fraud and other money laundering offences, I noted a genuine trend of certain ethnic nationalities making huge profits through their entire familiy's criminal activitiy and no doubt this would be occurring here in Thailand.

Politicians from my country, Australia, are becoming noticeably involved in corrupt activities and through their positions, on occasions, have been able to stay under the radar. it is now known that one of our recent ex-prime ministers is alleged to have been involved in fraudulent activities, as one of the accomplices has been singing like a canary. There has recently been a number of investigations into other politicians and union leaders, a number of which have been found guilty in a court of law and given gaol time. The most recent matter was that of the prior governments' ex-speaker, he himself a lawyer, who only last week was found guilty of fraud but is yet to be sentenced. He even tried to distance himself from his actions by suggesting to the court he was suffering from depression as the time.

There are also now a number of Royal Commissions in action and maybe Thailand needs something similar where witnesses are compelled to answer questions. They should also have phone taps and the like. When I was working, we knew the answers before asking the questions owing to this aspect and the use of surveillance. None of this BS about I cannot remember or it wasn't me, I was made to do it. Also forget the inaction of the courts, where because the criminal has not had prior convictions or a term of imprisonment, they receive leniency and have the gaol time reduced to a bond. On many occasions it is just that they have not been caught before.

I'd say that Thailand, under this General, the military and the decent people that we now see acting for the benefit of the country and its people, needs to be given a go and we must understand that their culture and laws are far different from those of the west. In fact corruption has been the norm of many generations. In time, no doubt, corruption will be reduced but never eradicated and it will not occur in my life time or that of the next two or three generations. Wherever their are substantial amounts of money to be made through nefarious activities corruption will always flourish as money gives power and power corrupts. But given time and the efforts of decent people then I believe that it is possible for corruption to be reduced as will the infliction of bribery and other associated crimes. It does however, need an energetic and honest police force and one with the knowledge and experience to tackle the criminals head on and without fear or favour. Clean out those who are corrupt, give the various departments the manpower and tools to act on this and then, and only then, will the people start to reap the benefits of a lawful country. Two thing Thailand desperately needs is to get rid of the "saving face " attitude and "mai pen rai". then I believe you will see progress.

Since corruption is related to money, then it is very simple to punish these people with custodial sentences. However, what should the financical penalty be?

By punishing the financial benefit, of course, one ends up punishing family and children also. For me, 5 times the amount that was stolen is simple. Of course, this would probably mean that politicians might find it very unlikely that they would get married. But in Thailand assets of husband are considered joint if acquired in marriage. So, husband and wife should be jointly on the hook for the financial damage. Thus the missus has an incentive to be honest because she would stand to lose a lot also. Anything purchased by a direct descendant during a politicans tenure should be considered the assets of the politican.

Then ALL tax records should be part of public record. How does one buy houses and property on a govt salary?