ATM 'power overload' may have killed toddler

[Lite Beer]

ATM 'power overload' may have killed toddler
The Sunday Nation

TRANG: -- Following the death of a toddler in Trang on Friday after a severe electric shock from touching a Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) ATM machine on August 7, a source yesterday said that initial police investigation detected power overload that would have made the machine dangerous for anyone who touched it.

Police were awaiting the written report from a Trang electrical engineer following Friday's inspection of the scene. The report should be ready by Monday.

The source said police test of a nearby gas station's electricity system, to which the machine was linked, detected a power overload after 6pm when all electric signs were turned on. The metal-body of the machine reportedly had 191.4 volts of power, the source said.

Meanwhile, Parichat "Nong Yok" Noopinit, aged 2, died on Friday morning at Trang Hospital after battling for her life for eight days. Her mother, Sukunya Noopinit, agreed to turn off the life-support machine that had kept her daughter alive, after doctors said her condition had not improved because of critical damage to the child's brain and respiratory system.

At the girl's funeral, held at Wat Kuan Pho in Trang's Yan Ta Khao district, the girl's grandfather Somchok Khaokhong said the bank had provided Bt58,000 assistance money when the girl was in hospital and the bank executives would attend the funeral later last night. He said the bank must take appropriate responsibility for the girl's death and he hoped police would ensure justice for the family.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/ATM-power-overload-may-have-killed-toddler-30241094.html

-- The Nation 2014-08-17

[Crossy]

Of course we will never see the actual report.

So the test results on the earthing integrity of the machine and its installation, the operation (or presence) of the RCD or any other safety related checks will never be known.

We just get to see 'power overload' which is plain rubbish, or really, really poor translation.

[MaxLee]

Of course we will never see the actual report.

So the test results on the earthing integrity of the machine and its installation, the operation (or presence) of the RCD or any other safety related checks will never be known.

We just get to see 'power overload' which is plain rubbish, or really, really poor translation.

That's what you call "Face Safety"

[submaniac]

Seriously, maybe Junta could address the entire Thai electrical wiring is dangerous thing. First off, I am very saddened to hear about the death of a toddler. RIP. Unfortunately anyone who has consistently read Thai news knows that this is not the first time people are getting electrocuted. It's almost shockingly (no pun intended) a regular occurrence.

[smedly]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

[Crazy chef 1]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

farangs are not allowed to work as electrician or investigator.

RIP little girl i just hope the bank will be held fully accountable.

[Payboy]

Clearly, the solution is for banks to provide at least one overload-free ATM at every service point.

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of course we will never see the actual report.

So the test results on the earthing integrity of the machine and its installation, the operation (or presence) of the RCD or any other safety related checks will never be known.

We just get to see 'power overload' which is plain rubbish, or really, really poor translation.

Nice to see someone knows electricity, with a power overload, the on-board protect system should shut the ATM down, the only way anyone could be electrocuted is by poor installed, maintained RDC and earth strapping, all in the above

[simon43]

...otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection...

ELP?? I think you are assuming too much

[Pib]

The simple answer is the ATM was probably just plugged into a two wire outlet with no safety ground...then internally to the ATM there was live wire leakage to the ATM case....no safety ground on the case created a death trap.

[kurnell]

A moron overload killed the toddler

[rametindallas]

In the US, a 'power overload' automatically trips the circuit breaker and cuts off all power to the 'overloaded' circuit. I don't believe this story for one second. It may be a translation error but I doubt it. Most people would believe whatever they are told when the answer is 'technical'. The bank doesn't dare say the truth or the electrical contractor will sue them for 'defamation'. In Thailand, one can be telling the truth and still be guilty of defaming another. Thainess. 'Farang not understand' (they got that right).

Edited August 17, 2014 by rametindallas

[inzman]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

Well that ain't gonna happen here! They will repair the short, not add any grounding and back in service the next day, Mai pen rai.

[Artisi]

Killed by power overload, the short answer and not mincing words is - "what a load of mumbo-jumbo crap"

[WitawatWatawit]

Surely the manufacturer of the machines, which must be a reputable company, would have insulated every single part to eliminate even the slightest chance of an accident? Is there such a thing as going too far when ensuring safety of electrical things? Could the answer to this accident lie in a backyard techie smartypants type fiddling around inside the machine because he knows best how to solve problems, not the manufacturer?

(RIP, sweet angel.)

[wdr]

Safety nowhere existing in miracle Thailand. Safety is provided hanging amulets around the neck.

[smedly]

In the US, a 'power overload' automatically trips the circuit breaker and cuts off all power to the 'overloaded' circuit. I don't believe this story for one second. It may be a translation error but I doubt it. Most people would believe whatever they are told when the answer is 'technical'. The bank doesn't dare say the truth or the electrical contractor will sue them for 'defamation'. In Thailand, one can be telling the truth and still be guilty of defaming another. Thainess. 'Farang not understand' (they got that right).

Not being funny here but could you explain to me what a power overload actually is since you seem to be familiar with the concept

May I also add - once you have explained what it is, can you describe how it got onto the metal frame of the ATM and killed this poor little girl

Always willing to learn

[Artisi]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

Accidents happen throughout the world with electrical faults but the problem with Thailand is that most electrical installations already incorporate built in major faults. This translates to mean there is a major difference between stupidity and accidents.

[Bung]

OMG. I'm sorry but as and electrician this is just plain BS.

The metal casing of an ATM does not become live because of a "power overload" from switching the lights on, it happens because of a poor installation!

Glad the police are electrical engineers and have solved the case so quickly though. My bet is SCB paid them more than that paltry B58,000 they gave the girls family to come up with that story.

There should be a full investigation by an independent authority and the company who installed the ATM held accountable. Yeah right.

Imagine how many other poor installations there are around here waiting?

[rametindallas]

In the US, a 'power overload' automatically trips the circuit breaker and cuts off all power to the 'overloaded' circuit. I don't believe this story for one second. It may be a translation error but I doubt it. Most people would believe whatever they are told when the answer is 'technical'. The bank doesn't dare say the truth or the electrical contractor will sue them for 'defamation'. In Thailand, one can be telling the truth and still be guilty of defaming another. Thainess. 'Farang not understand' (they got that right).

Not being funny here but could you explain to me what a power overload actually is since you seem to be familiar with the concept

May I also add - once you have explained what it is, can you describe how it got onto the metal frame of the ATM and killed this poor little girl

Always willing to learn

First off, I said I don't believe the 'power overload' story as it was probably concocted to save face.

Now, to explain 'power overload' (I use the term 'power surge'): Have you you ever seen those 'power strips', that have multiple power outlets, that plug into a single power socket? Most of them have built-in 'surge' protection to protect whatever is plugged into them from sudden changes in voltage. Unconditioned power supply will rapidly age certain appliances and damage others. These surges can be compared to a home that has a single hot-water source where someone is taking a hot shower and someone else flushes the toilet. The drop in pressure on the cold side causes an imbalance in hot/cold and the person taking a hot shower can be scalded.

Sometimes power surges can be caused by the power company but, supposedly, in this instance, was caused by the electricity that had been going to the signs of the nearby gas station's signs was suddenly diverted to the ATM when the power to the signs was suddenly turned off. This part of the story is unbelievable (for many reasons). In any case, if the metal parts of the ATM had been properly 'grounded', the child would not have become the path for the electricity to go to ground.

Even these need to be plugged into a properly grounded circuit to perform properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector

edit to answer how the electricity got into the frame of the ATM. Since I can't/didn't examine the ATM, myself, I would have no way of knowing but there are a few possible ways that spring to mind: When the technician slid the ATM into place, he pinched/skinned the power cable allowing the bare wire to contact the cabinet or something inside (maybe the sliding cash drawers or service access doors) rubbed through an improperly routed wire causing the insulation to be worn away. This is pure speculation on my part as I haven't examined the ATM.

Edited August 17, 2014 by rametindallas

[smedly]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

Accidents happen throughout the world with electrical faults but the problem with Thailand is that most electrical installations already incorporate built in major faults. This translates to mean there is a major difference between stupidity and accidents.

consider that when riding down the lift in the morning........take the stairs

I'm going to speculate what happened in this case, I find it highly unlikely that the machine itself or its assembly was at fault, they are modular in design and there would be no reason the alter it from factory, the most likely scenario is a poor installation - no earth to the chassis - and power feed got trapped against the metal frame

[smedly]

In the US, a 'power overload' automatically trips the circuit breaker and cuts off all power to the 'overloaded' circuit. I don't believe this story for one second. It may be a translation error but I doubt it. Most people would believe whatever they are told when the answer is 'technical'. The bank doesn't dare say the truth or the electrical contractor will sue them for 'defamation'. In Thailand, one can be telling the truth and still be guilty of defaming another. Thainess. 'Farang not understand' (they got that right).

Not being funny here but could you explain to me what a power overload actually is since you seem to be familiar with the concept

May I also add - once you have explained what it is, can you describe how it got onto the metal frame of the ATM and killed this poor little girl

Always willing to learn

First off, I said I don't believe the 'power overload' story as it was probably concocted to save face.

Now, to explain 'power overload' (I use the term 'power surge'): Have you you ever seen those 'power strips', that have multiple power outlets, that plug into a single power socket? Most of them have built-in 'surge' protection to protect whatever is plugged into them from sudden changes in voltage. Unconditioned power supply will rapidly age certain appliances and damage others. These surges can be compared to a home that has a single hot-water source where someone is taking a hot shower and someone else flushes the toilet. The drop in pressure on the cold side causes an imbalance in hot/cold and the person taking a hot shower can be scalded.

Sometimes power surges can be caused by the power company but, supposedly, in this instance, was caused by the electricity that had been going to the signs of the nearby gas station's signs was suddenly diverted to the ATM when the power to the signs was suddenly turned off. This part of the story is unbelievable (for many reasons). In any case, if the metal parts of the ATM had been properly 'grounded', the child would not have become the path for the electricity to go to ground.

Huntkey-3-sockets-Power-Strip-with-Surge-Protection-SZM-304-1.jpg

Even these need to be plugged into a properly grounded circuit to perform properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector

edit to answer how the electricity got into the frame of the ATM. Since I can't/didn't examine the ATM, myself, I would have no way of knowing but there are a few possible ways that spring to mind: When the technician slid the ATM into place, he pinched/skinned the power cable allowing the bare wire to contact the cabinet or something inside (maybe the sliding cash drawers or service access doors) rubbed through an improperly routed wire causing the insulation to be worn away. This is pure speculation on my part as I haven't examined the ATM.

Shocking - and BTW I have a degree in Electrical Engineering

[Artisi]

In the US, a 'power overload' automatically trips the circuit breaker and cuts off all power to the 'overloaded' circuit. I don't believe this story for one second. It may be a translation error but I doubt it. Most people would believe whatever they are told when the answer is 'technical'. The bank doesn't dare say the truth or the electrical contractor will sue them for 'defamation'. In Thailand, one can be telling the truth and still be guilty of defaming another. Thainess. 'Farang not understand' (they got that right).

Not being funny here but could you explain to me what a power overload actually is since you seem to be familiar with the concept

May I also add - once you have explained what it is, can you describe how it got onto the metal frame of the ATM and killed this poor little girl

Always willing to learn

Power overload:

Depends on what they "the experts" in this case are referring to. It could be one of two things;

1. the ATM demanding more current than its design criteria

2. the power circuit being overloaded by a higher demand from a number of other items on the same circuit than its design.

Power overload has nothing to do with a metal cases etc. becoming active, this is a function of a fault or poor installation.

One point many people are confused with is that circuit breakers should react to point 1 above #, this is not the case, circuit breakers are used to protect the circuit (wiring) from overload.

# dedicated overload protection can be /is fitted directly to a lot of equipment, this is to monitor that and only that particular item for any overloaded condition and shut it down as required.

[worgeordie]

I thought other people had reported for days they were getting

electrical shocks from the ATM?, so that refutes the claim of a

power surge ,JUST as the toddler touches the machine,but whats

the life of a little girl,when the reputation of a financial institute is

at steak,

regards Worgeordie

[RKASA]

Total BS - the mains were connected wrong and AC was applied to the case. Happens after maintaince all the time. A radar test set signed off on and back from cal. at a USAF base almost took my life for the vary reason. It was hot wired ass backward by the A--- that worked on it.

[tomyummer]

I thought other people had reported for days they were getting

electrical shocks from the ATM?, so that refutes the claim of a

power surge ,JUST as the toddler touches the machine,but whats

the life of a little girl,when the reputation of a financial institute is

at steak,

regards Worgeordie

Yes, should prosecute the bank including its biggest shareholders. Maybe then they will pay attention to the utilities laid throughout their own country? They can start with 'grounding' education. There are still many modern structures not properly grounded, let alone homes.

[Artisi]

I don't know what a power overload is maybe something lost in translation but it is very obvious that someone made a massive error either in the installation of this machine or the maintenance, the little girl was probably barefoot and got a shock from the full mains power feeding this machine - everyone else was just lucky they were wearing something on their feet

The metalwork was not earthed as it should have been otherwise it would have blown the earth leakage protection as soon as there was an issue

someone with a brain needs to look into this

Accidents happen throughout the world with electrical faults but the problem with Thailand is that most electrical installations already incorporate built in major faults. This translates to mean there is a major difference between stupidity and accidents.

consider that when riding down the lift in the morning........take the stairs

I'm going to speculate what happened in this case, I find it highly unlikely that the machine itself or its assembly was at fault, they are modular in design and there would be no reason the alter it from factory, the most likely scenario is a poor installation - no earth to the chassis - and power feed got trapped against the metal frame

Don't ever thing that I don't give a lot of thought when using or are involved with anything to do Thai electrical installations.

[DrLom]

To avoid any future potential accidents, if ATMs here can be risky, from now on I will get my mother-in-law to touch all ATMs before I do.

[Jumper]

Just a thought....

Turning on the lights is something the petrol station must do every night. Could it be that in normal operation the lights were drawing more current than the circuits were rated for, causing the circuit breakers to trip whenever they turned the lights on? Could it be that their solution to this problem was to bypass the circuit breakers?

[Christie Paul]

Very sorry to hear of a young life cut short.

But there is definitely something up with the electrics here.

I have tried and tried to find an auto electrician - no such thing exists, I'm told. Instead there are headlight specialists, windscreen wiper specialists and power seat specialists etc etc.

And when I look at the state of the power lines, I can't help but wonder who is responsible for this mess.

I am wondering how many needless deaths occur because of faulty electrics?