Academics recruited to NLA share anti-Thaksin outlook

[SICHONSTEVE]

Please tell me how, in less than 2 years (when Abhisit DID improve their lives) equates to over a decade of Thaksin dominated rule/failure of the poor?? 

 Just take the rice schemes, for comparison, we all know about Thaksin's disaster but Abhisit's was a responsible and sensible scheme that was affordable and helped the farmers. It was never going to make them rich (as Thaksin lied to them about with his ill fated scam), but it ironed out the volatility of prices so that they could cope with the bad times when the price of rice went down!!

 He made healthcare free before Yingluck made them pay for it again.

 Abhisit raised the term of free schooling from 12 to 15 years old ( initiated from the age of 3). Not bad in such a short tenure compared to the disgraceful corruption, judicial killings of innocent people and muslims and lies that he and his clan perpetrated throughout his 12 years of raping and pillaging of Thailand!! 

[Fat Haggis]

Oh and I am not defending the regime in the slightest you keep missing the parts where I've stated I couldn't care less about the Shins or the PTP.

Khonkaen the pushing there family out is a figure of speech as in I hope that their rights to vote are heard and that the negativie comments from the Hi So's and some here stop being so derogarive to the Issan people.

reconciliation starts with educating the elite the likes of Chitpas and her disdain for the Issan people. Accept them as equals is what I'd like to see above all.

Have the terrorist attacks stopped?? Oh dear oh dear oh dear how ignorant are you to diss the attacks that have been ongoing down South since way way before the Shin Regime was ousted the killings and maiming have continued with more frequency than the reds who carried out similar acts, but it's very clear that a terrorist isn't a terrorist unless he's a red one!!!

[khunken]

 

 

 

 

 
 Brilliant news!!!
 
 Eliminate Thaksin/Yingluck and their cronies with all the damage that they have caused, from Thai life for the betterment of Thailand and it's people.
 
 I have to say that what General Prayuth has done to date exceeds all of my expectations and statues of him shouldn't be too far off as he has radically changed the whole substance of Thai life in a few short months. I even agree with what he has done with the press and media.

You think this is going to put the genie back in the bottle. Banning Thaksin and insisting that Thailand go back to some rose tinted era isn't going to be enough.


There are some murmurs of reform, pensions for farmers and even a land tax. But really there are still at least 10mn farmers living not much more than hand to mouth.

So let's see how far this reform goes because trying to eradicate Thaksin without replacing him with something or someone else isn't going to work.
 

 
 Yes!! removing every semblance of Thaksinism will promote all Thai's wellbeing and moving forward (not backwards) will get Thailand back on it's feet again, just in time for ASEAN.
 
 Ask yourself just why 10 million farmers are having to eek out a living in order to care for their family, even to survive - general Prayuth has eradicated the Shinawatra's from peoples lives and given them hope. It is PRECISELY the medicine that was needed and will bare much fruit.
 
 He is doing an outstandingly good job in seemingly impossible circumstances and he has my utmost respect and thanks for what he is/doing/has done!! I just hope that he stands for PM as he must be the biggest shoe-in going and deserves his chance to continue improving the lives of Thais and good fortune of Thailand!!.
 
 Viva Prayuth, saviour of the LOS (the smiles will return to their faces) - I hope that Thaksin rots in hell and Yingluck accompanies 'dear brother'!!

They have been feeling out an existence for decades. Love it or loathe it, Thaksin had the love of the poor and the farmers.


You are incredibly naive. I await to see what the junta and presumably the democrats come up with to truly benefit the poor. They have been trying for many decades and not really achieved very much at all.

 

 

He's not the only one suffering from naivety. Yes, the red shirts loved Thaksin as he is the one who created them but they are not 'The Poor' and nor are they 'The Farmers'.

 

Issan and much of the north were manipulated into voting for Thaksin & his various parties by various means including vote buying, local leaders also being bought to control the masses and a massive propaganda machine. Red shirt villages (another means of enforcing the voters) have been all but dismantled.

 

I also strongly suspect that a great many farmers (maybe not the majority, but enough to make a difference) have been rudely awakened to the fact that they were just tools of a government who, when push came to shove, didn't give a sh*t about them.

 

We don't know how this junta rule will play out. They are, however, streets ahead of the last lot and I'm cautiously optimistic that they'll leave Thailand in a better state than when they took over.

 

[SICHONSTEVE]

 Actually Ken, I am not suffering from naivety at all - HE is the only one who is showing his credentials in this respect!!!

[khunken]

Oh and I am not defending the regime in the slightest you keep missing the parts where I've stated I couldn't care less about the Shins or the PTP.

Khonkaen the pushing there family out is a figure of speech as in I hope that their rights to vote are heard and that the negativie comments from the Hi So's and some here stop being so derogarive to the Issan people.

reconciliation starts with educating the elite the likes of Chitpas and her disdain for the Issan people. Accept them as equals is what I'd like to see above all.

Have the terrorist attacks stopped?? Oh dear oh dear oh dear how ignorant are you to diss the attacks that have been ongoing down South since way way before the Shin Regime was ousted the killings and maiming have continued with more frequency than the reds who carried out similar acts, but it's very clear that a terrorist isn't a terrorist unless he's a red one!!!

 

Oh you're not overtly supporting PTP et al, but it's not hard to detect the bias there Mr Fat.

 

I haven't seen any posts on this thread being derogative to Isan people -  some hitting at the red shirts & deservedly so as they do not represent anyone but themselves. Of course there are arrogant hi-sos (so-and-sos) who denigrate the poorer people as uneducated riff-raff & another one is Plodprasop (Mr propellor-head) a 'fine' elite member of PTP.

 

Now you introduce the deep south which the topic and discussion do far has not been about. The level of militant activity there was low until Thaksin came to power and turned the all-embracing peace keeping body upside-down and that, together with his murderous 'war on drugs' triggered off an explosion (no pun intended) of militant activity there. I can provide a link to an article written about it if you want (which I doubt).

 

Finally you are totally off-beam about your one-sided terrorist claim. The yellow shirts who shut down parliament and occupied the airports are described as terrorists and so are some of the militants in the south. You have a lot to learn about the recent events and history of Thailand Fat Haggis. Two years is not enough.

 

[khunken]

 Actually Ken, I am not suffering from naivety at all - HE is the only one who is showing his credentials in this respect!!!

 

Sorry Steve, I didn't mean to imply that you did - wrong phraseology.

[hyperdimension]

Big parts of the population (the majority) have voted for the red shirt politicians. They can't just be ignored if you want to create a stable democracy.

 

I think a large proportion of the masses voted for the extremely attractive populist policies (e.g. one-tablet-PC-per-child, 300 baht per day minimum wage, 15k baht payment per ton of rice) and not so much for the "red shirt politicians" themselves or their ideologies. The proportion wasn't technically a majority of the population either, as the definition of "majority" is 50% or more.

[bobmac10]

 

 

 

Thaksin is just a symbol used in a fight.

 

The real fight is a fight between the old powers and the poor masses.

Basically the old powers don't want to give full democratic rights to the poor masses, because they would loose power.

Thaksin is used as an excuse for not giving democratic rights to the poor masses.

 

Even if there would be no Thaksin, the conflict would still be there, but the old powers would have to choose a different symbol to fight.

 

 

I absolutely agree.

I listened to the general's speech last night.

It was full of soothing words about ensuring an inclusive reconcilliation between the opposing political camps.

Now this.

This coup and the previous coup were all about pulling power away from the masses who supported Thaksin and a more modern Thailand and giving it back to the people who have run Thailand from the start.

Who are they?

It's the old Bangkok families. The "old guard" born into privilege, with obscene wealth obtained from hundreds of years of titled land ownership, warrants granted to them to run the first industrialised businesses, (remember Thailand supported Japan during the second world war).

This aristocracy have their tentacles into every facet of the Thai economy.

Thaksin came from the North, he started his own business outside of the establishment, made billions in satelite communications before he entered politics, didn't owe the old guard any favours.

When he was elected he began freeing up the economy, allowing the poor to borrow for business, allowing children from poor rural families to get a university education.

And worst of all, began to tell the army what to do (as we do in the West). Too much change too fast.

He threatened the status quo and they had to act.

The problem for the general is that he doesn't understand, you cant put the genie back into the bottle.

They might turn back the clock for 20-30 years, but in the end Bangkok isn't Thailand and the people there who suck up to this regime (read educated government employees) don't have the slightest clue what the rest of the Thai population think or want.

They are living in a fantasy bubble with money supplied by the establishment.

The people will wait patiently at first then if there's not real change and real opportunities for the rural poor, there could be a violent revolution here.

At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

 

 

 

Just to show how wrong this post is, one example:

 

Thaksin came from the North, he started his own business outside of the establishment, made billions in satelite communications before he entered politics, didn't owe the old guard any favours.

 

Sunthorn Kongsompong, the general that ousted democratically elected PM Chatchai Chunhawan in the 1991 coup handed Thaksin not just a concession, but a monopoly on satellite communications. He made his billions by using his wife's family patronage network to  gain a monopoly in providing computer services to the police (while he was still a policeman), then by getting a cell phone monopoy from a military junta, and then the satellite monopoly.

Old fashioned cronysm, not by some fabled business genious and very much by seeking and paying back favours. Sunthon had 150 million dollars to his name when he died, not bad for someone on a general's salary.

 

 

So you're saying that thaksin supports coups when he is able to make billions of baht off them, but denounces them when he looses his ability to make billions of baht. 

 

The Right Honorable Ahbisit denounced all 3 coups since 1991. Thaksin denounced 2.

 

then by getting a cell phone monopoy from a military junta,

 

Why did I quote that? Lets get onto that later. It refers to what is highlighted in red below because some have memories like goldfish when it comes to thaksin and the PTP. 

 

When he was elected he began freeing up the economy, allowing the poor to borrow for business,

 

I assume you refer to the one village fund? The fund was supposed to be used as a tool to reduce loan sharks. Nevertheless, instead of reducing them, it ended up exacerbating the effect. The need for borrowers to pay back their loans quickly (within a year) to the government after receiving loans from the fund caused borrowers to look to loan sharks for more loans to pay back previous loans. Although most households did pay back loans, they did so by borrowing from other sources. They even borrowed from the fund to pay back other debts by loan sharks which was not its intended purpose.

 

Household debt had gone up almost 100 percent from 2002 to 2004. It significantly increased from 68,405 Baht in 2000 (before TRT came to power) to 110,133 Baht in the first quarter of 2004.

 

Another problem was that the duration in which debtors had to pay back loans was too short (one year), and thus borrowers were unable to make use of loans. Especially in impoverished areas, people had limited loans of no more than 20,000 Baht. 

 

Income inequality also got worse after the implementation of the program, due mainly to the manner in which the money was distributed: it was not sent directly to the poor. Around 90% of those receiving loans were categorized as non-poor and the poor had the lowest access to funding in all regions, except Bangkok. Among the poor, 6.53% of the extremely poor had access to the loans. 

 

While the Village Fund program was able to increase household expenditures, households failed to utilize loans they received for investment purposes, which would have helped generate more jobs and incomes. Household expenditure increased from 189,258 Baht to 203,635 Baht or 7.6% increase compared to the period before the program began.

 

In addition, the program was designed without developing a plan on how the loans should be used by debtors, and as a result, most household expenditures were spent on non-consumption expenditure. The Chamber of Commerce’s findings showed that 40% of the fund was used to repay debt, 20% for luxuries, and 5% for productive investment. Clearly, the majority of people who took loans from the scheme did not use money to invest in their farms or businesses; instead they used loans to buy commodities that were beyond the means of decent subsistence, such as motorcycles, electronic devices, and cell phones. Thaksin being the sole distributor of mobile phones at the time essentially gave tax payers money to the poor who in turn gave it directly back to him!

 

Households were also not able to increase savings, despite the increase in their income. Savings stayed at the same level of 28.1% of overall expenditure,

 

Thus, it can be concluded that people did not utilize loans towards investment activities that could help them escape poverty. Which is the common theme in not only Thaksin populism, but populism worldwide. The schemes are supposed to look good, win votes, but keep them poor. If it didn't then the carrot in front of the donkey would disappear and people would vote freely based on strong political credentials, honesty, integrity and transparency.

 

Next you will say there is no corruption in the rice scheme!!!

 

So when the NLA has an anti thaksin outlook, I smile because I know that means a pro democracy outlook. 

 

 

Well, after all that one would imagine the Thai people would have voted Thaksin out at the next election.

But they didn't, they voted OVERWHELMINGLY to give him another mandate.

I'm puzzled as to why you said the honorable Abbhisit denounced coups.

What a load of old cobblers!

he was put there by the coup makers.

It doesn't matter which way you slice it.

The establishment want 100% control of this country, in every way.

They are not going to let anyone else apart from their chosen few to run the country.

They couldn't give a sh%$ for the poor.

They are not prepared to allow a government of the people.

That's why this new NLA is full of conservatives, because they are puppets who will do as they are told.

Mark my words, all this posturing by this the No 20 coup-makers will not carry one ounce of cred with the Thai rural folk.

They are already talking about what a load of bollocks it is.

Because they've seen it so many times before.

Sooner or later, these old guard will have to yield up power to the people.

The military need to focus on being a defense force, ready to fight a war with an agressor and not beating up their own people.

 

 

 

[hyperdimension]

So let's see how far this reform goes because trying to eradicate Thaksin without replacing him with something or someone else isn't going to work.

 

There shouldn't need to be any idolatry of any single person or Cult of personality as problems can arise from such a practice, especially if such idolised people are portrayed (often via propaganda) to be saviors or god-like.

[rubl]

So, apart from most Acedemics recruited being seemingly anti-Thaksin (or anti-corruption as some say) I seem to have missed comments on their academic standing and credibility. May I interpret that as all posters have no problems with those academics apart from being anti-Thaksin ? If that is so, the people who did the selecting and inviting seem to have done a good job.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed as well as a reply.

[ChrisY1]

I hope that Thaksin doesn't come back, but the fact that the new leaders are mostly part of the Suthep camp and that mainly red-shirt leaders are the ones blamed for all the deaths and injuries, clearly shows that the army is not a neutral player (and never was).

 

They are clearly preparing a "democracy???" in which one side (the red shirt side) can never win again.

 

Yes...a good move........however, the term "democracy" should be used very lightly.....at least for the forseable future

I think most would agree that the element, "red shirts"....and those with similar views as theirs, should be neutralised.............

[rubl]

 

I hope that Thaksin doesn't come back, but the fact that the new leaders are mostly part of the Suthep camp and that mainly red-shirt leaders are the ones blamed for all the deaths and injuries, clearly shows that the army is not a neutral player (and never was).
 
They are clearly preparing a "democracy???" in which one side (the red shirt side) can never win again.

 
Yes...a good move........however, the term "democracy" should be used very lightly.....at least for the forseable future
I think most would agree that the element, "red shirts"....and those with similar views as theirs, should be neutralised.............

 

Now if the red-shirts stood up for their own rights instead of those of a criminal fugitive billionair with a pretty sister, I'm sure they would have reached a better standing than currently is the case.

[khunken]

 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree.

I listened to the general's speech last night.

It was full of soothing words about ensuring an inclusive reconcilliation between the opposing political camps.

Now this.

This coup and the previous coup were all about pulling power away from the masses who supported Thaksin and a more modern Thailand and giving it back to the people who have run Thailand from the start.

Who are they?

It's the old Bangkok families. The "old guard" born into privilege, with obscene wealth obtained from hundreds of years of titled land ownership, warrants granted to them to run the first industrialised businesses, (remember Thailand supported Japan during the second world war).

This aristocracy have their tentacles into every facet of the Thai economy.

Thaksin came from the North, he started his own business outside of the establishment, made billions in satelite communications before he entered politics, didn't owe the old guard any favours.

When he was elected he began freeing up the economy, allowing the poor to borrow for business, allowing children from poor rural families to get a university education.

And worst of all, began to tell the army what to do (as we do in the West). Too much change too fast.

He threatened the status quo and they had to act.

The problem for the general is that he doesn't understand, you cant put the genie back into the bottle.

They might turn back the clock for 20-30 years, but in the end Bangkok isn't Thailand and the people there who suck up to this regime (read educated government employees) don't have the slightest clue what the rest of the Thai population think or want.

They are living in a fantasy bubble with money supplied by the establishment.

The people will wait patiently at first then if there's not real change and real opportunities for the rural poor, there could be a violent revolution here.

At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

 

 

 

Just to show how wrong this post is, one example:

 

Thaksin came from the North, he started his own business outside of the establishment, made billions in satelite communications before he entered politics, didn't owe the old guard any favours.

 

Sunthorn Kongsompong, the general that ousted democratically elected PM Chatchai Chunhawan in the 1991 coup handed Thaksin not just a concession, but a monopoly on satellite communications. He made his billions by using his wife's family patronage network to  gain a monopoly in providing computer services to the police (while he was still a policeman), then by getting a cell phone monopoy from a military junta, and then the satellite monopoly.

Old fashioned cronysm, not by some fabled business genious and very much by seeking and paying back favours. Sunthon had 150 million dollars to his name when he died, not bad for someone on a general's salary.

 

 

So you're saying that thaksin supports coups when he is able to make billions of baht off them, but denounces them when he looses his ability to make billions of baht. 

 

The Right Honorable Ahbisit denounced all 3 coups since 1991. Thaksin denounced 2.

 

then by getting a cell phone monopoy from a military junta,

 

Why did I quote that? Lets get onto that later. It refers to what is highlighted in red below because some have memories like goldfish when it comes to thaksin and the PTP. 

 

When he was elected he began freeing up the economy, allowing the poor to borrow for business,

 

I assume you refer to the one village fund? The fund was supposed to be used as a tool to reduce loan sharks. Nevertheless, instead of reducing them, it ended up exacerbating the effect. The need for borrowers to pay back their loans quickly (within a year) to the government after receiving loans from the fund caused borrowers to look to loan sharks for more loans to pay back previous loans. Although most households did pay back loans, they did so by borrowing from other sources. They even borrowed from the fund to pay back other debts by loan sharks which was not its intended purpose.

 

Household debt had gone up almost 100 percent from 2002 to 2004. It significantly increased from 68,405 Baht in 2000 (before TRT came to power) to 110,133 Baht in the first quarter of 2004.

 

Another problem was that the duration in which debtors had to pay back loans was too short (one year), and thus borrowers were unable to make use of loans. Especially in impoverished areas, people had limited loans of no more than 20,000 Baht. 

 

Income inequality also got worse after the implementation of the program, due mainly to the manner in which the money was distributed: it was not sent directly to the poor. Around 90% of those receiving loans were categorized as non-poor and the poor had the lowest access to funding in all regions, except Bangkok. Among the poor, 6.53% of the extremely poor had access to the loans. 

 

While the Village Fund program was able to increase household expenditures, households failed to utilize loans they received for investment purposes, which would have helped generate more jobs and incomes. Household expenditure increased from 189,258 Baht to 203,635 Baht or 7.6% increase compared to the period before the program began.

 

In addition, the program was designed without developing a plan on how the loans should be used by debtors, and as a result, most household expenditures were spent on non-consumption expenditure. The Chamber of Commerce’s findings showed that 40% of the fund was used to repay debt, 20% for luxuries, and 5% for productive investment. Clearly, the majority of people who took loans from the scheme did not use money to invest in their farms or businesses; instead they used loans to buy commodities that were beyond the means of decent subsistence, such as motorcycles, electronic devices, and cell phones. Thaksin being the sole distributor of mobile phones at the time essentially gave tax payers money to the poor who in turn gave it directly back to him!

 

Households were also not able to increase savings, despite the increase in their income. Savings stayed at the same level of 28.1% of overall expenditure,

 

Thus, it can be concluded that people did not utilize loans towards investment activities that could help them escape poverty. Which is the common theme in not only Thaksin populism, but populism worldwide. The schemes are supposed to look good, win votes, but keep them poor. If it didn't then the carrot in front of the donkey would disappear and people would vote freely based on strong political credentials, honesty, integrity and transparency.

 

Next you will say there is no corruption in the rice scheme!!!

 

So when the NLA has an anti thaksin outlook, I smile because I know that means a pro democracy outlook. 

 

 

Well, after all that one would imagine the Thai people would have voted Thaksin out at the next election.

But they didn't, they voted OVERWHELMINGLY to give him another mandate.

I'm puzzled as to why you said the honorable Abbhisit denounced coups.

What a load of old cobblers!

he was put there by the coup makers.

It doesn't matter which way you slice it.

The establishment want 100% control of this country, in every way.

They are not going to let anyone else apart from their chosen few to run the country.

They couldn't give a sh%$ for the poor.

They are not prepared to allow a government of the people.

That's why this new NLA is full of conservatives, because they are puppets who will do as they are told.

Mark my words, all this posturing by this the No 20 coup-makers will not carry one ounce of cred with the Thai rural folk.

They are already talking about what a load of <deleted> it is.

Because they've seen it so many times before.

Sooner or later, these old guard will have to yield up power to the people.

The military need to focus on being a defense force, ready to fight a war with an agressor and not beating up their own people.

 

 

 

 

 

It was not hard to see how Thaksin was able to manipulate a part-democratic system to become a messiah. He bought most of the NAP politicians from Isan who controlled the local head-people and insured that they had plenty of cash to get the votes. Bad or corrupt governance never entered the equation - just a teasing bribe here and there kept the poor people satisfied.

 

It is nothing more than conspiracy theory to accuse the 'coup makers' of putting Abhisit into power - you need to familiarise yourself about Newin becoming pissed off with Thaksin.

 

No party in Thailand gives a sh*t for the poor, especially Thaksin's various parties, the latest of which demonstrated their 'love' not very long ago.

 

Your criticism of the NLA uses all the old rhetorical rubbish about supposed elites (undefined of course, as Thaksin & his mob were very much elite) without any apparent understanding of the interim status of the body.

 

Lastly it is a lie to say that the current military are 'beating up their own people'. Yes it has happened before but right now they have put a stop to the murderers who were doing a lot worse than beating up Thais. They did it because the Thaksin-riddled BIB weren't enforcing the law.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by khunken

[Fat Haggis]

Ken, 2 years is long enough to know that a farangs opinion of Thai politics hold about as much weight as the late peaches geldof on an anti drugs campaign !!

I'm not bias just because I don't grab hold of the cheerleading flag like many here what I have to contribute is opinions nothing more and opinions that Thais don't care for either.
I have no interests in who supports who as I find it laughable that those who are so animated have Zero input or say in how the country is run, Thailand is best run by Thais not some farangs who feel they are an authority on the country and you would be surprised at the amount of research I've done but given that there has been so many coups it tells you that there's nobody for to run the country so it may as well be farangs with their cheerleading uniforms on.
I'm glad I would never consider myself as such, I'll support my family they can then vote whoever they want to as it means nothing to a Farang without a vote and the sooner many of you realise this, even with all these years in the country that Thailand will never change till a particular event takes place

[KevinB]

If we can imagine that there is a neutral position that we could take as: farangs / visitors / spouses or partners or friends or parents of lovely Thai people / folk who love the life style or the weather or etc. - and generally appreciate the Kingdom itself - and that is - we would like to see all the conflict in Thailand resolved once and for all - not partially but completely - not just for a while but forever (well at least for the rest of our lives). If we generically believe that - then what the original Post states - that those Academics selected for the NLA are generally not neutral and in fact are partly died in the wool Yellows and strongly anti-Thaksin - then the only rational view is that this effort at reconciliation is simply not going to work. Reconciliation - as the word implies - involves resolving the differences between people - it requires give and take - not take and take and not give and give. No matter what some of you perceive to be "the truth" - the average Thai I know "believed" that they had a "democracy" before the last two coups and that the various Governments they have had over the last couple of decades were selected by them and adequately represented them (even if some of you have different opinions).      

[khunken]

Ken, 2 years is long enough to know that a farangs opinion of Thai politics hold about as much weight as the late peaches geldof on an anti drugs campaign !!

I'm not bias just because I don't grab hold of the cheerleading flag like many here what I have to contribute is opinions nothing more and opinions that Thais don't care for either.
I have no interests in who supports who as I find it laughable that those who are so animated have Zero input or say in how the country is run, Thailand is best run by Thais not some farangs who feel they are an authority on the country and you would be surprised at the amount of research I've done but given that there has been so many coups it tells you that there's nobody for to run the country so it may as well be farangs with their cheerleading uniforms on.
I'm glad I would never consider myself as such, I'll support my family they can then vote whoever they want to as it means nothing to a Farang without a vote and the sooner many of you realise this, even with all these years in the country that Thailand will never change till a particular event takes place

 

I'll say fair enough to most of your post but the 'not bias' bit just doesn't wash.

 

You posted earlier that "but it's very clear that a terrorist isn't a terrorist unless he's a red one!!!"

 

This is patently untrue (as I pointed out) and can only be interpreted as bias. Sorry but your 'slip' is showing.

 

All the posts from Farangs are nothing but opinion and give a voice to frustrations about how screwed up many things are here. I wouldn't say that they are totally useless because one thread recently said that immigration, for example, actually monitors this site. Is that a fact? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

 

 

[Old Man River]

If we can imagine that there is a neutral position that we could take as: farangs / visitors / spouses or partners or friends or parents of lovely Thai people / folk who love the life style or the weather or etc. - and generally appreciate the Kingdom itself - and that is - we would like to see all the conflict in Thailand resolved once and for all - not partially but completely - not just for a while but forever (well at least for the rest of our lives). If we generically believe that - then what the original Post states - that those Academics selected for the NLA are generally not neutral and in fact are partly died in the wool Yellows and strongly anti-Thaksin - then the only rational view is that this effort at reconciliation is simply not going to work. Reconciliation - as the word implies - involves resolving the differences between people - it requires give and take - not take and take and not give and give. No matter what some of you perceive to be "the truth" - the average Thai I know "believed" that they had a "democracy" before the last two coups and that the various Governments they have had over the last couple of decades were selected by them and adequately represented them (even if some of you have different opinions).

The thought and hope is that the "average" Thai ultimately sees enough benefits in the current group to move on with their lives. I like Abhisit's comment right after the coup. He said Thais need to give the junta at least a year before forming opinions on whether this is good for the country. So far so good.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[northernjohn]

Ken, 2 years is long enough to know that a farangs opinion of Thai politics hold about as much weight as the late peaches geldof on an anti drugs campaign !!

I'm not bias just because I don't grab hold of the cheerleading flag like many here what I have to contribute is opinions nothing more and opinions that Thais don't care for either.
I have no interests in who supports who as I find it laughable that those who are so animated have Zero input or say in how the country is run, Thailand is best run by Thais not some farangs who feel they are an authority on the country and you would be surprised at the amount of research I've done but given that there has been so many coups it tells you that there's nobody for to run the country so it may as well be farangs with their cheerleading uniforms on.
I'm glad I would never consider myself as such, I'll support my family they can then vote whoever they want to as it means nothing to a Farang without a vote and the sooner many of you realise this, even with all these years in the country that Thailand will never change till a particular event takes place

 

Well I certainly agree with you that all we farongs can do is state are opinions.

But I disagree with you on having no feelings one way or the other. Thailand is where I live it is my home. The Thais are my neighbors. I have a Thai wife and her family of which I am a part. I care very much for the way they are treated. I do not set my self up so it is no big deal if the country goes to pieces and has to live in poverty. I want to see them have a just government descent living conditions. That is according to their standards not mine.

 

So yes I do grab hold of the cheerleading flag when I see the people being treated right for a change. Not sure what year you are living in but this is 2014  and the Army has learned from past mistakes and is taking steps to prevent as much as is possible corruption. Before they leave there will be laws in place so as Thailand will never again have a dictator living in a foreign country. I would venture to say that no more will you be a sacred cow just because parliament is in session. You will be as open for trial and prison as any other citizen.

[JAG]

Thaksin is just a symbol used in a fight.
 
The real fight is a fight between the old powers and the poor masses.
Basically the old powers don't want to give full democratic rights to the poor masses, because they would loose power.
Thaksin is used as an excuse for not giving democratic rights to the poor masses.
 
Even if there would be no Thaksin, the conflict would still be there, but the old powers would have to choose a different symbol to fight.
 

And this struggle, which has been going on for the last decade, has to be sorted soon before the inevitable happens!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gamini]

Sharing the anti-Thaksin outlook is of utmost importance. Paramount. Instead of sharing an outlook for law and order, equal justice for all, due process, freedom of speech, individual and equal opportunity for all, they are most concerned with "selecting" those holding anti-Thaksin views.

 

So according to you "The Taksin outlook" is for law and order, equal justice for all etc, etc

[3NUMBAS]

one sided cronyism at work again ,in this climate there is not much hope of reconciliation and things will just fester way into the future ,these guys are responsible for hijacking the democratic system for their own ends by violence and mayhem ,and then they criticise thaksin family .you cant fool all their followers for ever

[rametindallas]

Sharing the anti-Thaksin outlook is of utmost importance. Paramount. Instead of sharing an outlook for law and order, equal justice for all, due process, freedom of speech, individual and equal opportunity for all, they are most concerned with "selecting" those holding anti-Thaksin views.

Why does one trait have to exclude the others? In fact I see being 'anti-Thaksin' as being synonymous with law and order, equal justice for all, due process, freedom of speech, and individual and equal opportunity for all. Why can't Thailand have those things WITHOUT Thaksin? You write as if Thaksin was the only source of those things. Everyone, including you (though you would never admit it on this forum), knows that nearly all the political strife since 2008 has had Thaksin at its roots. He created, directed, funded, and appointed the leaders of the UDD, a terrorist organization as proven by all the terrorist members arrested since the coup. The DSI never even investigated crimes by the UDD so they were, in essence, the militant wing of the PTP and thus immune to prosecution. Get rid of the faux messiah to the poor and his evil minions and Thailand might have a chance to prosper. Thaksin was all propaganda (as you are) as proven by the lack of improvement, after 14 years, in the lives of the poor. He has destroyed the rice industry and driven inflation higher with his corruption-ridden populist policies. He is NOT a friend of the poor; he just used them to get the votes he needed to give himself a license to steal. All the anti-Thaksin academics being appointed will be utilized to think of ways to remove the CANCER of the Shinawatras from Thailand before it becomes malignant. Two down and a dozen to go; plus the associated diseases that were aligned with them.

[rametindallas]

Unfortunately, this does not bode well for the future of Thailand. An all inclusive group should have equal representation from all sides, and then hammer out the differences with the army watching over them but being strictly neutral. Otherwise this will only bring about a temporary truce.

Absolutely! The chickens should invite the foxes to help plan their defense against foxes in the future. The chickens are being vindictive and don't want peace with the foxes. Why won't the chickens be inclusive? 

[rametindallas]

 

 If you were to ask the average Joe/Somchai on the street what he thought about common-or-garden cults such as Jonestown,Manson family,Joe Carroll etc he would answer that he feels a mix of revulsion and ghoulish intrigue. Why then do some posters expect that neutral bystanders would have positive thoughts about the cult of Shinawat? Indeed, if any of the NLA thought it appropriate that a family of billionaire criminals are the only suitable leaders for a sovereign nation for ever, that would be the real surprise.

 

 To put it succinctly there is no place in government for a billionaire criminal cabal no matter how much they spend on global PR. End of.

The people that are selected are not just Thaksin haters - they are part of the Suthep camp.

People choosen for the NLA should be neutral, or if that's not possible, they should choose people from each side.

 

You are so right. They all do Suthep's bidding. There he is, in monk's robes pretending to be humble, secretly pulling the strings of the NCPO and telling them who to appoint to the NLA. That Suthep is so clever the way he controls everything in Thailand from a wat in Surat Thani. Reminds me of a former, fugitive felon, self-exiled PM pulling the strings of PTP.

[rametindallas]

 

Thaksin is just a symbol used in a fight.

 

The real fight is a fight between the old powers and the poor masses.

Basically the old powers don't want to give full democratic rights to the poor masses, because they would loose power.

Thaksin is used as an excuse for not giving democratic rights to the poor masses.

 

Even if there would be no Thaksin, the conflict would still be there, but the old powers would have to choose a different symbol to fight.

 

 

I absolutely agree.

I listened to the general's speech last night.

It was full of soothing words about ensuring an inclusive reconcilliation between the opposing political camps.

Now this.

This coup and the previous coup were all about pulling power away from the masses who supported Thaksin and a more modern Thailand and giving it back to the people who have run Thailand from the start.

Who are they?

It's the old Bangkok families. The "old guard" born into privilege, with obscene wealth obtained from hundreds of years of titled land ownership, warrants granted to them to run the first industrialised businesses, (remember Thailand supported Japan during the second world war).

This aristocracy have their tentacles into every facet of the Thai economy.

Thaksin came from the North, he started his own business outside of the establishment, made billions in satelite communications before he entered politics, didn't owe the old guard any favours.

When he was elected he began freeing up the economy, allowing the poor to borrow for business, allowing children from poor rural families to get a university education.

And worst of all, began to tell the army what to do (as we do in the West). Too much change too fast.

He threatened the status quo and they had to act.

The problem for the general is that he doesn't understand, you cant put the genie back into the bottle.

They might turn back the clock for 20-30 years, but in the end Bangkok isn't Thailand and the people there who suck up to this regime (read educated government employees) don't have the slightest clue what the rest of the Thai population think or want.

They are living in a fantasy bubble with money supplied by the establishment.

The people will wait patiently at first then if there's not real change and real opportunities for the rural poor, there could be a violent revolution here.

At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

 

 

 

 

At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

No one who supports the despotic Shinawatra regime should be optimistic as long as General Prayuth is in charge.

[rametindallas]

 

 If you were to ask the average Joe/Somchai on the street what he thought about common-or-garden cults such as Jonestown,Manson family,Joe Carroll etc he would answer that he feels a mix of revulsion and ghoulish intrigue. Why then do some posters expect that neutral bystanders would have positive thoughts about the cult of Shinawat? Indeed, if any of the NLA thought it appropriate that a family of billionaire criminals are the only suitable leaders for a sovereign nation for ever, that would be the real surprise.

 

 To put it succinctly there is no place in government for a billionaire criminal cabal no matter how much they spend on global PR. End of.

I agree. Can't you red fools see?  Democracy doesn't matter.  Fairness doesn't matter.  All that matters is that the hierarchy is accepted and forever established, and we should all kneel and kiss the Good General's feet, all of us, even Jesus.  Thaksin invented corruption, and a Dusit poll proved it.  He and the other mad political scientists even travelled back in time and invented malaria.  It's a fact -- just check the new history books.

 

Thaksin invented Thai corruption.

Thaksin invented kick backs .

Thaksin invented gambling and drug running and even TVF...just to confuse his opponents.

Thaksin went back in time, as before, and invented human trafficking.

Thaksin invented graft.

Thaksin invented stolen rice, all the way back to before he was born.

Thaksin, dire bugger, invented hiccups.

 

Death to the ear medicine guzzling bag toting red thug loving Dubai caddy shack serving graft inventing Shins.

 

We have a new one, just for him.  Several generations can now be held accountable for their grandfather's debts, so we now have a way to make all Thaksin's non-Thai.  

 

Put that in your pipes and smoke it!  Ah, the aroma of truth...take a good whiff.

 

Ah, the aroma of truth...take a good whiff.

I think what you are smelling is your upper lip because it sure isn't the truth. Smells like a lame attempt at sarcasm to me.

[rametindallas]

 

 

I hope that Thaksin doesn't come back, but the fact that the new leaders are mostly part of the Suthep camp and that mainly red-shirt leaders are the ones blamed for all the deaths and injuries, clearly shows that the army is not a neutral player (and never was).

 

They are clearly preparing a "democracy???" in which one side (the red shirt side) can never win again.

Kris,

 

But the red shirts were responsible for 90% of the deaths during this violence. You can't deny that anymore before you could, by saying it was self inflicted (ridiculous of course with violent animals like those red shirt militants nobody has to inflict anything on themselves). Now guns are matched fingerprints and bulets are matched. It is clear its the reds that killed the children in Trad and BKK. Itc clear that they shot grenades at the anti government protesters. How can you call getting the people responsible for violence bias. 

 

The anti government criminal elements have been arrested too and are waiting for their day in court. When the guards did thing that could not be tolerated they were handed over for prosecution. Now if anyone shown bias it was the previous government who protected the murdered of children in their ranks. (protecting terrorists is an act of terrorism). 

 

They can't create a democracy where "red shirts" cant win unless they take away the votes. They can however create a democracy where the government has to live by the rules and take into account the minority too. (kinda like a real democracy not a winner takes it all Taksin style one). 

 

With luck the anti corruption stance of the army will go on they even go after their own when they go out of line (recent news patpong). I have not seen the reds do that one time. All they seem to do is go for populist policies full of corruption that cant be sustained (rice scam). Every organisation warned them about this but they still did it.... they did not budget money for it it was cost neutral according to them but they lost 800 billion baht. (had they budgeted for it it was not a loss but just part of spending but they did not). They did not budget it because then they could not go for all the other vote buying stuff they did because by law they can't have a huge deficit in a budget. 

 

My point is they are creating a democracy where people have to play by the rules.. and that these Academics have an anti-Taksin outlook is a good thing, because if there is one thing that Taksin hated were rules that came between him and the absolute power to rape the country. 

 

Ok, fair enough.

And how about the red shirts that were shot in the 2010 uprising?

I don't see anyone going to jail for that.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I hate all extremist sides (red and yellow, Thaksin and Suthep) and I also agree there was a lot as mismanagement during the Yingluck government.  but it's very clear to me the army is choosing sides (which should not be the case in a democracy). Big parts of the population (the majority) have voted for the red shirt politicians. They can't just be ignored if you want to create a stable democracy.

 

The academics that were selected are not just anti-Thaksin (which is a good thing), but they are Pro-Suthep (which is a bad thing, taking into account the history of Suthep).

 

The Nation (an English-language newspaper in Thailand) reported on November 27, 2007:

"Of 2,500 deaths in the government's war on drugs in 2003, a fact-finding panel has found that more than half was not involved in drug at all. At a brainstorming session, a representative from the Office of Narcotics Control Board (ONCB) Tuesday disclosed that as many as 1,400 people were killed and labeled as drug suspects despite the fact that they had no link to drugs. ... Senior public prosecutor Kunlapon Ponlawan said it was not difficult to investigate extra-judicial killings carried out by police officers as the trigger-pullers usually confessed." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Thaksin_Shinawatra#Anti-drug_policies

I don't see any of these confessed murderers going to jail for those Thaksin ordered deaths.

Hypocritical, much?

 

Don't misunderstand me

No one could possibly misunderstand you. You are a die-hard, unrepentant Thaksin apologist.

 

they are Pro-Suthep

How does one go about proving/demonstrating their being pro-Suthep?

 

One thing bothers me, kriswillems. You've been a member of the forum for longer than ten years and just now you are very active. Where have you been all these years any why haven't you been sharing your brilliant insights with us all along? I notice that there are several long-standing members who seem to have come out of hibernation all of a sudden. They all seem to be Thaksin apologists/supporters. I don't quite know what to make of it. "Is a puzzlement."

Edited August 2, 2014 by rametindallas