Interesting article: Is the game up for unlicensed schools?

[pinkpanther99]

The guy who runs Ajarn.com tweeted this very interesting article. Well worth a read...

 

Is the game up for unlicensed schools?

The NCPO has decided that the ELT industry has to get its house in order

 

A cursory look at the front pages of the newspapers here shows that the Junta, aka the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), is pursuing an agenda with announcements being made almost every day. The agenda appears to be that existing laws and regulations must be enforced, and corruption and law breaking stopped and punished.

It seems Thailand is finally growing up.

I have recently read about previously untouchable mafia-type ‘influential' people being arrested and having their assets confiscated, scams in Phuket being stopped, an army general being arrested for extortion, visa rules for foreigners are being strictly enforced and the rice mortgage fiasco is finally being audited. People who break Thai laws are now being held accountable.

One of their next targets is unlicensed formal and non-formal private schools.

Below is a translation of a document originally sent from the NCPO to the Office of the Private Education Commission (OPEC) dated July 22nd, 2014 ordering OPEC to act against unlicensed schools. The original document hasn't been released publicly. I forwarded a scan of the original document to this website in order to authenticate the document and its translation.

Translation of the content:

According to the reference letter sent to the Head of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) requesting them to consider schools running without permission, the Office of the Permanent Secretary, the Prime Minister's Office has received this issue from NCPO. This complaint has been forwarded to the Office of the Private Education Commission (OPEC) because it has authority and responsibility regarding this issue.

Regarding the progress of the actions, its results will be reported by OPEC directly to the Office of the Permanent Secretary, the Prime Minister's Office, Government House. In addition, all the evidence submitted with the reference letter has been officially recorded.

Submitted for your acknowledgement

The NCPO isn't pursuing any specific agenda with regards to English Language Teaching (ELT), but it is looking to enforce the law more stringently on education businesses that are operating without the correct licenses and documentation.

The law regarding operating a privately-owned non-formal school in Thailand is clear:

The Private Education Act - Formal and Non-formal Schools (December 30th, 2007) applies to individuals, foundations and companies that have taught or trained more than 7 students in total from the date that individual, foundation or company started teaching or training .

From an English-language translation of this act:

Section 18. The establishment of a Formal School shall require a license from the Licensor. Application for and issuance of a license for each category and level shall be in accordance with the rules, procedures and conditions prescribed in the ministerial regulations. The applicant for the license shall attach to the application the School Charter and details relating to such Formal School's business.

Section 130. Any person who establishes a Formal School without obtaining permission under Section 18 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht, or both.

Section 120. The establishment of a Non-formal School shall require a license from the Licensor. Category and nature of a Non-formal School including the provision of learning, teaching and curricula of the Non-formal School shall be as prescribed by the Commission, and published the Government Gazette.

Section 147. Any person who establishes a Non-formal School without permission in accordance with Section 120 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht, or both.

It is clear from the above that ELT course providers in Thailand must have a school license which is granted by the Ministry of Education (MoE). Enforcing current laws and regulations will lead to a more supervised and professional industry.

 

What is an unlicensed school?

An unlicensed school is of course any school that does not have a license or is not in the process of obtaining one. The requirements to gain a license are becoming more and more exacting so it is possible that an unlicensed school is in the process of obtaining a license and bureaucracy in Thailand is little different to bureaucracy anywhere else.

Why do unlicensed schools ignore licensing laws and regulations?

Well, it is (was) far easier and cheaper to just open a 'school' and not comply with education law and regulations. In addition, unlicensed schools are less likely to be paying the appropriate amount of tax to the government.

 

 

here is the rest: http://www.ajarn.com/ajarn-guests/articles/is-the-game-up-for-unlicensed-schools

 

 

[thailiketoo]

Ya I can see that.  If I was going to scam people I would avoid the obvious choices of drugs and gambling and fraud schemes and start a phony school teaching English.  Big bucks from the kids paying some back packer 20 baht an hour to teach them how to play games on the internet.  

[casualbiker]

It would / should also include all the Thai cram schools. And it is they that generally charge 20b per hour.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited August 2, 2014 by casualbiker

[Loaded]

Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.

 

Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Loaded

[brucetefl]

My wife was formerly the president of the Rayong Non-formal education Association.  It was commonly known that roughly half of the schools in Rayong were unlicensed and... no one really cared.  Including the MOE.

[Scott]

Thanks for posting it.   

[brucetefl]

Actually, to my knowledge and according to what I have been told by the MOE, there are only three non-formal registered Teacher Training organizations in Thailand.  ECC, TEFL International and Text & Talk.  After these three were registered, the MOE did not allow any more, stating that Teacher Training should be conducted by universities.  

 

Those claiming to be registered are registered as English schools and run TESOL training without official approval--something that the MOE may decide to crack down on along if they have chosen to enforce the laws.

 

 

Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.

 

Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.

 

[Loaded]

Actually, to my knowledge and according to what I have been told by the MOE, there are only three non-formal registered Teacher Training organizations in Thailand.  ECC, TEFL International and Text & Talk.  After these three were registered, the MOE did not allow any more, stating that Teacher Training should be conducted by universities.  

 

Those claiming to be registered are registered as English schools and run TESOL training without official approval--something that the MOE may decide to crack down on along if they have chosen to enforce the laws.

 

 

Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.

 

Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.

 

 

There's only one school in Thailand that I'm aware of that has evidence on its website that it has permission from the MoE to run TEFL courses. That is SEE TEFL in Chiang Mai. Here's their evidence:

 

http://seetefl.com/accreditation/

 

They have a scan of their permission from the MoE linked. It couldn't be clearer.

 

I'm sure T&T and EEC are also licensed because they've been around so long, but TEFL International closed their school in Ban Phe, Rayong a few years ago. I thought the school license dies with the school Bruce?

[brucetefl]

Although we no longer operate the TEFL training in Ban Phe, the school still has activity and is officially open.  Therefore licenses are still valid.  And, by agreement, we have given permission to the other TEFL International centers to operate under our license.  

 

Thanks for the info on See.  When visiting the MOE in Bangkok they never mentioned See having a license, just us, ECC and Text & Talk.  And they told us, in hindsight, that they wish they had never given us this permission.  Teacher training should be provided by universities, according to the MOE.  But they also could not revoke our licenses! 

 

Looking at the link you provided shows they are licensed with the MOE but not that they have permission to conduct Teacher Training.  As with most TEFL training centers in Thailand, from the appearances, it seems they are a language school operating the TEFL on the side without official permission.  

 

I could very well be wrong.  But I don't think I am.  Wouldn't be the first time, though.

 

To be honest I never made a big deal about our rare official permission because the MOE certainly were not closing down the centers that basically have sprung up like weeds over the last 15 years.  What was the point of raising a big fuss over the issue?  No one seemed to care.

Edited August 2, 2014 by brucetefl

[thailiketoo]

From the guy who wrote the story below writes

 

Unlicensed schools have an unfair financial advantage competing against licensed schools that comply with all national laws and regulations. It's not fair. Schools that obey laws are indirectly penalized by having higher operating costs. Licensed schools do not mind if currently unlicensed schools now register with the MoE. They just want a level playing field.

 

As the director of a licensed non-formal private school, I feel this enforcement of the Private Education Act is long overdue. Hopefully within the next few months, our industry will be cleaned up and subsequently more stringently regulated. This surely is positive for our students and futures as ELT teachers and trainers in the Land of Smiles.

John Quinn

 

http://www.ajarn.com/ajarn-guests/articles/is-the-game-up-for-unlicensed-schools

 

I would wonder about the self interest of the author John Quinn. 

 

So to add everything up.  1.  A private memo that has not been made public or seen by any others for corroboration.  2.  A story from a guy running a licensed school who feels unfairly put upon by the unlicensed competition. 

 

The guy above has a vested interest in putting unlicensed schools out of business.  Hardly objective reporting. 

 

 

[thailiketoo]

Although we no longer operate the TEFL training in Ban Phe, the school still has activity and is officially open.  Therefore licenses are still valid.  And, by agreement, we have given permission to the other TEFL International centers to operate under our license.  

 

Thanks for the info on See.  When visiting the MOE in Bangkok they never mentioned See having a license, just us, ECC and Text & Talk.  And they told us, in hindsight, that they wish they had never given us this permission.  Teacher training should be provided by universities, according to the MOE.  But they also could not revoke our licenses! 

 

Looking at the link you provided shows they are licensed with the MOE but not that they have permission to conduct Teacher Training.  As with most TEFL training centers in Thailand, from the appearances, it seems they are a language school operating the TEFL on the side without official permission.  

 

I could very well be wrong.  But I don't think I am.  Wouldn't be the first time, though.

 

To be honest I never made a big deal about our rare official permission because the MOE certainly were not closing down the centers that basically have sprung up like weeds over the last 15 years.  What was the point of raising a big fuss over the issue?  No one seemed to care.

The guy who wrote the article quoted in the OP is John Quinn what is the name of his licensed school?

 

[casualbiker]

Although we no longer operate the TEFL training in Ban Phe, the school still has activity and is officially open.  Therefore licenses are still valid.  And, by agreement, we have given permission to the other TEFL International centers to operate under our license.  
 
Thanks for the info on See.  When visiting the MOE in Bangkok they never mentioned See having a license, just us, ECC and Text & Talk.  And they told us, in hindsight, that they wish they had never given us this permission.  Teacher training should be provided by universities, according to the MOE.  But they also could not revoke our licenses! 
 
Looking at the link you provided shows they are licensed with the MOE but not that they have permission to conduct Teacher Training.  As with most TEFL training centers in Thailand, from the appearances, it seems they are a language school operating the TEFL on the side without official permission.  
 
I could very well be wrong.  But I don't think I am.  Wouldn't be the first time, though.
 
To be honest I never made a big deal about our rare official permission because the MOE certainly were not closing down the centers that basically have sprung up like weeds over the last 15 years.  What was the point of raising a big fuss over the issue?  No one seemed to care.

The guy who wrote the article quoted in the OP is John Quinn what is the name of his licensed school?

 

Seetefl.


Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[casualbiker]

Actually, to my knowledge and according to what I have been told by the MOE, there are only three non-formal registered Teacher Training organizations in Thailand.  ECC, TEFL International and Text & Talk.  After these three were registered, the MOE did not allow any more, stating that Teacher Training should be conducted by universities.  
 
Those claiming to be registered are registered as English schools and run TESOL training without official approval--something that the MOE may decide to crack down on along if they have chosen to enforce the laws.
 
 

Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.
 
Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.

 

 
There's only one school in Thailand that I'm aware of that has evidence on its website that it has permission from the MoE to run TEFL courses. That is SEE TEFL in Chiang Mai. Here's their evidence:
 
http://seetefl.com/accreditation/
 
They have a scan of their permission from the MoE linked. It couldn't be clearer.
 
I'm sure T&T and EEC are also licensed because they've been around so long, but TEFL International closed their school in Ban Phe, Rayong a few years ago. I thought the school license dies with the school Bruce?

My wife read that document scan and thinks that it is a license to teach English language. It doesn't seem to state anything about teaching TEFL or teaching English as a second language. Interesting!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Loaded]

 

 

Actually, to my knowledge and according to what I have been told by the MOE, there are only three non-formal registered Teacher Training organizations in Thailand.  ECC, TEFL International and Text & Talk.  After these three were registered, the MOE did not allow any more, stating that Teacher Training should be conducted by universities.  
 
Those claiming to be registered are registered as English schools and run TESOL training without official approval--something that the MOE may decide to crack down on along if they have chosen to enforce the laws.
 
 

Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.
 
Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.

 
There's only one school in Thailand that I'm aware of that has evidence on its website that it has permission from the MoE to run TEFL courses. That is SEE TEFL in Chiang Mai. Here's their evidence:
 
http://seetefl.com/accreditation/
 
They have a scan of their permission from the MoE linked. It couldn't be clearer.
 
I'm sure T&T and EEC are also licensed because they've been around so long, but TEFL International closed their school in Ban Phe, Rayong a few years ago. I thought the school license dies with the school Bruce?

My wife read that document scan and thinks that it is a license to teach English language. It doesn't seem to state anything about teaching TEFL or teaching English as a second language. Interesting!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Well, this is the translation

 

"Permission Certificate

 

License number CM.01-050/2554. Office

                                    Written at Chiang Ma I Area 1 Education Office

Date 30st June B.E. 2554

 

Referred to the letter of request number GOV 048/2011. Dated 4th April B.E.2554

 

By Mrs. Wilaiwan Wannachotpawate Quinn  Position. School Licensee

 

School. English as a Foreign Language Chiangmai ( Lanna) School  สอนภาษาต่างประเทศเชียงใหม่ (ลานนา) Effective Foreing Languages Chiangmai (Lanna) School

 

Subject. To add new curriculum in a non-formal school  Type. Vocational

 

Permission to run Teaching English as a Foreign Language Currculum, attached its detail.

 

From 4th April B.E. 2554

 

Authorized by Mr. Kosol Prakham (Director)

Chiang Ma I Area 1 Education Office"

 

It seems clear to me. They have official permission to run TEFL courses. Full stop.

 

[Loaded]

From the guy who wrote the story below writes

 

Unlicensed schools have an unfair financial advantage competing against licensed schools that comply with all national laws and regulations. It's not fair. Schools that obey laws are indirectly penalized by having higher operating costs. Licensed schools do not mind if currently unlicensed schools now register with the MoE. They just want a level playing field.

 

As the director of a licensed non-formal private school, I feel this enforcement of the Private Education Act is long overdue. Hopefully within the next few months, our industry will be cleaned up and subsequently more stringently regulated. This surely is positive for our students and futures as ELT teachers and trainers in the Land of Smiles.

John Quinn

 

http://www.ajarn.com/ajarn-guests/articles/is-the-game-up-for-unlicensed-schools

 

I would wonder about the self interest of the author John Quinn. 

 

So to add everything up.  1.  A private memo that has not been made public or seen by any others for corroboration.  2.  A story from a guy running a licensed school who feels unfairly put upon by the unlicensed competition. 

 

The guy above has a vested interest in putting unlicensed schools out of business.  Hardly objective reporting. 

 

 

 

Ajarn wouldn't allow a blog like this without evidence. He said he submitted evidence to the website.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Loaded

[Loaded]

 

 

 

 

It's always a good idea to be skeptical in Thailand. Nobody really knows what will happen. He actually wrote that current laws will be enforced. Is that such a bad thing? Let's see what happens over the next few weeks and then report back here.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[thailiketoo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's always a good idea to be skeptical in Thailand. Nobody really knows what will happen. He actually wrote that current laws will be enforced. Is that such a bad thing? Let's see what happens over the next few weeks and then report back here.

I think the key part of the thread is that only his school and a couple of others are licensed and that is not true in my experience.  Get that Walen guy on and ask him.  I know a couple of Thai people who applied for and were granted licenses a few years ago but I've been out of touch with them for a while so can't really say about now.  I'd check the facts like Thai Visa did when the interviewed the immigration guy in Bangkok to get the real story.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Scott

[brucetefl]

So the guy who wrote the article is the owner of See TEFL?  

 

So where is the mob with pitch forks and torches?  If I pulled an underhanded stunt like this the TEFL crowd would be outraged!

 

Honestly, is he trying to get competitors shut down?  Pathetic.

 

And I obviously was not looking at the right place for their MOE permission.  I did not see it, but stand corrected.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by brucetefl

[Loaded]

So the guy who wrote the article is the owner of See TEFL?  

 

So where is the mob with pitch forks and torches?  If I pulled an underhanded stunt like this the TEFL crowd would be outraged!

 

Honestly, is he trying to get competitors shut down?  Pathetic.

 

And I obviously was not looking at the right place for their MOE permission.  I did not see it, but stand corrected.

 

 

 

He's writing about unlicensed - IE illegal - competition Bruce. Surely a good thing as you are licensed as well.
 

[brucetefl]

Its called self serving.  

 

Let the MOE do their job and run a good TEFL course (or whatever kind of course you run).  Whining about your competition is just sad.

 

 

[thailiketoo]

 

So the guy who wrote the article is the owner of See TEFL?  

 

So where is the mob with pitch forks and torches?  If I pulled an underhanded stunt like this the TEFL crowd would be outraged!

 

Honestly, is he trying to get competitors shut down?  Pathetic.

 

And I obviously was not looking at the right place for their MOE permission.  I did not see it, but stand corrected.

 

 

 

He's writing about unlicensed - IE illegal - competition Bruce. Surely a good thing as you are licensed as well.
 

 

What do you figure his motivation for writing is? 

[brucetefl]

 

 

So the guy who wrote the article is the owner of See TEFL?  

 

So where is the mob with pitch forks and torches?  If I pulled an underhanded stunt like this the TEFL crowd would be outraged!

 

Honestly, is he trying to get competitors shut down?  Pathetic.

 

And I obviously was not looking at the right place for their MOE permission.  I did not see it, but stand corrected.

 

 

 

He's writing about unlicensed - IE illegal - competition Bruce. Surely a good thing as you are licensed as well.
 

 

What do you figure his motivation for writing is? 

 

Ummm.... for the betterment of Thailand and its people.   :)

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by brucetefl

[Loaded]

lol

[casualbiker]

[quote name="Loaded" post="8189266" timestamp="1406987307"][quote name="casualbiker" post="8189084" timestamp="1406984709"] [quote name="Loaded" post="8188492" timestamp="1406976057"] [quote name="brucetefl" post="8188412" timestamp="1406974742"]Actually, to my knowledge and according to what I have been told by the MOE, there are only three non-formal registered Teacher Training organizations in Thailand.  ECC, TEFL International and Text & Talk.  After these three were registered, the MOE did not allow any more, stating that Teacher Training should be conducted by universities.  
 
Those claiming to be registered are registered as English schools and run TESOL training without official approval--something that the MOE may decide to crack down on along if they have chosen to enforce the laws.
 
 [quote name="Loaded" post="8187204" timestamp="1406959381"]Non-formal schools include language, cooking, dress making, massage and teacher training.
 
Most are licensed but there is a significant number that are not. They have been getting away with it for years. With ASEAN opening up next year, Thailand has decided to get its house in order.[/quote][/quote] 
There's only one school in Thailand that I'm aware of that has evidence on its website that it has permission from the MoE to run TEFL courses. That is SEE TEFL in Chiang Mai. Here's their evidence:
 
http://seetefl.com/accreditation/
 
They have a scan of their permission from the MoE linked. It couldn't be clearer.
 
I'm sure T&T and EEC are also licensed because they've been around so long, but TEFL International closed their school in Ban Phe, Rayong a few years ago. I thought the school license dies with the school Bruce?[/quote]
My wife read that document scan and thinks that it is a license to teach English language. It doesn't seem to state anything about teaching TEFL or teaching English as a second language. Interesting!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app
 [/quote]
Well, this is the translation
 
"Permission Certificate
 
License number CM.01-050/2554. Office
                                    Written at Chiang Ma I Area 1 Education Office
Date 30st June B.E. 2554
 
Referred to the letter of request number GOV 048/2011. Dated 4th April B.E.2554
 
By Mrs. Wilaiwan Wannachotpawate Quinn  Position. School Licensee
 
School. English as a Foreign Language Chiangmai ( Lanna) School  สอนภาษาต่างประเทศเชียงใหม่ (ลานนา) Effective Foreing Languages Chiangmai (Lanna) School
 
Subject. To add new curriculum in a non-formal school  Type. Vocational
 
Permission to run Teaching English as a Foreign Language Currculum, attached its detail.
 
From 4th April B.E. 2554
 
Authorized by Mr. Kosol Prakham (Director)
Chiang Ma I Area 1 Education Office"
 
It seems clear to me. They have official permission to run TEFL courses. Full stop.

 [/quote]

Reread and 2nd time after some more explanation we agree. Apologies about previous post. Half a job wife wasn't concentrating!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted and/or edited.

 

Defamatory remarks have also been removed.  

[Kf6vci]

And then there are government schools who won't bother with all the licensing and other requirements pertaining to foreign teachers. Apart from a certain risk to their employees, will they keep up sending teachers on Visa runs? Can anyone share intelligence?

 

Those schools simply won't "do" B-Visa, Work Permits or bother with a waiver from Kurusapha (TCT).

[brucetefl]

Ultimately, if they refuse to get their teachers permission to stay in the kingdom in some fashion, they will lose their teachers.

[casualbiker]

Ultimately, if they refuse to get their teachers permission to stay in the kingdom in some fashion, they will lose their teachers.

And then they will continue to employ backpackers with no wp. Or graduate backpackers from companies like O.E.G (they tend to get Wp etc but only stay 6months to a year)

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[belg]

do they need a list? they just can start checking every single "school" that was given up on the ED visa forms ... and check current students and their knowledge of thai ... how hard can it be to go close the rotten apples ?

 

what is next? requirements for retirement & non-o visa ?  double the amount needed, make them show it the whole year as some people go to an agency to borrow the money for 3 months and pay it back + intrest...

 

[casualbiker]

^^^^^ Stop giving them ideas :-D

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app