Israel declares seven-hour Gaza truce

[joecoolfrog]

If one believes that Hamas welcomes civilian casualties , and I for one do , than it is imposible to conclude anything than a huge propoganda victory for them. Any other reasoning is a contradiction in terms.

[Pattszero]

If one believes that Hamas welcomes civilian casualties , and I for one do , than it is imposible to conclude anything than a huge propoganda victory for them. Any other reasoning is a contradiction in terms.

It takes a special kind of idiot to glory in an enemies trap.

The only conclusion you can take from this is that Israel is currently that idiot.

You'd need to be after bombing kids at a UN school.

Then trying to blame it on two Hamas guys on a motorbike.

Who happened to be riding past.

I lay you odds there are people in Israel high command currently sitting with their heads in their hands.

Bewailing and bemoaning the stupidity of the soldiers that fired that rocket.

[theoldgit]

Off topic post and a number of responses removed.

[joecoolfrog]

I agree .

In the last year Hamas has lost huge amounts of support , Syria , Iran , Egypt have all pulled the plug. You have to ask yourself who gains on the Israeli side from this sudden escalation , its not those who want peace in the region.

[Morch]

Why wouldn't I? I trust a professional poll over some guy who hates Israel on Thai Visa any time.

Who's the guy that hates Israel?

I don't believe that headline figure - and if it's true, it's collective madness.

Even the article writers are incredulous.

Israel is losing this war, and the longer it goes on, the greater the defeat.

Supporting defending your nation from Jihadist terrorists. Utter madness!

jdog.jpg

That's only your blinkered interpretation.

I posted a link to the hundreds of Israelis protesting in Tel Aviv - and you said it was an ad hominem argument.

It's not - it's evidence of Israelis taking to the streets to say stop the war - and what was the worst thing about it?

They were prevented from continuing the protest in case they were attacked.

So the voice of peace has been silenced -

Many Jews, Israelis, and friends of Israel are watching this collective madness in horror.

This complete and utter overreaction will come at a high price for Israel, A very high price.

There are some protests, but nothing very serious as far as Jewish Israelis are concerned.

Maybe more of that a bit later on, when the fighting stops (or drags on) and all the dirt gets

investigated and aired. But so far most of the Jewish Israelis are definitely supportive,

The Arab Israelis on the other hand are on the con team, and some lively protests going

on in some places.

Overall, still not a mass movement or anything coming close to it.

[kblaze]

Well, not like all the Palestinian casualties were civilians as well.

And yes, I'd rather wait for the smoke to clear before blindly believing casualty figures supplied by Hamas.

Wouldn't be the first time discrepancies appear after the fighting is done.

"Figures supplied by Hamas" - what a cop out.

So the doctors working in Gazan hospitals, international aid workers, UN staff, etc...who are supplying the figures...all Hamas operatives.

Look, go ahead and cut the figures in half if you'd like.

Does 900 dead, 4000 injured sound any better?

[johna]

Israel sabotages John Kerry's peace efforts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2x56lJVZyo

[Pattszero]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

[Ulysses G.]

Well, not like all the Palestinian casualties were civilians as well.

And yes, I'd rather wait for the smoke to clear before blindly believing casualty figures supplied by Hamas.

Wouldn't be the first time discrepancies appear after the fighting is done.

"Figures supplied by Hamas" - what a cop out.

Yeah. the Hamas terrorists would never lie.

[ggold]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

[dexterm]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

1867 Gazans killed, 68% civilians, over 400 innocent children.

Yes a great vote winner... as were the previous 2 invasions just before an Israeli election.

Not sure how the parents of the 67 Israelis killed might feel though for a totally unnecessary war, when a bit of diplomacy rather than bluster back on June 12th might have achieved more for Israelis.

[Ulysses G.]

3,000+ rockets shot at civilians in Israel by a terrorist group makes it a very necessary war and very much justified.

[Jingthing]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

American Jews, also politically divided in peacetime are OVERWHELMINGLY supportive of Israel's Operation Protective Edge.

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel sabotages John Kerry's peace efforts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2x56lJVZyo

With 'friends' like Israel, who needs enemies?

[up-country_sinclair]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

American Jews, also politically divided in peacetime are OVERWHELMINGLY supportive of Israel's Operation Protective Edge.

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general. There is undeniably a demographic shift taking place in the US, and within a generation or two Israel won't be able to murder innocent children with such abandon and expect the US to provide cover at the UN.

[ggold]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

1867 Gazans killed, 68% civilians, over 400 innocent children.

Yes a great vote winner... as were the previous 2 invasions just before an Israeli election.

Not sure how the parents of the 67 Israelis killed might feel though for a totally unnecessary war, when a bit of diplomacy rather than bluster back on June 12th might have achieved more for Israelis.

You just don't like it that 95% are behind the action in Gaza. And please don't presume to know how the parents of israeli casualties may feel. As They too are in support if the actions.

[Ulysses G.]

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general.

Americans support Israel 3 to 1 over the Palestinians and our politicians support them at an even higher ratio. Despite the wishful thinking of their enemies, America will have their backs long into the future.

[up-country_sinclair]

As I posted, the demographics are shifting because young Americans aren't as susceptible to the Israeli PR BS as past generations. Even younger Evangelical Christians don't support Israel as much as their parents did. You can choose to ignore this fact but I assure you that Israel and AIPAC are very much aware of it.

Change isn't coming tomorrow, but the clock is ticking.

Edited August 5, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, if I don't your predictions seriously . I have not seen you post much that is credible - even about what is happening right now.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

Well, not like all the Palestinian casualties were civilians as well.

And yes, I'd rather wait for the smoke to clear before blindly believing casualty figures supplied by Hamas.

Wouldn't be the first time discrepancies appear after the fighting is done.

"Figures supplied by Hamas" - what a cop out.

So the doctors working in Gazan hospitals, international aid workers, UN staff, etc...who are supplying the figures...all Hamas operatives.

Look, go ahead and cut the figures in half if you'd like.

Does 900 dead, 4000 injured sound any better?

Not a cop out at all.

Hamas does not, as rule, admit to combatant casualties, unless there is simply no denying it or after the fighting is done (and then figures are markedly different from UN or Israeli numbers). Now, who do you assume manages Gazan hospitals? Who does medical authorities answer to? Some posters seem to forget that Hamas is the government. UN staff, NGO workers - the majority are Gazans, not foreigner. Assuming all are both totally objective and not intimidated by Hammas will result in you being called naive.

Casualty figures tend to be used for PR campaigns in almost every conflict and are often disputed, this is true also for the current one. You are welcome to do some digging and see that this is a repeated issue in almost every confrontation in the Middle East.

You seem to understand this concept when it suits your argument - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/748665-gaza-school-strike-criminal-un/page-4#entry8195824

The number of casualties is one thing, how many of them were civilians is another. I was not denying that there are a lot of casualties, just pointing out that not all are civilians and that manipulation of figures is not a new phenomenon.

[Morch]

Israel sabotages John Kerry's peace efforts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2x56lJVZyo

Israeli leadership certainly acted arrogantly and stupidly in regards to the current USA administration. This started quite a while ack, and probably nothing much to do about the sour relationship between some of the main players.

The USA support is Israel's paramount strategic asset. Any Israeli leader who repeatedly jeopardizes the relationship between the two countries ought to be smacked on the back of the head by the public and be brought back to his senses. Doesn't mean licking USA boots, but a extra measures of respect and humility are in order.

That said, not quite getting why Kerry was talking on an unsecured line, hardly as if Israel is the only one around listening in. For that matter, the USA routinely spied and spies on Israel as well, so guess this evens out somehow - the point is more that no one talks about it and everyone is happy, when it gets out, there's usually a blunder or an agenda behind it. In this case, probably from both sides.

[Morch]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Well, the difference may be that the was in Iraq was not a direct threat to many citizens of the UK. Easier to get the people united then the threat is more tangent.

I do not know that the 95% is that accurate, but the support rating is definitely very high among the Jewish population. Whether this means unconditional support or not, is debatable. The thing is that soon as the fighting stops, realities faced, stock taken and questions raised - this support rating figures will drop.

[Morch]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

1867 Gazans killed, 68% civilians, over 400 innocent children.

Yes a great vote winner... as were the previous 2 invasions just before an Israeli election.

Not sure how the parents of the 67 Israelis killed might feel though for a totally unnecessary war, when a bit of diplomacy rather than bluster back on June 12th might have achieved more for Israelis.

Being an great expert on Israeli domestic politics, would you care to explain how this "vote winning" attributed to fruitless operations in the Gaza Strip manifested itself in Israeli elections?

[Morch]

It's normal, even demanded, that when your soldiers are on the front line that politicians and the people of the country would offer full unquestioning support. What was unusual in the UK during the Iraq war was that the British public and many politicians didn't fall into line.

A "united" front is no indicator of the true feelings of the people. The idea that 95% of Jewish Israelis are supportive of the current offensive is absurd, actually, an it's an insult to the intelligence.

Of course you would need to be intelligent to be insulted!

95% of Israelis do support the army in Gaza.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5955077/israeli-support-for-the-gaza-war-is-basically-unanimous

Globally — and even in the United States — Israel's military offensive in Gaza is incredibly controversial. But within Israel, a country famous for its fractious internal politics, Jewish public opinion is nearly unanimous: Operation Protective Edge, Jewish Israelis say, is right and justified.

American Jews, also politically divided in peacetime are OVERWHELMINGLY supportive of Israel's Operation Protective Edge.

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general. There is undeniably a demographic shift taking place in the US, and within a generation or two Israel won't be able to murder innocent children with such abandon and expect the US to provide cover at the UN.

With the underlying assumptions being that these trends stay stable, and that nothing changes in Middle East politics generally (and with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, specifically).

Edited August 6, 2014 by Scott

[up-country_sinclair]

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general.

Americans support Israel 3 to 1 over the Palestinians

This is the most recent polling data from Gallup released YESTERDAY:

A slim plurality of Americans believe Israel’s actions against Hamas are justified, a new poll says.

According to a Gallup poll released Tuesday, 42 percent of Americans say Israel’s actions against Hamas are justified, compared with 38 percent who say they are unjustified.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/poll-israel-justified-hamas-gaza-palestine-109717.html#ixzz39XfIlkQb

Gallup even used the phrase "Palestinian group Hamas" in their polling questions and still only a slim plurality of Americans believe Israel's actions are justified.

Amazing. History could look back on this as a watershed moment.

Due to demographic and cultural shifts (and a basic sense of outrage after witnessing the Israeli atrocities in Gaza), that clock I mentioned earlier is ticking even faster than I thought.

There is still a long way to go, but Americans are starting to see and understand the truth about Israel, and their numbers are growing every minute of every day.

[Ulysses G.]

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general.

Americans support Israel 3 to 1 over the Palestinians

This is the most recent polling data from Gallup released YESTERDAY:

Aren't you trying to spin one specific incident into fitting your agenda - an incident in which the majority of Americans still support Israel? Check in a few months and see what Americans say then. You can bet your booty that they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards an Islamic terrorist group.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general.

Americans support Israel 3 to 1 over the Palestinians

This is the most recent polling data from Gallup released YESTERDAY:

Aren't you trying to spin one specific incident into fitting your agenda - an incident in which the majority of Americans still support Israel? Check in a few months and see what Americans say then. You can bet your booty that they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards an Islamic terrorist group.

"One specific incident"? It's a poll.

"Bet your booty"? This 1970s era expression is perfect for someone who still thinks that Israel has the same support in the US as it did in the 1970s. Times have changed and they're still changing more everyday. And as the polling indicates, not in Israel's favor.

"Islamic terrorist group"? Quite interesting that you felt compelled to include "Islamic" before "terrorist group". Why didn't you simply write, "they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards a terrorist group"?

[up-country_sinclair]

But significantly less so than they were in all of Israel's previous wars. This is even more true for Americans in general.

Americans support Israel 3 to 1 over the Palestinians

This is the most recent polling data from Gallup released YESTERDAY:

Aren't you trying to spin one specific incident into fitting your agenda - an incident in which the majority of Americans still support Israel? Check in a few months and see what Americans say then. You can bet your booty that they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards an Islamic terrorist group.

"One specific incident"? It's a poll. By one of the most respected polling companies in the United States.

"Bet your booty"? This 1970s era expression is perfect for someone who still thinks that Israel has the same support in the US as it did in the 1970s. Times have changed and they're still changing more everyday. And as the polling indicates, not in Israel's favor.

"Islamic terrorist group"? Quite interesting that you felt compelled to include "Islamic" before "terrorist group". Why didn't you simply write, "they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards a terrorist group"?

[Ulysses G.]

"One specific incident"? It's a poll. By one of the most respected polling companies in the United States.

Indeed it is. It is a poll concerning one specific incident that lasted a few weeks. It concluded that the majority of Americans support Israel's actions and that 66 percent said that Hamas' actions are unjustified.

For those who keep trying to predict that American support for Israel is waining, the numbers are similar to a survey conducted in 2002 during a period of increased Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They have barely changed in 12 years.

Are you trying to deny that Hamas are an Islamic terrorist group? Just calling a spade a spade.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

Ahhh.....replying to a question with a deflecting question.

Just answer the question:

Quite interesting that you felt compelled to include "Islamic" before "terrorist group". Why didn't you simply write, "they aren't going to be feeling sympathetic towards a terrorist group"?