Ukraine crisis: Putin orders retaliatory sanctions

[Asiantravel]

time for the West to stop sending money ( they dont have )to Kiev so they can ramp up the violence and continue the civil war.

Poroshenko to seek ceasefire plan after 'very tough' talks with Putin

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0GQ0RF20140826

[Asiantravel]

Here is an interview (with English subtitles) with Sergei Glazyev, Vladimir Putin's chief 'integration' adviser on July 24. Makes a lot of sense to me if you can look at things objectively.

The guy is an absolut blowhard. People advocating this zany smirnoff stuff are not in contact with reality.

Moscow and/or Beijing suddenly selling off U.S. dollar holdings would inflate the currency of each to Zimbabwean dimensions and trigger domestic collapse and unrest in each country. Advocates want global chaos as the only way they can see to destroy modern economics in favor of a return to the pie in the sky gold standard.

And if the antiquated gold standard is brought back - which absolutely will not happen - the economies of Russia, the CCP-PRC, Brics countries along with the rest of the world would sustain zero growth, less than zero growth, very small growth, indefinitely. This is because the gold standard cannot support a global or a 21st century economy.

Frankly, even a mildly serious attempt by any government to return to the gold standard would introduce the very high risk of global warfare as in military conflict.

These people are fevered, nuts, flat out Mad Max types who care not for either you or I. They care only for their 19th century ideological dogmas and for a Hobbesian global economic disaster.

Why Gold Would Be Useless in an Economic Apocalypse

When an economy goes full-on Mad Max and we're all reduced to bartering, the survivors are going to be more interested in useful goods than in a soft metal useful mostly for ornamental purposes.

Part of gold's value as a commodity is derived from the fact that it can easily be traded across borders. But if that were no longer an option, and you were reduced to using bullion to buy a baguette, it wouldn't really matter what people in China or India were willing to pay for your gold.

Seriously, stick with the canned goods.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/12/why-gold-would-be-useless-in-an-economic-apocalypse/282662/

Rubbish! If gold is so useless then why don't the usa paper traders but out of the market and stop these regular slam downs that occur every week?

Just let the Chinese the Indians and the Russians deal in the real thing.

I have far more confidence in the Asians perspective as to how gold will be regarded (based on historic facts as well) than the paper gold traders in USA.

Gold based currencies is 19th century and would take the world back to the 19th century.

If not the 13th century.

It's a Mad Max design, purpose, intent, goal.

Global chaos.

Consciously caused global chaos.

As opposed to fiat which, throughout history have each and every one failed miserably in the end

[Publicus]

Gold based currencies is 19th century and would take the world back to the 19th century.

If not the 13th century.

It's a Mad Max design, purpose, intent, goal.

Global chaos.

Consciously caused global chaos.

As opposed to fiat which, throughout history have each and every one failed miserably in the end

The USD$ as the fiat currency of both global trade and forex reserves is unique and it is in a globalized system and an age of high tech, science, IT, all of which make dealing in gold passe' and counter productive.

Who could displace the United States? China's economy and financial systems are 100% wrong and already failing. Russia's economy is limited and too small. The rest of the Brics have historical limitations, contradictions, ongoing inferiorities to the U.S. systems of dynamic economics and finance. Moreover, China is a 21st century fascist dictatorship and Russia has a neo tsar in the Kremlin.

We hear a lot from you and your Austrian school of economists of how Keynesian economics doesn't work and about how the world was better under the gold standard. You and your mentors in the Austrian school love the laissez faire and gold standard economics of olden times.

The chart displays the annual changes in U.S. real GDP from 1860 to 2011.

Take a look at how many deep recessions and depressions the country experienced in the 19th century. Pretty much, every 10 years, a depression!

And the swings in GDP were wild.

Compare that to the mid 20th century and especially 1971 forward. The contrast is evident and sharp. There are very few recessions and no depressions. And even the recessions have been much milder, current one being an exception.

Recent troubles are due principally to Prez Bill Clinton's surpluses, which essentially were the equivalent of putting us on a gold standard, and the repeal by Clinton and the Republican party Congress of the post-Depression Glass-Steagall Act.

The long spike underwater is the Great Depression. The highest spike upward is WWII productivity followed by the long spike downward as 15 million combatants returned home and 50 million civilians in the labor market experienced the transition back to peacetime production.

After that the range of GDP growth remains positive except for Prez Bush the father and Bush the son. The U.S. is recovering from the 2008 much milder crash than previous ones only by massive deficit spending which is now being constantly reduced each year.

So you are invited to read further to learn something, if possible.

.

No, The United States Will Not Go Into A Debt Crisis, Not Now, Not Ever

(If you read the headline and thought “Well, yeah”–feel free to skip this piece.)

If there’s one article of faith in Washington (and elsewhere), it’s the idea that the United States might get into a debt crisis if it doesn’t get its fiscal house in order.

This is not true.

The reason why it’s not true is because we live in a fiat currency system, where the United States government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2012/10/19/no-the-united-states-will-not-go-into-a-debt-crisis-not-now-not-ever/

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

[F430murci]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

[Publicus]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

And I hope you are ready for the correction of some 8% when the S&P hits 2200 or thereabouts.

Cheerleading is good but the statistician is the guy to check with for the score, who's on deck and what his slugging percentage is.

Just sayin....

[F430murci]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

And I hope you are ready for the correction of some 8% when the S&P hits 2200 or thereabouts.

Cheerleading is good but the statistician is the guy to check with for the score, who's on deck and what his slugging percentage is.

Just sayin....

Haha, Pub you know about as much as the S&P as you do about criminal law.

There are always corrections. Those corrections are caused by people like me taking their profits right before we reinvest.

[Publicus]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

And I hope you are ready for the correction of some 8% when the S&P hits 2200 or thereabouts.

Cheerleading is good but the statistician is the guy to check with for the score, who's on deck and what his slugging percentage is.

Just sayin....

Haha, Pub you know about as much as the S&P as you do about criminal law.

There are always corrections. Those corrections are caused by people like me taking their profits right before we reinvest.

Of course there are always corrections.

That's what I'm referring to.

What makes some certain people around here King Shit?

[F430murci]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

And I hope you are ready for the correction of some 8% when the S&P hits 2200 or thereabouts.

Cheerleading is good but the statistician is the guy to check with for the score, who's on deck and what his slugging percentage is.

Just sayin....

Haha, Pub you know about as much as the S&P as you do about criminal law.

There are always corrections. Those corrections are caused by people like me taking their profits right before we reinvest.

Of course there are always corrections.

That's what I'm referring to.

What makes some certain people around here King Shit?

Haha, there is always a hierarchy, but please . . . you and Asiantravel arguing over macroeconomic issues.

My point is US economy is strong and stocks are supported by underlying corporate strength. To suggest that the dollar will fail and we will all turn turn to gold makes me laugh. Putin does some chest beating, but in the end both him and his buddies that stole billions from the common Russian knows where their bread is buttered so we see him back down.

[Asiantravel]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

" Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting."

Well you don't have to wait any longer?

The Nail In The Petrodollar Coffin: Gazprom Begins Accepting Payment For Oil In Ruble, Yuan

http://en.ria.ru/business/20140827/192383783/Russias-Gazprom-Neft-to-Sell-Oil-For-Rubles-Yuan.html

war must occur now. On the other side of it will be a new financial system that otherwise would not be publicly accepted.

[lovetotravel]

I think the Russian supporters have gone quite on the fact Russia is now in Ukraine proper. Wasn't it reported by these individuals not long ago that the Russian media never lies???? No Russian troops were in Ukraine? It was just a conspiracy the the "Western media".

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Pro-Moscow rebel forces in eastern Ukraine, backed by Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers, battled government forces on two fronts Thursday, a Ukrainian military official said.

The fighting was taking place southeast of Donetsk, and along the nation's southern coast in the town of Novoazovsk, about 12 miles (20 km) from the Russian border, according to Mykhailo Lysenko, the deputy commander of the Ukrainian Donbas battalion.

"This is a full-scale invasion," Lysenko said, referring to the fighting in the south.

So much for a nations territory being sovereign.

[Asiantravel]

I think the Russian supporters have gone quite on the fact Russia is now in Ukraine proper. Wasn't it reported by these individuals not long ago that the Russian media never lies???? No Russian troops were in Ukraine? It was just a conspiracy the the "Western media".

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Pro-Moscow rebel forces in eastern Ukraine, backed by Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers, battled government forces on two fronts Thursday, a Ukrainian military official said.

The fighting was taking place southeast of Donetsk, and along the nation's southern coast in the town of Novoazovsk, about 12 miles (20 km) from the Russian border, according to Mykhailo Lysenko, the deputy commander of the Ukrainian Donbas battalion.

"This is a full-scale invasion," Lysenko said, referring to the fighting in the south.

So much for a nations territory being sovereign.

" So much for a nations territory being sovereign."

Yes - Saddam Hussein and Col Gaddafi both said that also in their final moments

[Asiantravel]

I think the Russian supporters have gone quite on the fact Russia is now in Ukraine proper. Wasn't it reported by these individuals not long ago that the Russian media never lies???? No Russian troops were in Ukraine? It was just a conspiracy the the "Western media".

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Pro-Moscow rebel forces in eastern Ukraine, backed by Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers, battled government forces on two fronts Thursday, a Ukrainian military official said.

The fighting was taking place southeast of Donetsk, and along the nation's southern coast in the town of Novoazovsk, about 12 miles (20 km) from the Russian border, according to Mykhailo Lysenko, the deputy commander of the Ukrainian Donbas battalion.

"This is a full-scale invasion," Lysenko said, referring to the fighting in the south.

So much for a nations territory being sovereign.

anyway you are wrong !!

"I have made a decision to cancel my working visit to the Republic of Turkey due to sharp aggravation of the situation in Donetsk region, particularly in Amvrosiivka and Starobeshevo, as Russian troops were actually brought into Ukraine," the President noted.

http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/31102.html

[lovetotravel]

I think the Russian supporters have gone quite on the fact Russia is now in Ukraine proper. Wasn't it reported by these individuals not long ago that the Russian media never lies???? No Russian troops were in Ukraine? It was just a conspiracy the the "Western media".

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Pro-Moscow rebel forces in eastern Ukraine, backed by Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers, battled government forces on two fronts Thursday, a Ukrainian military official said.

The fighting was taking place southeast of Donetsk, and along the nation's southern coast in the town of Novoazovsk, about 12 miles (20 km) from the Russian border, according to Mykhailo Lysenko, the deputy commander of the Ukrainian Donbas battalion.

"This is a full-scale invasion," Lysenko said, referring to the fighting in the south.

So much for a nations territory being sovereign.

" So much for a nations territory being sovereign."

Yes - Saddam Hussein and Col Gaddafi both said that also in their final moments

You mean the two dictators who were not democratically elected? Not exactly a good comparison. A majority of the citizens of those two countries are glad to see them gone. But never had the chance to vote them out.

But, if you mean Russia does some bad things just like the US. Well, now we're getting somewhere.

[Scott]

Posts with messed up quotes have been removed.

[Harsh Jones]

Lol, publicus and asiantravel debating macroeconomic issues!!!!!!!!!!

US, Fed Reserve, Dollar and etc is going nowhere. Oops, did I hear something about SP 500 going over 2000? Hello! What is Micex at?

Love the gold guys also. What is rate of return for good versus Dow in the last year?

Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting.

Money follows money and guess where the money is, it ain't in Russia and never will be.

Hello, Putin is losing his little crusade in Ukraine and now doing a face saving now out. Why? Because Putin follows the money also and guess where the money is?

" Bladdabladdabladda, all you guys talking gold and Russia/China going to do this or Russia/China going to that . . . Haha, still waiting."

Well you don't have to wait any longer?

The Nail In The Petrodollar Coffin: Gazprom Begins Accepting Payment For Oil In Ruble, Yuan

http://en.ria.ru/business/20140827/192383783/Russias-Gazprom-Neft-to-Sell-Oil-For-Rubles-Yuan.html

war must occur now. On the other side of it will be a new financial system that otherwise would not be publicly accepted.

And most people don't know about the Saddam Hussian selling oil in Euro's and Gadafi's gold dinar thing. But Gazprom just committed the cardinal sin yesterday.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Publicus]

The Nail In The Petrodollar Coffin: Gazprom Begins Accepting Payment For Oil In Ruble, Yuan

The global markets are yawning.

Putin is temporarily avoiding receiving payments in USD$ because the U.S. Treasury Department (Secret Service) is tracking every USD in an around Russia due to the sanctions. The present deal would be okay in USD$ but Putin wants to avoid USD$ because further use of them in violation of sanctions will be traced back to him.

If Russia - or the CCP Boyz in Beijing - are determined to downgrade or destroy the USD$ or the petrodollar then why did the two sign the recent gas and pipeline agreement in USD$ terms to include all transactions and payments in the deal now and after it comes online.

It's because Moscow and Beijing - along with the world as a whole - know they need the USD$ as the medium of global trade and as the global reserve currency, and that they will continue to need it indefinitely. The ruble is a nothing currency going nowhere and the RMB is monopoly game money no one wants to get stuck holding as Iran attests.

Russia Trades Oil For Rubles - Does The Market Care?

By ALAN R. ELLIOTT, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

Posted 08/28/2014 06:29 PM ET

That news spurred sites across the Internet to announce the U.S. petro dollar was at risk and the strength of the dollar was bound to decline.The most recent news, while earning a fair amount of Internet chatter, does not appear to have registered among global investors.

"Certainly the market isn't doubling down, going short the greenback," said Bart Melek, head of commodity strategy for TD Securities. Melek points out that, to make good on its new policy, Gazprom would have to find partners willing to pay in rubles, no easy task.

He adds that Russia still needs dollars in order to pay for the bulk of its imports. "The market is telling us it doesn't matter what Russia does with its currency," he said.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/investing-international-leaders/082814-715189-russia-trades-oil-for-rubles.htm#ixzz3BmPaQBdh

Indeed, while global markets have ignored the vacuous Gazprom Neft statement, Russian markets took a hit over the head for such wild talk even happening and due to the fact Nato reported direct assaults by Russian forces on the Ukrainian military and the State Department said new military movements assisting Ukraine's rebels "indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive."

Nato headquarters in Brussels released satellite images that showed Russian armoured vehicles and artillery had been crossing into Ukraine for at least a week.

All of this is so good for Putin and Russia that the ruble precipitously cratered at its lowest level against the dollar since March. Moscow's benchmark Micex index dropped 1.7%. and the dollar denominated RTS plunged 4%. Gazprom Neft, itself a focal point for any further sanctions, dove in a 4% loss in U.S. markets.

Edited by Publicus for spacing.

[lovetotravel]

The Canadian's have so politely provided a geography lesson for our Russian "friends".

https://twitter.com/CanadaNATO/statuses/504651534198927361

Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/RF3H4IXGSp

[Publicus]

It's always good to get something come down from Canada that isn't an Arctic air mass in January

The map is a good one.

Very Canadian.