Palestinian President Abbas ready to seek peace pact on his own

[konying]

You are being silly.

The predicament of the Arabs was not because of the war.

It was because of the arrival of the European Askenazi Zionists,

If the Zionists had not arrived, Sephardic Jews, Christians and Muslims would still be living in peace, and millions of people would still be alive.

I am being silly?

2 posts above you state you not interested in history and semantics but now as it does not suit your agenda , all over sudden history and semantics matter?

Typical Arab spins to twist and manipulate. Getting boring....

I guess crusades were all a myth, ???? Utter nonsense, what's next?

Edited August 26, 2014 by konying

[Jingthing]

Did someone mention history?

Here is some to counter to rabid "anti-Zionist" propaganda being bandied about as "truth" these days.

It's also got some amazing information about how the United Nations has become an obviously biased source of anti-semitism.

Relevant to this thread as Abbas wishes to use the U.N. to meet his goals.

In today's world being anti-Israel or anti-Zionist is simply CODE for being antisemitic. More socially acceptable in polite society.

Of course criticizing specific Israeli policies is another matter.

Not all people who do that are antisemitic. But of course some are.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[joepublic]

Did someone mention history?

Here is some to counter to rabid "anti-Zionist" propaganda being bandied about as "truth" these days.

It's also got some amazing information about how the United Nations has become an obviously biased source of anti-semitism.

In today's world being anti-Israel or anti-Zionist is simply CODE for being antisemitic. More socially acceptable in polite society.

Of course criticizing specific Israeli policies is another matter.

Not all people who do that are antisemitic. But of course some are.

Good god - I've heard of recycling, but your attempt to smear anything you don't like as anti semetic is just so tired.

If you are out of ideas, please PM the usual suspect here for a new talking point.

Oh, and feel free to avoid dealing with the issue that Zionism is the root of the land grab. not the religion of the Jews which forbid them from having a state.

[Jingthing]

Good god - I've heard of recycling, but your attempt to smear anything you don't like as anti semetic is just so tired.

If you are out of ideas, please PM the usual suspect here for a new talking point.

Oh, and feel free to avoid dealing with the issue that Zionism is the root of the land grab. not the religion of the Jews which forbid them from having a state.

What land grab? It sounds like you are against the existence of Israel from the START. Is that the so called "land grab" you mean? You know it's clear your hostility towards Israel is in the extremely irrational and rabid zone. So excuse me if I don't jump to respond instantly every one of your inflammatory baits. Your suggestion of an imagined equivalence of Isis and Zionism is a new low level in anti-Israel INSANITY. Not worth anyone's time to bother responding to such rubbish.

If your only defense of your extremist anti-Zionism is to use a tiny minority of totally whacked out ultra religious Jews, please spare us. They do not represent the Jewish people in any meaningful way WHATSOEVER. Also your obsession with religion is weird. Israel is a state of the Jewish PEOPLE in a similar way that Thailand is a state of the THAI people

Yes Judaism IS a religion, but Jews are a PEOPLE (or perhaps more precisely an ethnoreligious group). Being "religious" is not needed to be a Jew.

If you fail to understand why the Jewish people were attracted to the idea of a state and the area of ISRAEL specifically, again I do recommend some history lessons.

The video I included can provide some background of understanding to those who have only been exposed to the "anti-Zionist" propaganda. I realize some people are beyond ever changing their POV ... but assume more people read than post and some reading have a more open mind.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[Scott]

A large number of off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies have been deleted. Please re-read the OP and post about the topic. Not doing so will result in a suspension.

[up-country_sinclair]

I applaud Abbas for announcing that he is considering joining the ICC to pursue justice against Israel and its numerous violations of international law. Of course the Israeli response will inevitably default to playing the 'antisemitism' card.

Edited August 27, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[Ulysses G.]

Of course the Israeli response will inevitably default to playing the 'antisemitism' card.

No need for that - even though it is perfectly valid point. Israel will simply point to the 1995 Interim Agreement which states that "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the Permanent Status negotiations." Both sides signed and there is no getting out of it.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/the%20israeli-palestinian%20interim%20agreement.aspx

Edited August 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[boomerangutang]

I applaud Abbas for announcing that he is considering joining the ICC to pursue justice against Israel and its numerous violations of international law. Of course the Israeli response will inevitably default to playing the 'antisemitism' card.

Wiley Coyote would be impressed. Two sides battling. One side consistently loses, so it goes to international opinion to gain sympathy points. Last time I checked, it wasn't 'against international law' to protect one's country from hostile acts.

As comparison, here's are two issues which, to me, are at least as important as the Israeli/Palestinian issue:

>>> Tibet revert back to being a nation for Tibetans.

>>> China quit trying to take possession of Philippine and Vietnamese islands.

[Ulysses G.]

As comparison, here's are two issues which, to me, are at least as important as the Israeli/Palestinian issue:

>>> Tibet revert back to being a nation for Tibetans.

>>> China quit trying to take possession of Philippine and Vietnamese islands.

Two very important issues that the UN does very little about. Where is the outrage of the left over "the numerous violations of international law" committed by China? President Abbas can try to violate the treaties signed by the Palestinians, but he will end up empty-handed.

[up-country_sinclair]

Abbas mentions going to the UN and joining the ICC and the panic level rises considerably in Tel Aviv:

Speaking to Israel Radio on Tuesday, Steinitz said Abbas was playing a "double game" and that while Hamas was launching rockets at Israel, Abbas was launching "diplomatic rockets" in the form of threats to turn to the United Nations and to join the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Steinitz-slams-Abbas-says-he-is-launching-diplomatic-rockets-at-Israel-372368

“No one will threaten us, not Abbas nor anyone else. I’ve never heard of a nation who withdraws from its land,” Akunis told Arutz Sheva in response to Abbas’s plans.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184419

The panic comes from the fact that they know the tide has turned and the international community is going to take a stand. They're also worried about their declining influence in Washington DC.

Abbas is laying the groundwork for ending the era of unchecked Israeli tyranny.

[up-country_sinclair]

Tibet, Vietnam, Java, The Philippines, and Indonesia?

Apparently some of you missed this post by the moderator:

Please re-read the OP and post about the topic. Not doing so will result in a suspension.

Let's try and reduce the distractions and stay on the topic, "Palestinian President Abbas Ready to Seek Peace Pact On His Own"

[Ulysses G.]

Abbas is laying the groundwork for ending the era of unchecked Israeli tyranny.

Au contraire. All he is doing it trying to stay relevant politically. Pretty much everyone knows his initiative is not going anywhere.

Given how the continuing fighting has raised Hamass standing with the Palestinian public, some analysts saw the initiative, along with Mr. Abbass recent meetings with the Egyptian president and the Qatari emir, largely as a bid to stay relevant.

Hes trying to be engaged, trying to survive politically as leadership, trying to find a place in this new reality, said Ghassan Khatib, vice president of Birzeit University in Ramallah and a former spokesman for the Palestinian government. But Mr. Khatib, like others, said the political weight of Hamas increased during the war while the stature of Mr. Abbas and his Palestine Liberation Organization waned.

Its an illusion and wishful thinking that they will have increased role in the postwar, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/26/world/middleeast/abbas-seen-as-ready-to-seek-mideast-pact-on-his-own.html

[ABCer]

Thank you for listing the standard Zionist bullet points. Is this what you wanted, or were you trying to make some kind of point?

Its called common sense and logical approach, no different to any business or merger.

Only a fool will insist that a bigger and stronger opponent will bend over backwards.

You are right on your last sentence - and therein lies the reason for the injustice that characterizes the Zionist position.

The Zionists, as the bigger and stronger party, have no need to listen to anyone and will execute its own agenda without a moment of hesitation.

There is no Justice, there is only Might.

Welcome to planet earth and 21 century.

Your ideals are a fantasy.

Reality is it WAS Arabs who waged 3 wars and lost.

If they have not, they would not be in current predicament .

Naturally you chose to blame and bash Israel , not all are as blind and unrealistic

Enough!

The battle lines are clearly marked. The barricades are manned. Nobody is going to change their mind.

No amount of explanations, logical 'proofs', 'facts' or references can sway people's mind on each side of the divide.

Put on your bullet-proof vests and start shooting at each other!

Some might even want to bring their children with them AND put an explosives vest on instead. Wouldn't it make a nice touching picture on BBC?

Does anyone here think that you can win a debate going on for 2,000 years?

I would mark this and assosiated topics as dead read.

But let us stay on topic.

Just look at it: Palestinian President Abbas ready to seek peace pact on his own.

Every word here is for suckers. Every one is phony.

There are Presidents of Russia, USA, France, Italy, etc. There is no President of Palestine!

Abbas is ready to seek peace pact on his own! Not peace! But peace pact! And who is going to be bound by such a pact? Israel and he Himself? What is this pact good for? - Buy time, re-arm, re-group, re-dig!

If Israel is even going to meet such a seeker it is a sucker!

Edited August 27, 2014 by ABCer

[arjunadawn]

Abbas is trying to get a political piggy back off of Hamas' struggle. In the end he will fail as the majority of Palestinians prefer Hamas to Abbas.

Do you have a survey to back that up?

I know Abbas isn't very strong but not sure you're right about your assertion about Hamas popularity.

Right now there is an active war on, and Hamas popularity will be artificially inflated as happens in wartime.

Think you both have good points. Abbas seeks to stay relevant but in the end he is useless without the backing of those who support Hamas, whether Hamas remains in the game or not.

I do consider there may be dislike of Hamas in Gaza, but I am actually only conceding it may be true. I do believe, however, that there is widespread support for the annihilation philosophy that underlies Hamas. I think a recent Saudi poll indicating overwhelming support for IS is relevant to the gaza issue. Without question Hamas is backed by the MB affiliates. MB exists solely in pursuit of a caliphate, for a long time. IS establishes a caliphate. It is hardly possible it is not supported by MB. IS gets significant wherewithal through Turkey. Turkey supports the MB. Therefore, it is beyond credulity to see the local arab/Israeli conflict lacking this same regional context. Regionally, the overwhelming majority of the population supports Islamic mandates to destroy the Jews. Abbas may seek to rally right now, but there exists greater authority behind Hamas, IMO.

Note: It matters only historically which and what parties had which or what interests previously in gaza; facts are changing on the ground significantly- from Hamas refusing to aid its ally Syria as a proxy against IS (pissing off Iran and moving Hamas back into the MB fold) to Eqypt working hand in glove with Israel on the Gaza issue, the silence of GCC countries, relatively, to the current conflict, and the actual military mutual strikes in Libya from UAE and Egypt. Abbas may seek to remain relevant but increasingly he is not. There was a vital clue to the changing nature of this regional dynamic when al sissi in Egypt ousted Morisi and the MB. Incredibly, the US was backing the MB (this is why the regional alliances are now fracturing) and on the day that the coup took place in Cairo bagmen frm the GCC arrived with promissory notes in the billions of dollars to Cario (near 12 billion) to compensate Cairo for isolating the US (the US used money to coerce Cairo and the GCC rebuffed this) and taking the initiative in once again outlawing the MB.

The MB is motivating a much larger regional game. The Gaza issue is one of the current foci where this is playing out, irrespective of the history of the players involved. I doubt Abbas will get very far. I doubt Israel thinks differently than I do.

Edited August 27, 2014 by arjunadawn

[Pakboong]

Abbas is trying to get a political piggy back off of Hamas' struggle. In the end he will fail as the majority of Palestinians prefer Hamas to Abbas.

Do you have a survey to back that up?

I know Abbas isn't very strong but not sure you're right about your assertion about Hamas popularity.

Right now there is an active war on, and Hamas popularity will be artificially inflated as happens in wartime.

Think you both have good points. Abbas seeks to stay relevant but in the end he is useless without the backing of those who support Hamas, whether Hamas remains in the game or not.

I do consider there may be dislike of Hamas in Gaza, but I am actually only conceding it may be true. I do believe, however, that there is widespread support for the annihilation philosophy that underlies Hamas. I think a recent Saudi poll indicating overwhelming support for IS is relevant to the gaza issue. Without question Hamas is backed by the MB affiliates. MB exists solely in pursuit of a caliphate, for a long time. IS establishes a caliphate. It is hardly possible it is not supported by MB. IS gets significant wherewithal through Turkey. Turkey supports the MB. Therefore, it is beyond credulity to see the local arab/Israeli conflict lacking this same regional context. Regionally, the overwhelming majority of the population supports Islamic mandates to destroy the Jews. Abbas may seek to rally right now, but there exists greater authority behind Hamas, IMO.

Note: It matters only historically which and what parties had which or what interests previously in gaza; facts are changing on the ground significantly- from Hamas refusing to aid its ally Syria as a proxy against IS (pissing off Iran and moving Hamas back into the MB fold) to Eqypt working hand in glove with Israel on the Gaza issue, the silence of GCC countries, relatively, to the current conflict, and the actual military mutual strikes in Libya from UAE and Egypt. Abbas may seek to remain relevant but increasingly he is not. There was a vital clue to the changing nature of this regional dynamic when al sissi in Egypt ousted Morisi and the MB. Incredibly, the US was backing the MB (this is why the regional alliances are now fracturing) and on the day that the coup took place in Cairo bagmen frm the GCC arrived with promissory notes in the billions of dollars to Cario (near 12 billion) to compensate Cairo for isolating the US (the US used money to coerce Cairo and the GCC rebuffed this) and taking the initiative in once again outlawing the MB.

The MB is motivating a much larger regional game. The Gaza issue is one of the current foci where this is playing out, irrespective of the history of the players involved. I doubt Abbas will get very far. I doubt Israel thinks differently than I do.

Off the top of my head, I am pretty confident the death totals for Israeli citizens since Hamas took over in 2006 have been the lowest since 1948. That information really does not need interpretation.

Just trying out my new Avatar.

[arjunadawn]

Abbas is trying to get a political piggy back off of Hamas' struggle. In the end he will fail as the majority of Palestinians prefer Hamas to Abbas.

Do you have a survey to back that up?

I know Abbas isn't very strong but not sure you're right about your assertion about Hamas popularity.

Right now there is an active war on, and Hamas popularity will be artificially inflated as happens in wartime.

Think you both have good points. Abbas seeks to stay relevant but in the end he is useless without the backing of those who support Hamas, whether Hamas remains in the game or not.

I do consider there may be dislike of Hamas in Gaza, but I am actually only conceding it may be true. I do believe, however, that there is widespread support for the annihilation philosophy that underlies Hamas. I think a recent Saudi poll indicating overwhelming support for IS is relevant to the gaza issue. Without question Hamas is backed by the MB affiliates. MB exists solely in pursuit of a caliphate, for a long time. IS establishes a caliphate. It is hardly possible it is not supported by MB. IS gets significant wherewithal through Turkey. Turkey supports the MB. Therefore, it is beyond credulity to see the local arab/Israeli conflict lacking this same regional context. Regionally, the overwhelming majority of the population supports Islamic mandates to destroy the Jews. Abbas may seek to rally right now, but there exists greater authority behind Hamas, IMO.

Note: It matters only historically which and what parties had which or what interests previously in gaza; facts are changing on the ground significantly- from Hamas refusing to aid its ally Syria as a proxy against IS (pissing off Iran and moving Hamas back into the MB fold) to Eqypt working hand in glove with Israel on the Gaza issue, the silence of GCC countries, relatively, to the current conflict, and the actual military mutual strikes in Libya from UAE and Egypt. Abbas may seek to remain relevant but increasingly he is not. There was a vital clue to the changing nature of this regional dynamic when al sissi in Egypt ousted Morisi and the MB. Incredibly, the US was backing the MB (this is why the regional alliances are now fracturing) and on the day that the coup took place in Cairo bagmen frm the GCC arrived with promissory notes in the billions of dollars to Cario (near 12 billion) to compensate Cairo for isolating the US (the US used money to coerce Cairo and the GCC rebuffed this) and taking the initiative in once again outlawing the MB.

The MB is motivating a much larger regional game. The Gaza issue is one of the current foci where this is playing out, irrespective of the history of the players involved. I doubt Abbas will get very far. I doubt Israel thinks differently than I do.

Off the top of my head, I am pretty confident the death totals for Israeli citizens since Hamas took over in 2006 have been the lowest since 1948. That information really does not need interpretation.

Just trying out my new Avatar.

I think you may be correct regarding reduced deaths overall. However, information like this does have different interpretations. I for one interpret this as Israel having vigilance, pro activity, astute intel, and Hamas having invariably limited means of engagement, reduced capacity for significant operations, etc.

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this. Hamas' legitimacy could not be sustained with such an operating policy.

[Morch]

If you took a poll I wonder what the people of Palestine would say .

I think they would say what is in the article quoted in the first post on this thread:

call for an international conference or UN resolution demanding a deadline to end Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory. As leverage, Mr Abbas would finally join the International Criminal Court and other institutions where he has long threatened to pursue Israeli violations

Now is the time for Abbas to go to the International Criminal Court in pursuit of justice. The Palestinian people cannot be expected to live any longer with their necks under the boot of unchecked Israeli aggression.

Joining the ICC could be a tricky move for Abbas (or not, more about this in a bit). Apart from it being unclear who actually represents the Palestinians and is qualified to make such a move, joining the ICC would expose Palestinians to being sued in turn. Here it gets tricky - If Hamas is found guilty of war crimes, who will bear the responsibility? Hamas leaders are not all for joining the ICC exactly for this reason. Would it be Abbas himself, as the Palestinian head of state? Will the PA have any way to uphold a verdict against Hamas? Tricky.

It could be Abbas is actually bringing this up in order to apply pressure on the Hamas, domestic rivalry being what it is.

[Morch]

He should have done it ages ago.

It won't do him any good. It is just posturing. The 1995 Interim Agreement states that “Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the Permanent Status negotiations.” He is just

The agreements are indeed quite clear, and unless much mistaken, such a move would in fact give Israel legal and official reason to denounce previous agreements. But then it seems that this is basically what Abbas claims to go for - being a new framework for negotiations and solution. From the Palestinian side, it could be argued that Israel did not live up to all of its commitments included in the agreements (which would be correct, to a degree, legal fluff non-withstanding), which makes the agreements void (or perhaps a less harsh term).

That Abbas is mostly posturing and trying to keep himself relevant is obvious. Without it even being clear how much support he has from the Palestinians it is hard to see how this move could be taken seriously. Not enough that Israel could mount some serious problems, there's Hamas to consider as well.

[Morch]

Abbas mentions going to the UN and joining the ICC and the panic level rises considerably in Tel Aviv:

Speaking to Israel Radio on Tuesday, Steinitz said Abbas was playing a "double game" and that while Hamas was launching rockets at Israel, Abbas was launching "diplomatic rockets" in the form of threats to turn to the United Nations and to join the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Steinitz-slams-Abbas-says-he-is-launching-diplomatic-rockets-at-Israel-372368

“No one will threaten us, not Abbas nor anyone else. I’ve never heard of a nation who withdraws from its land,” Akunis told Arutz Sheva in response to Abbas’s plans.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184419

The panic comes from the fact that they know the tide has turned and the international community is going to take a stand. They're also worried about their declining influence in Washington DC.

Abbas is laying the groundwork for ending the era of unchecked Israeli tyranny.

Neither Steinitz nor Akunis are front row leaders - and even then, can't see panic - more indignation.

Of course, seeing either as representing "Israel" is a bit far fetched. They represent the Likud Party, at best.

There's a sizable public in Israel which does not conform with right wing ideas.

[Morch]

Abbas is trying to get a political piggy back off of Hamas' struggle. In the end he will fail as the majority of Palestinians prefer Hamas to Abbas.

Do you have a survey to back that up?

I know Abbas isn't very strong but not sure you're right about your assertion about Hamas popularity.

Right now there is an active war on, and Hamas popularity will be artificially inflated as happens in wartime.

Think you both have good points. Abbas seeks to stay relevant but in the end he is useless without the backing of those who support Hamas, whether Hamas remains in the game or not.

I do consider there may be dislike of Hamas in Gaza, but I am actually only conceding it may be true. I do believe, however, that there is widespread support for the annihilation philosophy that underlies Hamas. I think a recent Saudi poll indicating overwhelming support for IS is relevant to the gaza issue. Without question Hamas is backed by the MB affiliates. MB exists solely in pursuit of a caliphate, for a long time. IS establishes a caliphate. It is hardly possible it is not supported by MB. IS gets significant wherewithal through Turkey. Turkey supports the MB. Therefore, it is beyond credulity to see the local arab/Israeli conflict lacking this same regional context. Regionally, the overwhelming majority of the population supports Islamic mandates to destroy the Jews. Abbas may seek to rally right now, but there exists greater authority behind Hamas, IMO.

Note: It matters only historically which and what parties had which or what interests previously in gaza; facts are changing on the ground significantly- from Hamas refusing to aid its ally Syria as a proxy against IS (pissing off Iran and moving Hamas back into the MB fold) to Eqypt working hand in glove with Israel on the Gaza issue, the silence of GCC countries, relatively, to the current conflict, and the actual military mutual strikes in Libya from UAE and Egypt. Abbas may seek to remain relevant but increasingly he is not. There was a vital clue to the changing nature of this regional dynamic when al sissi in Egypt ousted Morisi and the MB. Incredibly, the US was backing the MB (this is why the regional alliances are now fracturing) and on the day that the coup took place in Cairo bagmen frm the GCC arrived with promissory notes in the billions of dollars to Cario (near 12 billion) to compensate Cairo for isolating the US (the US used money to coerce Cairo and the GCC rebuffed this) and taking the initiative in once again outlawing the MB.

The MB is motivating a much larger regional game. The Gaza issue is one of the current foci where this is playing out, irrespective of the history of the players involved. I doubt Abbas will get very far. I doubt Israel thinks differently than I do.

Off the top of my head, I am pretty confident the death totals for Israeli citizens since Hamas took over in 2006 have been the lowest since 1948. That information really does not need interpretation.

Just trying out my new Avatar.

And that wouldn't have to do with other factors, such as having Gaza under blockade, Security Barrier between Israel and the West Bank, Iron Dome operational, and regional players busy with their own backyards...?

I like your new Avatar better.

[Ulysses G.]

And that wouldn't have to do with other factors, such as having Gaza under blockade, Security Barrier between Israel and the West Bank, Iron Dome operational, and regional players busy with their own backyards...?

Of course it would. Unlike Hamas, Israel does its best to protect its citizens.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[coma]

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this.

There is something to be said that the vast majority of Israeli casualties were combatants. Not civilians. The flip side to the coin is in stark contrast.

[Jingthing]

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this.

There is something to be said that the vast majority of Israeli casualties were combatants. Not civilians. The flip side to the coin is in stark contrast.

Gaza uses human shields.

Israel has shelters and also THANK YOU ... Iron Dome.

Hamas open aim is just to kill any Israeli Jews ... witness the terror tunnels ... but happily they aren't there yet where they can do much.

Israeli soldiers were killed of course because they PHYSICALLY went into Gaza to go after military targets.

Israel's aim was military targets, but sadly Hamas (which obviously has the majority of blood on its hands) operates in or near civilian areas.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4614/why-i-support-israel#

3. Israel Intentionally Targets Civilians, and is Trying to Commit Genocide. FALSE

Israel goes to great lengths to try and avoid civilian casualties whenever possible, but when your enemy is constantly firing at you, utilizing its own children and civilians as human shields, it is nearly impossible to avoid civilian casualties; and unfortunately, in times of war, mistakes happen -- horrific ones, tragic ones.

Hamas however, always targets civilians -- always.

Yes, Jew spotters. There are JEWS behind the above source so please don't bother pointing that out. Covered.

Next ...

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[arjunadawn]

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this.

There is something to be said that the vast majority of Israeli casualties were combatants. Not civilians. The flip side to the coin is in stark contrast.

Saudi Arabia blames Hamas for the current bloodshed with Israel. 24 August 2014 (Multiple sources; see, IsraCast)

"It is shameful and disgraceful that these terrorists are doing this in the name of religion, killing people, whose killing Allah has forbidden, and mutilating their bodies, and feeling proud in publishing this. They have distorted the image of Islam with its purity and humanity and smeared it with all sorts of bad qualities by their actions, injustice, and crimes."

King Abdullah, accusing Hamas of being responsible for "collective massacre."

Hamas is among the military arms of the Muslim Brotherhood. When one condemns Israel, in light of some of Israel's current backers, they sing in a very bad choir. When The Servant of the Two Noble Sanctuaries or Protector of the Two Holy Cities condemns Hamas, this should cause one to revise their observations. Regardless of what one thought previously regarding the Israeli/Palestinian issue, ask yourself what is going on? What is different in ground facts now that has such unlikely bedfellows? Folks, for those who think Hamas is a legitimate entity, things are not as they seem.

Edit Note: The koran does not forbid the killing of Jews. The passage above is singularly related to Hamas killing, maiming, and sacrificing Palestinians- Muslims!

Edited August 28, 2014 by arjunadawn

[up-country_sinclair]

Gaza uses human shields.

Will Israel and its apologists ever grow weary of using this type of dehumanizing rhetoric to justify Israel's state sponsored massacre of innocent children?

Cavalierly using emoticons as if literally thousands of lives had not be extinguished. Apparently some just see it as a game they enjoy while awaiting their next supersized meal.

[arjunadawn]

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this.

There is something to be said that the vast majority of Israeli casualties were combatants. Not civilians. The flip side to the coin is in stark contrast.

Thank you for the introduction to this line of thinking. I responded with what I thought was said by the disproportionate numbers. Would you elaborate and tell us what you think the numbers mean?

[Jingthing]

Gaza uses human shields.

Will Israel and its apologists ever grow weary of using this type of dehumanizing rhetoric to justify Israel's state sponsored massacre of innocent children?

...

The kind of rhetoric you just used is actually hate speech. You are suggesting it is the government policy of Israel to intentionally mass murder innocent children. That is a total lie. Those pushing this new era blood libel lie against the Jews are a big part of the reason antisemitism is on the rise internationally.

Intentionally edited out your absurd comment about overeating. Irrelevant.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[arjunadawn]

If it is suggested that the reduced causalities are the intentional aim of Hamas I reject this.

There is something to be said that the vast majority of Israeli casualties were combatants. Not civilians. The flip side to the coin is in stark contrast.

Gaza uses human shields.

Israel has shelters and also THANK YOU ... Iron Dome.

Hamas open aim is just to kill any Israeli Jews ... witness the terror tunnels ... but happily they aren't there yet where they can do much.

Israeli soldiers were killed of course because they PHYSICALLY went into Gaza to go after military targets.

Israel's aim was military targets, but sadly Hamas (which obviously has the majority of blood on its hands) operates in or near civilian areas.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4614/why-i-support-israel#

3. Israel Intentionally Targets Civilians, and is Trying to Commit Genocide. FALSE

Israel goes to great lengths to try and avoid civilian casualties whenever possible, but when your enemy is constantly firing at you, utilizing its own children and civilians as human shields, it is nearly impossible to avoid civilian casualties; and unfortunately, in times of war, mistakes happen -- horrific ones, tragic ones.

Hamas however, always targets civilians -- always.

Yes, Jew spotters. There are JEWS behind the above source so please don't bother pointing that out. Covered.

Next ...

I read the link. I agree with nearly all his points, but I would look for a better source to support my position, Jingthing. He is right, but much of his argument is emotional. It would be easy for someone with a differing take to shoot holes in this article, particularly the first part. But you and I are nearly always on the same sheet of music.

[arjunadawn]

Gaza uses human shields.

Will Israel and its apologists ever grow weary of using this type of dehumanizing rhetoric to justify Israel's state sponsored massacre of innocent children?

...

The kind of rhetoric you just used is actually hate speech. You are suggesting it is the government policy of Israel to intentionally mass murder innocent children. That is a total lie. Those pushing this new era blood libel lie against the Jews are a big part of the reason antisemitism is on the rise internationally.

Intentionally edited out your absurd comment about overeating. Irrelevant.

Yea... the emoticon? In-artful, maybe? Otherwise, you do go to the heart of the matter. It is with stunning solidarity I find myself in total agreement with the King of Saudi Arabia. He has, as I have posted earlier, made overwhelming clear, Hamas is causing all of this tragedy in Gaza. I then ask, to what greater authority do posters like up_country_sinclair and others turn when the number one Islamic defender on this planet has decried Hamas and what it is doing in Gaza? How do those who have virulently anti Israeli perspectives not find their intellectual fortress crumbling?

"It is shameful and disgraceful that these terrorists are doing this in the name of religion, killing people, whose killing Allah has forbidden, and mutilating their bodies, and feeling proud in publishing this. They have distorted the image of Islam with its purity and humanity and smeared it with all sorts of bad qualities by their actions, injustice, and crimes."

King Abdullah, accusing Hamas of being responsible for "collective massacre."

[joepublic]

Gaza uses human shields.

Will Israel and its apologists ever grow weary of using this type of dehumanizing rhetoric to justify Israel's state sponsored massacre of innocent children?

...

The kind of rhetoric you just used is actually hate speech. You are suggesting it is the government policy of Israel to intentionally mass murder innocent children. That is a total lie. Those pushing this new era blood libel lie against the Jews are a big part of the reason antisemitism is on the rise internationally.

Intentionally edited out your absurd comment about overeating. Irrelevant.

It is not hate speech - we have seen the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields, and blowing up schools, hospitals and power stations. The IDF also targets pregnant women. The list of the murder of innocents by the IDF can go on.

This is why Israel is responsible for the rise in anti Semitism. Their actions put decent Jewish people in danger, but they don't care