Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[jpinx]

I have to say that the lack of forward-planning by many posters, bearing in mind the 'fragility' of the Thai political system, fragility of something that we cannot mention, and 'time-limits' (ie work permit, tax paid) on being able to apply for PR or citizenship, astounds me.

Are you sure you're not all going local? ==> think for today and don't plan for tomorrow?

Come on Simon -- do you have any knowledge of anyone being uprooted because of the changes in the system during the last 20 - 30 years ?

As I said before - in your position I'd be a lot more concerned about the rules for hotels and property ownership tightening up. See the recent clamp-down on nominee directorships in Pattaya for starters........

[Mudcrab]

The bigger worry might be from your own Governments. They may decide to cut the pension off for non-residents.

Can't happen you say?

Australia has done it.

6 weeks overseas and that's it. Plus a few other conditions - must have been in country for the 2 years prior to applying and then the level is tested on how long you were actually in country overall. Less time in country then the less the OAP.

They are even looking at cutting off the disability pension to some of our people currently chopping peoples heads off in the Middle East. Wow, what a concept!!

Lets think about the pension rationally. The Government pays the pension with (current) taxpayers money. They would rather keep this money in the local economy.

Forget the nonsense about "I worked for a hundred years and I'm entitled to it". That is irrelevant. When you worked you were paying taxes to support the people already on the pension.

Same same.

[NativeSon360]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

Sounds more like a hard up problem than hard on

"Where have all the flowers gone?",

[simon43]

See the recent clamp-down on nominee directorships in Pattaya for starters

Off-topic, but I have nothing to concern myself about clampdown on nominees, thanks for your concern

[givenall]

there are so many other possibilities for staying her, if no retirement, then marry or have kid or adapt one, etc. etc.

[jpinx]

See the recent clamp-down on nominee directorships in Pattaya for starters

Off-topic, but I have nothing to concern myself about clampdown on nominees, thanks for your concern

Certainly very much on-topic for those retirees who are involved with Thai companies as part of their life-style and income.

[Bernard Flint]

there are so many other possibilities for staying her, if no retirement, then marry or have kid or adapt one, etc. etc.

Adapt one????

What should i adapt one to

[kokesaat]

Getting an retirement extension has gotten easier over the years....at least in Udon. Better facilities, free coffee, friendlier staff and more of them......Way easier to get the same extension that 5 or 10 years ago, despite the requirements being about the same.

Anything can happen.....if you're living here on a shoestring, then you might have cause to worry. And in any case, a hip pocket plan B is always a good idea. But not the sort of thing to lose sleep over.

[ggt]

At 90 years old...you are more likely to be worried about your next BM...than rules for retirement...

[mesquite]

I think the odds of the retirement visa extension requirements changing substantially are the same as the odds of being stripped of Thai citizenship obtained through naturalization: close to zero.

[sendbaht]

Well, I think everything will be fine...but if not then I would be forced to move to some cool college town in the USA...

[amse]

To the Thai's we retired folks are like all-year-round tourist, we spend alot of cash here in Thailand, much more than the average Thai can afford. So I see the government wanting as many of us xpats to stay in Thailand. No the rules will not get tougher one bit.

[sambum]

How is a som tam vendor and a motorcycle taxi driver gonna give you a receipt?

Huh? Retirement? Rules?

[khunPer]

»Does anyone share the same concerns about 'retirement visas' as I?«

I don’t think they will change the requirements, presumably the retirement extension brings a lot of fund into the country, however I do think that the financial requirements, the 800k bath in bank deposit or 65k a month, will change over time. I’ve read at this forum that last time they doubled the requirements from 400k to 800k some 10 years or more ago, so I do believe we sometime in the future will see a this figure raised; how much then is a good question? Will it be some 25 percent more or will it take another 10 year and then double up to mere some 1½ million baht?

Us staying here on retirement extension better begin to save up…

[DoctorB]

I think people really do need to be aware that in Thailand things can change overnight.
As Westerners we tend to be used to a system where things are ruled by laws and regulations that can only be changed with glacial speed. But that does not seem to be true here; a new set of faces, a new set of rules.

This also applies to the way Thais run their business overseas. A friend recently told me he had been refused a non-immigrant "O", single entry, in London because he was not in receipt of the state pension, although he is in his sixties, has a good company pension, visits once a year over Christmas for 60-90 days and has never had an overstay. He always got the non-imm.in the past. But that's how it is. The changes to the way visas are issued in the UK have changed significantly in the last year; eg no more postal applications to consulates (only the embassy) etc.

See the way the beach vendors and Sukhumvit road side vendors have been given the heave-ho after years of conducting their businesses (please let's not get side tracked into whether this is the best thing that ever happened to Thailand, or not, yet again). I simply offer it as an example of how something that has always been there, for years and years, can disappear overnight, if the right person wills it. All it took on Sukhumvit was a big-wig from the BMA and a few soldiers; then no more daytime shirt stalls, no more late-night beer bars. As simple as that.

The current procedures relating to any aspect of immigration (or life in general in this country) are no different; a new day, a new set of rules. But for retirees - well in the long-term we are all dead.

[Asiantravel]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

good grief

I wouldn't be worrying about what can happen 20 years in the future regarding retirement visas

[NativeSon360]

I think people really do need to be aware that in Thailand things can change overnight.

As Westerners we tend to be used to a system where things are ruled by laws and regulations that can only be changed with glacial speed. But that does not seem to be true here; a new set of faces, a new set of rules.

This also applies to the way Thais run their business overseas. A friend recently told me he had been refused a non-immigrant "O", single entry, in London because he was not in receipt of the state pension, although he is in his sixties, has a good company pension, visits once a year over Christmas for 60-90 days and has never had an overstay. He always got the non-imm.in the past. But that's how it is. The changes to the way visas are issued in the UK have changed significantly in the last year; eg no more postal applications to consulates (only the embassy) etc.

See the way the beach vendors and Sukhumvit road side vendors have been given the heave-ho after years of conducting their businesses (please let's not get side tracked into whether this is the best thing that ever happened to Thailand, or not, yet again). I simply offer it as an example of how something that has always been there, for years and years, can disappear overnight, if the right person wills it. All it took on Sukhumvit was a big-wig from the BMA and a few soldiers; then no more daytime shirt stalls, no more late-night beer bars. As simple as that.

The current procedures relating to any aspect of immigration (or life in general in this country) are no different; a new day, a new set of rules. But for retirees - well in the long-term we are all dead.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Don't worry about the retirement visa. The tourist exemption option is now back on the table.

[NativeSon360]

At 90 years old...you are more likely to be worried about your next BM...than rules for retirement...

[bitcoinman]

Funny, they want kick people out of thailand, then they will cry why nobody want to come here then they will start to give free visa to attract people.

We will have a laugh when all these new condo will be empty, Thai complaining because Russians stoped to pay tax on condo where they can not live in.

Thailand has 2 ways to go, let people live in peace or put the shitt and thailand will become like Afghanistan.

I heard Birma is very good, much better than Thailand. You can get a nice condo and everybody is welcome.

Edited August 24, 2014 by bitcoinman

[MillionairePlayboy]

It would look very bad for Thailand internationally to start repatriating retirees en-masse. So I would assume grandfathering for any new tighter rules or requirements that are enacted.

If Thailand did decide it wanted to reduce the number of retirees they would likely start stricter enforcement of existing rules, or start repatriations based on criminal activity that was previously overlooked (P4P maybe)

Western nations would complain loudly about Thailand removing law-abiding retirees, but sending home elderly sex-pats - no-one could object to that.

[Likener1]

This topic really seems to me to be about who is afraid of being priced out of their retirement in Thailand.

Bite, or gum on your nails if what may lurk around every corner frightens you.

If they change things or not there is nothing you can do about it - so if or when something happens address it then.

No plan B ?, well look in the mirror for that blame apportionment, not the whims, policies or desires of a foreign country that you have chosen to retire in.

Only do that in a country which you have a vote ........... before anyone points out the current lack of voting opportunity for Thais, that is nothing to do with this subject.

I am neither empathising nor gloating over anyone's situation personal situation merely pointing out the truth, as I see it.

[JLCrab]

It would look very bad for Thailand internationally to start repatriating retirees en-masse. So I would assume grandfathering for any new tighter rules or requirements that are enacted.

If Thailand did decide it wanted to reduce the number of retirees they would likely start stricter enforcement of existing rules, or start repatriations based on criminal activity that was previously overlooked (P4P maybe)

Western nations would complain loudly about Thailand removing law-abiding retirees, but sending home elderly sex-pats - no-one could object to that.

Couldn't the elderly sex-pats just go to Cuba?

[Crossy]

Posts attacking another member have been removed.

Any more and holidays will follow.

[NativeSon360]

Funny, they want kick people out of thailand, then they will cry why nobody want to come here then they will start to give free visa to attract people.

We will have a laugh when all these new condo will be empty, Thai complaining because Russians stoped to pay tax on condo where they can not live in.

Thailand has 2 ways to go, let people live in peace or put the shitt and thailand will become like Afghanistan.

I heard Birma is very good, much better than Thailand. You can get a nice condo and everybody is welcome.

Vacillation seems to be the cultural norm, for all of Asia. A quite disturbing recognition of a cultural "character" trait, for sure. Despite that fact, Thais have been doing the business of life, looooong before either the Greeks, or Romans appeared on the global scene. Only those Asian governments that strictly utilize the Parliamentary system ( i,e,.Singapore), seem to have placed a strong set of constitutional reins on that penchant, for a style of behavior.

Edited August 24, 2014 by NativeSon360

[neverdie]

I am not concerned but I do see some possible situations that could be a concern. Unlike in our own countries where there are people or NPOs who can assist you here we tend to relay on our wife's or girlfriends who may or may not be the best suited to address our problems.

Example: health related issues that keep you from going to immigration for your extensions. Will you be on overstay and thrown out of country or will they understand and say not a problem?

How about Alzheimer's and you lack the ability to keep your affairs in order, will they deport you if you are unable to sign you name or even remember who you are ?

The 800,000 rule for retirement has been in place for a long time, when will they increase the requirement? Will you be able to cover the required increase?

Perhaps always best to have a plan B just in case, even if you are 80 and feeling good.

After you have put all your eggs in one basket if something happened it would be difficult when you are old and not healthy to try to put everything back in order and start new again back in your home country.

I've often pondered this Alzheimers/Parkinson dilemma as I age.

I mean what will happen to me?

Will I knock my beer over...or forget to pay for it?

Probably both muddy.....however what concerns me is you already cock ur leg on the bar stool when it's time to pee....what on earth will u be doing in another 10 years time.

milking badgers is always possible

It is possible that in 10 years time you will need a special visa and WP to milk badgers, but only time will tell. ?

[hansnl]

If there is someone able to explain to the Thai Government how much money those retirees pump into the country, there would be a chance nothing would change.

A little arithmatic.

An average retiree, married and single lumped together, brings in 50,000 baht a month, or 600,000 per year.

I take the example of Dutch expats living in Thailand, there are 9000 or so.

Bringing in 5,400,000,000 baht every year, or around €135,000,000

And I do not include the investment done by this group in houses, cars, motorbikes, and so on.

Just imagine there would be 900,000 retirees in Thailand, guess there are more.

540,000,000,000 baht............

Any counttry would like that.

[neverdie]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. I'm certainly not in a panic nor going to be, but to me it seems this current government is not to "farang friendly". Everybody's circumstances are different. I've never had 800,000 baht in a bank here and couldn't if i wanted to. If the USD doesn't drop anymore (not likely) my pensions are well above what is required for proof of income, still with schooling, house mortgage, truck payments etc. finances are tight, and no my wife doesn't not spend extravantly, if anything a "cheap Charlene". A lot of retires are much closer to the requirement, it wouldn't take much to put them in a "doesn't qualify" range. I have no medical here and couldn't afford it if I could even get it, 69 yrs. old. My health is, knock on wood, good, I'm still good to go in a lot of "circumstances". That will change. I have great insurance (free) through my work retirement and Medicare plus the VA back in the states, none of that good here except for my VA disabilities. High cost insurance could sink me. Cost of living here has tripled since I first came back to SE Asia, the USD has sunk and probably isn't anywhere near hitting bottom yet. Purchase power has gone down hill. Many factors to consider, one is I have Thai family here and no desire to go anywhere else, except for "holiday". Anybody that thinks that the rules or the law can't be changed by the government at a whim is living in la-la land.

Well said Sarge, especially the last sentence.

[IMA_FARANG]

And what will you do if you are riding the BTS and the train your on derails and your car goes plunging of the track from 15 meters high?

Or if the condo building you just bought collapses and you fall 20 floors into a pile of rubble.

If it happens, it just happens, that's all.

[larsjohnsson]

I have to say that the lack of forward-planning by many posters, bearing in mind the 'fragility' of the Thai political system, fragility of something that we cannot mention, and 'time-limits' (ie work permit, tax paid) on being able to apply for PR or citizenship, astounds me.

Are you sure you're not all going local? ==> think for today and don't plan for tomorrow?

But you don't know how much pension, income, savings and money the people here have. So I can't understand your comments. I have much more than 65k in pension-income a month. I only have 200-300k on my account here. But can of course transfer more if I need that. I also own own a condo in my home country that would easily give me 7-8 million baht if I like to sell it. But if Thailand like to have that kind of money I would prefer to stay in another country instead.

Why worry about 20 years ahead. Most of the people that are retired and write here will be over 80 years then. And if you live that long your health problems will have a much much bigger impact than visa requirements, if you can stay here on not