Immigration clarifies new regulations for foreigners in Chiang Mai

[marios]

Well then in that case being foreigners yes its 800 000 per passport!

as immigration rules !

Thanks Dagobert, disheartening news, but that's life. I will try my luck with ED visa.I can follow the course and graduate, no doubt about that. My wife??? Neh.. I am not so sure.

thanks again

[JSixpack]

so now we are back on a life ban if you everstay by 10 years!!!

about turn yet again. No wonder people are confused.

Why do they not let one person do all the announcements and then let all the regional officers follow?

Don't overstay; then the point's moot.

[balo]

Immigration clarifies new regulations for foreigners in Chiang Mai

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

So how do we understand this message ?

I do online work , I receive my money in Europe. This means we can work online with any visa from Thailand.

"Currently there is no visa for these kind of people."

So is this only coming from Chiang Mai immigration or can anyone confirm this is the national view from immigration ?

[TPI]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

Agreed! The longer one stays here the more obvious it becomes, the entire system is designed to keep the masses exactly where they are! There is no "glass ceiling", there is no ceiling at all, local toilers never reach the top of the tree and when AEC comes in the locals are going to be worse off!

[freedom4life]

I thought a 30 day VOA could now be exstened 30 days. He says only 7 still.

Yes, can I stay another 30 days, since I am married to a Thai? If not, what kind of change is that, seven days?

[tookwan cottage]

From the article Post #1:

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

So I guess the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs will have to modify or amend its Tourist Visa Application Form where it states and then you declare in by signature:

You declare that the purpose of your visit to Thailand is for pleasure only and that in no case shall you engage yourself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

I recommend for anyone interested in the online work debate to solely follow JLCrab from now on, as his dedication to the issue is on a level beyond human comprehension. I am unsure if the topic affects him/her, but ever since it was raised, the incredibly deep immersion in all matters relevant to the subject by this TV member has been breathtaking!

Edited August 25, 2014 by tookwan cottage

[max72]

now all they have to do is compel all the other immigration offices (and officers) to fairly apply the same rules, and 90% of the complaints will go away. note that I said 'compel'.

Which rules ? This is a mess.

For teachers , missionaries, volunteers maybe it is clearer, but for tourists who come back often or stay little bit longer than usual it's still unclear.

First they said the visa extempt stamp would now be extended for 30 days, now he said 7 again.

Than, no mention on how long one could enter with tourists visas issued in his homecountry o in neighbour countries.

Long term ...what this suppose to mean ? 30,60,90,180 days ? How long ?

Several guys were rejected WITH VALID TOURIST visas and now this guy says go and get a tourist visa in a neighbour country.

Which "rule" we apply here ? 180 days every 1 year, 180 every 2 years, 90 every 180 days ? There are several versions.

This "explanation" doesn t clarify absolutely anything, instead it makes a bigger mess . There are no rules and everything is always upon the mood on an inmigration officier.

If he had a good night sleep you are in, if he had a bad night, you can have troubles.

Edited August 25, 2014 by max72

[max72]

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

Finaly all the stupid TV members who called all the online workers illegals get their message, it is not and it never was illegal to work in thailand for a company based outside Thailand, and for sure their cant be a Visa for it, or you would get work permit for Thailand

You are right.

If a guy is an online trader which buys and sells in the NYSE but he likes to spend time in Thailand, what does heever suppose to do if he wants to be 100% legal ?

There are no work permits for people who are not working in Thailand, so tell me , are these people illegal since the moment the enter Thailand ?

Ridicolous, isn t it ?

I think it is fair that someone finally clarify that point.

I have never considered this like working anyway, in my case i am not a daily trader, just a swing trader, from time to time i open my workstation and i buy or sell few stocks to rebalance my portfolio.

[JLCrab]

From the article Post #1:

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

So I guess the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs will have to modify or amend its Tourist Visa Application Form where it states and then you declare in by signature:

You declare that the purpose of your visit to Thailand is for pleasure only and that in no case shall you engage yourself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

I recommend for anyone interested in the online work debate to solely follow JLCrab from now on, as his dedication to the issue is on a level beyond human comprehension. I am unsure if the topic affects him/her, but ever since it was raised, the incredibly deep immersion in all matters relevant to the subject by this TV member has been breathtaking!

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be welcomed in your wonderful city.

[Namplik]

He did confirm that those entering Thailand on a 30 day visa exempt entry can only extend for 7 days in Thailand; a tourist visa can extend for 30 days.

Its the second time Chiang Mai Immigrations say this about the visa exemption. What to believe??

[connda]

I appreciate the willingness of CM Immigration to meet and clarify regulations with interested stakeholders. The openness of dialog is a step in the right direction.

[connda]

Much of this is relevant to Chiang Mai, but you can read the underlying police orders (both original Thai and English translations) applicable nationally here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749918-thai-immigration-issues-new-police-order-3272557-effective-august-29-2014/

So you think the guy is incorrect or Chiang Mai aren't going to subscribe to this?

Sorry for any misunderstanding. What the Chiang Mai chief said appears (as far as the news report goes) to be consistent with the police orders. I meant that the colonel also spoke to some matters relevant only to Chiang Mai, such as the plan for a new building and added staff both of which are really being overcome by the influx of new tourists, and especailly, new retirees.

If anyone who is considering retiring here happens to read this, if you are of a nervous nature, then you might want to look elsewhere for paradise! It might not be so good here for your blood pressure!

Went for my 90 day reporting last week. 3 hour wait with 70 people ahead of me in the cue at 2:15pm on Friday. Absolutely the longest wait I've ever had in the 7 years I've lived here.

That many 90 day reports pretty much packed the building, not to mention all the other foreigner there for other business. I don't blame CM Immigration. The 90 day desk was processing about 30 people an hour or one person every two minutes. They were busting their butts. However, the head of Thailand Immigration (Bangkok) could help by funding the changes necessary to process the influx of foreigners and long-stay expats -- or even better -- do away with the archaic, inefficient, system of 90 day reporting, especially for those married, retired, or in business here in the LOS. Most individuals who settle here for the long term don't change addresses every three months.

The article indicated that 90 reporting by mail was an option -- from my understanding it is not an option in Chiang Mai unless something has changed recently.

[ozyjon]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

He can paint my ceilings.

[JDGRUEN]

It is not likely it would be done but at least two problems that come up all the time in these threads could be solved by a modification to the definition of what 'Other' can be in the Category 'O' visa. or allow 'Other' for Category 'B' Visas

- Allow a Category 'O' or 'B' visa (Work Permit Pending - WPP) - for those who can show documentation that a job has been secured and a standard WP permit has been applied for and is pending issuance - issued for 90 days. Done with documentation of course that employment has been secured.

- And over in the Thai Labor Dept. create a new provision for a temporary work permit (TWP) with streamlined issuance upon presenting the visa and other minimum documentation established for this purpose - issued for 90 days.

- A Visa issued for Work Permit Pending - WPP along with a Temporary Work Permit - TWP would allow the foreign alien to go to work for the designated employer,.

- Process would go like this... Foreign Alien applicant is in Thailand under some form of Visa - even Exemption - Tourist visa okay... the applicant accepts a work offer. Applicant take work contract to Thai Labor Dept. applies for standard Work Permit - WP. Applicant goes to Immigration office with Labor Dept. in hand - applies for change to Work Permit Pending Visa - WPP.... With WPP Visa, Applicant goes back to the Labor Dept, applies for and gets - same day - a Temporary Work Permit - TWP ... Applicant goes to work - Legally.

- Force all Thailand employers (including public schools) to file for a temporary work permit (TWP) and long term work permit for each and every new hire - under strong penalties for failure to do so.

- Allow a Category 'O' or 'B' - (External Worker Visa) for those people who wish to reside in Thailand and perform work for employers, clients or customers who are outside of Thailand with all transactions with employers, clients or customers being conducted outside Thailand and with all money transactions done outside of Thailand except for receipt of payments for services rendered to the visa holder ... This could include Investment Brokerage, Consultant Work of all natures, and the 'Digital Nomads' and others who fit the definition. This was exclude any import or export of goods in/out of Thailand. Forms and Documentation required.

- And over at the Labor Dept. create a new type of Work Permit - the External Worker Permit - EWP. with a duration ending with the corresponding External Worker Cat. O or B Visa.

I am sure my idea has flaws - aside from being a bit of daydreaming - and that those experienced in these matters could make it better... so do it... Note - I am not concerned with the crazy feedback coming... I have my motorcycle helmet on with visor down - so fling the crap...

Edited August 25, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[WilliamIV]

I thought a 30 day VOA could now be exstened 30 days. He says only 7 still.

I allso was under the immpression that the visa exempt was now extendable 30 days,

as of reports two weeks ago.

Now they say the visa exempt is extendable max 90 days "but" two paragraphs later say

that flyin-flyout workers on visa exempt can only extend a further 7 days ???

entering on a 30 day visa exempt ??? "thanks for the clarification"....................

VOA (Visa on Arrival)

and Visa Exempt

Are two very different things !

Bill

[WilliamIV]

They didn't mention anything about Retired Visa's Still wondering if they are going to continue to make us check in every 90 days? And if they will ever change the 1 year visa to a 5 year visa or more? We travel a lot and sometimes it is difficult to get back in 90 days to do you check in.

But you do NOT need to get back - in 90 days !!!

When you Leave - the 90 days STOP

and they start from 1 again when you return !!!

Bill

[dagobert]

I thought a 30 day VOA could now be exstened 30 days. He says only 7 still.

I allso was under the immpression that the visa exempt was now extendable 30 days,

as of reports two weeks ago.

Now they say the visa exempt is extendable max 90 days "but" two paragraphs later say

that flyin-flyout workers on visa exempt can only extend a further 7 days ???

entering on a 30 day visa exempt ??? "thanks for the clarification"....................

VOA (Visa on Arrival)

and Visa Exempt

Are two very different things !

Bill

I like how you blokes quote an a quoted post ...???

[Thailand]

Well then in that case being foreigners yes its 800 000 per passport!

as immigration rules !

I think you will find that is not correct.

The wife would be a dependent in the case of a retirement visa and in such case 800,000THB in the name of the husband only will suffice.

[duanebigsby]

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

Finaly all the stupid TV members who called all the online workers illegals get their message, it is not and it never was illegal to work in thailand for a company based outside Thailand, and for sure their cant be a Visa for it, or you would get work permit for Thailand

As it was said before this declaration, working online WAS defined as work and it was illegal to work without a permit.

NOW it has been clarified that it isn't working illegally..

Don't call the people who a month ago were pointing out that it was illegal as stupid.

Now digital Nomads can work here for the 90 days of their tourist visas and then move on to another country.

They can't stay forever legally, unless they get the right visa. There is still no work permit.

I'm not for nor against on line workers.

Edited August 25, 2014 by duanebigsby

[dagobert]

Well then in that case being foreigners yes its 800 000 per passport!

as immigration rules !

I think you will find that is not correct.

The wife would be a dependent in the case of a retirement visa and in such case 800,000THB in the name of the husband only will suffice.

Even if the wife is allso a foreigner ?

If in this situation " the husband then fell of his twig what then would the dependant

have to do to satisfy immo ?

[Thailand]

Duplicate

Edited August 25, 2014 by Thailand

[BV70]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but there's a lot of replies to go through....

He noted that online work for overseas companies that pay overseas is not prohibited but that the person will need to get a visa to stay longer, currently there is no new visa for these kinds of people.

So which visa are the above people expected to apply for to stay in Thailand longer than your average tourist?

[attrayant]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

Not to mention this:

and this:

Can somebody let them know about electronic document management? It's been all the rage since the late 90s.

[Thailand]

Well then in that case being foreigners yes its 800 000 per passport!

as immigration rules !

I think you will find that is not correct.

The wife would be a dependent in the case of a retirement visa and in such case 800,000THB in the name of the husband only will suffice.

Even if the wife is allso a foreigner ?

If in this situation " the husband then fell of his twig what then would the dependant

have to do to satisfy immo ?

Firstly I am not an expert in this field, but have a certain amount of knowledge that should be confirmed by expert sources.

However, in the event of one spouse or the other passing away I believe that provided the survivor is over 50 and has 800,000THB it simply a retirement visa application.

[Handsomeman81]

After the recent surrogate parent issues the Immigration Office now requires that if the parents of a foreign child born in Thailand wish to take the child out of the country they must have a passport from their home country (obtained in Thailand) and the child must travel with the parents and the parents must show both the birth certificate and passport.

Hey Guys,

Reading the above has got me a little bit nervous, I am about to visit the UK with my son and fly in 10 days time, he has a UK passport,

However it says the child must be travelling with parents, he will be travelling with just me, so he will be just travelling with 1 parent, not parents,

Also whos birth certificate am I to show? I am not clear if it means I must show the childs birth certificate or I must show mine?

Are these rules only applying to Chaing Mai residents?

Any clarification would be appreciated, thanks in advance for your time,

My friend is in London with his two Thai/English sons right this moment so it is possible with only one parent. Having said that he does have custody, maybe that's made a difference? Can you mot get to an immigration office and ask the question? Good luck

Thanks for the input, I will be visiting a immigration office in the next few days with my wife and will ask immigration to write a letter so there will be no issues at the airport, hopefully they will write a letter saying i am legally taking my own son out of the country

[tomacht8]

It is clear that immigration has staff shortages.

Also the form of organization (structure and process) has remained largely unchanged.

They must provide simpler rules or provide more staff.

[dagobert]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

Not to mention this:

and this:

Can somebody let them know about electronic document management? It's been all the rage since the late 90s.

The Great paper trail, "That will never change"...

[Lupatria]

only teachers with teaching certification could get a one year extension on their visas but now non-teaching education personnel, such as a librarian or technical support person for the school, are also eligible for the one year extension under section 2.6.

I honestly congratulate all farrang librarians among the former visa runners! Best wishes to both of them!

[jcnbkk]

I just wonder, how long these rules stay in effect, and what's next.

[Sarana]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.