Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[GOLDBUGGY]

No Surprises Here! So I wonder why they were surprised when this happened?

It seems that they needed a bit more thought before actual enforcement, which I think most would agree to now. Perhaps more enforcement on the schools themselves and less on the teachers. Or a simple way to make them legal.

[ScotBkk]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Being a native English speaker, who majored in English, minored in German and who is in his 2nd work permit - that's the experience of a friend who taught at our local secondary school for a year before taking a slot at a bigger school in a city. He visited again and news of his visit brought a buzz of excitement among the teachers. He was liked by staff an students alike, and is missed. He was one who did prepare for classes... and made it interesting.

Observing teachers and certifying their effectiveness sounds to me like one interim step to keep him and others - longer..

The thing is, he's not sure he'll be allowed another work permit. As he's seeing the rules, he's only allowed two work permits before he either takes teacher courses or needs to cease teaching. (Currently, his only teacher's course is TEFL.)

The confusion as to what is required or not - that alone may force him to plan to leave the country. How many others are also caught in this?

RPCVguy

Your post is the kind of reply that hits home the inaccuracies that are being served up to all and sundry in this profession albeit semi-profession. They need make inroads for such people who help the Thai children improve their learning abilities other than others in here on tv make out they’re the scourge of the earth. Surely, certain authorities could appoint a group of Professionals to quickly assess TOEFL Teachers capabilities before letting them teach kids.

Would that be too much to ask ?

Edited August 23, 2014 by ScotBkk

[mikecat]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I agree,

We need to remember that that we are generally talking about teaching English Conversation. A good TEFL with practical in Thailand class observations and screening process would be the way to go, but this would undermine the power of the MOE. The other part of the process should be a vetting of the school to ensure that their recruitment, orientation and facilitation of ongoing training processes are in place and being applied.

[TinaKohChang]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

... you mean those genuine tourists, that produce accidents and can't provide health insurance from home?

[Somtamnication]

The fact that he acknowledged the problem, shows that this visa thing has hurt the schools in a huge way. Interesting how this is being looked at by the higher ups.

[alanrchase]

All you can take from the report is that the visa runner may be overlooked if they report to immigration. What happens after they report is pure speculation at the moment.

[AYJAYDEE]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

... you mean those genuine tourists, that produce accidents and can't provide health insurance from home?

them too

[neverdie]

Pray tell me,

I had predicted this amongst other things. Now would like to know how the -One Foot In The Grave Hardliners are coping with this news. It must be like a bombshell has hit their impetus and calmed the waters far too quickly. How will they now demand respect or irk out more attention to Irritate or vex tv members with their vile scorn.

Feel wonderful .. Thank you Thaivisa for these good tidings and hopefully more to come ...

Power to the People .............

There's a lot of people celebrating 'not much' ATM.

A complete overhaul to the entire 'system' is well and truely needed and long overdue. All visas right across the board.

The man in charge is a micro manager & the system has needed exactly one of these for a long time. Anyone that thinks the old system will return and that will be the end of the story may be in for a rude shock.

A short time ago, in another thread I said that a complete overhaul of all Visas was required & I for one hope the new system is a lot fairer but is also designed to keep the undesirables from conducting business as they were allowed under the old way.

Stand-by for a series of changes and hopefully improvement before you celebrate as it is in the world there is no system anywhere in the world that satisfies everyone.

I think the Generals attention to the current system is a good thing, but probably not for the same reasons some of you think it. The really good news is yet to come.

[howzat]

The General says be flexible as could lead to shortage of teachers. Does this mean that he accepts that teachers can work here illegally without work permits or any form of long stay visa.

Why doesn't he force schools to give qualified teachers full time or part time some form of work permit and what about the teachers working privately without work permits.

Can some one explain as his statement is ambiguous and seems to suggest that teachers are OK to work here without work permits.

[ScotBkk]

Ok, so when do they start the next relaxation on the ED visas since, this is surely another bi-factor analysis needed propped up to keep the TAT figures flowing to entice more people to Thailand ... just saying

[seawander]

Yes they are concerned about Teachers , Tourist Guides , waitresses, dancers as Tourism I hear is down by 50%

and then there are the many Tourist Visa people who are in defacto relationships with Thai lady who pay for the children and extended family livings costs. Such as cars houses rent and so on , if that was to stop many Thai families would fall on hard times.

Thailand needs to have a defacto visa like most of the other countries in the world, and it can work the same as a married visa as far as money and income is required, so you can take these people out of the Tourist Visa run category

The other aspect of the visa run Thailand should do what Laos does and charge a border entry fee say of 50 THB for land sea and air crossings.

Also have a visa on arrival say for 30 days at the border for 1900 THB

Just some thoughts

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes they are concerned about Teachers , Tourist Guides , waitresses, dancers as Tourism I hear is down by 50%

and then there are the many Tourist Visa people who are in defacto relationships with Thai lady who pay for the children and extended family livings costs. Such as cars houses rent and so on , if that was to stop many Thai families would fall on hard times.

Thailand needs to have a defacto visa like most of the other countries in the world, and it can work the same as a married visa as far as money and income is required, so you can take these people out of the Tourist Visa run category

The other aspect of the visa run Thailand should do what Laos does and charge a border entry fee say of 50 THB for land sea and air crossings.

Also have a visa on arrival say for 30 days at the border for 1900 THB

Just some thoughts

what is a defacto visa?

[VINCENT2012]

no sir...don't be flexible, at the end it is going to be a big mess again......!

Autorities are going to interprete THE LAW one way or another depending of the face of the candidate and his money.

[neverdie]

Yes they are concerned about Teachers , Tourist Guides , waitresses, dancers as Tourism I hear is down by 50%

and then there are the many Tourist Visa people who are in defacto relationships with Thai lady who pay for the children and extended family livings costs. Such as cars houses rent and so on , if that was to stop many Thai families would fall on hard times.

Thailand needs to have a defacto visa like most of the other countries in the world, and it can work the same as a married visa as far as money and income is required, so you can take these people out of the Tourist Visa run category

The other aspect of the visa run Thailand should do what Laos does and charge a border entry fee say of 50 THB for land sea and air crossings.

Also have a visa on arrival say for 30 days at the border for 1900 THB

Just some thoughts

what is a defacto visa?

He probably means a visa for anyone in a relationship & residing with, as opposed to just marriage.

It would be open slather, however, it seems unfair that gay, lesbian & transgendered people cannot have a marriage visa, despite many cases where couples have been together for many years and even decades, yet their relationships are not recognised. It would be more important to recognise these people before opening up a system where any two pot relationship could be recognised as legit, eg: two that just met in a pub and hire a Thai apartment for the last 7 days or something like that.

[WorthyDan]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The degree requirement is not going to change.

We all know there are good and bad teachers with and without degrees. Lets not start that debate again.

Thailand does not need more western drop outs coming here. If you are so passionate about teaching, invest in more than a 4 week cert. SIMPLE.

Yes, good and bad. Degree atleast shows the person is capable of committing. No system will be perfect. The school should go through a more extensive hiring process that includes scanning resumes and contacting sources. Agree, 4 week course means nothing.

[Strangebrew]

Should be like school want English teachers? then schools should be the applying for work permit for said teacher. If a teacher is found to be without work permit the school who hired them is at fault and should receive a hefty fine. the teacher in question could be asked if they would accept a teaching job in another school that will get permit for them if not then they could go back to there home country no fine no blacklist, thus no problem. Or another way is allow a farang to setup an office for would be teachers get permits for teachers and do all the paperwork, schools contact the office with contract for teachers needed the office supplies the teachers with valid work permit. Immigration issue visa for length of contract for teacher. No visa runs for teacher During vacation time if school renews contract, teacher goes to immigration with new contract to get reissue of visa for term of contract. simple hassle free. But if during there vacation time teacher wishes to travel then they go get multi entry stamp in passport. Now you have teachers who are willing to work for the low wages. The fees should either free or at reduced rate since there bring value to Thailand.

[moe666]

Damn, it looks like the dead wood lucked out again

[Tatsujin]

And tomoro there will be yet another announcement/restriction/change/enforcement/crackdown and something else that was always acceptable will become unacceptable.

It's Thailand . . . the land of little thought and constant cycles of changes.

[BenCrew]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Yes, the headline 'MOE told to be flexible with teacher's,' would be welcomed.

Edited August 23, 2014 by BenCrew

[ScotBkk]

Pray tell me,

I had predicted this amongst other things. Now would like to know how the -One Foot In The Grave Hardliners are coping with this news. It must be like a bombshell has hit their impetus and calmed the waters far too quickly. How will they now demand respect or irk out more attention to Irritate or vex tv members with their vile scorn.

Feel wonderful .. Thank you Thaivisa for these good tidings and hopefully more to come ...

Power to the People .............

There's a lot of people celebrating 'not much' ATM.

A complete overhaul to the entire 'system' is well and truely needed and long overdue. All visas right across the board.

The man in charge is a micro manager & the system has needed exactly one of these for a long time. Anyone that thinks the old system will return and that will be the end of the story may be in for a rude shock.

A short time ago, in another thread I said that a complete overhaul of all Visas was required & I for one hope the new system is a lot fairer but is also designed to keep the undesirables from conducting business as they were allowed under the old way.

Stand-by for a series of changes and hopefully improvement before you celebrate as it is in the world there is no system anywhere in the world that satisfies everyone.

I think the Generals attention to the current system is a good thing, but probably not for the same reasons some of you think it. The really good news is yet to come.

Neverdie, I do agree emphatically. However, was truly not trying to imply we revert back to the old system and all rejoice. To be true, was merrily suggesting that more should be done to avoid these frequent shocks sent throughout Thailand directed at Farangs/Tourists and the like. Subsequently, save all this pandemonium that is effecting tourism figures and creating all this negativity.

People readily pouring scorn on others on a daily basis on tv members like teachers and so on, surely doesn’t install confidence in any tv members who relay what’s been implied or even wrongly endorsed as gospel. You yourself, I’ve noticed, hold back now and again to save you getting confrontational which has my respect. I’ve held myself back a lot more ‘taking onboard your experiences’ how to play this game otherwise it gets a little too personal.

Thank you again my friend.

Edited August 23, 2014 by ScotBkk

[Emster23]

Thinking back to uni days, the only professors who had teaching degrees were is school of Education. Some how most of them did fairly well..... (I have masters i Ed btw). Degree in psychology perhaps one of better degrees to have for someone in teaching profession..... carry on.

[BenCrew]

Damn, it looks like the dead wood lucked out again

[Thai Visa Service]

The damage to the Tourist Industry, real tourism and/or fake tourism, has been done already.

This whole crackdown was so poorly announced and handled that it is a shame.

[AYJAYDEE]

Pray tell me,

I had predicted this amongst other things. Now would like to know how the -One Foot In The Grave Hardliners are coping with this news. It must be like a bombshell has hit their impetus and calmed the waters far too quickly. How will they now demand respect or irk out more attention to Irritate or vex tv members with their vile scorn.

Feel wonderful .. Thank you Thaivisa for these good tidings and hopefully more to come ...

Power to the People .............

There's a lot of people celebrating 'not much' ATM.

A complete overhaul to the entire 'system' is well and truely needed and long overdue. All visas right across the board.

The man in charge is a micro manager & the system has needed exactly one of these for a long time. Anyone that thinks the old system will return and that will be the end of the story may be in for a rude shock.

A short time ago, in another thread I said that a complete overhaul of all Visas was required & I for one hope the new system is a lot fairer but is also designed to keep the undesirables from conducting business as they were allowed under the old way.

Stand-by for a series of changes and hopefully improvement before you celebrate as it is in the world there is no system anywhere in the world that satisfies everyone.

I think the Generals attention to the current system is a good thing, but probably not for the same reasons some of you think it. The really good news is yet to come.

Neverdie, I do agree emphatically. However, was truly not trying to imply we revert back to the old system and all rejoice. To be true, was merrily suggesting that more should be done to avoid these frequent shocks sent throughout Thailand directed at Farangs/Tourists and the like. Subsequently, save all this pandemonium that is effecting tourism figures and creating all this negativity.

People readily pouring scorn on others on a daily basis on tv members like teachers and so on, surely doesn’t install confidence in any tv members who relay what’s been implied or even wrongly endorsed as gospel. You yourself, I’ve noticed, hold back now and again to save you getting confrontational which has my respect. I’ve held myself back a lot more ‘taking onboard your experiences’ how to play this game otherwise it gets a little too personal.

ou

Thank you again my friend.

thailand goes thru a long protest, some bombings followed by a military takeover. shocks directed at farangs is not exactly no1 on the priority list.

[smedly]

ok I've only read the first two pages of this thread but

are you people really honestly knocking him for this

<deleted> grow up and get you head out of your *** this issue has been dealt with from the man at the top - now move along

[ScotBkk]

Pray tell me,

I had predicted this amongst other things. Now would like to know how the -One Foot In The Grave Hardliners are coping with this news. It must be like a bombshell has hit their impetus and calmed the waters far too quickly. How will they now demand respect or irk out more attention to Irritate or vex tv members with their vile scorn.

Feel wonderful .. Thank you Thaivisa for these good tidings and hopefully more to come ...

Power to the People .............

There's a lot of people celebrating 'not much' ATM.

A complete overhaul to the entire 'system' is well and truely needed and long overdue. All visas right across the board.

The man in charge is a micro manager & the system has needed exactly one of these for a long time. Anyone that thinks the old system will return and that will be the end of the story may be in for a rude shock.

A short time ago, in another thread I said that a complete overhaul of all Visas was required & I for one hope the new system is a lot fairer but is also designed to keep the undesirables from conducting business as they were allowed under the old way.

Stand-by for a series of changes and hopefully improvement before you celebrate as it is in the world there is no system anywhere in the world that satisfies everyone.

I think the Generals attention to the current system is a good thing, but probably not for the same reasons some of you think it. The really good news is yet to come.

Neverdie, I do agree emphatically. However, was truly not trying to imply we revert back to the old system and all rejoice. To be true, was merrily suggesting that more should be done to avoid these frequent shocks sent throughout Thailand directed at Farangs/Tourists and the like. Subsequently, save all this pandemonium that is effecting tourism figures and creating all this negativity.

People readily pouring scorn on others on a daily basis on tv members like teachers and so on, surely doesn’t install confidence in any tv members who relay what’s been implied or even wrongly endorsed as gospel. You yourself, I’ve noticed, hold back now and again to save you getting confrontational which has my respect. I’ve held myself back a lot more ‘taking onboard your experiences’ how to play this game otherwise it gets a little too personal.

ou

Thank you again my friend.

thailand goes thru a long protest, some bombings followed by a military takeover. shocks directed at farangs is not exactly no1 on the priority list.

I'm not going to get into a debate about your comments. However, please tell me. Are all these posts not in relation to the said' topic or am I mistaken ????

[Carrerakiss]

Let's hope for the sake of every decent young teacher Flexible translated into Thai and back into English means "look the other way"

The problem is that Thais have been 'looking the other way' for WAY too long and that's why it's in the mess it's in, and why it needed yet another coup to sort the country out ...

If this 'looking the other way' over visas is indicative of the way the junta is going, then I don't hold out much hope for Thailand ...

Up to now, Gen Prayut has been doing a damn fine job of looking directly at problems and trying to deal with them. Don't spoil it now, General ...

That's the difference between being a general and being a PM. One is tasked with enforcing strict rules in a disciplined environment, the other lives in the real world.

Btw, why did the general/PM mention the impact on the guide industry? Teachers I can understand, but I thought the guide industry is strictly reserved for Thais and there is no legal way for a farang to do it.

[neverdie]

Pray tell me,

I had predicted this amongst other things. Now would like to know how the -One Foot In The Grave Hardliners are coping with this news. It must be like a bombshell has hit their impetus and calmed the waters far too quickly. How will they now demand respect or irk out more attention to Irritate or vex tv members with their vile scorn.

Feel wonderful .. Thank you Thaivisa for these good tidings and hopefully more to come ...

Power to the People .............

There's a lot of people celebrating 'not much' ATM.

A complete overhaul to the entire 'system' is well and truely needed and long overdue. All visas right across the board.

The man in charge is a micro manager & the system has needed exactly one of these for a long time. Anyone that thinks the old system will return and that will be the end of the story may be in for a rude shock.

A short time ago, in another thread I said that a complete overhaul of all Visas was required & I for one hope the new system is a lot fairer but is also designed to keep the undesirables from conducting business as they were allowed under the old way.

Stand-by for a series of changes and hopefully improvement before you celebrate as it is in the world there is no system anywhere in the world that satisfies everyone.

I think the Generals attention to the current system is a good thing, but probably not for the same reasons some of you think it. The really good news is yet to come.

Neverdie, I do agree emphatically. However, was truly not trying to imply we revert back to the old system and all rejoice. To be true, was merrily suggesting that more should be done to avoid these frequent shocks sent throughout Thailand directed at Farangs/Tourists and the like. Subsequently, save all this pandemonium that is effecting tourism figures and creating all this negativity.

People readily pouring scorn on others on a daily basis on tv members like teachers and so on, surely doesnt install confidence in any tv members who relay whats been implied or even wrongly endorsed as gospel. You yourself, Ive noticed, hold back now and again to save you getting confrontational which has my respect. Ive held myself back a lot more taking onboard your experiences how to play this game otherwise it gets a little too personal.

Thank you again my friend.

Scot,

No problem mate, I'm not singling you out, nor do I feel any resentment towards you but there are certain characters here celebrating something yet they may be in be for a by rude shock once the visa system is overhauled. I'd bet my right nut there will be significant changes coming in the near future, I applaude that.

You are right, a system of certainty is need, a fair system for people doing the right things and a difficult system for the wrongdoers.

A fair system is needed. The system of visa running and allowing anyone to do anything they want isn't in Thailand's best interest & it must be an absolute nightmare for the people running to the border every 10 seconds or how often they do it.

Some of the people here expect unlimited and easy access to the country & that's not reasonable IMO. Thais certainly don't get that O/S. Having said that, the current system across all visa cateogries is adhoc at best and hardly fair to people being subjected to it.

[AYJAYDEE]

I'm not going to get into a debate about your comments. However, please tell me. Are all these posts not in relation to the said' topic or am I mistaken ????

havent read em all

[TinaKohChang]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

... you mean those genuine tourists, that produce accidents and can't provide health insurance from home?

them too

...ok, but besides the now called 'genuine tourists', who are considered of being a burden to the Thai public health system, that the other, even increasing, major group of foreigners, blamed by Dr. Nara, are the retirees as it is clearly stated in the article from last year August, that you've provided earlier

He pointed to the significant percentage of foreign retirees, who use the hospitals and can not pay their bills and Mr. Cunningham, Australia's honorary consul at that time on Phuket, added that the issue of these (retired) foreigners would be a growing burden on public hospitals and that it would be just not fair, that those retirees are blocking up the hospitals...

So? I do not see/read any reference to those individuals the original thread is about, ...that's obviously the younger visa running folks, other non retired long stayers who are not considered to be genuine tourists, no word about those people...I am a bit lost here... what are you trying to proof and are referring to?

Edited August 23, 2014 by TinaKohChang