Australia wants Thailand to relax surrogacy laws

[Thai at Heart]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

[Basil B]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

Enforcement...

[Mudcrab]

what can't you buy in thailand ?

Love?

land, if you are not Thai

[geodesic]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

Why do people keep saying this?

It is flat out wrong. There is no law against surrogacy, commercial or otherwise, in Thailand.

There is a medical ethics ruling that says a doctor could lose his license to practice if he engages in surrogacy where the surrogate is not a blood relative or is paid for her services.

That is it. There is no law to enforce. No jail time can be served, and nobody is a criminal. Worst case, the doctor's medical license COULD be revoked. Also, a clinic engaging is assisted reproduction without the appropriate license may be breaking the law, but that actually has nothing to do with surrogacy per se.

A law needs to be passed. Rather than blathering on (incorrectly) about how everyone involved are criminals, why not discuss constructive things, such as what should be in the law?

My own personal feeling is that commercial surrogacy should be explicitly legalized and heavily regulated to prevent the kinds of problems we have seen recently. In particular, the exact same requirements that are already used to determine if a couple can adopt a child should be applied to determine if they qualify to hire a surrogate, and prospective surrogates should be profiled to make sure they truly understand what they are getting into. But when a loving couple wants to provide a good home to a child of their own, I think it is a violation of their human rights not to allow that when the technology clearly exists. In my opinion, it is the same as denying someone life saving surgery simply because a small group of ludites find technology morally objectionable. However, given the sensitive nature of how the process can be abused, it needs extensive legal guidelines and procedures.

So the headline here is intentionally misleading. Thailand has no surrogacy "laws". What Australia wants relaxed are the human trafficking guidelines that could be used to prevent these children from being taken home by their genetic parents in the absence of a law that specifically allows it. It is an interpretation that they want relaxed. And the Australian government is absolutely correct. The lives of real children are at stake, and those children's lives shouldn't be put at risk simply because the Thai government is incompetent at managing their own affairs.

[Johnnie99]

Jeez - if the application of the laws were any more 'relaxed' there'd be babies slopping out all over the damned place.

[simple1]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

Why do people keep saying this?

It is flat out wrong. There is no law against surrogacy, commercial or otherwise, in Thailand.

There is a medical ethics ruling that says a doctor could lose his license to practice if he engages in surrogacy where the surrogate is not a blood relative or is paid for her services.

That is it. There is no law to enforce. No jail time can be served, and nobody is a criminal. Worst case, the doctor's medical license COULD be revoked. Also, a clinic engaging is assisted reproduction without the appropriate license may be breaking the law, but that actually has nothing to do with surrogacy per se.

A law needs to be passed. Rather than blathering on (incorrectly) about how everyone involved are criminals, why not discuss constructive things, such as what should be in the law?

My own personal feeling is that commercial surrogacy should be explicitly legalized and heavily regulated to prevent the kinds of problems we have seen recently. In particular, the exact same requirements that are already used to determine if a couple can adopt a child should be applied to determine if they qualify to hire a surrogate, and prospective surrogates should be profiled to make sure they truly understand what they are getting into. But when a loving couple wants to provide a good home to a child of their own, I think it is a violation of their human rights not to allow that when the technology clearly exists. In my opinion, it is the same as denying someone life saving surgery simply because a small group of ludites find technology morally objectionable. However, given the sensitive nature of how the process can be abused, it needs extensive legal guidelines and procedures.

So the headline here is intentionally misleading. Thailand has no surrogacy "laws". What Australia wants relaxed are the human trafficking guidelines that could be used to prevent these children from being taken home by their genetic parents in the absence of a law that specifically allows it. It is an interpretation that they want relaxed. And the Australian government is absolutely correct. The lives of real children are at stake, and those children's lives shouldn't be put at risk simply because the Thai government is incompetent at managing their own affairs.

Would it not be better for commercial surrogacy be legalised and administered within Oz .

[chooka]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

Why do people keep saying this?

It is flat out wrong. There is no law against surrogacy, commercial or otherwise, in Thailand.

There is a medical ethics ruling that says a doctor could lose his license to practice if he engages in surrogacy where the surrogate is not a blood relative or is paid for her services.

That is it. There is no law to enforce. No jail time can be served, and nobody is a criminal. Worst case, the doctor's medical license COULD be revoked. Also, a clinic engaging is assisted reproduction without the appropriate license may be breaking the law, but that actually has nothing to do with surrogacy per se.

A law needs to be passed. Rather than blathering on (incorrectly) about how everyone involved are criminals, why not discuss constructive things, such as what should be in the law?

My own personal feeling is that commercial surrogacy should be explicitly legalized and heavily regulated to prevent the kinds of problems we have seen recently. In particular, the exact same requirements that are already used to determine if a couple can adopt a child should be applied to determine if they qualify to hire a surrogate, and prospective surrogates should be profiled to make sure they truly understand what they are getting into. But when a loving couple wants to provide a good home to a child of their own, I think it is a violation of their human rights not to allow that when the technology clearly exists. In my opinion, it is the same as denying someone life saving surgery simply because a small group of ludites find technology morally objectionable. However, given the sensitive nature of how the process can be abused, it needs extensive legal guidelines and procedures.

So the headline here is intentionally misleading. Thailand has no surrogacy "laws". What Australia wants relaxed are the human trafficking guidelines that could be used to prevent these children from being taken home by their genetic parents in the absence of a law that specifically allows it. It is an interpretation that they want relaxed. And the Australian government is absolutely correct. The lives of real children are at stake, and those children's lives shouldn't be put at risk simply because the Thai government is incompetent at managing their own affairs.

Would it not be better for commercial surrogacy be legalised and administered within Oz .

It probably would but the what price do you put on it. An Aussie woman would probably ask 200K add GST and other taxes could be looking at nearly 300K. S/E Asia offer the same service for around 5K - 10K

[khunken]

It's a fair request to allow what's in the 'pipeline' to be allowed to finish which would be the case anyway if the 'Gammy' case hadn't triggered Thai law enforcement into action.

But as a 'quid pro quo' maybe Oz could be asked to 'relax' their attitude to the NCPO.

Edited August 10, 2014 by khunken

[peterb17]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

[khunken]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

Totally agree.

Plus there's no evidence that the surrogate mother has become very rich by any standard. The donations are for the heath care of the left behind baby.

[chooka]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

Well Peter I don't know you or your boyfriend but there is no way on earth I would let my children enter the home of a male couple.

Please nothing against you guys but the amount of paedophiles in Thailand one has to protect their children. I am not saying you are paedophiles but I wouldn't trust a male couple and I as a parent would have to present at all times my child is in your home to watch over them.

[ABCer]

You are kidding me right, pay someone to have a child on your behalf when adoption is a viable option,it amounts to scandal and should be deemed illegal in all countries,whilst i have compassion for childless couples this form of child laundering is a step backwards.

Nobody is kidding you, BD. You are forgetting a simple human psychology factor:

It can be summarized in one word - MINE.

You may be a child lover, a dog lover, a women lover, etc.

I do not like kids but I loved mine.

I do not like dogs but I loved mine.

I do not like women but I loved mine.

And I didn't even mention the questions of genetics...

May be I am just inferior. May be you and people like you are superior. I don't know.

Not every person is born a UNESCO fan.

Apparently there is some grain of truth in what I am saying otherwise how to explain surrogacy and all the expenses people are putting up with?

[chooka]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

Totally agree.

Plus there's no evidence that the surrogate mother has become very rich by any standard. The donations are for the heath care of the left behind baby.

The Surrogate is not receiving anything all funds/medical bills are being paid by the agency in Australia. She has made no financial gain from donations.

[Chao Lao Beach]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Yes she is off her rocker, so is Abott and that Hockey creap........ but, so are you, why shouldn't people have the choice in Australia ?

There are still some commy states for you to go live if you want.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Chao Lao Beach

[traviss]

I think what she is basically suggesting is that those Aussie children that have already be born and those about to born be allowed to be handed over to the Aussie parents and leave Thailand. I think she is suggesting that from this time forth do not allow any aussies to enter agreements. The humanitarian issue would be that she is concerned that the Aussie kids may be abandoned by the surrogate mothers and stuck in Thailand with no identity or citizenship. They will become beggars on the streets.

Agree. But from the OP "Sihasak said the Australian minister Bishop told him that Canberra never supported any Australians to have surrogated children in Thailand" This is nonsense as Oz Immi has provided citizenship by descent for hundreds of children produced for Oz citizens via Thai commercial surrogacy arrangements.

simple 1- 100% correct. The Australian government has supported overseas surrogacy for years. The lax requirements for citizenship (www.immi.gov.au) is what has allowed this to happen. The Australian government has now requested that a third world government find solution to it's Australian citizens potential issues in regards to existing surrogacy agreements. Why doesn't the Aussie government simply identify the couples, the surrogate and grant Australian visa for the surrogates. After the babies are born the Thai surrogate returns to Thailand. Aussie, bunch of lazy b......s!!!

[traviss]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

Totally agree.

Plus there's no evidence that the surrogate mother has become very rich by any standard. The donations are for the heath care of the left behind baby.

The Surrogate is not receiving anything all funds/medical bills are being paid by the agency in Australia. She has made no financial gain from donations.

All funds are intended for Gammy with the surrogate receiving no financial benefit from said funds.The funds are controlled by the Australian based Hands Across the Waters organization. Think the story is terrible and complex at this point, wait until the Australian government assists the Aussie couple in taking custody of Gammy. What happens with the funds then? Who then receives an indirect financial benefit from the funds and all those that have donated. The Aussie couple, the couple that abandoned the boy in the first place. What a tragic story, a not so good representation of the Aussie people and their government.

[traviss]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Perfectly said...

[traviss]

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She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Yeah but the cost is issue. Aussie want a lot more money than Thais

Should cost really be the highest consideration when commoditizing babies? They aren't shopping for a car. Why doesn't the Australian government make it easier for it's convicted child sex offending citizens to purchase children within it's borders? Why doesn't the Australian government ban convicted child sex offending Australian citizens from purchasing babies abroad? The request has been made to the Thai government on a humanitarian level. Really, how humane is it for the Australian government to allow it's child sex offending citizens to purchase babies abroad and potentially subject said children to physical and mental abuse? What, the convicted child sex offender is deemed dangerous for children born within the borders of Australia but not a danger to a baby that has been purchased from abroad. Nice to see that a Australian government is sliding the responsibility to the government of a third world country. This is bad, it even makes the US government look good, and that is hard to do.

[orosee]

Interesting that now the surrogate mother has become a very rich woman ( by thai standards ) because of donations by those who feel sorry for her, she wants the other child back???

Anyone who has spent a small time in Thailand will see that disabled kids in poor families are good little for other than public begging and are treated with, at best, indifference by other thais.

The whole matter is a very very sad state of affairs, least of all for the children.

Yet another sweeping statement involving the usual Thai bashing - in my BF's village have seen several disabled kids who are looked after by the community with more love and attention than they would get in the West ( with all the social workers etc) no they don't have much- but those children are very much welcome in everyones home and loved more .

Well Peter I don't know you or your boyfriend but there is no way on earth I would let my children enter the home of a male couple.

Please nothing against you guys but the amount of paedophiles in Thailand one has to protect their children. I am not saying you are paedophiles but I wouldn't trust a male couple and I as a parent would have to present at all times my child is in your home to watch over them.

I may have misread but at what point did he offer to look after your kids? Without that offer your statement has no context and may be (mis) read as opportunistic gay bashing.

[chooka]

Australian surrogate couples stopped in Thailand.

Two Australian couples have reportedly been stopped from leaving Thailand with their surrogate babies amid a crackdown on surrogacy laws in the country.

The ABC reported that the two homosexual couples were prevented from leaving Bangkok's international airport on Thursday afternoon after Thai police ordered that no surrogate babies be allowed out of the country without a court order.

Two American couples were also stopped, the broadcaster reported.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand#Ky8j7upx7qyr27b3.99

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand

[simple1]

Australian surrogate couples stopped in Thailand.

Two Australian couples have reportedly been stopped from leaving Thailand with their surrogate babies amid a crackdown on surrogacy laws in the country.

The ABC reported that the two homosexual couples were prevented from leaving Bangkok's international airport on Thursday afternoon after Thai police ordered that no surrogate babies be allowed out of the country without a court order. Two American couples were also stopped, the broadcaster reported.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand#Ky8j7upx7qyr27b3.99

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand

So what happens with the babies whom you would assume are unwanted by the Thai birth mothers?

Thailand has now banned all commercial surrogacy arrangements. I guess this will mean Oz citizens will now use commercial surrogacy services in places such as India. Oz government still permitting baby citizenship by descent in other countries, so this activity will not stop.

[chooka]

Australian surrogate couples stopped in Thailand.

Two Australian couples have reportedly been stopped from leaving Thailand with their surrogate babies amid a crackdown on surrogacy laws in the country.

The ABC reported that the two homosexual couples were prevented from leaving Bangkok's international airport on Thursday afternoon after Thai police ordered that no surrogate babies be allowed out of the country without a court order. Two American couples were also stopped, the broadcaster reported.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand#Ky8j7upx7qyr27b3.99

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/15/00/12/aust-surrogate-couples-stopped-in-thailand

So what happens with the babies whom you would assume are unwanted by the Thai birth mothers?

Thailand has now banned all commercial surrogacy arrangements. I guess this will mean Oz citizens will now use commercial surrogacy services in places such as India. Oz government still permitting baby citizenship by descent in other countries, so this activity will not stop.

They will probably go to an orphanage until the couple can apply for a new visa. Border runs are no longer permitted so they will have to fly out and apply. Then they will have to go through the Thai family court and get recognised as a legal parent which takes time. I did it with my son and it took 6 months, a lot of red tape and interviews with social services, child protection agencies then register your claim at court where it is put on public display for 2 months to allow for anyone to object. You then get into the court room and through yourself at the feet of the judge. I was named on the birth certificate but being a farang this is not enough to be legally recognised in Thailand.

[hojuruku]

https://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/auspol-abcnews24-gov-tv-praises-illegal-unlicensed-criminal-human-trafficking-new-life-surrogacy-centre-for-selling-babies-to-gay-men/

Well the surrrogacy centres claimed by Thai news to be closed by the police are still operating illegally. I went there in person and I have the video if anyone doubts me!

[trogers]

She must be off her rocker...

Thailand needs to tighten them up, if she is so concerned then change the laws in Australia and allow the Aussie Shelia's to do it for commercial purposes.

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in Thailand.

There is nothing to tighten.

Why do people keep saying this?

It is flat out wrong. There is no law against surrogacy, commercial or otherwise, in Thailand.

There is a medical ethics ruling that says a doctor could lose his license to practice if he engages in surrogacy where the surrogate is not a blood relative or is paid for her services.

That is it. There is no law to enforce. No jail time can be served, and nobody is a criminal. Worst case, the doctor's medical license COULD be revoked. Also, a clinic engaging is assisted reproduction without the appropriate license may be breaking the law, but that actually has nothing to do with surrogacy per se.

A law needs to be passed. Rather than blathering on (incorrectly) about how everyone involved are criminals, why not discuss constructive things, such as what should be in the law?

My own personal feeling is that commercial surrogacy should be explicitly legalized and heavily regulated to prevent the kinds of problems we have seen recently. In particular, the exact same requirements that are already used to determine if a couple can adopt a child should be applied to determine if they qualify to hire a surrogate, and prospective surrogates should be profiled to make sure they truly understand what they are getting into. But when a loving couple wants to provide a good home to a child of their own, I think it is a violation of their human rights not to allow that when the technology clearly exists. In my opinion, it is the same as denying someone life saving surgery simply because a small group of ludites find technology morally objectionable. However, given the sensitive nature of how the process can be abused, it needs extensive legal guidelines and procedures.

So the headline here is intentionally misleading. Thailand has no surrogacy "laws". What Australia wants relaxed are the human trafficking guidelines that could be used to prevent these children from being taken home by their genetic parents in the absence of a law that specifically allows it. It is an interpretation that they want relaxed. And the Australian government is absolutely correct. The lives of real children are at stake, and those children's lives shouldn't be put at risk simply because the Thai government is incompetent at managing their own affairs.

Would it not be better for commercial surrogacy be legalised and administered within Oz .

It probably would but the what price do you put on it. An Aussie woman would probably ask 200K add GST and other taxes could be looking at nearly 300K. S/E Asia offer the same service for around 5K - 10K

Nigeria can do it for 2k.