Holocaust survivors condemn Israel's Gaza 'genocide'

[Jingthing]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

I'm I arguing with children?

That's deep.

[sirineou]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

Wow, the more I read toxic "opinions" denigrating and insulting the very existence of the great Jewish nation of Israel the prouder I am of the brave and strong Zionist Jewish pioneers who made its creation possible.

I'm I arguing with children?

That's deep.

apparently I am. Sorry my mistake

[Jingthing]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

One simple question - why does the USA support the terrorists activities of Israel?

The only reason Israel is supported by the USA is because Israel is considered as an unofficial state of America, it serves the western nations as a base in the middle east, for military purposes and as a means to help the west protect it`s supply of oil from the fanatics and dictatorships of the middle eastern oil producing countries. The Israelis are no more than cannon fodder in some circumstances and the west is paying financially towards the existence of Israel to ensure a foothold in the Middle East and that’s all there is to this.

The American government is not owned and run by Zionist extremists as some suggest with their crackpot conspiracy theories, and does not support Israel because it loves the Jews and the majority of Jews worldwide are not or never want to be associated with Israel in real terms, except perhaps in their prayer books. Anyone who believes otherwise is suffering from a misapprehension.

In reality no one gives a toss about the Arabs or their welfare, this is purely about military domination of the region and the insurance that the western nations will continue to have their supply of OIL and that the prices set and complete terms and conditions of the imports of oil will not be determined by the Arab states. And this is why the west will continue to support Israel and try to shut up anyone or organisations that try to throw spanners into this convenient arrangement. It is that simple.

Responding to one of your points, I think you are bit off about the feelings of global Jews towards Israel. Surveys have always shown the vast majority of global Jews DO identify with Israel in the sense of supporting her right to exist and defend herself. No, that does not mean agreeing with every Israeli government policy of course, and it does not mean that most Jews now living outside Israel will ever wish to move there but the feeling towards Israel is MORE than a mention in a prayer book. Of course this varies by nation. For example in Ecuador most Jews there have indeed migrated to Israel. Most American Jews of course won't do that.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

talking louder does not constitute a valid argument Oh holder of the truth

PS: I am surprised the moderator is allowing this exchange to continue, I fully expect you to come back with

"I'm rubber you're glue, your words bounce off me and stick to you"

And then brake in to song about the virtues od Israel

Edited August 24, 2014 by sirineou

[Jingthing]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

talking louder does not constitute a valid argument Oh holder of the truth

If you're saying most Jews who support Israel's right to exist are wrong, I can't say that is surprising. Israel demonization has become quite the fashion. But not among Jews. What's weird to me (and predictable) is that most every topic about Israel current events brings out the toxic Israel demonization themes -- that Israel shouldn't even exist.

Basically, it's off topic.

Current events in Japan. Japan shouldn't exist! Huh?

Face facts, dude.

Israel DOES exist.

We get it.

You object to that.

You presented it before as some kind of global Jewish conspiracy to make that happen.

Well ...

Too bad. Too late.

Now back to CURRENT EVENTS.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

talking louder does not constitute a valid argument Oh holder of the truth

If you're saying most Jews who support Israel's right to exist are wrong, I can't say that is surprising. Israel demonization has become quite the fashion. But not among Jews. What's weird to me (and predictable) is that most every topic about Israel current events brings out the toxic Israel demonization themes -- that Israel shouldn't even exist.

Basically, it's off topic.

Current events in Japan. Japan shouldn't exist! Huh?

Face facts, dude.

Israel DOES exist.

We get it.

You object to that.

You presented it before as some kind of global Jewish conspiracy to make that happen.

Well ...

Too bad. Too late.

Now back to CURRENT EVENTS.

OK OK settle down. You'll hurt your self.

I take it all back. you are right , you win.

Edited August 24, 2014 by sirineou

[Beetlejuice]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

This is debatable.

There were many Jews that tried to fight for their rights under the German Nazi occupied countries during WW2, but for them it was a hopeless case, they were viewed and classified as aliens, enemies of the State which lead up to what came to be known as, the final solution to the Jewish problem. So in their case, considering that the Jews were either murdered or cast out from their own countries and made stateless, they were well justified in creating a homeland of their own and I am sure not many would disagree with that unless they agree and sympathise with the views of the extreme right and the Nazi policies that Jews have no place anywhere in the world.

But on the other hand in today’s modern societies Jews are no longer persecuted to a point where their citizenships are revoked or put to death on mass and the big question is, is it justifiable to automatically give citizenships to those immigrating to Israel solely on laying claims to be a Jewish? And on that note I completely understand where you’re coming from and see your point.

This is a complicated issue, because Israel the so-called promised land was given over to the Jews following hundreds of years of persecution and never being fully accepted in their own countries, but in modern times the situation has changed and now all those claiming to be Jews who were not born there still have the same rights to make claim to Israel as their homeland as did their predecessors.

It is an extremely complicated issue and to be frank I don`t have any quick logical answers to the Israeli situation, other than stop all future immigration to Israel that of course would not be logical because everyone should have the freedom to immigrate or live in any countries of their choice.

So if you were a politician, how would you solve it?

[Johpa]

The Jews didn't START this current round of butchery,

Having said that, I will also say that Benny the YAHOO and his Storm Troopers have now gone too far.

Sure, let them destroy the tunnels, let them destroy the Hamas leadership but we have had enough of the Jews behaving like Nazis.

I suggest that you read up on the Nazi response to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and compare the actions of the Nazis to actions of the Israelis. I am in agreement that Netanyahu has gone too far, but you have gone much further beyond the pale (historical double entendre intended) by comparing the two forces. Israel is not behaving like Nazis and there is no genocide happening.

[sirineou]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

This is debatable.

There were many Jews that tried to fight for their rights under the German Nazi occupied countries during WW2, but for them it was a hopeless case, they were viewed and classified as aliens, enemies of the State which lead up to what came to be known as, the final solution to the Jewish problem. So in their case, considering that the Jews were either murdered or cast out from their own countries and made stateless, they were well justified in creating a homeland of their own and I am sure not many would disagree with that unless they agree and sympathise with the views of the extreme right and the Nazi policies that Jews have no place anywhere in the world.

But on the other hand in today’s modern societies Jews are no longer persecuted to a point where their citizenships are revoked or put to death on mass and the big question is, is it justifiable to automatically give citizenships to those immigrating to Israel solely on laying claims to be a Jewish? And on that note I completely understand where you’re coming from and see your point.

This is a complicated issue, because Israel the so-called promised land was given over to the Jews following hundreds of years of persecution and never being fully accepted in their own countries, but in modern times the situation has changed and now all those claiming to be Jews who were not born there still have the same rights to make claim to Israel as their homeland as did their predecessors.

It is an extremely complicated issue and to be frank I don`t have any quick logical answers to the Israeli situation, other than stop all future immigration to Israel that of course would not be logical because everyone should have the freedom to immigrate or live in any countries of their choice.

So if you were a politician, how would you solve it?

Now you see, this is a legitimate argument,whether it agrees with me or disagrees is irrelevant, it only needs to be intellectually honest.

You are absolutely right, it is a complicated issue, and any simple solutions would be wrong, so I will not give you one.

The only viable solution would be one that is equitable and just to both parties.

The Jews suffered in the hands of the Nazis, . But the Nazis were defeated.

They did not suffer at the hands of the Palestinians. So why punish the Palestinians, why not give them a part of Germany to make their home land?after all it was the Germans that committed the Holocaust .

Of course I am being flippant, the Germans are powerful and the Palestinians powerless.

So whose land do you give away, the Land of the powerful, or the land of the powerless?

As far as a solution to the problem is concerned. Not only is there a solution but most of the world agrees agrees to it, except the US and Israel. A two state settlement on the international boarder pre "67 boarder perhaps with mutually agreed modifications.

But that will not happen because there is a third alternative, and that's called attrition. Wait long enough, produce an indigenous Israeli population with no place to go, and wear down the Palestinians to the point that they are nothing but a shadow.

IMO that's the policy now, and as long as they are allowed to pursue it, they will. It is up to the international community and to people with a conscience to to speak up and be counted.

[Ulysses G.]

But we do believe that Palestine has a right to a homeland and it should be, at the very least, the lands they owned after the 1947 giveaway by GB and The UN.

They turned that deal down. They have never "owned" the land that they were offered and refused.

Turned what land down? A small portion of what was taken. If someone stole $1,000,000 from you and offered to give back $100,000 to let bygones be bygone, would you accept it. Britain and The UN gave Israel over half of the palestinians land and Isreal has continued to take more and more ever since. I will state it one more time. Israel needs to forced to move back into their original allotted land. Your views are all biased towards Israel and just put aside what is right and what is wrong. I'm surprised you're not living in a Kibbutz because I think you would feel right at home.

Wow, are you ever mistaken. Before the so-called "Palestinians" were given that land after WWII, there never was a country called Palestine and there never was a people called Palestinians. Today's "Palestinians" were the Philistines who were nomadic wanderers who no one wanted. It's not hard to see why.

There was a large area called Palestine which encompassed parts of many countries, but never such a country.

The "Palestinians" hijacked that name for themselves and for where they live in the 1980's!!!!

Any land which Israel has which might be claimed by the "Palestinians" was taken as spoils of war when Israel was attacked. That's what you get when you attack someone and lose. Israel isn't about the let the terrorist Philistines back in there for national security reasons.

The Philistines have been attacking Israel ever since they moved in. That's what terrorists do.

Edit. I forgot to mention that the Philistines were run off by the Romans about 2,000 years ago and never had a homeland from that time until just after WWII. They were outcasts.

No one "gave" the Jews Palestinian land, because the local Arabs owned very little of it and the Jews bought a fair amount from the actual owners in Beirut and Damascus.

Most of the "Palestinians" were from surrounding Arab countries and showed up about the same time as the Jewish immigrants did, because Jews were making the economy of the area grow dramatically. If these generic Arabs had not started attacking the Jews, they would very possibly all be living in one big happy country right now.

[nidieunimaitre]

Strange isn't it?

In all western countries there is a wave of anti muslim feelings (rightly or wrongly is not the point).

And yet, in the Israel - Palestine conflict, sympathies go rather to the Palestinians.

Maybe the Israeli leaders should ask themselves: WHY?

[Ulysses G.]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

[sirineou]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Yes!! I am sure that's what it is

[Ulysses G.]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Yes!! I am sure that's what it is

Indeed. A good article on:

Critical Thinking: Can You Trust Everything You Read?

Biased Reporting: Reporters of news stories should not include their own opinions in the articles. If two sides have conflicting points of view, the reporters should record both. If one side is giving false information, and the reporter is able to determine it is false, he or she should say so.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_context=22&x_article=165

1) Current Events’ characterization of “hotly debated issues” identified as “roadblocks to a final peace agreement” is highly biased. The issues noted are: the status of Jerusalem, full Palestinian nationhood, and settlements. All of these are issues which the Palestinians have placed on the agenda; entirely ignored are the issues that Israel considers key “roadblocks to a final peace agreement,” including the many Palestinian violations of the peace accords such as terrorism, anti-Semitic incitement (hateful statements which encourage violence), the widespread presence and use of illegal weapons, and a hugely oversized Palestinian “police” force.

[nidieunimaitre]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Since you came up with that explaination, I am sure you can also tell us why the media are biased against Israel, and in favour of Muslims?

[nidieunimaitre]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Yes!! I am sure that's what it is

Indeed. A good article on:

Critical Thinking: Can You Trust Everything You Read?

Biased Reporting: Reporters of news stories should not include their own opinions in the articles. If two sides have conflicting points of view, the reporters should record both. If one side is giving false information, and the reporter is able to determine it is false, he or she should say so.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_print=1&x_context=22&x_article=165

1) Current Events’ characterization of “hotly debated issues” identified as “roadblocks to a final peace agreement” is highly biased. The issues noted are: the status of Jerusalem, full Palestinian nationhood, and settlements. All of these are issues which the Palestinians have placed on the agenda; entirely ignored are the issues that Israel considers key “roadblocks to a final peace agreement,” including the many Palestinian violations of the peace accords such as terrorism, anti-Semitic incitement (hateful statements which encourage violence), the widespread presence and use of illegal weapons, and a hugely oversized Palestinian “police” force.

Before, we had a poster that critisized Elie Wiesel, referring to a revisionist website. Fortunately the post was deleted.

Now we have you advocate critical thinking by referring to a political pamphlet.

[Beetlejuice]

This has being Israels long game all along. Move the goal post long enough, and create an indigenous Israeli.

Then have people like you defend the indigenous Israelis right to be there.

Every one who knows anything about this situation knows that.

I see many Israelis interviewed on TV , most have New York, German, Russian etc accents. I am sure they did not get these accents in Israel. If they did not want their children endangered, they should not have gone and have their children there. If they were persecuted where they were , they should have stayed there and fought for their rights, as many minorities have done.

Instead of going some place an prosecuting the people there them selves.

Two wrongs dont make a right

The only ridiculous thing here is your position in this mater.

This is debatable.

There were many Jews that tried to fight for their rights under the German Nazi occupied countries during WW2, but for them it was a hopeless case, they were viewed and classified as aliens, enemies of the State which lead up to what came to be known as, the final solution to the Jewish problem. So in their case, considering that the Jews were either murdered or cast out from their own countries and made stateless, they were well justified in creating a homeland of their own and I am sure not many would disagree with that unless they agree and sympathise with the views of the extreme right and the Nazi policies that Jews have no place anywhere in the world.

But on the other hand in today’s modern societies Jews are no longer persecuted to a point where their citizenships are revoked or put to death on mass and the big question is, is it justifiable to automatically give citizenships to those immigrating to Israel solely on laying claims to be a Jewish? And on that note I completely understand where you’re coming from and see your point.

This is a complicated issue, because Israel the so-called promised land was given over to the Jews following hundreds of years of persecution and never being fully accepted in their own countries, but in modern times the situation has changed and now all those claiming to be Jews who were not born there still have the same rights to make claim to Israel as their homeland as did their predecessors.

It is an extremely complicated issue and to be frank I don`t have any quick logical answers to the Israeli situation, other than stop all future immigration to Israel that of course would not be logical because everyone should have the freedom to immigrate or live in any countries of their choice.

So if you were a politician, how would you solve it?

Now you see, this is a legitimate argument,whether it agrees with me or disagrees is irrelevant, it only needs to be intellectually honest.

You are absolutely right, it is a complicated issue, and any simple solutions would be wrong, so I will not give you one.

The only viable solution would be one that is equitable and just to both parties.

The Jews suffered in the hands of the Nazis, . But the Nazis were defeated.

They did not suffer at the hands of the Palestinians. So why punish the Palestinians, why not give them a part of Germany to make their home land?after all it was the Germans that committed the Holocaust .

Of course I am being flippant, the Germans are powerful and the Palestinians powerless.

So whose land do you give away, the Land of the powerful, or the land of the powerless?

As far as a solution to the problem is concerned. Not only is there a solution but most of the world agrees agrees to it, except the US and Israel. A two state settlement on the international boarder pre "67 boarder perhaps with mutually agreed modifications.

But that will not happen because there is a third alternative, and that's called attrition. Wait long enough, produce an indigenous Israeli population with no place to go, and wear down the Palestinians to the point that they are nothing but a shadow.

IMO that's the policy now, and as long as they are allowed to pursue it, they will. It is up to the international community and to people with a conscience to to speak up and be counted.

Yes, I like your explanation and there is a lot of logic in what you say.

You are right, the Jews did suffer at the hands of the Nazis and the Nazis were defeated. Also taking into consideration that the Gypsies and other minorities also suffered under the Nazis, the Jehovah's Witnesses for example, but none of them were given their own homeland. The Huguenots of France during the 16th century were also persecuted and most had to flee France and settle in other countries, especially central Europe and England. I have Huguenot ancesters. But again none of them later returned to France demanding part of France as state of their own, they all eventually intergraded into the countries they settled and became a part of mainstream society.

Another point is that pre WW2 a third of Poland`s population were Jewish, most had been there for thousands of years until the Nazis wiped them out. So perhaps the Jews should have been given a part of Eastern Europe has their homeland, but somehow I could never envisage any Eastern European countries agreeing to that, so it`s not that simple or a cut and dry solution. On the other hand and the easiest solution would have been that all the Jews of Europe could have just re-settled back in their own countries after WW2 and like the Huguenots intergraded into the mainstream societies of their birth countries.

Of course the principles of who has rights over territory is not a unique to the Jews. We could also argue the case for the Catholics of Ireland, which is nearer to home for me and can better relate to. For example should the Catholics be given complete rule over Ireland considering that the Protestants were originally the intruders, people that did not originate from Ireland, are of a different culture and some may argue even a different race. My father`s family were mostly Irish Americans and many were pro IRA. The IRA were and still are today considered as terrorists, yet in fact could be described as only fighting to preserve their culture and homeland. So whether or not the IRA are terrorists or the bad guys or the good guys fighting for justice against part of their country being under foreign rule is all a matter or opinion. My point being that it is difficult to judge what are the rights and wrongs in these situations.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Ulysses G.]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Since you came up with that explaination, I am sure you can also tell us why the media are biased against Israel, and in favour of Muslims?

The same reason that they are biased against the policeman in Ferguson and have tried to portray Michael Brown as an "innocent victim". Most of the media are left-wingers and - IMO - often have very misplaced sympathies.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

On the other hand and the easiest solution would have been that all the Jews of Europe could have just re-settled back in their own countries after WW2 and like the Huguenots intergraded into the mainstream societies of their birth countries.

A lot of them tried to return to their homes after the war and were murdered. They did not have much choice about leaving.

[NeverSure]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Strange isn't it?

In all western countries there is a wave of anti muslim feelings (rightly or wrongly is not the point).

And yet, in the Israel - Palestine conflict, sympathies go rather to the Palestinians.

Maybe the Israeli leaders should ask themselves: WHY?

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage? alt=whistling.gif>

Since you came up with that explaination, I am sure you can also tell us why the media are biased against Israel, and in favour of Muslims?

Of course there is a reason why Jews have been hated, made into slaves, butchered, left stateless, butchered by Hitler and so on for more than 2,000 years. It is also no wonder that they have become a people who will now defend themselves and their country now that they have one.

But that's not the topic here.

[Ulysses G.]

Trying to insinuate that the Jews deserve the bigotry against them is always on topic for some people.

[Thorgal]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

Israel had already occupation issues far before Hamas came to power.

It's a war of occupation.

Not a war for tunnels, RPG's, rockets, 3 Israeli kids,etc....

[nidieunimaitre]

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage?

Since you came up with that explaination, I am sure you can also tell us why the media are biased against Israel, and in favour of Muslims?

The same reason that they are biased against the policeman in Ferguson and have tried to portray Michael Brown as an "innocent victim". Most of the media are left-wingers and - IMO - often have very misplaced sympathies.

That explains your comments.

The media are a left wing conspiracy.

Pointless to discus anything with you.

PS. You do know that Orwell was a Trotsky sympathiser, don't you?

[nidieunimaitre]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Strange isn't it?

In all western countries there is a wave of anti muslim feelings (rightly or wrongly is not the point).

And yet, in the Israel - Palestine conflict, sympathies go rather to the Palestinians.

Maybe the Israeli leaders should ask themselves: WHY?

Could it have something to do with biased media coverage? alt=whistling.gif>

Since you came up with that explaination, I am sure you can also tell us why the media are biased against Israel, and in favour of Muslims?

Of course there is a reason why Jews have been hated, made into slaves, butchered, left stateless, butchered by Hitler and so on for more than 2,000 years. It is also no wonder that they have become a people who will now defend themselves and their country now that they have one.

But that's not the topic here.

You quote me twice in 1 post, yet I do not see the relation between your comment and my 2 quoted posts.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Hope this will create some changes in Israel. Not surprisingly came from the ones who experienced the effects of genocide on their own, which has frequently the effect of not wanting anybody else to endure the same thing. Much different from our zionist friends who sit the whole day in front of their computer and frantically defend deliberate school bombing and child killing as self defense. Maybe should go out there to experience real life.

[Beetlejuice]

On the other hand and the easiest solution would have been that all the Jews of Europe could have just re-settled back in their own countries after WW2 and like the Huguenots intergraded into the mainstream societies of their birth countries.

A lot of them tried to return to their homes after the war and were murdered. They did not have much choice about leaving.

Totally agree, can’t argue with that.

My mother’s family are mostly English Jews and I know before WW2 and after there was rampant anti Semitism in Europe. For example even after WW2 many occupations in Europe were off limits to Jews, such as the merchant navy, the police force including certain clubs and even living in certain areas. My grandfather once told me that to apply for council accommodation during the 1930s in London Jews had to change their surnames and state on the forms that they were C of E, otherwise they were placed right at the bottom of the housing lists.

But justice and receiving fair treatment has to be fought for. The gays for example, they too were persecuted under the Nazi regime and even during the 1960s being gay was a criminal and custodial offence. But over the years they have fought for their rights and won. Yes, there are still obvious extreme prejudices against them, but they manage to live with it and at least today the law is on their side, but still not in all countries, including Russia.

The Holocaust that also involved 5 million non-Jews that seem to get conveniently forgotten, is the most heinous crime ever committed against humanity throughout I would say the whole of human history, but this cannot be held as an excuse to account for peoples troubles for the whole of eternity. Most of the perpetrators of the Holocaust are gone, it is now time to bury the hatchet, lay the Holocaust to rest, never forgotten and the perpetrators never forgiven, but all placed in perspective in memorial and no longer any grudges being held, because for people that bear grudges will never be at peace, either among their selves or with their neighbors.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Ulysses G.]

The media are a left wing conspiracy.

No "conspiracy". It is no secret that the media lean to the left.

No ones cares about your obsession with Trotsky. You don't need to try to interject his name into every post.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Jewish Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend herself against aggressive genocidal forces like Hamas. No childish ad hominem attacks will ever change that truth. As far as the Jewish "anti-Zionists" referred to in the OP, they do not represent the vast majority of global Jews and they NEVER WILL.

Sure, most of us are not disagreeing with this. However you need to aknowledge as well that Israel has to respect international treaties and frameworks. Now deliberately bombing markets and from the UN as "off-limit" declared schools is against international rights. How can a human being continue to defend these awful acts of Israel? Don't come up with the home made bombs alledgly shot by the Hamas, they hardly do any damage and especially there are of so bad quality you cannot shoot an elephant from 50 meters with them. But Israel's bombs are very accurate. They want to bomb a school, a market and do it. These actions unfortunately place them in the same category as other unthinkable atrocities as done by the Khmer Rouge, many others, including Nazi Deutschland.

[Ulysses G.]

So just "ignore" thousand of rockets. Don't be ignorant. No country on earth would do it and there is no reason why Israel should either.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Ulysses G.