Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[Time Traveller]

this country is <deleted>,do they even think about tomorrow...

oh the horror!.... 90% of the people on TV forum now will not have any way to express the smugness by telling people to "get legal" or "stop rorting the system". How dare immigration bring you back to earth. You are entitled to feel like you are one of the "quality" foreigners and superior to those lowly visa runners.

Sad day for you

[cacruden]

A large number of those non-WP teachers that did not leave because of the enforcement of the rules, are probably in a situation where they overstayed their 30 days (at least half of those that remain) which means that they are still at risk when visiting the immigration office and not the airport. So this "relaxation" is too little too late for them.

They should create a fast-track low cost (lower salary standards) for positions like English teachers where they are in short supply.

So you think its a case of ......

They're coming to take you away ha'ha - ho'ho - hee'hee .. BS ..

HOW CAN U MAKE THIS ASSUMPTION ..Surely, immigration would have these figures mate .... can't guess .......and if this was the case we would have all heard about through the grapevine .........

I can make the assumption of either overstay based on the fact that they started warning people at the Airport 5 - 6 weeks ago (and preventing entry over border months earlier). The visa-waiver for non-WP is 30 days max. Hence, people that were warned would likely not have left the country if they wanted to stay hoping to figure out what to do next. You leave the country after the warning, you would likely have been turned away on entry -- a risk which many people would not take and use the extra 90 days before blacklisting to figure things out. Hence a large number that have remained now have probably overstayed, rather than risk not being able to enter and potentially complicate moving out of rental properties etc.

On overstay, the only safe place to report is at the airport with a ticket in hand. The place they are telling people to go is the immigration office and not the airport, but if you go to the immigration office and you are illegally residing now -- that is another complication.

Edited August 23, 2014 by cacruden

[elliss]

Hope to see some clarification in the coming week.

Only too be changed, the following week .

Confuseus.

[Nobbie49]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

That would be a good idea if only the process for getting a work permit wasn't so ridiculously complicated and expensive! Maybe an overhaul of the whole system followed by such an enforcement would be a better solution.

Complicated? Copy of your passport with visa, medical certificate, copy of your degree (try with a real one this time) and voila.

Expensive? Bht 3,000 per annum. If you call that complicated and expensive well then maybe you should be teaching in Cambodia.

[ScotBkk]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

I myself have several degrees.

But in tv you can get the 3rd Degree - Entièrement gratuit

[LifeOverHere]

A few suggestions that I would propose:

Visa Exempt Entries

Should be limited to 3 per year.

Tourist Visa

Tye current tourist visa is undoubtedly being abused, although limiting their issue could cause problems for tourists and immigration staff. Proof of funds should be requested during application (a bank statement from back home).

Non-immigrant "0" Visas

Should be scrapped and replaced by a 3 year temporary residence permit for those who can prove a link to Thailand (being married or having a child). This permit should allow the holder to work in industries, not restricted to Thais, without the need for any further permits. After 3 years, if the relationship is still real, it should automatically be upgraded to a permanent residence permit

Non-immigrant "B" Visas

Should be changed into a combination visa and work permit allowing the holder to work in that job for a maximum of 1 year. During the year, a Thai apprentice should be assigned to the worker and skills transfer should be a priority. At the end of the year, if the Thai apprentice can perform exactly the same task and to the same sandard, then the visa won't need to be renewed. The exeption would be for business owners providing employment for Thai nationals.

Retirement Visas

Should be scrapped and replaced by a proper investment visa. This will allow people of any age to invest, say $100000 - $500000, in Thai goverment sponsored initiatives. A visa should be issued for as long as the investment is maintained. The holder will not be allowed to work but should be able to volunteer.

Education Visas

Should be issued to genuine students for the length of their course. It should also allow a limited amount of work in the industry of the subject being studied. This will allow practical experience to be gained and a small amount of money to be earned to support their studies.

-----------------------------

All visas should require a thorough background check. Any convictions, or oustanding warrants, for major offences should blacklist the person form getting any visa. Any injunctions for lack of child support should also blacklist the applicant until the matter is settled.

There should be a 1 year exemption period to allow anyone, currently living here, to get their things in order.

Now to type this out more professionally and send it off to the Junta :-)

[BlackJack]

say?

do?

at your own discretion?

the World is watching

investors are waiting

tourists aren't coming

tick tock

[deesquared]

How did they know there was a shortage of teachers? Did the schools report the shortage? Because in doing so they would be outing themselves for not giving their teachers work permits.

[konying]

Ok, that is an important step in bring back tourism. Keep making it easy for tourist to stay. I know many that want to stay 6 onths.

Now the next step. Allow all bars in tourist areas to be open 24x7. Tourist do not have to go to work in the morning. That is why there is a bar closing rule in the world to begin with. When I was in Irland the closing time was around 11pm - serioulsy.

Let the night life keep rolling allowing tourist to spend money their maximum amount that will refeash the Thailand economy. All areas in the world that are tourist heavy allow bars to be open 24x7 and some even 365. Thirdly, protect the tourist and serve them.

Yes I am sure it's the alcoholics who revive and keep economies going worldwide

[AYJAYDEE]

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, Thailand has much on its plate ATM, make no mistake, the General knows how to chew gum and walk at the same time. He has the ability to make things happen, unlike some of those wobbly gum fools that were running around just a few months ago.

having seen a number of thai military governments, I'm not convinced they will run things well.

[somchaismith]

How did they know there was a shortage of teachers? Did the schools report the shortage? Because in doing so they would be outing themselves for not giving their teachers work permits.

Quite a few language schools supply teachers to the green machine.

[NomadJoe]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

That would be a good idea if only the process for getting a work permit wasn't so ridiculously complicated and expensive! Maybe an overhaul of the whole system followed by such an enforcement would be a better solution.

Complicated? Copy of your passport with visa, medical certificate, copy of your degree (try with a real one this time) and voila.

Expensive? Bht 3,000 per annum. If you call that complicated and expensive well then maybe you should be teaching in Cambodia.

Add in the requirements for the business visa and it does get more complicated and expensive.

Add in the starting of your own company in order to get a work permit. as many do, then it gets ridiculously expensive and complicated.

[ColdSingha]

Ok, that is an important step in bring back tourism. Keep making it easy for tourist to stay. I know many that want to stay 6 onths.

Now the next step. Allow all bars in tourist areas to be open 24x7. Tourist do not have to go to work in the morning. That is why there is a bar closing rule in the world to begin with. When I was in Irland the closing time was around 11pm - serioulsy.

Let the night life keep rolling allowing tourist to spend money their maximum amount that will refeash the Thailand economy. All areas in the world that are tourist heavy allow bars to be open 24x7 and some even 365. Thirdly, protect the tourist and serve them.

Maybe they should think about giving retirement visas to people under 50, if they have money to show they can live , what is the problem if they are young or old ? If they have money to stay and spend, and have clean criminal record, let's welcome than. Nobody can milk any system in Thailand, because there is no system, you pay for everything, so it makes sense to let people choose to spend their moneys in Thailand.

does your home country allow that?

would it make a difference to thai visa law? should they mirror the immigration laws of every country on earth?

[TinaKohChang]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

... you mean those genuine tourists, that produce accidents and can't provide health insurance from home?

them too

...ok, but beside of the 'genuine tourist', who are a burden to the Thai healthy stem, the other, increasing group of foreigners, blamed by Dr. Nara, are the retirees as is clearly stated in the article from last year August, that you've provided earlier.

He pointed to the significant percentage of foreign retirees, who use the hospitals and can not pay their bills. Larry Cunningham, Australia's honorary consul at that time on Phuket, added the issue of these (retired) foreigners as a growing burden on public hospitals and that it would just not being fair. that those retirees are blocking up the hospitals...

So? I do not see/read any reference to those individuals the original thread is about, and which obviously are the younger visa running long stayers who are not considered to be genuine tourists, no word about those people...I am a bit lost here... what are you trying to proof and are referring to?

you claiming visa runners and overstayers dont have accidents? what I was referring to was the claim made above, to wit: : " Here in Thailand there is no system to milk" and I simply provided evidence of a system that is milked: The health care system.

In my humble understanding, and referring to the article that you provided, the public health system seems to be milked mainly by a majority of 'genuine tourists' without a health insurance, as well as the increasing number of retirees, no one blames overstayers (who are btw. not at all part of the original thread) and visa runners (the original thread is all about) for being a burden to Thailand by milking the public health system!

Anyway, this entire discussion on the visa situation is gone crazy, a fact is that there is no proper visa available to help a growing number of GOOD and contributing people to help them staying legally in Thailand, longer than the max. of 180 days, in a row. That is the main, real issue here and inspecting visa runners more individually will not solve anything. Period!

nowhere did i claim to know which class of farang was milking the system more than any other. I merely pointed out there was a system available for milking. it was you who jumped to conclusions. and does your home country allow just anyone to decide they are good and contributing folks and just come and stay permanently?

No, I did not jumped on conclusions, it just is not that difficult to read in between your written lines....

My 'home country', the place where I was born and forced to live until turning 18 years of age being able to leave that country permanently and what exactly I did, has, whatever I think about this, my former country, always welcome people that would take care on them self financially and/or contributing with skills, money what so ever, as long as they accept and follow the law and rules. I have been living in various countries before I have chosen Thailand to be my home 10 years ago... the first 8 years running a real existing business with registered company, employing 5 to 8 Thai nationals constantly ..l I've paid more than the minimum wages, paid for health and social insurance, I paid tax of course and I had a WP to work myself. 2 years ago I sold the business and was in need of another visa since Non Immigrant B, was not my status anymore, I immediately returned the WP also. Not wanting to cheat the government, I decided NOT to go for any visa just for the papers, instead of misusing as ED, or marriage visa (would have been easy to marry a Thai just for a the papers to get that visa) I took the other, only available option which is the Tourist visa. Well it worked well, it was even approached and fully legal to travel out of the country all 90 days to return a few days later with a legally applied, paid for new Tourist Visa...To make a long story short, I am one of the GOOD ones that are f**ked by the system, and I have always contributed to Thai economy, community and society and I still continue doing so from day one, my business had been closed to today! But my time here soon will have an end, because I am not 50, not married to Thai and because I still refuse any illegal methods.etcmy home country has no seen me for ages, in fact my real home is here in Thailand, in my rented home, with my friends, neighbors, social life, my animals that have been born here, all belongings and assets that are a typical part of someone that has built a home, a life...not to mention the community 'work', that always has been a pleasure to provide, WITHOUT asking anything in return... I have chosen Thailand to be my home over 10 years ago and sorry for not being humble here anymore, I have only given I have never asked for anything and I have never, ever been a burden to my hosts! But I have to leave my home soon...

[Bardeh]

I don't understand this announcement at all. Is it not a tacit admittance that there are many English teachers working illegally? And they want this to continue? Instead, why don't they change their laws regarding Work Permits and Visas for foreign teachers to make them faster and easier to obtain? The mind boggles.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Bardeh

[lostmebike]

Blind leading the blind.

[icare999]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Who has the time/resources to monitor a person who possesses no credentials whatsoever?

It does not take any degree of intelligence to get a certificate in TEFL (or any other similar program). But does that make a teacher? Heck no!

I want a person who has taken Child Psychology classes; a person that has demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that they can complete a university degree (which btw, isn't difficult).

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

your totally wrong I have 2 degrees and a vert Ed from 3 universities and i taught for a little while but to be honest some of best teachers i saw where nowhere as qualified as me. In those days you could teach in UK with A levels and some of teachers i met only just scrapped through but were I'm sorry to say much better teachers than me except at university level where i also taught for a while and for that you do need very high academic qualifications. As far as psychology classes sure i had all that but again IMO most parents would know 10 times what i was taught on that subject.

[ColdSingha]

I agree with you.

I wanted to be an electrical engineer i went to school and got my degree. if you want to teach here and that is the requirement then just do it.

A dive instructor needs to be certified, a car mechanic needs his tools to do his job. I wouldn't want a pilot not to be qualified, governments, companies etc have their requirements if you want to do that job get the qualifications needed to do it. A thai friend of mine wanted to work in the industrial area in Rayong. He went to school and got degree to allow him to work in the industrial arena, not just do construction work.

The problem is that the vast majority of schools in Thailand still pay the same wages they did 10 years ago. Go to Ajarn.com and look at the teaching jobs posted there. Most of them come with a salary that is between 25K baht and 40K. Would you pay to go to university and spend a few years getting a degree only to make 30K per month?

I wouldn't. Teachers with a legit degree can make 3 times that in Japan, South Korea or even the Middle East.

"entertainment" and living expenses are far lower here though..

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Being a native English speaker, who majored in English, minored in German and who is in his 2nd work permit - that's the experience of a friend who taught at our local secondary school for a year before taking a slot at a bigger school in a city. He visited again and news of his visit brought a buzz of excitement among the teachers. He was liked by staff an students alike, and is missed. He was one who did prepare for classes... and made it interesting. alt=thumbsup.gif>
Observing teachers and certifying their effectiveness sounds to me like one interim step to keep him and others - longer..
The thing is, he's not sure he'll be allowed another work permit. As he's seeing the rules, he's only allowed two work permits before he either takes teacher courses or needs to cease teaching. (Currently, his only teacher's course is TEFL.)
The confusion as to what is required or not - that alone may force him to plan to leave the country. How many others are also caught in this? alt=unsure.png>

I thought that if a person's degree was education/English language related you were exempt from the teachers licence examimation?

I could well be wrong with that as I am not in the educational field. Can someone please clarify?

Just interested.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

This is the first of many about faces to come. The Thai economy is now tanking and gaining downward momentum. Clearing bamboo huts off Phuket beaches does not an economy make.

[watso63]

I've only read the first few posts, so if anyone has already made this point, then I apologise, but ten pages of posts would take a bit of wading through and I am a little busy today.

A retirement extension requires 800,000 Thb in the bank, 65,000 Thb/month or a combination of the two. Plenty of, I'm the only native English speaking farang in the village in Nakhon Nowhere. These places find it near impossible to recruit and retain degree educated teaching staff. Judging by the standard of spoken English I hear from Thais in most of the places I have been to in Thailand (BKK, cities and tourist areas excepted) these people could and should be allowed to help out in their local area, paid or unpaid. For example it's usually, you, you, you, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsernal, Whisaky Thai...a feel of your arm and leg??? then that's about it. Most have raised children so have the "experience" to teach language. Plenty of info on the internet on how to lesson plan etc and it just might give a bit of mojo back in their lives.

Edited August 23, 2014 by watso63

[Eliot Rosewater]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Someone who is passionate about teaching will do what they need to do to get qualified

A good teacher needs both the art (innate) AND the science (training)

[atyclb]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

agree 100% and i am a crap english language teacher and english is my first language 2 degrees to boot (undergrad and doctorate). i fully support what you say and a degree should not be an english teacher requirement.

[animatic]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

That would be a good idea if only the process for getting a work permit wasn't so ridiculously complicated and expensive! Maybe an overhaul of the whole system followed by such an enforcement would be a better solution.

Well that is the issue right there.

If it were possible for language schools to afford qualified teachers, even at bargain basement salaries, then they would, but the arcane rules and fees to get a work permit means they can not do so. So they just offer to pay and let the prospective visa running teacher be in his own look out for legality. Sure there are dodgy types doing illegal things for a living and not following any rules, but the English teacher types are usually just trying to stay in Thailand, do their useful job and not make waves.

Useful job, if you consider the sad level of English skills from Thais trained by 'Thai English teachers', at unis or schools. It becomes clear that native English speakers teaching Thais AND Thai English teachers, is the ONLY route to reasonable preparation for ASEAN opening of borders. English being the only common language of commerce between ASEAN nations. The uni grads I meet mostly have very poor English, a joke to most native speakers, most acknowlege this up front, but have no affordable recourse to improve. But those who took the time and expense to go to native English speaking teacher have a notably higher level of communication skills in English.

Locking out competent English teachers from affordable AND legal work in Thailand, punishes Thailand more than the visa runners it is stressed out about. Besides that the situation has been created by Thailand's one hand doesn't know what the other is doing way of making laws on the fly.

Edited August 23, 2014 by animatic

[ScotBkk]

No, I did not jumped on conclusions, it just is not that difficult to read in between your written lines....

My 'home country', the place where I was born and forced to live until turning 18 years of age being able to leave that country permanently and what exactly I did, has, whatever I think about this, my former country, always welcome people that would take care on them self financially and/or contributing with skills, money what so ever, as long as they accept and follow the law and rules. I have been living in various countries before I have chosen Thailand to be my home 10 years ago... the first 8 years running a real existing business with registered company, employing 5 to 8 Thai nationals constantly ..l I've paid more than the minimum wages, paid for health and social insurance, I paid tax of course and I had a WP to work myself. 2 years ago I sold the business and was in need of another visa since Non Immigrant B, was not my status anymore, I immediately returned the WP also. Not wanting to cheat the government, I decided NOT to go for any visa just for the papers, instead of misusing as ED, or marriage visa (would have been easy to marry a Thai just for a the papers to get that visa) I took the other, only available option which is the Tourist visa. Well it worked well, it was even approached and fully legal to travel out of the country all 90 days to return a few days later with a legally applied, paid for new Tourist Visa...To make a long story short, I am one of the GOOD ones that are f**ked by the system, and I have always contributed to Thai economy, community and society and I still continue doing so from day one, my business had been closed to today! But my time here soon will have an end, because I am not 50, not married to Thai and because I still refuse any illegal methods.etcmy home country has no seen me for ages, in fact my real home is here in Thailand, in my rented home, with my friends, neighbors, social life, my animals that have been born here, all belongings and assets that are a typical part of someone that has built a home, a life...not to mention the community 'work', that always has been a pleasure to provide, WITHOUT asking anything in return... I have chosen Thailand to be my home over 10 years ago and sorry for not being humble here anymore, I have only given I have never asked for anything and I have never, ever been a burden to my hosts! But I have to leave my home soon...

Nice story, However think you've came to the wrong place looking for sympathy on some of these - TV topics. These trumped up diciplinarains main aim is to confuse you, then rip you to shreds, eapecially once you don't accept their personal Thainess experiences which to them is 'written in concrete' as far as they're concerned.

I wish you well in your crusade to sty in Thailand now and in the future.......................

Edited August 23, 2014 by ScotBkk

[Lite Beer]

Coup leader calls for Immigration to relax ‘out-in’ visa clampdown
Alasdair Forbes

'An ongoing problem' – Gen Prayuth Chan-Ocha. Photo USDOD

BANGKOK: Thailand’s coup leader and prime minister-in-waiting, Gen Prayuth Chan-Ocha last night (August 22) called for the Immigration crackdown on “out-in” tourist visas to be rolled back.

During his weekly TV briefing to the nation, aired on all channels, the general said he had ordered the Immigration Police to be “more flexible” in its application of the law.

Immigration recently cracked down on the number of times a foreigner may cross the border into a neighbouring country, turn around and re-enter the country on a new tourist visa.

Many of the people doing multiple out-in tourist visas were believed to be working in the country illegally, often as teachers or tour guides.

According to the English subtitles of his speech, the general said he was concerned that the clampdown – whereby people doing out-in visas are required to prove they are genuine tourists, or be barred from entry – was affecting schools and the tourist industry.

“This is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides,” he said.

The statement will shock many in the bureaucracy, on several levels. First, it is illegal to work while in Thailand on a tourist visa. Second, people working illegally pay no tax. And third, foreigners may not be guides in Thailand; that is a profession reserved for Thais only.

The crackdown was launched by the then-national commander of Thai Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon, who told The Phuket News on May 13, just nine days before the coup, that multiple out-in visa runs would no longer be tolerated. He has since been sidelined.

The question of foreigners working as tour guides has long been a troubled one. Although Thais alone may be tour guides, there are very few Thai guides who speak, for example, Korean or Russian, for which there is great demand. This fuels the number of people working illegally.

Even if Immigration now turn a blind eye to out-in visa runners, it will not solve the problems of unqualified foreigners teaching languages or foreign guides knowing nothing about the island’s history and making it up as they go along, leaving the tourists they instruct with a twisted understanding of Thai culture and history.

Thousands of foreigners in Phuket will be watching this issue with great interest.

-- Phuket News 2014-08-23

[AYJAYDEE]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

... you mean those genuine tourists, that produce accidents and can't provide health insurance from home?

them too

...ok, but beside of the 'genuine tourist', who are a burden to the Thai healthy stem, the other, increasing group of foreigners, blamed by Dr. Nara, are the retirees as is clearly stated in the article from last year August, that you've provided earlier.

He pointed to the significant percentage of foreign retirees, who use the hospitals and can not pay their bills. Larry Cunningham, Australia's honorary consul at that time on Phuket, added the issue of these (retired) foreigners as a growing burden on public hospitals and that it would just not being fair. that those retirees are blocking up the hospitals...

So? I do not see/read any reference to those individuals the original thread is about, and which obviously are the younger visa running long stayers who are not considered to be genuine tourists, no word about those people...I am a bit lost here... what are you trying to proof and are referring to?

you claiming visa runners and overstayers dont have accidents? what I was referring to was the claim made above, to wit: : " Here in Thailand there is no system to milk" and I simply provided evidence of a system that is milked: The health care system.

In my humble understanding, and referring to the article that you provided, the public health system seems to be milked mainly by a majority of 'genuine tourists' without a health insurance, as well as the increasing number of retirees, no one blames overstayers (who are btw. not at all part of the original thread) and visa runners (the original thread is all about) for being a burden to Thailand by milking the public health system!

Anyway, this entire discussion on the visa situation is gone crazy, a fact is that there is no proper visa available to help a growing number of GOOD and contributing people to help them staying legally in Thailand, longer than the max. of 180 days, in a row. That is the main, real issue here and inspecting visa runners more individually will not solve anything. Period!

nowhere did i claim to know which class of farang was milking the system more than any other. I merely pointed out there was a system available for milking. it was you who jumped to conclusions. and does your home country allow just anyone to decide they are good and contributing folks and just come and stay permanently?

No, I did not jumped on conclusions, it just is not that difficult to read in between your written lines....

My 'home country', the place where I was born and forced to live until turning 18 years of age being able to leave that country permanently and what exactly I did, has, whatever I think about this, my former country, always welcome people that would take care on them self financially and/or contributing with skills, money what so ever, as long as they accept and follow the law and rules. I have been living in various countries before I have chosen Thailand to be my home 10 years ago... the first 8 years running a real existing business with registered company, employing 5 to 8 Thai nationals constantly ..l I've paid more than the minimum wages, paid for health and social insurance, I paid tax of course and I had a WP to work myself. 2 years ago I sold the business and was in need of another visa since Non Immigrant B, was not my status anymore, I immediately returned the WP also. Not wanting to cheat the government, I decided NOT to go for any visa just for the papers, instead of misusing as ED, or marriage visa (would have been easy to marry a Thai just for a the papers to get that visa) I took the other, only available option which is the Tourist visa. Well it worked well, it was even approached and fully legal to travel out of the country all 90 days to return a few days later with a legally applied, paid for new Tourist Visa...To make a long story short, I am one of the GOOD ones that are f**ked by the system, and I have always contributed to Thai economy, community and society and I still continue doing so from day one, my business had been closed to today! But my time here soon will have an end, because I am not 50, not married to Thai and because I still refuse any illegal methods.etcmy home country has no seen me for ages, in fact my real home is here in Thailand, in my rented home, with my friends, neighbors, social life, my animals that have been born here, all belongings and assets that are a typical part of someone that has built a home, a life...not to mention the community 'work', that always has been a pleasure to provide, WITHOUT asking anything in return... I have chosen Thailand to be my home over 10 years ago and sorry for not being humble here anymore, I have only given I have never asked for anything and I have never, ever been a burden to my hosts! But I have to leave my home soon...

you may have chosen thailand but they obviously have not chosen you. but what does all that have to do with my comment about farang abuse of the healthcare system?

[Suttisan]

Surely this move is just about not losing the tourist figures, he doesn't want an economy slump whilst he's in charge. Good news for those teaching English for 300 baht an hour though, As usual in Thailand new rules, crackdowns, etc. are not to be taken seriously. Except loads of unqualified English teachers to stop their ED visas and get back on board the Jackgoff tour bus.

[Baerboxer]

Land of the FREE FREE FREE

Our COUNTRY does …. The UK, which is practically open to anyone wanting an easy system with benefits thrown in – free health system and much more free assistances for all and sundry.. hence the reason people leave in their droves …………

Oh really? Maybe you should read all those who post on here because they can't get visa entry clearance for their wives, girlfriends, children, relatives etc. before spouting off more nonsense. The rules on visas, ILR, Citizenship ain't easy at all.

Now, turn up as an illegal and claim asylum is a different matter,.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Yep, someone from the TAT had a quiet chat with the good general and showed him this months arrival stats...down 50 percent.