I Am Not Evil

[TokyoT]

The question is why is Mr. Thaksin struggling so badly to finish off what has always been on paper a slam dunk? .

Read up on the battle of Dien Bien Phu, you will find your answer there.

My history in regard to the battle of Dien Bien Phu is a little sketchy but I think the Vietnamese outnumbered the French by close to three to one in that particular battle. Are you indicating the TRT are the equivalent of the Vietnamese due to their numbers advantage, or are they comparable to the French due what should have been (in their minds) a slam dunk that actually became a very demoralizing loss (predicting a TRT loss are we?)?

Or are you implying that somehow the US is going to somehow end up entangled in this mess like they were drawn/ran into Vietnam? (Secret letters and all).

[jdinasia]

But since I have been living here a total of 13 days ...I don't feel any more qualified to talk about their beliefs and motivations than I think most folks living overseas and not a part of daily life here are qualified to talk about the thoughts and motivations of the places THEY are not a part of.

We have every right to voice our opinions on this or any other topic without constantly eliciting your derogatory backhanded slaps about not being in Thailand.

Your post is an OUT AND OUT Troll trying to elicit a fast negative response from all those that do not live in what you seem to think is YOUR country and your forum. You yourself said a couple of posts ago, " watching people that are not living in Thailand or are relatively new here go on about what THEY perceive to be class issues here is getting a bit tiresome.' Another attempted Troll. If you are bored go do something constructive, read a book, take a walk, go watch TV talk to your woman because we get the feeling you have nothing better to do. Differing viewpoints are good as long as everyone is mature enough to discuss issues in a same manner, and then there are some that just want to cause trouble and raise a ruckus. Which one are you? If you don't know, those of us that don't live in Thailand at the moment, and some that do, can tell you.

Hey guys lets chill a bit. After all what we discuss on here isnt going to change anything. While it is interesting to discuss, debate and disagree it isnt really worth getting too upset when we dont even have a say let alone a vote.

Luk ... READ the entire post hun .... You are taking this all more than a bit personal ....

My post doesn't tell anyone not to post .. or not to have an opinion or anything of the sort

((unlike your reply!!!))

It just points out the rather obvious shortcomings with opinions expressed here (including my own)..

but please feel free to flame me some more and call me names ... instead of a reasoned response like Ando's

[jdinasia]

But since I have been living here a total of 13 days ...I don't feel any more qualified to talk about their beliefs and motivations than I think most folks living overseas and not a part of daily life here are qualified to talk about the thoughts and motivations of the places THEY are not a part of.

So what are you trying to say there Jdinasia?

Living in a community with a fairly closed political point of veiw doesn't really give one any greater scope to comment on the greater political scene in Thailand than someone living outside the country. Though the insider information on local political opinion may be interesting, it is not necessarily definitive of how the majority of voters through out the country might feel. Please keep us informed as to what the local people in your new village are thinking once they accept you into their confidence.

Many of the views here are expressed by people who are immersed only in the political culture of Bangkok. Some express views representative of friends or family in the north. A representative view from the Muslim south should be welcomed. A broader cross section of views can only enrich the discussion here.

You'll never see me claiming a definitive insight Ando ....

You will however see me speak about being in contact with large numbers of Thais from varying backgrounds etc (while I was in BKK) and hopefully while I am here in Phuket as well.

I have already made friends (on a limited and new basis) with some of the folks around me. I have known many people in the province for years as well ... but have yet to piece together any form of political framework here .. From the chineseThai I know ... to the Imam at the Mosque that I have met ... I have broached politics with none of them <YET -- the Imam will be the first I am sure .. probably this week when I get my haircut next to the mosque again ... since over a week ago he quizzed me about Americans opinions/thoughts on Muslims ... I have the door open to ask him HIS opinions!!>

Ando ... in BKK ... IF someone speaks Thai ... they WILL get a much broader insight into the feelings of people from all over. As has been mentioned often .... BKK has tons of people from up-country around ... and BKK residents all come into contact with them. Street vendors to laborers to shop owners ...

Just the same as folks that are outside of Thailand will likely only have contact with a small subset of people from Thailand ... doesn't disvalidate opinions ... just means that perspective is limited.

[Jai Dee]

Back on topic please folks... differing viewpoints on political dicussions are fine, but let's leave personal comments out of the thread OK?

[Plus]

most polls that get reported here are highly suspect at best and probably pure and unadulterated rubbish.

What makes you think so, Chownah? What makes you think that established Thai pollsters like Abac and Suan Dusit are absolutely unprofessional? Where's the link between your own take on making a poll and the real polls? You call the polls rubbish without any evidence at all!

So far the above mentioned polls were always spot on, and gave accurate predictions of every election, for example. TRT runs its own polls, btw, they just don't always publisize the results.

In that "identity" poll almost everyone chose one name or another, usually about 20% give "no idea" answer. That shows that it's one of the most popular issues ever, even if not talked on the radio and TV like it would be in the West.

[Jai Dee]

PM refused to talk to the media about the letter sent to US President

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra refused to talk to the media about the letter he sent to US President George W. Bush.

Today, Dr. Thaksin will preside over a meeting on the drafting of the 10th National Economic and Social Development Plan. Prior to the meeting, the media asked the premier about the letter, but he declined to comment about it. Later, the Prime Minister went on to chair the meeting with relevant units and academics.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

/Edit - Read the details about the letter and GWB's reply in this thread.

[jdinasia]

Back on topic please folks... differing viewpoints on political dicussions are fine, but let's leave personal comments out of the thread OK?

Thanks!!

[chownah]

most polls that get reported here are highly suspect at best and probably pure and unadulterated rubbish.

What makes you think so, Chownah? What makes you think that established Thai pollsters like Abac and Suan Dusit are absolutely unprofessional? Where's the link between your own take on making a poll and the real polls? You call the polls rubbish without any evidence at all!

So far the above mentioned polls were always spot on, and gave accurate predictions of every election, for example. TRT runs its own polls, btw, they just don't always publisize the results.

In that "identity" poll almost everyone chose one name or another, usually about 20% give "no idea" answer. That shows that it's one of the most popular issues ever, even if not talked on the radio and TV like it would be in the West.

I did forget to preface the last paragraph with the phrase "In my opinoin". Sorry for that. If you are asking how I formulated my opinion...here are a few of the reasons:

1. The polls are being reported by highly biased Thai news media who are involved in political debates. Corruption, half truths, and lies pervade Thai politics and I am very suspicious of *anything* having to do with Thai politics. I advise others to adopt a sceptical attitude as well to *all* Thai politics and related activities regardless of whether you agree or disagree with anyone or anything involved.

2. The polls are always done in Bangkok. It is virtually impossible or maybe even *is* impossible to do a poll in Bangkok that represents the nation as a whole.

3. The polls seem to always be around 2,000 respondants which in my mind is a minimal number allowed for statistical significance and at that sampling level you really need to do a flawless job of finding respondents to get significance.

4. Percent error for the polls are never or almost never given.

5. How and where the respondents were found is never mentioned...except to say Bangkok.

6. I have studied the science of polling and know that it is extremely difficult to create an unbiased poll even when done by the most diligent experts available.

7. My view of Thai society is that "experts" quite often aren't....they're well connected people who got their jobs through their families and they got their piece of paper from the Uni through their families as well....or....they are 'worker bees' who have no control at all over how things are done.

8. I consider all poles to be highly suspect.

I'd like to find out more on these polls and I would love to discover that I am wrong about all of this. Anyone who can find some reliable information about how this is done or why we should even trust Abac and Suan Dusit please post here...I'd really like to know. A good thing to find out would be who owns and runs them and what are their family connections and vested interests...other than the vested interest of reporting the results that are desired.

[Jai Dee]

ACM Kongsak believes Thai military will not stage a revolution during the current political crisis

Interior Minister Kongsak Wanthana(คงศักดิ์ วันทนา) is confident that Thai military will not stage a revolution during the current political turmoil. He said the officials are now informing the facts to general public and have urged them not to be lured to join the protest.

Air Chief Marshall Kongsak spoke about the situation where certain units of the military have urged the residents not to join the protest. He said the Thai Army would like to create good understandings with people and to restore peace and harmony in the society as the situation has affected the public as well as the economy.

He believes the Army will not stage a revolution and such movement of them is deemed normal as to build good understanding with the residents only.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

[Jai Dee]

Astrologers divided on prospects for violence

Top Thai astrologers yesterday offered mixed predictions on whether the country is really running the risk of heading towards a civil war.

The mixed predictions come ahead of a major rally planned for Friday by the People’s Alliance for Democracy to call for the ouster of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The President of the International Astrological Association, Pinyo Pongcharoen, said yesterday that, according to astrological signs, the political conflict may turn violent on about July 14.

People should remain alert, especially on July 13, 14, and 17, Pinyo said.

“Saturn, Mars and the sun will cover the moon almost completely during those three days. The three stars are bad signs that will influence the moon, our country’s sign. Strong conflicts may lead to violence on those days,” he told ThaiDay in an interview.

However, Pinyo added that the country may be able to avoid violence this month because Jupiter’s power will continue to protect the country from political clashes.

“But, July 26 to 28 will be another period that we may have to be on the alert for, because the three bad stars will completely cover the moon. That period is around [caretaker Prime Minister] Thaksin’s birthday, too,” he said.

The chances of political violence will increase from this month until October, he said.

“By the end of October, a major political change is likely to have happened, causing some violence. I hope that will bring about a positive result: a restructuring of the system,” he said.

While Pinyo’s prediction about the political situation were ominous, Pattana Patanasiri’s forecast offers the public a more optimistic scenario.

Pattana said that serious political violence is not likely to happen on Friday because, according to astrology, Mars will have left the country’s sign by then, and so it will not be able to combine its malign influence with Saturn’s to trouble Thailand.

“The possibility of political violence on July 14 will be less than between July 11 and 13. Looking at the stars, if PAD’s gathering takes place sometime in those three days, violence seems more likely to happen,” he said.

He said that, although the political conflict between the Thaksin government and the anti-Thaksin group led by the People’s Alliance for Democracy will persist, the likelihood of bloodshed will decrease.

The celebrations last month marking the 60th anniversary of His Majesty the King’s accession to the throne have resulted in increasing numbers of people staying away from the political rivals and opting to be neutral because they want to see a united society, he said.

“At present, the focus of the political conflict is shifting from broad issues like economic problems to the one person – Thaksin – who has been continuously creating problems,” he said.

The respected astrologer said that the political situation is likely to gradually improve, possibly after next week.

“Still, peace will not completely return to society for more than a year, according to the stars,” Pattana said.

Source: ThaiDay - 12 July 2006

[ando]

Soon as you see a post entitled -"A poll published in The Nation today", -- you already know the political flavour of what its going to say. Lies dammed lies and statistics as Churchill once said (or something like that). But the big poll on election day keeps saying the majority of people of Thailand (not just Bangkok) do in fact support Thaksin.

Maybe the people should hand control of the nation to the Bangkok pollsters who interview a handful of city dwellers out in the shopping centres? IMHO Bangkok polls don't have much to do with how Thailand as a whole feels. Just the same way as when people like Sondhi say things like ------ the people have had enough of Thaksin and want him gone! That might be true of the majority in Sondhi's narrow little world of Bangkok, but its not representative of Thailand as a whole. Even the most scientific poll in Bangkok would not give a true reflection of what the overall opinion through out the country was. But I guess since the big media publications are based in Bangkok and since most polls are taken in Bangkok its up to individuals to consider the true value of their findings.

Edited July 12, 2006 by ando

[ando]

Bloody Mars causing trouble again!

I just hope Jupiter is strong enough to get in there and settle things down for a while.

[Jai Dee]

TRT accuses Bangkok city hall of using its BKK municipal officials to destroy its campaign posters

The Thai Rak Thai Party (TRT) has taken legal action against the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) for allegedly allowing its municipal officials to destroy campaign posters of TRT candidates in Bangkok’s city and district council election.

TRT spokesman Sita Divari (ศิธา ทิวารี) said the party has video clips of the officials vandalizing the posters in Din Daeng and Bangkok Noi districts as evidence.

Sqn. Ldr. Sita said TRT will also ask the Election Commission to decide if the Democrat Party violated the election law by sending letters to voters asking them to vote for Democrat contestants. Thus, they could help Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin (อภิรักษ์ โกษะโยธิน) in serving the people in the city better.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

[Jai Dee]

Thai Rak Thai’s Sita Divari shows a copy of an alleged statement by Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin asking voters to support Democrat candidates.

Source: The Nation - 12 July 2006

[Plus]

Ando, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and give us a few examples when those polls were wrong. Also why are you attacking the Nation? Results are published in Thai newspapers as well. Do you blame the Nation because no one copy-pastes from Thai Rath here?

Sorry, but I don't see any connection between your anti-PAD rant and poll results.

Chownah,

1. The polls are being reported by highly biased Thai news media who are involved in political debates. Corruption, half truths, and lies pervade Thai politics and I am very suspicious of *anything* having to do with Thai politics. I advise others to adopt a sceptical attitude as well to *all* Thai politics and related activities regardless of whether you agree or disagree with anyone or anything involved.

The polls might be reported anywhere, does it matter? They are conducted by academic institutions. Five years ago Thaksin was pissed off with the polls and attacked their academic integrity. Their offices where raided by special police. Later on he himself passed the law regulating how the polls must be conducted. There's a more compelling reason to suspect that some unfavourable to the government results are never released at all.

2. The polls are always done in Bangkok. It is virtually impossible or maybe even *is* impossible to do a poll in Bangkok that represents the nation as a whole.

Not always, only if there's urgency to respond to some hot issues. They can't do it across the country in two days, I think.

3. The polls seem to always be around 2,000 respondants which in my mind is a minimal number allowed for statistical significance and at that sampling level you really need to do a flawless job of finding respondents to get significance.

I don't know why they do that.

4. Percent error for the polls are never or almost never given.

I don't know why they don't do that either. Usually it's "out of 2000 asked 1600 or 80% replied that...". Maybe the error percentage applies only when they make a projection on the whole population. Maybe it's simply not published in the papers.

Thaksin runs his own polls, and TRT always make a fuss if the results are different. In the last elections Thaksin acted as if he had complete trust in their in-house polls, and he gave very accurate election results days before the EC counted the votes. Very suspicious, especially on party list votes.

[Jai Dee]

Thai Rak Thai party executive member Mr. Yongyuth concerns on PAD's demo

Thai Rak Thai Party (TRT) executive member Yongyut Tiyapairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช) is concerned that the demonstration in front of the TRT headquarters will escalate. He also viewed that the gathering could possibly violate the personal rights of people.

He said that he personally does not agree with the People’s Alliance for Democracy’s decision to hold the rally in order to pressurize the TRT to answer all ambiguous matters, including the “charismatic person” issue and the Finland Declaration.

He said that on that day, the party will hold a fair to celebrate its establishment.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

[Jai Dee]

Mr. Ong-art today met with the investigating officers at Crime Suppression Division

Democrat Spokesperson Ong-art Klampaiboon (องอาจ คล้ามไพบูลย์) today met with the investigating officers at the Crime Suppression Division after an arrest warrant was issued against him in the allegation of libeling.

Mr. Ong-art was sued with the allegation of libeling after he verbally criticized the stock distribution of Shin Cooperation. He however said that his criticism was based on facts and it was the duty of the Opposition to scrutinize the government’s action. He added that he did not intend to defame Prime Minister Thaksin Shinwatra’s reputation.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

[chownah]

Plus,

Yes indeed I do intend for my condemnation of polls to be applied to Toxin et. al. as well. I wasn't trying to be one sided here. I think that *all* political entities will abuse polling if it gives an advantage. I don't know for sure that the polls are poorly done....it is only a strong scepticism on my part. I have seen some poll questionaires actually used in the US and the mistakes they made were appalling...and these were created by "professional" pollsters.

You are right that it doesn't matter *where* the results are published...the connection I was alluding to is that there is likely a direct line of communication between the pollsters and certain newspapers since it is the newspapers that seem to be constantly be using the services of the pollsters. If a pollster is creating results that people are interested in then they tend to use this as evidence that they are doing a good job and this tends to decrease the efforts to improve the product...this is human nature. I am not claiming that this in fact is happening...but I think it does happen alot in the any profession.

Also, you wrote:"Not always, only if there's urgency to respond to some hot issues. They can't do it across the country in two days, I think." To me this is another reason to be sceptical about the validity of the polls. Creating a *good* questionaire takes time and thoughtful consideration. Deciding how and where to get respondents takes careful planning and thoughtful consideration of a number of factors like weekend or weekday, how will typical elderly people be included, how will people of low economic status be included, is it a holiday and if so who will be over or under represented at the polling places...etc. etc. The fact that they routinely do it so quickly means to me that its likely they really don't give much credence to doing it properly....but maybe I'm wrong....I would *really* love to see copies of their questionaires and to follow their field workers to see how they get respondents....even who you use as field workers can affect the outcome...are they all college students who are more likely to approach other college aged potential respondents?...are they in a hurry and subconsciously pick out people who appear to be highly literate because they will be able to fill out the questionaires properly...do they have a tendency to rush the people while they are filling out the questionaire..do they fill out the questionaire for the respondent or does the respondent fill out the questionaire themselves?...are dark skinned people in cheap clothing ignored in preference to light skinned people in fashionable clothing(in Thailand!!what do you think?)???...polling is not a simple thing.(Edit: not a simple thing if you want to get valid results.)

Edited July 12, 2006 by chownah

[ando]

2. The polls are always done in Bangkok. It is virtually impossible or maybe even *is* impossible to do a poll in Bangkok that represents the nation as a whole.

Not always, only if there's urgency to respond to some hot issues. They can't do it across the country in two days, I think.

3. The polls seem to always be around 2,000 respondants which in my mind is a minimal number allowed for statistical significance and at that sampling level you really need to do a flawless job of finding respondents to get significance.

I don't know why they do that.

4. Percent error for the polls are never or almost never given.

I don't know why they don't do that either.

Plus, I rarely respond to your baits. But here is one just to keep you happy.

Bangkok polls are not representative of all Thailand . See that? Full stop. Not worthy of further debate. If you truly believe that Bangkok polls represent the beliefs and wishes of all Thailand you have my deepest sympathy.

[hammered]

Ando, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and give us a few examples when those polls were wrong. Also why are you attacking the Nation? Results are published in Thai newspapers as well. Do you blame the Nation because no one copy-pastes from Thai Rath here?

Sorry, but I don't see any connection between your anti-PAD rant and poll results.

Chownah,

1. The polls are being reported by highly biased Thai news media who are involved in political debates. Corruption, half truths, and lies pervade Thai politics and I am very suspicious of *anything* having to do with Thai politics. I advise others to adopt a sceptical attitude as well to *all* Thai politics and related activities regardless of whether you agree or disagree with anyone or anything involved.

The polls might be reported anywhere, does it matter? They are conducted by academic institutions. Five years ago Thaksin was pissed off with the polls and attacked their academic integrity. Their offices where raided by special police. Later on he himself passed the law regulating how the polls must be conducted. There's a more compelling reason to suspect that some unfavourable to the government results are never released at all.

2. The polls are always done in Bangkok. It is virtually impossible or maybe even *is* impossible to do a poll in Bangkok that represents the nation as a whole.

Not always, only if there's urgency to respond to some hot issues. They can't do it across the country in two days, I think.

3. The polls seem to always be around 2,000 respondants which in my mind is a minimal number allowed for statistical significance and at that sampling level you really need to do a flawless job of finding respondents to get significance.

I don't know why they do that.

4. Percent error for the polls are never or almost never given.

I don't know why they don't do that either. Usually it's "out of 2000 asked 1600 or 80% replied that...". Maybe the error percentage applies only when they make a projection on the whole population. Maybe it's simply not published in the papers.

Thaksin runs his own polls, and TRT always make a fuss if the results are different. In the last elections Thaksin acted as if he had complete trust in their in-house polls, and he gave very accurate election results days before the EC counted the votes. Very suspicious, especially on party list votes.

It is interesting that little seems to have been written about this apart from a few cartoons implying maybe TRT did not get the election votes they claimed, and I think Chang Noi did a piece on it. However, the party list number did defy logic compared to the candidate vote.

It was also funny for me this time around. As avid follower of Thai Politics I always sit in front of those ticker tapey things and watch the votes fly in. This time they started far later than normal and went off before final numbers were in. In fact if I remeber correctly no final figures were ever given for the party list vote outside of Bangkok. A definite change in the usual total transparency. Still with the cancellation of that flawed election I am sure we can lok forward to a return to of nore transparency next time around.

[tettyan]

2. The polls are always done in Bangkok. It is virtually impossible or maybe even *is* impossible to do a poll in Bangkok that represents the nation as a whole.

Not always, only if there's urgency to respond to some hot issues. They can't do it across the country in two days, I think.

3. The polls seem to always be around 2,000 respondants which in my mind is a minimal number allowed for statistical significance and at that sampling level you really need to do a flawless job of finding respondents to get significance.

I don't know why they do that.

4. Percent error for the polls are never or almost never given.

I don't know why they don't do that either.

Plus, I rarely respond to your baits. But here is one just to keep you happy.

Bangkok polls are not representative of all Thailand . See that? Full stop. Not worthy of further debate. If you truly believe that Bangkok polls represent the beliefs and wishes of all Thailand you have my deepest sympathy.

I've stayed tight-lipped on this issue for want of not distracting too much, but I've gotta put my two cents in here. Opinion polling on political issues is done by academic and media institutions throughout the world. It's not perfect and it's not an exact science (more like an art). But that doesn't mean we should discount their usefulness. I find it to be especially useful when you can compare different polls (such as ABAC and Suan Dusit) accross time. For instance, neither poll has shown TRT's support fall below 40% in Bangkok since 2001, which I think is an accurate reflection of reality. If you were following the near-weekly polls following the Shin sale, there were wild swings in the results because the number of undecided respondents was constantly changing - an accurate reflection of the fluidity of public opinion of the time.

Most of the polls are conducted in Bangkok and surrounding provinces. It's not just because the media are Bangkok-centric (they certainly are), but also because it's easier that way, especially if you want to do a poll quickly (which is often necessary, given the rapid pace of political events). Try getting an accurate poll of an upcountry province, with the population spread out, landline phone ownership is not universal, and access by outsiders can be difficult (notwithstanding the fact that it may be more difficult for pollsters to elicit honest answers from these people). That said, it's not like they don't try - both polling units do conduct upcountry polls from time to time on important issues (such as over whether people believed Thaksin should return to office after his "break"), but it takes them a long time (one to two weeks) and probably requires substantial resources.

As for the "relationship" the university polling units may have with The Nation or other anti-Thaksin media outlets - it's no different from their relationship with any other media outlets. The pollsters arn't paid by the newspapers to conduct the polls, the polling results are made freely availible in Thai on their own websites (I don't remember the web addresses, but perhaps someone else can help out with this), and the papers then just write news stories based off this. Yes, papers like The Nation can sometimes distort the story in translation, but just read between the lines like you would with anything else.

Edited July 12, 2006 by tettyan

[Jai Dee]

PAD to demonstrate in front of six embassies in Thailand

The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will adjust the format of its demonstration by setting up campaigns to clarify the facts to six embassies in Thailand. The demonstration is scheduled to be held this Friday (July 14).

The five core members of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) today discussed its demonstration’s standpoint again. Following the meeting, the members have a resolution that the demonstration this Friday will move from the Government House to various embassies in Thailand. They are planning to read out the content of the letter Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra sent to US President George W. Bush.

The demonstration on Friday will begin at 14:00 hours, starting at the British Embassy and then to the US Embassy. PAD representatives will also gather at the Russian, Chinese and Japanese Embassies. And in the evening, the PAD members will come together to discuss their political perspectives at Lumpini Park.

Mr. Sonthi Limthongkul, one of the PAD leading members, said the demonstration’s adjustment will demonstrate the PAD’s loyalty to His Majesty the King, and once His Majesty has recovered, the PAD has affirmed that it will gather again to protest against the caretaker government.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 July 2006

[Plus]

Bangkok polls are not representative of all Thailand . See that? Full stop. Not worthy of further debate. If you truly believe that Bangkok polls represent the beliefs and wishes of all Thailand you have my deepest sympathy.

I never said that, you just assigned the idea to me and then proudly defeated it. It's called a "strawman argument". Cheap shot to divert attention.

Why don't you show how the polls got it wrong instead as you claimed earlier:

Soon as you see a post entitled -"A poll published in The Nation today", -- you already know the political flavour of what its going to say. Lies dammed lies and statistics as Churchill once said (or something like that).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Chang Noi's article about party list had quite a few questions both to Thaksin and the EC. It's water under the bridge now, too complicated to dig up the topic.

[ando]

Bangkok polls are not representative of all Thailand . See that? Full stop. Not worthy of further debate. If you truly believe that Bangkok polls represent the beliefs and wishes of all Thailand you have my deepest sympathy.

I never said that, you just assigned the idea to me and then proudly defeated it. It's called a "strawman argument". Cheap shot to divert attention.

Why don't you show how the polls got it wrong instead as you claimed earlier:

Soon as you see a post entitled -"A poll published in The Nation today", -- you already know the political flavour of what its going to say. Lies dammed lies and statistics as Churchill once said (or something like that).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Chang Noi's article about party list had quite a few questions both to Thaksin and the EC. It's water under the bridge now, too complicated to dig up the topic.

Plus,

Lets gets something straight .

You don't hold any special ground here on this forum and I dont have to answer to your demands for an explanation on any issue I post on.

You can post anything you want as I can. But I dont have to answer to YOU re anything I say.

If you have something topical or debatable to say, please feel free to put your point, but dont DEMAND that I answer to you.

I have been very polite in ignoring your DEMANDS in the past. Now please try to contain your own sense of self importance here in the future. Do you get the point? Or do I have to explain it to you in more detail?

Re the Bangkok polls. I believe I have made my point quite clearly and have no intention of carrying on any further debate on the issue. You may carry on discussing the matter if you think it is worthy of such, but please dont demand I respond to your petty requests after I have clearly stated my position and that I no longer wish to continue in this discussion.

You are not the teacher here. and I am under no obligation to explain anything just to appease you.

If we disagree thats OK. If we debate an issue thats OK too. Do you get my point? Or do I have to totally ignore you?

[John K]

Thai Rak Thai’s Sita Divari shows a copy of an alleged statement by Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin asking voters to support Democrat candidates.

Source: The Nation - 12 July 2006

and the point here is??????

Sounds like the TRT will get upset if mom and dad vote for their own son who is not TRT. Then make a big deal about it and put it on their website.

[Plus]

So on one page you make outrageous claims and on another refuse to back them up citing some kind of "immunity from demands". It looks more like immunity from displaying common sense and courtesy.

It might be your right to post unfounded allegations though I doubt it. I remember reading something about intentionally posting misleading information, which is against forum rules.

You attacked integrity of the local polls and declared them "lies, ###### lies, and statistics" or something to that effect. What is this allegation based on? Why do you refuse to explain it? Did you intentionally make it up?

I don't see anything personal about the issue - rules are rules. If we all decide to post anything we want without taking any responsibility or providing any explanations, there will be no discussion.

[John K]

Guys... guys for us it’s only a movie, or more accurately a soap opera. Don’t kill this thread by fighting.

Poke fun, but don’t take is serious.

[penzman]

Thank you JK.

[slimdog]

John Krukowski

I believe that the reason that TRT brought up the fact that the Bangkok Governor was campaigning (or at least endorsing) the democrat party representatives, is that the Governor is supposed to be neutral in the elections, and that he should be able to work with anyone elected to the city council. As Local elections do not have the same restrictions as National elections, anyone may put themselves up for election including independant candidates.

Chownah

Not sure about other polls, but the ABAC polls have a magin of error of +/- 5%

A good read on how polls can be both inaccurate and manipulated can be found courtesy of Thai Day at:

http://www.websurvey.au.edu/article/thaiday130306.pdf

ABAC polls can be found at:

http://www.abacpoll.com/index05.html

[lukamar]

Without trying to annoy anyone, this is my take on the polls.

The news agencies all glean the information from them that suits their political bent and reports it with their own political twist. The big pollsters do not intentionally try to fix poll results, but from time to time they appear that way. This could be due to polling by expediency rather than prudence.

Bangkok is not Thailand and often the polls seem to reflect the views one would expect from any cosmopolitan city, this is to be expected. If the poll looks totally out of sink compared to others, it probably is. The true poll is who wins an election under, more or less, constitutional means. Hopefully that poll will take place relatively soon, without a lot of outside influences and we will know the National Poll results.