What the defenders of Israel are dealing with. Watch it and you will understand it's not easy to deal with terrorists who use human shields including children in populated areas:

Not criminal.

WAR.

A video produced and published by the propaganda department of the IDF!

What do you expect it to say?

Edited August 25, 201411 yr by 7by7

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

Can the UN order them to stop, fine them or send troops in to help the Palestine?

On The Wrong Side Of History Ex-Israeli Soldier Speaks Out…

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

This is just plain asinine. If Israel wanted to commit "genocide" why are there so many Palestinians? They have lost every single war since they declared the first one 66 years ago and they would have been gone long ago, If Israel wanted it that way.

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

Can the UN order them to stop, fine them or send troops in to help the Palestine?

Order them to stop stopping the Hamas rockets? Order them to give back Gaza AGAIN?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

This is just plain asinine. If Israel wanted to commit "genocide" why are there so many Palestinians? They have lost every single war since they declared the first one 66 years ago and they would have been gone long ago, If Israel wanted it that way.

Less of the insults please.

It seems like anyone who disagrees with you or Jingting is wrong or foolish

I don't know what your two's motives are but you are posting a lot on these subjects. I'd hazard a guess and say you are Israeli in which case totally biased.

I suggest you detach a bit so you can see the whole picture.

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

Can the UN order them to stop, fine them or send troops in to help the Palestine?

Order them to stop stopping the Hamas rockets? Order them to give back Gaza AGAIN?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't know about any rockets but if someone stole a little of my land every year, I'd fire rockets into theirs.

<snip>

This is just plain asinine..

Less of the insults please.

It seems like anyone who disagrees with you or Jingting is wrong or foolish:(

You missed out Judeophobic, anti Semitic and neo Nazi!

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

Can the UN order them to stop, fine them or send troops in to help the Palestine?

Order them to stop stopping the Hamas rockets? Order them to give back Gaza AGAIN?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't know about any rockets but if someone stole a little of my land every year, I'd fire rockets into theirs.

You don't know about the rockets? Hmm

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's Genocide. Israelis plan is to take Gaza. It's clear now. Though of course they will deny it.

It looks that way to me, the Israelis have been stealing the Palestinian's land slowly ever since they moved there.

Can the UN order them to stop, fine them or send troops in to help the Palestine?

Order them to stop stopping the Hamas rockets? Order them to give back Gaza AGAIN?

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That might work.

The current situation certainly hasn't been working and now Israel is losing international goodwill.

... and now Israel is losing international goodwill.

Thanks Jip ... I tried to make this point earlier. But, in dogmatic style, I got howled down, as if my opinion didn't matter.

I mentioned that neither Israel nor Palestine is trying to win the hearts and minds of the audience.

Like the members here ... all players seemed to be intent of proving that 'They are right ... They have the high moral ground' ... when, in fact, it's us, the outsiders, the rest of the world who decides 'who is right' 'who we support'.

I hope that Israel and their supporters don't fall into the trap of believing their own propaganda ... or that what 'we' think doesn't matter ... what 'we' think matters a lot.

The only reason that Israel has been able to achieve what it has to date is because, broadly speaking, they have had 'our' hearts and minds.

Broadly speaking ... they still have my heart and mind ... but they are stretching that rubber band to breaking point. It won't break ... Israel is smarter then that ... but I'm sure there will be stretch marks.

Moderate voice has finished now ... back to the rock throwing ...

.

An off-topic post has been removed. This thread is about Gaza and not about land in the West Bank. Continued off-topic posting will earn suspensions.

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

I've no problem to blame Hamas for its war crimes.

But IDF defence war is taking Innocent Palestinian civilians.

Bombing schools, ambulances, hospitals, UN shelters, kids on the beach, etc has nothing to do with military targets.

Gaza stip is only 51x11 kms so heavy precise bombing is not really recommended in dence populated area's.

Total bombs/missiles dropped by Israel is not logical compared to the Hamas leaders killed till now.

Edited August 25, 201411 yr by Thorgal

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

The difference being Hamas have a reason to fight for their land, Israel don't.

Look at the names on that website: I wonder if they are slightly biased

• M. Zuhdi Jasser
• Lawrence Kadish
• Douglas Murray
• Naomi Perlman
• Ingeborg Rennert
• Rebecca Sugar
• Christine Williams

Amir Taheri, Chairman, Europe Board of Governors

Board of Governors, Gatestone Europe

• Chairman, Amir Taheri
• Josef Joffe
• Anne-Elisabeth Moutet

Nina Rosenwald, President

Naomi H. Perlman, Vice President

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

The difference being Hamas have a reason to fight for their land, Israel don't.

Look at the names on that website: I wonder if they are slightly biased

• M. Zuhdi Jasser
• Lawrence Kadish
• Douglas Murray
• Naomi Perlman
• Ingeborg Rennert
• Rebecca Sugar
• Christine Williams

Amir Taheri, Chairman, Europe Board of Governors

Board of Governors, Gatestone Europe

• Chairman, Amir Taheri
• Josef Joffe
• Anne-Elisabeth Moutet

Nina Rosenwald, President

Naomi H. Perlman, Vice President

Could you point me to which part of Gaza is occupied. Incidentally source policing is the last refuge for those who can't refute facts.

Edited August 25, 201411 yr by Steely Dan

Israel criminal?

Think again:

Summary

It is highly unlikely that Israel is violating the proportionality principle, given a) the legitimate military objective of responding to criminal attacks on her homeland and civilians, the standard civilian casualty ratios observed compared to historical conflicts, c) the IDF’s explicit policy of minimising civilian deaths, d) the advance warnings given by the IDF and e) Hamas’s insidious use of human shields. On the other hand, there can be only certainty that Hamas is guilty of war crimes, both for intentionally and indiscriminately targeting Israeli civilians and for hiding behind the Gazan people.

http://jewishmindblog.com/

Israel criminal?

Think again:

Summary

It is highly unlikely that Israel is violating the proportionality principle, given a) the legitimate military objective of responding to criminal attacks on her homeland and civilians, the standard civilian casualty ratios observed compared to historical conflicts, c) the IDF’s explicit policy of minimising civilian deaths, d) the advance warnings given by the IDF and e) Hamas’s insidious use of human shields. On the other hand, there can be only certainty that Hamas is guilty of war crimes, both for intentionally and indiscriminately targeting Israeli civilians and for hiding behind the Gazan people.

http://jewishmindblog.com/

A few days ago the Israeli military confirmed that so far in the latest round of conflict, Gaza militants have fired more than 3,800 rockets and mortar shells at Israel, while Israel launched about 5,000 airstrikes at Gaza. (These figures exclude artillery, naval and tank fire by the Israelis). In the article below it talks to the push for involvement by the ICC. One can assume both the Israelis and the Palestinian factions would be found responsible for actions contrary to humanity.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-israel-25080623

The Mods have now closed down nearly all topics regarding Gaza mainly due to so many inflamatory posts by both sides of the debate. Isn’t it about time the never ending "did / didn’t" arguments cease?

Edited August 25, 201411 yr by simple1

I don't know what you are on about. People who support Israel's right to defend herself against antisemitic genocidal terrorists are never going to agree with Hamas cheerleaders.

Speaking of attacks on Israel, when it rains, it pours. Now some are coming from the NORTH in Lebanon!

I don't know what you are on about. People who support Israel's right to defend herself against antisemitic genocidal terrorists are never going to agree with Hamas cheerleaders.

Speaking of attacks on Israel, when it rains, it pours. Now some are coming from the NORTH in Lebanon!

I am sometimes of the view that many of those posting support for Hamas actions on TV are really just indulging in inflammatory argument for the sake of it. However your response just underlines my point, posts repeating the same content - really somewhat pointless, of course 'up to you'.

Yep launches from within Lebanon, I have read the launch sites have already been tracked down by Lebanese security. I would guess the last thing Israeli & Lebanese governments want is another conflict on Lebanese soil

something I am sometimes of the view that many of those posting support for Hamas actions on TV are really just indulging in inflammatory argument for the sake of it.

Actually, I agree with you. They are mostly just trolling, but the ones who do it day after day, hour after hour, are something much more insidious.

Edited August 26, 201411 yr by Ulysses G.

If you wish to discuss other posters, then do it by PM.

Edit: Off-topic posts deleted.

I provided the links that show how far in history the Arab attacks on Jews go, which is much longer than 100 years.

Perhaps this should suggest to you it is time to try a different approach.

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

I've no problem to blame Hamas for its war crimes.

But IDF defence war is taking Innocent Palestinian civilians.

Bombing schools, ambulances, hospitals, UN shelters, kids on the beach, etc has nothing to do with military targets.

Gaza stip is only 51x11 kms so heavy precise bombing is not really recommended in dence populated area's.

Total bombs/missiles dropped by Israel is not logical compared to the Hamas leaders killed till now.

Was hitting Hamas leadership the main goal of Israel?

Israeli government's hesitation prior to ordering the ground move pretty much gave Hamas leadership enough time to get safely underground. Most times goals were stated hitting leaders did not figure as the main attraction - more about blowing up attack tunnels, hitting launchers and other Hamas facilities.

Obviously there were a lot of uninvolved civilian casualties, there is no denying that, even if figures are arguable. I take the view that civilian casualties were caused by Hamas staging operations from dense residential areas and public buildings, while at the same time acknowledge that there were certainly times were IDF actions were out of line, or at the very least, not thought out.

In the context of Hamas using public buildings and facilities as cover or outright base for operations, it is hard to claim that all such places hit had nothing to do with military targets. At the same time, it is true not all were military targets.

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

I've no problem to blame Hamas for its war crimes.

But IDF defence war is taking Innocent Palestinian civilians.

Bombing schools, ambulances, hospitals, UN shelters, kids on the beach, etc has nothing to do with military targets.

Gaza stip is only 51x11 kms so heavy precise bombing is not really recommended in dence populated area's.

Total bombs/missiles dropped by Israel is not logical compared to the Hamas leaders killed till now.

Was hitting Hamas leadership the main goal of Israel?

Israeli government's hesitation prior to ordering the ground move pretty much gave Hamas leadership enough time to get

safely underground. Most times goals were stated hitting leaders did not figure as the main attraction - more about blowing

up attack tunnels, hitting launchers and other Hamas facilities.

Obviously there were a lot of uninvolved civilian casualties, there is no denying that, even if figures are arguable. I take the

view that civilian casualties were caused by Hamas staging operations from dense residential areas and public buildings,

while at the same time acknowledge that there were certainly times were IDF actions were out of line, or at the very least,

not thought out.

In the context of Hamas using public buildings and facilities as cover or outright base for operations, it is hard to claim that

all such places hit had nothing to do with military targets. At the same time, it is true not all were military targets.

Morch,

Only Israel blamed Hamas to be responsible for the civilian casualties used 'as human shields'.

Nobody else could confirm this.

Except a Finish reporter who left already Gaza...without proof of images.

Need to tell that he reporter is working for Helsingin Sanomat. Sanomat is owned by Aatos Erkko, the richest person in Finland.

His mother was Violet Sutcliff, a Jewess from England who moved to Finland during the bolshevik revolution in Russia.

Aatos Erkko is also connected to the US Jewish Sulzbergers and participated in the Bilderberg conference of 1991.

It's a known fact that subjective media resources are playing a capital role in these types of wars.

Edited August 27, 201411 yr by Thorgal

All these threads start the same way, an alleged crime by Israel resulting in a circle jerk of the usual suspects repeating ad-nauseum the same old discredited allegations maybe in the off chance they will sway the opinion of any passing reader who has not the time or inclination to delve deeply into the issue.

Never does a thread start with Hamas being accused of anything, though their crimes and evidence of their guilt are so much easier to demonstrate. It is high time Hamas leaders were held accountable for their actions and perhaps the UN, NATO, the ICC etc should go after the Hamas leaders as this might encourage them to moderate their behavior.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4646/hamas-war-crimes

I've no problem to blame Hamas for its war crimes.

But IDF defence war is taking Innocent Palestinian civilians.

Bombing schools, ambulances, hospitals, UN shelters, kids on the beach, etc has nothing to do with military targets.

Gaza stip is only 51x11 kms so heavy precise bombing is not really recommended in dence populated area's.

Total bombs/missiles dropped by Israel is not logical compared to the Hamas leaders killed till now.

Was hitting Hamas leadership the main goal of Israel?

Israeli government's hesitation prior to ordering the ground move pretty much gave Hamas leadership enough time to get

safely underground. Most times goals were stated hitting leaders did not figure as the main attraction - more about blowing

up attack tunnels, hitting launchers and other Hamas facilities.

Obviously there were a lot of uninvolved civilian casualties, there is no denying that, even if figures are arguable. I take the

view that civilian casualties were caused by Hamas staging operations from dense residential areas and public buildings,

while at the same time acknowledge that there were certainly times were IDF actions were out of line, or at the very least,

not thought out.

In the context of Hamas using public buildings and facilities as cover or outright base for operations, it is hard to claim that

all such places hit had nothing to do with military targets. At the same time, it is true not all were military targets.

Morch,

Only Israel blamed Hamas to be responsible for the civilian casualties used 'as human shields'.

Nobody else could confirm this.

Except a Finish reporter who left already Gaza...without proof of images.

Need to tell that he reporter is working for Helsingin Sanomat. Sanomat is owned by Aatos Erkko, the richest person in Finland.

His mother was Violet Sutcliff, a Jewess from England who moved to Finland during the bolshevik revolution in Russia.

Aatos Erkko is also connected to the US Jewish Sulzbergers and participated in the Bilderberg conference of 1991.

It's a known fact that subjective media resources are playing a capital role in these types of wars.

There were more reports which even showed this live. I'm not even going to bother linking here as they were pasted all over these topics enough times (and besides, for all my time here, still no idea how to embed a clip). Others can do that if they like.

Can't have it both ways, though. Some posters saying Hamas "had no choice" but to fight from dense urban areas, when anyone who ever set foot in the Gaza Strip (or indeed, just had a look in Google Earth) could say this is incorrect. Fighting from residential areas, storing weapons in public buildings, with civilians still around - doesn't lend much credit to the claim Hamas did not use the population as cover.

There are also more than one reporters which say Hamas actively deterred them from taking pictures and footage of their activities, hence why most such reports are made when reporters are out of harm's way, and why there aren't that many of them. If you, or anyone else, chooses to believe that the rarity of such materials covering the Hamas is due to there not being any Hamas around or to their exceptional powers of hiding themselves, that's alright, just not very convincing.

If you believe media is subjective, why would you think it is subjective only one way?

There were more reports which even showed this live.

There are LOTS more.

There were more reports which even showed this live.

There are LOTS more.

MEMRI TV : was co founded in 1998 by former Israeli secret forces officer Yigal Carmon and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli born American political scientist...do you expect objectivity ?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

IDF TV : do you expect objectivity ?

Again another example of biased Israeli war propaganda after my post #664...

By the way, most footage is from before Operation Protective Edge...

Not really footage to provide to ICC soon.

Edited August 27, 201411 yr by Thorgal

I don't know what you are on about. People who support Israel's right to defend herself against antisemitic genocidal terrorists are never going to agree with Hamas cheerleaders.

Speaking of attacks on Israel, when it rains, it pours. Now some are coming from the NORTH in Lebanon!

Stop perpetuating lies that come from the myths sprouted in propaganda!

Hamas are not antisemitic, nor are they genocidal or terrorists.

Granted they want to exterminate Zionists, but not all Jews are Zionist. Their charter makes this clear. Their charter makes it clear that, to quote from it, "... it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security...". That is NOT antisemitism.

If firing rockets at civilian populated areas is terrorism, then Israel via it's IDF is a much worse terrorist, sowing much more terror.

I don't know what you are on about. People who support Israel's right to defend herself against antisemitic genocidal terrorists are never going to agree with Hamas cheerleaders.

Speaking of attacks on Israel, when it rains, it pours. Now some are coming from the NORTH in Lebanon!

Stop perpetuating lies that come from the myths sprouted in propaganda!

Hamas are not antisemitic, nor are they genocidal or terrorists.

Granted they want to exterminate Zionists, but not all Jews are Zionist. Their charter makes this clear. Their charter makes it clear that, to quote from it, "... it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security...". That is NOT antisemitism.

If firing rockets at civilian populated areas is terrorism, then Israel via it's IDF is a much worse terrorist, sowing much more terror.

Hamas wants to "liberate" all of Israel and take it away from the Jews who have a state there -- ISRAEL. Israel is the manifestation of Zionism. What happens to the Jews then? If they don't run, they fight and of course the Jews will fight, so if Hamas wins, they get mass murdered -- genocide. You can try to split hairs with the Jew/Zionist thing but rational people are not fooled. If you are pushing a big lie that Israeli Jews can live in a new Palestinian state ruled by radical Islamic Jihadists like Hamas ... dude, that is just absurd. That would be just as viable as religious minorities being able to live under ISIS rule!

Edited August 27, 201411 yr by Jingthing