Hat Yai: Co-pilot of budget airline passes out during flight and later dies

[CaptainB]

And judging by the advertised recruitment on the Lion Air website, ex pats are taken on as captains. Their recruiting states that first officers and ab-initio are to be Indonesian citizens. Based on their ad, this pilot would be over 4000 hrs of pilot in command and in the left seat. The first officer obviously did what they were trained to do and land that bird alone, with the added stress of his partner incapacitated in his seat. I think for ANY pilot, this situation would be traumatic, but it shows that TRAINING kicked in and the man or woman at the controls in the right seat did what they practiced for.

I presume you meant Left hand seat. The Pilot who passed away was the 1st officer who was almost surely seated at the right hand seat. Guess just a type mistake on your side. Anyway good post from you!

[fritzzz25]

I just took it based on their recruitment that their captains are foreigners. In any event, it was that practice. Communicate, aviate, navigate....

[Mzungu]

I just hope that all pilots adhere to their medical check schedule.

They do and they have to...

[CaptainB]

I just hope that all pilots adhere to their medical check schedule.

They do and they have to...

It should be; "They do and they have to...." Reality is; "They should do and they have to...." There is some small Thai carriers flying in the present and past that come to mind!

[Benmart]

Avoiding an airline because a crew member died is illogical. People in all professions die and don't plan to do it while on the job.

I did service as a sugical scrub nurse while in the Army. During one procedure at Fort Polk, the patient was anesthetized and the surgeon had open the abdominal cavity for the procedure. The surgeon became faint and almost collapsed, only to be caught from falling by the circulating nurse and an observer. The doctor passed away later that day from a heart attack that he had suffered mid-procedure.

Budget airline or major international carrier employees live and die, just as we do. It has nothing to do with the reliability, safey or economics of the company.

Speaking of safety. Why do you suppose their is a pilot and co-pilot?

[CaptainB]

Avoiding an airline because a crew member died is illogical. People in all professions die and don't plan to do it while on the job.

I did service as a sugical scrub nurse while in the Army. During one procedure at Fort Polk, the patient was anesthetized and the surgeon had open the abdominal cavity for the procedure. The surgeon became faint and almost collapsed, only to be caught from falling by the circulating nurse and an observer. The doctor passed away later that day from a heart attack that he had suffered mid-procedure.

Budget airline or major international carrier employees live and die, just as we do. It has nothing to do with the reliability, safey or economics of the company.

Speaking of safety. Why do you suppose their is a pilot and co-pilot?

[Benmart]

Hold on folks!

You can't blame Lion Air for this. The Co-pilot was only 41 years old, would have had all required health checks and just happened to die of a presumed HEART ATTACK..... thousands of people around the world do the same thing every day...without any warning.

I have no vested interest in LION AIR but come on, "fair suck of the Sav" (forgive the Aussie expression) but honestly, there is no way you can blame the carrier for this. The Skipper obviously did exactly what he should have done and all ended well...except for the poor Co-Pilot.

I agree.

It is irrational thinking, at best, to avoid an airline because someone dared to die on the job. I am not in control of anyone, least of all determining who can die, when they can die and where they can die.

If one avoids a budget carrier because of this incident, that is up to them. I suppose they should also avoid all large carriers that have experienced horrific events of late.

[Krataiboy]

I have an airline I wont fly on either.

I met a guy & his wife at White Beer'd a few weeks ago.

It was about 11:30pm, he was very drunk and flying to Samui at 8:30 am the following morning.

Crazy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Worth a look:

[csroland]

WOW - maybe I will give Lion Airlines a big miss. I wonder how old was the co-pilot. Sad end to his flying career.

Seriously, do you know anything about the airline itself or you just typed something. Obviously such a fatality does not happen due to lack of safety of aircraft.

[CaptainB]

WOW - maybe I will give Lion Airlines a big miss. I wonder how old was the co-pilot. Sad end to his flying career.

Seriously, do you know anything about the airline itself or you just typed something. Obviously such a fatality does not happen due to lack of safety of aircraft.

Exactly: VERY WELL SAID. Even worse is that this comment your refer to is made by a well known moderator.

[laobali]

thanks God they have always two persons in the cockpit

Dream on if you think that there are always two pilots in the cockpit!

They most certainly will be for takeoff and approach and landing.

Can't believe the ignorance of some posters on this thread.

[laobali]

Two people in the cockpit? These days they are talking about zero people in the cockpit. About as dumb as driverless cars.

Wow. So what happens when one of them has a heart attack?

Did you not read the original article? That.

[F4UCorsair]

I just hope that all pilots adhere to their medical check schedule.

Pilots have NO choice about if/when they undergo medicals. It's rigidly controlled, and no medical certificate, no fly.

[Jimbolai]

It sure beats being on a Malaysian air flight to never nowhere land.

[easybullet3]

You would never, for love nor money, get me on this airline.

I have an airline I wont fly on either.

I met a guy & his wife at White Beer'd a few weeks ago.

It was about 11:30pm, he was very drunk and flying to Samui at 8:30 am the following morning.

This was a very unfortunate incident and it has nothing to do with the quality of Lion Air : I have a good impression after having taken several of their flights in Thailand and in Indonesia.

from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,, i do NOT advice anyone to use LION AIR,, unless they want to take a risk with their lives.

I flew from Bkk to HadYai a few week ago with them.

the take off was really shoddy!!! the pilot was NOT keeping the aircraft straight while accelerating to take off.. MOST SCARY !!!

and then LANDING WAS ONE OF THE WORST I HAVE EXPERIENCED IN 30+ years of Flying!! I must have flown more than 200 times in my life.. and TRUST ME... the pilots landing was AWFUL!!! he seemed like it was his first week of flying!!! definitely NOT experienced.

Later I googled Lion Air and saw their SHOCKING track record!!! basically they are a MEGA CHEAP AIRLINE... (the crappy chinese dragon style logo is 'give-away' sign of their chinese style managment and operation!!!)

it seems they dont train their pilots adequately enough. and this message is REPEATED by so many reviews.

the Airplane was spanking new... but the pilot was shocking!!!

about the dutch guy... I truly feel sorry for him and his family.

but its definitely Lion Airs responsibility to have Medical exams for their pilots.. and I HIGHLY DOUBT they have a proper full reliable exam on their pilots.

i will NEVER recommend to anyone to fly on Thai Lion Air, or Lion Air.

dont listen to anyone who says they are good !! (either they work for the airline, or they were lucky to get a passable Pilot, or they dont have enough flying experience to compare safety).

Also: just google Lion Air and see the complaints!!!

most people say that the Lion Air Customer Services NEVER REPLY TO ANY LETTER OR EMAIL !!!

just another example of how awful they are !!!

------

@ Pedro01 - Please tell us what AIRLINE he worked for. its a bit of a tease to tell us a shock story and not give the final punchline.. Lol

Edited August 21, 2014 by easybullet3

[MarkyM3]

And something else:

The Ryanair (EU) had a plan to use flights with 1 pilot ...... Off course they can't, but they would. Crazy greedy people.

Just the Michael O'Leary publicity machine. They knew it isn't possible and no-one with half a brain cell would fly with a one-pilot commercial aircraft but gets them in the media. Same as saying they want to charge people £1 to use the toilet, having standing-only tickets etc.

They haven't been doing as well recently, unlike Easyjet or Norwegian Air, and instead of the "no-one likes us we don't care attitude" they were proud of they seem to be making some effort to turn their image around now.

Edited August 21, 2014 by MarkyM3

[BlueSkyCowboy]

WOW - maybe I will give Lion Airlines a big miss. I wonder how old was the co-pilot. Sad end to his flying career.

At least he died doing what he liked to do. FLY RIP

[dagobert]

"HEY" He was a pilot that died of a heart attack simple as that.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I have an airline I wont fly on either.

I met a guy & his wife at White Beer'd a few weeks ago.

It was about 11:30pm, he was very drunk and flying to Samui at 8:30 am the following morning.

Crazy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Completely legal in the USA. Have to refrain from drinking only 8 hours prior to your flight. Some airlines however require 12 hours but law only requires 8.

8 hrs from bottle to throttle, but also less then .004 blood alcohol. When the ops manual states 12 hrs, that is the law for each airline

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'll say one thing for Thailand:

Based on its ample history of aviation (non)-regulation and safety, I wouldn't rely one whit on the Thai authorities to keep any particular airline in adherence to key safety standards. The past history with Thai Orient, the mangled investigation into the jet that exploded on the tarmac at Don Mueang years ago and other episodes more than prove that reality.

If any particular Thailand-based air carrier is operating safety, I'd say they're doing it because their corporate culture expects and demands it -- not because the government is enforcing it. So that leaves you with the individual airlines.

AFAIK, Thai Air Asia seems to have a much better safety record that Nok Air, at least in terms of crashes and mishaps. Thai Air's safety record isn't the best nor the worst compared to other international airlines, but given the way Thai Air is managed and the people managing it, I'd get the willies any time stepping onto one of their jets.

[LivinginKata]

4 unhelpful posts have been removed. No need for some members to start bickering. Further such posts will be removed.

[neverdie]

Interesting that so many posters jumped down my throat regarding my earlier comment that I wouldn't fly this airline.

I never mentioned anywhere this was because of this pilots heart attack. Please show me where I said that.

Had it ever dawned on any of you that I might be making this statement for another reason?

Of course it wouldn't of had anything to do with the dozen or so incidents they've been involved in over the last 10 years or so or the fact that they are presently blacklisted in the EU.

And to the Captain that thinks P2F is such a great thing, I'm wondering how many hours you had before moving from the RHS to the left? Most people here wouldn't have any clue what P2F even is nor would they understand the importance of having two experienced pilots in the cockpit verses one & someone who's paid for a so called short cut. There's many pilots that feel very strongly about the P2F schemes around the world and they have their reasons for this, I guess you have your reasons for disagreeing.

I wonder if the FO on this flight had stress because he was P2F (& obviously I don't know if he was) however if he was maybe he was struggling to keep food on his families table as a result of paying to work verses earning a wage? I guess we will never know.

I find it odd when pilots embrace a system that is playing a direct part in downgrading the job & the conditions of the job itself.....not to mention safety.

Anyway, as I said earlier, my comments had absolutely nothing to do with this poor pilot & his heart issue.

I wonder if the guy in the RHS would of had the same success if the guy in the LHS had become incapacitated ?

Anyway, it's interesting there's so many aviation experts on this forum, I wonder how many of them have flown anything bigger than an ultralight or Microsoft SIM ? 5555555

[marios]

You would never, for love nor money, get me on this airline.

Why? We can only speculate now. Maybe he was 45 and apparently in excellent health. Sometimes checkups may not reveal all.

The verdict on the airline will be known after the particulars of the incident are known.

On a second thought, you may be right. I am not sure if I will travel with Malaysian in the near future although I know that the fear is irrational.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I have an airline I wont fly on either.

I met a guy & his wife at White Beer'd a few weeks ago.

It was about 11:30pm, he was very drunk and flying to Samui at 8:30 am the following morning.

Crazy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Completely legal in the USA. Have to refrain from drinking only 8 hours prior to your flight. Some airlines however require 12 hours but law only requires 8.

Yeah, but also not under any effects........ And more than ever they are breath testing, gone are tho old days of slamming shooters at 8 hours to go.

[gbswales]

even the headline is worded in a way that presents this as something that happened because it was a "budget airline". There is nothing wrong with the concept of budget airlines who reduce costs by stripping out unecessary things from their business. That does not mean that safety should be compromised and there is nothing indicated in the reporting that suggest that it was in this case. Most of the airline disasters we read about seem to involve large national carriers rather than the budget airlines - granted this is partly because they have many more flights but I dont see the evidence that you are less safe on a budget flight than you are in a first class cabin of a major airline. Anyone can have a heart attack even weeks after a positive health check - it is luck of the draw.

[mutha289]

Besides having a pilot's license all pilots must have a medical, irregardless of which airline they fly for. To make remarks, solely based on the death of a pilot, that this somehow indicates that the airline he works for is not to be trusted is just ignorant.

[silomplaya]

Note to self do not fly with lionair.

[ableguy]

I have an airline I wont fly on either.

I met a guy & his wife at White Beer'd a few weeks ago.

It was about 11:30pm, he was very drunk and flying to Samui at 8:30 am the following morning.

Crazy.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Completely legal in the USA. Have to refrain from drinking only 8 hours prior to your flight. Some airlines however require 12 hours but law only requires 8.

Breath tests are given at random, fail and your flying days are over.

[louse1953]

WOW - maybe I will give Lion Airlines a big miss. I wonder how old was the co-pilot. Sad end to his flying career.

WOW,why would you do that,all is well except for CO PILOT who is more concerned about the end of his life bugger his career.

[khrab]

I don't want to be picky, but two posters mentioned "from BKK".

Lion is operation from Don Mueang (DMK) only.