VT-d, why and when do I want it.

[howto]

So why should I care if I want to do virtualzatiion.

The lower class Intel CPU's all do VT-x.

I noted that VT-d is only available,

on Intel high-end I5 and I-7 CPUs

So please tell me why I should buy the higher-end stuf...

Yes, I am thinking 'bout running

either *nix or w7 virtual.

Hey I know this is a simplistic request...

please bear with me

Thanks

[thedemon]

VT-d is required if you want the VM's to be able to share hardware resources on the host. For example, Microsoft's RemoteFX requires VT-d for full functionality. But you will also need a reasonable graphics card to do that.

I setup a Home Media Server recently with an i7 4770 and remoteFX on Server 2012R2. The performance is quite impressive. Even an old Atom based PC is able to Display 1080p movies in a Remote Desktop session because the video is rendered on the comparatively powerful host. In fact the remote session is so fluid a user wouldn't necessarily even know that they weren't using local machine.

[Crossy]

+1 on thedemon's reply, if you want the VMs to see 'real' graphics and disk hardware you need VT-d, you'll also need a mainboard that supports it.

An interesting article on using VMware ESXi on a desktop machine http://networkingbunny.co.uk/documents/vmdirectpath something I think I'll try when I get a minute or 5,000, I'd like to rationalise my desktop box and an UNRAID NAS into a smaller, less power hungry box.

[yoslim]

Vt-d is kinda useless for a home uses except if you are a die hard gnu/linux fan and want to run games in a windows virtual machine from your gnu/linux install.

[thedemon]

+1 on thedemon's reply, if you want the VMs to see 'real' graphics and disk hardware you need VT-d, you'll also need a mainboard that supports it.

An interesting article on using VMware ESXi on a desktop machine http://networkingbunny.co.uk/documents/vmdirectpath something I think I'll try when I get a minute or 5,000, I'd like to rationalise my desktop box and an UNRAID NAS into a smaller, less power hungry box.

Yes, good point! It won't work unless the mainboard supports VT-d too.

[howto]

This thread is a offshoot of

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/751257-linux-for-dummies/?p=8246280

Ok, so now I know a bit about VX-d

@Crossy

Thanks, read the link.

I walked away with...

- expensive 'puter

- another reason to dislike nVidia

BTW could you please tell us about your new inverter/ups.

on the Electrictral Forum

So I still don't know if I need VT-d.

For Games... I don't game any longer

Is there a reason that VT-x will not suffice.

I've the impression that,

the core OS is *nix and Windows is virtualized.

What about the other way around?

I do recall that Steam will be supporting *nix.

Also I note that virtualization is a PITA.

A lot of work,

and there are issues with Windoze updates.

So I really fail to see the point.

Why not just keep Windoze...

Why would I want to VT *nix.

There is nothing *nix can do that WinDoze can't.

Don't get me wrong, After 30+ years as geek.,

Not a fan of M$.

-Seen everything they have 'ever' offered.

Not a fan of *nix.

-Very suitable as dedicated standalone 'whatever'.

Not a fan of Mac.

- likely never will be.

However,

I have a lot of HDD's,

win98/98se/w2k/xp/w7

Create .iso's...

- why VT them, no drvrs. VT will still not work.

Best to keep a old pc to run devices/apps no longer supported.

So I don't see a reason to VT.

Convince me I'm wrong, please.

Edited August 15, 2014 by howto

[dave_boo]

This thread is a offshoot of

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/751257-linux-for-dummies/?p=8246280

Ok, so now I know a bit about VX-d

@Crossy

Thanks, read the link.

I walked away with...

- expensive 'puter

- another reason to dislike nVidia

BTW could you please tell us about your new inverter/ups.

on the Electrictral Forum

So I still don't know if I need VT-d.

For Games... I don't game any longer

Is there a reason that VT-x will not suffice.

I've the impression that,

the core OS is *nix and Windows is virtualized.

What about the other way around?

I do recall that Steam will be supporting *nix.

Also I note that virtualization is a PITA.

A lot of work,

and there are issues with Windoze updates.

So I really fail to see the point.

Why not just keep Windoze...

Why would I want to VT *nix.

There is nothing *nix can do that WinDoze can't.

Don't get me wrong, After 30+ years as geek.,

Not a fan of M$.

-Seen everything they have 'ever' offered.

Not a fan of *nix.

-Very suitable as dedicated standalone 'whatever'.

Not a fan of Mac.

- likely never will be.

However,

I have a lot of HDD's,

win98/98se/w2k/xp/w7

Create .iso's...

- why VT them, no drvrs. VT will still not work.

Best to keep a old pc to run devices/apps no longer supported.

So I don't see a reason to VT.

Convince me I'm wrong, please.

If you have to ask if you need VT...you don't.

Please check Intel's ARK for the processor you want to purchase as not all of the i5/i7 support it (especially the "K" models). Don't know why you are so up in arms about it...do you worry about AVX, InTRU, VPRO, EPT, TXS-NI, AES-NI, etc? Those are all technologies that are included in a lot of chips that you most likely will never use and yet are included for free. If it's the cost assumed associated with the chip, don't worry about it. The 4790K costs ~12,000 baht and the 4460 costs ~6,500 baht. Of course the 4460 supports VT-D and the 4790K doesn't so....really it's a freebie thrown in on the cheap chips.

[Crossy]

According to this ARK page http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?VTD=true&MarketSegment=DT the 4790K does support VT-d.

But I agree, if you have to ask you don't need it.

[dave_boo]

According to this ARK page http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?VTD=true&MarketSegment=DT the 4790K does support VT-d.

But I agree, if you have to ask you don't need it.

Note I didn't say all of the K models...I was indeed unaware that the new 4*90K models had it, but purposefully didn't mention the 2011 models due to the fact that I couldn't see, from his postings, him giving that socket the time of day.

[howto]

hummm, annoyance

I know very well what visualization is.

Been working with it since early '80's

- IBM 3090

- AS-400

- Digital Alpha

My OP was mostly rhetorical.

of what use is it to me/us.

Current day, 3'rd quarter 2014.

I've been monitoring visualization for a long time ...

for consumers.I still do not see why one needs it.

This is the only person who said what I do know...

yoslim...

Vt-d is kinda useless for a home uses except if you are a die hard gnu/linux fan and want to run games in a windows virtual machine from your gnu/linux install.

Yes, that really sums up what I've read.

So Crossy & david_boo

Of course I'm discussing 1150 mobo's with Intel Haswells.

Please answer my OP...

'So why should I care if I want to do visualization.

The lower class Intel CPU's all do VT-x.

I noted that VT-d is only available,

on Intel high-end I5 and I-7 CPUs

So please tell me why I should buy the higher-end stuff...

Yes, I am thinking 'bout running either *nix or w7 virtual.'

- What do the 2 of you DO that requires VT-d ???

- Why should any of us give a darn about it ???

Edited August 20, 2014 by howto

[howto]

Now I will poke holes in 'visualization'

- even with VT-d or VT-x

-- my high-end

--- sound cards don't work

--- midi card don't work

--- laser printer don't work

--- SCSI card and Raid don't work.

To counter this, I keep my old 'puters,

Or buy a old' puter

Run XP on them, that totally works.

That equipment is about 80K baht.

A old 'puter _{does it very well.}

_{Visualization will not save your butt in this case}

[Crossy]

OK. As to what I do with virtualisation (not visualisation) that I can't do without, not a lot.

Playing with VMs does keep the grey cells ticking over but my current processor and board don't support VT-d so I've not got a full blown system, yet. As noted earlier I'd like to concentrate my current three machines into one, less power hungry box, maybe time to upgrade, it's nearly 5 years since my desktop had a heart transplant.

I do have multiple bootable virtual drives on my work laptop, it enables me to keep separate configurations for each work site and if I get something nasty in the "play" drive it doesn't affect work (and getting it working again takes as long as it takes to delete the damaged file and rename the backup .vhd). Note that this is not virtual machines, each .vhd is bootable and takes over the entire system so no issues with hardware not working, it's just like having many hard disks.

The same idea lets me fix the kids PC when they've installed all sorts of carp on it.

[dave_boo]

hummm, annoyance

I know very well what visualization is.

Been working with it since early '80's

- IBM 3090

- AS-400

- Digital Alpha

My OP was mostly rhetorical.

of what use is it to me/us.

Current day, 3'rd quarter 2014.

I've been monitoring visualization for a long time ...

for consumers.I still do not see why one needs it.

This is the only person who said what I do know...

yoslim...

Vt-d is kinda useless for a home uses except if you are a die hard gnu/linux fan and want to run games in a windows virtual machine from your gnu/linux install.

Yes, that really sums up what I've read.

So Crossy & david_boo

Of course I'm discussing 1150 mobo's with Intel Haswells.

Please answer my OP...

'So why should I care if I want to do visualization.

The lower class Intel CPU's all do VT-x.

I noted that VT-d is only available,

on Intel high-end I5 and I-7 CPUs

So please tell me why I should buy the higher-end stuff...

Yes, I am thinking 'bout running either *nix or w7 virtual.'

- What do the 2 of you DO that requires VT-d ???

- Why should any of us give a darn about it ???

You shouldn't. Either you can go for a proper quad core (not an i3 with hyperthreading) and get a free feature that you don't use, or you can spend more money to get a (pre-4*90K) K series chip that doesn't have it if the feature bothers you so.

Only you can answer if you need the computational power that comes with an i5 or i7; but harping on a feature that NOBODY is forcing you to use is a bit...odd. If your complaint was the opposite, i.e. your expensive "K" processor didn't have it and the cheaper i5/i7 did than perhaps I'd be more sympathetic.

I use VT-D strictly for VGA passthrough. Since I can assign USB devices to the virtual machines, my DAP works just fine. Thus I am able to get my gaming fix on without having to reboot. It is funny to have an Nvidia 660ti and an AMD 7950 in the same system. The 660 is used for Linux (way overkill for the games available and other requirements) and the 7950 for the Xen virtual machine.

[howto]

Thank you Crossy,

very interesting post.

You don't VT-d as you cant...

the rest of your post is lucid and thought provoking.

[Crossy]

Thank you Crossy,

very interesting post.

You don't VT-d as you cant...

the rest of your post is lucid and thought provoking.

Correct, I don't use VT-d because I can't, I DO use Virtual Machines, but that wasn't the question.