Embassy in Bangkok says "20 days overstay no problem!"

[Pi Sua]

....they are human beings as anybody, you know....

...sure you don't know this SOB in the french embassy...

...anybody I know who had to deal with him wanted to send him throw the window....

The same one also just a few days ago pretended to a French retired who sued them and won that he had never ask you for a registration to get a new passeport.

He knows than as the Supreme court has already cancelled their decisions concerning passport refusal even to someone who had to pay heavy taxes, he can now be sued in Criminal Court for deliberate intention to prejudice other .

[Pi Sua]

Other post from Happy Trouble Maker which or who is 99% non sense.

Then if the happy camper who started the topic is going to meet the ambassador for a passport, he is wrong.

Ridiculous. The Ambassador is the highest responsible of what happening in his embassy and of course in his consulate.

When a civil servant like the passport responsible refuse to deliver a passport with no valid reason, then get to the consul and if he carries on in the same way then get to the ambassador, then get to the Conseil d’Etat or for some case the criminal court.

As always people speak but they have no clue about what they are spoken ... sound like it's just to have their name on the screen.

Read once again my sentence above, there are some clues.

Of course you do not put your name on the screen and as mine appear I’m more worry now for my new passport just because I wanted to help people.

What are you clues mister clever man? You do not give any clues except an inexplicable aggression.

In the official website of the French laws, it says the opposite of what you are saying.

Passport decree 1947, with update 1998, 2001 (still valid)

Go to check this, a good clue for you inexistent knowledge. 99% (ninety nine per cent) (your really should review the numbers) of your sayings are rubbish and you make the people confused defending this information about the 20 day overstay.

When I debate about a subject I have clues and gave already some in my precedents posts.

Sorry for you but I’ve got some skills in French laws, administrative interpretation and legal parlance or to be clearer the language of the courts. I was a trade union delegate representing more than a thousand workers. What about you ? How many A**holes do you represent exept yours ?

If I have already won on a Supreme Court it’s because my interpretations were right, I understood the law but the ex consul nor the ex French ambassador didn't(or probably they didn’t want to) as I understand what it is written in the website of the French embassy and also that you are trying to give an incredible explanation to valid it.

There is 2 possibilities, or you are a normal citizen, and things are usually smooth, or you have problem with your national justice, in this last case the Consul will not let you access to some services (mostly the registration) but will still protect you (if possible).

That's right. It’s the 1% left which has sense.

Only the deserters or the insubordinates should be refused a passport.

Décret n° 47-77 du 13 janvier 1947 article 2

I wonder what kind of interpretation you would give to the whole decree !

8 years ago, the consul was a woman and no problem to get a passport in one week in this embassy. As you should know they have to make inquiries at the last place which delivered the precedent passport. They checked in France and no problem.

More than 2 years ago it took them to check in their own embassy three and half months (the secure passports didn't exist) refusing under many pretexts and even using an incredible decree.

An official A**hole even wrote to me that they could help find somebody to look after my son, time to me to get to France to have a new passport. Absolutely against all odds, international conventions, French constitution, laws…..

The last explanation given to me by the French embassy was: the electricity didn’t get through to (between?) the ex consul and me. It was exactly what happened even I have never met this ex consul but is France a democracy or a Dictatorship ?

it's an old text, made in 2001, then yes it's not up to date about the fine.

How do you know that !? There is no date of the last update! It appears that you are well informed about this dangerous information.

The wording is essentialy "administratve wording" far different of the language (slang maybe????) you seems to speak ; the 20 days is reffering about the max fine you can pay (in this case 20 000 bht, or 40 000 bht with a fine of 200 bht per day).

It seems also that you are really not skilfully nor in administrative language nor in mathematics. First the 40 000 bahts which you refer doesn’t exist, second you do not know how multiply and third “20 days overstay tolerated” means what it means. Call a spade a spade.

Do I speak unsympathetic language, some slang ?

All the French I’ve talk to understand the same thing. It’s seems that you are a kind of superior reader and all the others are stupid Oh Master !

You're also attacking me with non sense arguments. I don't understand why ? I try to help the other French people because everyone (except you of course) understand that it’s a very dangerous information and the French who read this can also spread it to every foreigners they'll meet.

Do you belong to our civil servants or are you a fervent supporter ? Considering the very last sentence in (French) of your post which is full of spelling mistakes, everything let me think that you are French and could it be possible that you would be the French A**hole I’m talking about in the first post and the one who asked me to let my son here? Because this one elected by the French living abroad grovel before the consul and is ready to cheat his compatriots to get the consul's favours.

Have you ever though to throw your nationality, and became the citizen from another country? Are you sure, assuming you are a bona fide resident in Thailand, you are not "personna non grata " in France, it could be the right answer. It's named : Retour du baton, si tu as fais le con la bas, tu subiras les consequences ici

You are completely mad man. Who talks about such ineptitudes except you ? I think this is more likely you who have problems in you mind. I can go to France when I want and once again if I have won on court.....I just want to stay with my family. Do you understand the meaning or should I write it in French?

I think you are a new kind of social order crusader but with your own thinking not with the existing laws which are already too numerous.

If I want to marry my Burmese concubine, it’s because I want to grant her the French nationality and we want to go there TOGETHER with our sun to visit my relatives and be able to travel anywhere in the world but it seems that some Nazis and other racist being do not want to help even simply do their jobs and I'm suing them for that.

I advice you to read the article 3 of the 1947 decree updated in 1998. That this sweet embassy have hidden, nor only the AMBASSADOR can deliver a passport (he usually use his assistant who’s called the consul) but he can also deliver a "laissez-passer" to France or French territories to a foreigner if the local authorities don't put any objections.

Here are some clues but maybe will you pretend that decree is not saying what it says and still carrying on affirming that we can’t get passports in our embassies and that they do not advise "20 day overstay is no problem" !?

I would recommend you, before aggressing people with non sense arguments, especially in a very sensitive subject to get more information and more understanding of the French language.

Good by clever man

[Bozo]

The French embassy is still advising that 20 day overstay is tolerated.

The French embassy is right in the legal term.

It is legally tolerated in Thailand, even if obviously not recommended, as in any country of the World (common sense), especially for foreigners, who live in Thailand (but the information on the French Embassy website applies for all French Nationals, not only the latest).

I got an E-mail from a French "official" elected by the French living abroad.

He affirm that to be overstay is not illegal but just simply regarded as something absolutly not risky.

I know that it's purely criminal.

There is nothing "criminal" there, you are exagerating.

What is "tolerated" (such as an overstay, payable with a fine, and following a country regulation) is not illegal.

I don't know the exact content of this email, nor the precise situation it applied to, but the concerned Senator most probably was trying to reassure you about your situation, as the smoothest way to help you (remember he/she needs you to be elected). He might also probably have helped you in the background (without you even noticing it) to get your passport in 9 days instead of 19 days precisely...

This was an official answer 2 years ago, as I was complaining that this embassy refused to deliver me a new passeport and had confiscated the old one, stopping me to leave the country & even stopping me to get a visa extension.

--------------------------

The problem is the other French citizens who are put in danger by the saying of the French Embassy.

I have not open a topic to talk about the taxes but to find an efficient way to make the French embassy change this dangerous "advice".

I did try to give you both a solution to this kind of challenge (see my previous comment), as well as the deep rooted reasons, where it lies: the French tax logic.

Indeed, to have a supplementary line on the website mentioning that it is also not recommended to overstay is only a very simple matter of kind advice you could offer the French Embassy/Consulate in order to help them (through a Senator, or very simply the civil servant in charge of the website at the Embassy/Consulate).

Now, to have the logic of things changing and a more flexible attitude (PROCEDURE) from the French civil servants lies in the reasons for this attitude (POWER).

And this is where you should focus, if you really intend to help things go in your way.

I started a hunger strike and they agree to give me a new one but only after throwing me deliberatly in overstay situation for 9 days.

You certainly are a man of action and intend to get your ways, when you have decided so... but to be as efficient as possible, may I recommend you to use this excellent good will as wisely as possible !

So now, I've been waiting for a new passeport for three and a half month and I'm worried about contacting the Consul or the Ambassador about this big mistake because they can easily cheat me again as they did 2 years ago, when not giving me my new passeport.

Life is not only black & white, but it is rather mostly grey... As you know now, this is a different case, which you can solve in a different way.

After consultation with a few people, it seems actually that the current delay for obtaining a new "securised passport" lies between 2,5 to 6 months; you might be more in the 6 months batch because probably not belonging to the first applications, and as the French Territory office (Nantes) handling this is now most certainly flooded with requests from all over the World for the next 3 years (SLOW + belated PROCEDURE)... and this is probably why other offices are being opened in emergency, such as Hong Kong.

So Mr George, did you send the letter to the French ambassador and if yes what did he answer?

If this is the Senator, who has been willing to help & assist you in this challenge, you would be wise to keep him on your side by avoiding to expose him publicly and to be agressive with him...

If they didn't answer anything, I'd like with your help to open a new topic asking to all the French readers and even the non French to send e-mail like a petition to the French Embassy and even to the French Ministry of Foreign Affair to stop the spreading of this dangerous and criminal information.

It looks to me like you are willing to use a very big hammer to put a very small nail in the wall... you a trying to use the power of politics to influence the French civil service (the biggest & most powerful French company, with about 25 millions employees), for a very minor thing... good luck!

You might consider 2 more possible ways to improve things (as they certainly always need to be):

1. Become a civil servant yourself (not so easy), and make things happen the way you feel appropriate.

2. Become a politic yourself, get elected (not so easy either), and make things happen the way you feel right.

To conclude on my side, and more generally, may I take the liberty to give you my perception of your various interesting posts on this subject:

1. your tone is aggressive, obviously because of your indignation, but I doubt you could get anymore assistance from the "post writers" you seem trying to belittle through hard language, despite the fact that you need all the possible help in this challenge...

2. because of this lack of "forms", the message you are trying to deliver might be considered as "not acceptable", despite the obvious truth of its content (might explain the lack of "electricity" between a Consul you never met and Yourself - remember the "black list")...

If it is more important to you to solve this challenge than to fullfil the emotional need of shouting & crying loudly for the only sake of showing off, make sure that the message you want to give goes through and to this end, be more attentive at the ways you use for communicating. Looking at the good will you show and the quality of the content of your message, it is obvious you are able to improve the forms as well, for the sake of being more efficient.

[Bozo]

Dear Bruno,

The French civil service does not include 25 millions employees, but half of it: i.e. 12 millions employees (= about half the working population of France).

Gracious appologies !

[Maejo Man]

I really do have to have my two bob's worth here......Bruno, you seem determined to make as much noise on this forum as humanly possible, and the agression is most blatent. Not the way to achieve the required results. Your argument is with the French system, not the members of the forum.

"I was a trade union delegate representing more than a thousand workers. What about you ? How many A**holes do you represent exept yours ?"

Definately not the thing to boast about to me, as I detest unionists and everything they represent. Not much lower life on the planet than a dyed in the wool union man! However, that's just my opinion.

As to the comment from another member regarding "your change in national status" The remark was very "tongue in cheek" and really didn't deserve your vitriolic response.

Was it Sir Winston Churchill that once said. "to be born is a wonderful thing, but to be born British is even better"

I realise that the British and the French have had a few "differences" over the last few hundred years, but have you really given serious consideration to a change of national status?

I had occasion to renew my British passport in Bangkok last year. A trip the the British Embassy involved the normal security measures on entry, however, the staff (thai Natoinals) were more than courteous, and after inspecting my application, informed me that the new passport would be ready on monday after one o'clock in the afternoon. I was there on the friday! TWO working days. This is the second time I have done this with exactly the same results.

A good friend of mine just applied BY MAIL to renew his Australian passport, it took a whole week and a half! Six of those days were in mail transit.

"Q.E.D." as my old latin teacher used to say...Quid Erat Demonstrandom

[Pi Sua]

you seem determined to make as much noise on this forum as humanly possible, and the agression is most blatent. Not the way to achieve the required results. Your argument is with the French system, not the members of the forum.

I've talk about my personal problem to justify some arguments and to prove that in some case they do not care about their citizens. Not to have any help on that not even to show up anything but just to try to find out about this 20 day overstay and help my compatriots in case.

I did post that in a happily way in a recent past and I got "under fire" here because of the danger to spread such information.

Now I got the opposite because it's not an happy way. Too funny.

You detest unionist but you probably do profit of the advantage they have fought for. Five weeks holidays paid, the right to strike and much more....Maybe you are not...It's not the subject here and I'm not one anymore but I know some unionists here who are very courageous to dress against the burmese workers exploitation in Thailand.

Sorry to be so agressive with everyone but for the vitriolic response I gave to someone who agressed me with no reason and nothing valable, I do not regret at all.

Untill now I've just asked the people to write to the French embassy about this "mistake". That's it. Nothing agressive in my request.

The main purpose of this topic was to get a kind of petition in French and English toward the goal to stop the spread of this information which is apparently potentially dangerous for everyone.

Bozo said that it was true information; if so I'll do apologise. But untill now everyone is saying that is completly wrong and dangerous.

And those who defend it as true don't have any official documents to link with.

I'll be the first to recognize my mistake if a mistake it is. You've never get troubles with your passeport, good to you and I envy you. I won't talk again how it happen to some even very polite.

So know ? Let it go ? Try to stop it ? It concerns everyone.

[Pi Sua]

The French embassy is still advising that 20 day overstay is tolerated.

The French embassy is right in the legal term.

I thought so but everyone is saying the opposite and if you read the peoples's experience, evrything show that it's apparently not the legal term.

It is legally tolerated in Thailand, even if obviously not recommended, as in any country of the World (common sense), especially for foreigners, who live in Thailand (but the information on the French Embassy website applies for all French Nationals, not only the latest).

I'd really like to believe you but now I'd like someone to show me the Thai law concerning the "French exception ". I’ll be the first to apologise if I’ve spread a wrong thing.

There is nothing "criminal" there, you are exagerating.

So it's not what every one is saying here. I’m not a native English speaker but every witnesses who have reported about the overstay say that it is a “criminal offence”.

What is "tolerated" (such as an overstay, payable with a fine, and following a country regulation) is not illegal."

So sorry again but where does this come from ? I hope we’ll find out.

I did try to give you both a solution to this kind of challenge (see my previous comment), as well as the deep rooted reasons, where it lies: the French tax logic.

Even if you have to pay a big amount of money to the tax department and it's not my case, they don't have the right to refuse you a passport.

My own concerns with the French embassy is totally different and I've never asked any help in this forum for that. It's the truth and why shouldn't I talk about that.

I agree that in many cases it happens that you do not have any problems and I won't talk about the whole things they have done to me and some others because according few of you, it belongs my non diplomatic approach. Easy to say (hope not to agressive).

If I knew that it was going to be like that, I wouldn't have post it on my name.

So what would you advice me to do about this information?

[Bozo]

The French embassy is still advising that 20 day overstay is tolerated.

-----------------

The French embassy is right in the legal term.

-----------------

Bozo said that it was true information

What I mean is that the French embassy is right in the legal term, considering that their statement is true, i.e. that the 20 days overstay are indeed legally tolerated in Thailand. It actually didn't even occur to me the figure could be wrong ; I just understood you were arguing against a possible mis-leading of the website text, which could incitate French Nationals to overstay without concern.

I don't pretend anything, as I have actually no idea whether the 20 days have ever been or still are legal in Thailand, which might not be so easy to know, as Thai laws are not systematically published or public, as far as I understand...

A way to check it might be to directly ask Customs officials at Bangkok Airport or ask a lawyer specialized in Immigration laws...

Anyway, as soon as you can put the hand on a proof of such a mistake, I am certain that the French Embassy/Consulate will be delighted to beneficiate from it as well, as they most probably might have the same difficulties to get this information as anybody does, and change their website & documentation accordingly.

Indeed, one of the worst French civil servant fear is to "Make a Mistake", sin that could lead to be "fired" (usually as a scapegoat for saving somebody else's arse...), horrendous & unspeakable fate that usually is the primary concern pushing an individual to renounce his freedom by becoming a "robot" in entering the French civil service (tough!), and which is usually avoided by a wise SLOW motion and through blindly respected PROCEDURES...

This guarantees you that the website will most probably be corrected in a matter of days (if not hours), as soon as the French Embassy/Consulate would realize it has made a mistake (which still seems to have to be proven). French civil servants may have many weaknesses, but we have to recognize them the benefit of being perfectionnists to the extreme, as a matter of PROCEDURE...

[hearthcitizen]

hello salut ;-)

i didn't read all the topic but i can say one thing by experience : french ambassy, wherever u go is a place where u find corruption and lazy ppl. I have been in africa for a while and i can tell (but it s not only french ambassy) they sell visa to immigrants and make big money with that. Most of french ambassies civil servants are ###### pain that government prefer to see abroad than in France.

[Chris Hill]

Overstay:

In Pattaya with a team of wonderful people we visit foreigners in jail or hospital.

If you are picked up by the Police for ANYTHING - and they check your passport and see that you are OVERSTAY by even ONE day (+7 hours is our soonest) - You Will go to jail, you WILL go to Court where you WILL be convicted and WILL be fined a tiny amount and you WILL be deported.

There is no appeal unless you have say a doctor's certificate or a hospital chit dated PRIOR to your arrest.

Overstay - LISTEN TO NO-ONE who tells you to pay it at the airport or border point - or you might have to put up with me for a few weeks.

Incidentally, about 76% of ALL our foreign prisoners in Pattaya and the local remand prisons are overstay offences.

We have a Helpline through the Pattaya Expats Club - it is 061-451-583.

Helpline E-mail is [email protected]

Hoping not to see you in trouble,

Chris Hill

[parryhandy]

ive read this topic with interest and would just like to wish bruno all the best and applaud him in his actions.Seemingly more and more governments around the world see fit in commiting illegal acts to control their people which is disgraceful.

His advice to French nationals as regard to the overstay is obviously sound and the above post confirms it.I just hope any French nationals who currently find themselves in Thai immigration prisons sue the embassy when they finally make it back to France if they took the advice of the French embassy website.

Hats off to Bruno for pointing it out and BOZO YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN A COMPLETE WASTE OF SPACE.

[Pi Sua]

Thanks to Chris Hill for his actions. It's good to know that some people exist and help the others.

Hoping not to see you in trouble,

I also hope too. Often people think they can't have any problems or it only concerns the others.....They think because they can get documents in two days that it's always like that and for evreybody.

Your sayings confirm that the people said to me the very first time when I spread this information saying to someone about this 20 day overstay "no problem".

I'd like to ask you an important question about the foreigners you visit.

Do you have any French citizen jailed because he (she) was caught with less than 20 day overstay?

As Bozo has said, it might be true and perhaps concern only the French. I am personally very sceptical but as I don't know exactly, I'll never take legal action before being sure. If you have such case or cases, I'll be the first to sue the French Embassy toward the goal to help others.

Also thanks to your support Parryhandy and about the true way you are talking about the "disgraceful control" but about Bozo I don't think he wasted the space here(Just two others did) as he said clever things.

He's right when he talks about power and the taxes. Even they do not have the right to annoy you because they do not pay your taxes, I know they do but they have also lost in court.

I just disagree the way he talks about the procedure because if it's true whether the procedure exists and is long, in many cases it's not a question of procedure. If there are administrative and criminal court, it's because some have a very strange and very personal way to interpret the procedure and they are quite a lot in our embassies.

Example: Newspaper Le Figaro 17 June 2002: The French consul in Alexandria jailed for according visa to underage boys after abusing them. He was charged for rape.

We have the case of a French ambassador gave visa to women to supply a prostitution network.

I would recommend for some sceptical to read "Le monde Diplomatique 4 March 2003" which talk openly about the corruption in French embassies. They also talk about arbitrary and injustice. They say that everyone asking a visa, coming from poor countries was already considered as a future clandestine immigrant. They talk about the 226 French consulates through the world that haven't got good reputation and it's often the way it is.

They even affirm that and I know it's true; there are higher civil servants in the Foreign Ministry Affair who have to send orders few times because some consuls or ambassadors carry on in their delirium. In France, they can't be fired.

Actually, from my knowledge we are in Thailand only two French who are regarding on everything the French Embassy does and often treat them to change their way otherwise we'll take action.

We inform the Foreign Ministry Affair, the senators and in case sue them on the Supreme Court and European court.

Even we have already won on Supreme Court, few times; we want them to apply the decision to all French people.

It's for that I went aggressive with someone here because I know very well what I'm talking about. Our actions made very recently an entire decree to change and it's far much better for all the French living abroad, not only the ones in Thailand.

Today the problem is:

"20 day overstay advised by the French embassy" Dangerous or not?

Today it's still on the website.

And even it doesn't please some, if it's not true, it's a very dangerous information and I'll make as much as noise I'll humanly can to get it out. If it's true, it's a good news even it's not a good idea to be overstay. If true, the French embassy have to interfer immediatly with the local authorities for any French jailed for less than 20 day overstay.

I regard Chris Hill's post with high consideration and I'd like to read more effective posts in this forum.

For Bozo, Georges is not a senator (At least I think) because he is one of the administrators of this forum who kindly help in the past to ask to the French embassy about this information and I don't think I've been aggressive with him. If so, sorry George.

[Pi Sua]

Most of french ambassies civil servants are ###### pain that government prefer to see abroad than in France.

Exellent !

[Chris Hill]

Dear Friends in this excellent website and forum,

thank you for your kind words.

Bruno, in reply to your question,

[Do you have any French citizen jailed because he (she) was caught with less than 20 day overstay?]

Yes.

The Nationality of the foreigner overstaying is NOT taken into account by the authorities. Never. There are NO special national deals - French or otherwise.

However, I DO know first hand of Consular officers telling their own nationals that it is OK to pay at the airport on the way home or out of the country.

Example: A foreigner comes for a 35 day holiday and gets a visa on arrival for 30 days.

He somehow gets sent to me - I tell him,"Come with me to Immigration and we will put it right." He says, " but I spoke with the Consul and he told me to just pay at the airport."

Dear Friends - the Consul IS wrong ! I will take you to Immigration and they will want to see your passport, your air ticket (or an overland voucher to Cambodia or Laos will do) and 1,900 baht.

A lot for 5 days or even ONE day you may say. True. But a deportation will cost you a LOT more. Though we have been able to achieve certain improvements in the jail - it is still very terribly horrible. IDC in Bangkok too.

IF you are overstay for ONE day - YOU and no one else - have created an invitation to jail, Court and deportation.

If for any reason you are required to show the Police your passport - the overstay (yes even one day or part of one day) IS your invitation to jail.

and your Consular officer who told you not to worry - will chuckle lugubriously and say, "Bad luck hey?"

We are our own keepers over the age of 16.

Looking forward not to seeing you in trouble,

Chris Hill

Pattaya City Expats Club.

[megashox]

We are our own keepers over the age of 16.

Wise words indeed!

[Bozo]

Dear Parryhandy: Thanks for the kind reminder, will make it shorter next time.

Dear Chris: Congratulations for your work & for insisting on the very unpleasant experience if caught!

Dear Georges: Sorry for having "promoted" you as a Senator...

Dear Bruno: Congratulations for this useful subject, and your constructive dedication!

Dear Others: Thanks all as well for your kind words, even when sometimes emotional (it's good fun).

[hearthcitizen]

Many french are in jail in thailand because overstay, drug smuggling, girl affair and so.... All know very well that ambassy do nothing, nothing to improve their condition. Just need to see ppl who work for NGO ( a lot of curruption there also!!!): if u don t have familly, u can stay in jail for a while. Of course, if u are executive of french company like Big C, carrefour, all will be different in your contact with ambassy because u are from powerful pool.

Is France a democracy ?

No more, open ur eyes : the second political french party (FN) with 20% of national vote has no power in France and will certainly never have. Mr President Chirac had more than 80% of vote (lol, maybe france should be in south america...) for last president election. This country give lesson to America for Irak but they do worse everywhere in Africa for french oil companies interest.

I am french, and i think talking with ambassy is wast of time. Just wait ppl become so upset that they decide to clean the system.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dear Friends in this excellent website and forum,

thank you for your kind words.

Bruno, in reply to your question,

[Do you have any French citizen jailed because he (she) was caught with less than 20 day overstay?]

Yes.

The Nationality of the foreigner overstaying is NOT taken into account by the authorities. Never. There are NO special national deals - French or otherwise.

However, I DO know first hand of Consular officers telling their own nationals that it is OK to pay at the airport on the way home or out of the country.

Example: A foreigner comes for a 35 day holiday and gets a visa on arrival for 30 days.

He somehow gets sent to me - I tell him,"Come with me to Immigration and we will put it right." He says, " but I spoke with the Consul and he told me to just pay at the airport."

Dear Friends - the Consul IS wrong ! I will take you to Immigration and they will want to see your passport, your air ticket (or an overland voucher to Cambodia or Laos will do) and 1,900 baht.

A lot for 5 days or even ONE day you may say. True. But a deportation will cost you a LOT more. Though we have been able to achieve certain improvements in the jail - it is still very terribly horrible. IDC in Bangkok too.

IF you are overstay for ONE day - YOU and no one else - have created an invitation to jail, Court and deportation.

If for any reason you are required to show the Police your passport - the overstay (yes even one day or part of one day) IS your invitation to jail.

and your Consular officer who told you not to worry - will chuckle lugubriously and say, "Bad luck hey?"

We are our own keepers over the age of 16.

Looking forward not to seeing you in trouble,

Chris Hill

Pattaya City Expats Club.

What puzzles me Chris, is the reluctance of tourists to get a tourist visa at home before they leave. A 60 day visa is cheaper to obtain than a 10 day extension in Thailand. The getting of a tourist visa for Thailand is so simple too. It is all too hard to comprehend.

[lopburi3]

When a traveler enters the country, Thai Immigration stamps the date on which the traveler's authorized stay in Thailand will expire in his or her passport. Any traveler remaining in Thailand beyond this date without having received an official extension will be assessed an immediate cash fine when departing Thailand. Any foreigner found by police to be out of legal status prior to departure (during a Thai Immigration "sweep" through a guesthouse, for example) will be jailed, fined, and then deported at his or her own expense, and may be barred from re-entering Thailand.

The above is the US Embassy information to its citizens as of March 10.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

When a traveler enters the country, Thai Immigration stamps the date on which the traveler's authorized stay in Thailand will expire in his or her passport. Any traveler remaining in Thailand beyond this date without having received an official extension will be assessed an immediate cash fine when departing Thailand. Any foreigner found by police to be out of legal status prior to departure (during a Thai Immigration "sweep" through a guesthouse, for example) will be jailed, fined, and then deported at his or her own expense, and may be barred from re-entering Thailand.

The above is the US Embassy information to its citizens as of March 10.

Hey Lop ... they couldn't possibly spell it out any clearer. The French are working on the all care no reponsibility line.

[Pi Sua]

When a traveler enters the country, Thai Immigration stamps the date on which the traveler's authorized stay in Thailand will expire in his or her passport. Any traveler remaining in Thailand beyond this date without having received an official extension will be assessed an immediate cash fine when departing Thailand. Any foreigner found by police to be out of legal status prior to departure (during a Thai Immigration "sweep" through a guesthouse, for example) will be jailed, fined, and then deported at his or her own expense, and may be barred from re-entering Thailand.

The above is the US Embassy information to its citizens as of March 10.

Thanks very much for this important information. I'll submit this one by EMS to the Ambassador.

We have now two complete different versions. I personnaly beleive the one from the US embassy.

Could the persons from other countries have a look on the website of their respectives embassies and publish in this forum what it is said about the overstay ?

Thanks to all.

[MekhongKurt]

Incidentally, about 76% of ALL our foreign prisoners in Pattaya and the local remand prisons are overstay offences.

We have a Helpline through the Pattaya Expats Club - it is 061-451-583.

Helpline E-mail is [email protected]

Hoping not to see you in trouble,

Chris Hill

Chris Hill --

Good on you for publicizing your information. I have been aware of the Pattaya Expats Club, but I wasn't aware of either the helpline or the statistics you cite.

[MekhongKurt]

Having given my nod to Chris Hill in my last post, I would like to say something more general here, especially to the originator of this excellent thread, the irrepressible Bruno. (I don't know Bruno, but if he's as feisty in person as he is here, I imagine he's a force to be reckoned with!)

First, Bruno, is that if what you report about the website of the French embassy is true, then that is alarming. I don't read French beyond the wee bit my 1 year of elementary Latin and considerable Spanish allow me to guess at, so I'm in no position to confirm or dispute your report.

Second is that group of comments regarding your style in the forum. I taught English, business communications, cross-cultural negotiation, cross-cultural management, etc. at university level for quite a few years in America (my original homeland), mainland China, Macau, and Thailand. One of my specialties is persuasive writing. This is difficult to achieve, in the beginning, even in one's own language. The task becomes far more of a challenge in a language foreign to the writer. When I was young, I could speak Spanish at near-native level -- but I could never argue as effectively with, say my Spanish-speaking-only teachers in the convent school in central Mexico I attended as I could my Mother in our shared native English (okay, native American for purists!). It is evident that in this particular case, you have very strong feelings, which gets in the way of anyone trying to convince others to take a particular course of action.

Those challenges show up in some of your posts. No, Bruno, I'm not being at all critical. I have felt a few other posters have been a bit too strong with you, but I attribute your "agressiveness" as arising from language and emotion. But it is something to consider, if you truly wish to be successful in persuading *many* others.

Finally, on the point of Thai official attitudes towards overstays, visas generally, indeed to foreigners in general, of whatever nationality, it is tempting to say the situation is absolute because the law says such and such.

I worked, albeit briefly, as a police officer when I was a very foolish young man (now I'm merely "foolish"), and a long while in security, dealing daily with law enforcement.

In far more instances than one might imagine, the law offered me more of a guideline than a clear directive -- though a murder, is or course, a murder, and that's plenty clear.

But what about the guy speeding *just* enough to trigger an automatic stop who is anxiously rushing to try to make it in time to the hospital to see his baby delivered? If his violation is minor, should the police officer punish him by ticketing him? The law says he can, and implies he should.

Thai immigration police are in somewhat the same situation. That they impose a fine *is* absolute. That a record be made is also absolute. But they also can make comments in the record about extenuating circumstances the foreigner in violation has convinced them are genuine, thus mitigating the review the *next* immigration officer makes of that foreigner's record.

Further, even for Thai police and Thai lawyers themselves to know with any certainty precisely what the law IS presents a far greater challenge than it does for their cousins in other countries, an effect of the fact that the passage of a new law in Thailand does *not* negate the old one; that takes a specific legislative, executive, judicial, or, where appropriate, administrative action. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but one of my best friends is, and we've discussed this facet of the Thai legal system many times over the years.)

Look at all the confusion over matters such as retirement visas. I've heard stories from people I consider to be honest and reliable -- and no two have ever had the same experience as any other.

To return to your original reason for openiong this subject: you are absolutely correct to want no one, especially your own embassy, to be saying or implying an overstay of any length is somehow "okay." As for the "legality" of an overstay of 20 days or less, I suspect this is a misinterpretation of the guideline my police senior sergeant major friend in Immigration told me about -- i.e., at this point in time, the 90th day is supposed to trigger an alarm bell, according to him.

Good luck in getting your embassy to be more accurate on the website.

[Pi Sua]

UPDATE !

FRENCH EMBASSY STILL ADVISING "20 DAY OVERSTAY" OK

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9596

[natee1]

The fines have doubled in the past few months and are now about 200 Baht a day. You have to pay (if I remember correctly) over 1000 Baht to extend your stay with 10 days which used to be the 500 Baht = 1 extra month at Suan Phlu.

After those 10 days they charge you 200 Baht a day overstay but you can pay your overstay in advance ?!?!?! My friend did it, and wanted to extend it for a month, so he extended the 10 days and after 10 days he went back and said he wanted an extra 20 days. They said its 200 Baht a day and ended up paying 4000 Baht for those extra 20 days.

Its really cheaper to go to Laos for a day and get another 30 days then to pay this stupid money sucking gov't in overstay.

SD

Be grateful for what you get!!!

Imagin it the other way round:

A Thai wants to hang out in Paris another 20 days or more after visa expiry, and asks French immigration if he could just pay a fine in Advance to get this petty matter out of the way, and by the way, why does this money-sucking government want so much for it?

Maybe you should ask yourself: Who the xxxx are you??!!

[natee1]

First, let me dear sirs and madam, explain you something about Embassies : THEY WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A PASSPORT, the Embassador (french or English or any other nationalities will never deal with that, nor with a single national, not his business, he is here to take care of the relation btw 2 countries, not to help Mr X to find where is the door for the toilets. Then if the happy camper who started the topic is going to meet the embassador for a passport, he is wrong.

Second, passport, registration of the national who are in a foreign country, protection of the nationals who are in a foreign country are the job of the Consul and the consular affair. There is 2 possibilities, or you are a normal citizen, and things are usualy smooth, or you have problem with your national justice, in this last case the Consul will not let you access to some services (mostly the registration) but will still protect you (if possible).

The case you describe is simillar (I don't say it's you) to another who involve a french citizen "en rupure de ban aux vues de la legislation francaise", then it was necessary for all the document to take the full way and let the time to the concerned people to verify the reallity and the accuracy of the documents.

About the text in the embassy website, some comments:

it's an old text, made in 2001, then yes it's not up to date about the fine.

The wording is essentialy "administratve wording" far different of the language (slang maybe????) you seems to speak ; the 20 days is reffering about the max fine you can pay (in this case 20 000 bht, or 40 000 bht with a fine of 200 bht per day). I must also confess the administrative language can not be translated by babel or other automatic translator.

Have you ever though to throw your nationality, and became the citizen from another country? Are you sure, assuming you are a bona fide resident in Thailand, you are not "personna non grata " in France, it could be the right answer. It's named : Retour du baton, si tu as fais le con la bas, tu subiras les consequences ici

Are you drunk?

Or do you work for the french ambassy??

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The fines have doubled in the past few months and are now about 200 Baht a day.  You have to pay (if I remember correctly) over 1000 Baht to extend your stay with 10 days which used to be the 500 Baht = 1 extra month at Suan Phlu.

After those 10 days they charge you 200 Baht a day overstay but you can pay your overstay in advance ?!?!?!  My friend did it, and wanted to extend it for a month, so he extended the 10 days and after 10 days he went back and said he wanted an extra 20 days.  They said its 200 Baht a day and ended up paying 4000 Baht for those extra 20 days.

Its really cheaper to go to Laos for a day and get another 30 days then to pay this stupid money sucking gov't in overstay.

SD

Be grateful for what you get!!!

Imagin it the other way round:

A Thai wants to hang out in Paris another 20 days or more after visa expiry, and asks French immigration if he could just pay a fine in Advance to get this petty matter out of the way, and by the way, why does this money-sucking government want so much for it?

Maybe you should ask yourself: Who the xxxx are you??!!

How very true. This one is just a bitter halfwit.