Divorce...........a failure or a blessing ?

[benalibina]

My own parents were reasonably old when they married each other...my dad 45 and my mom 37. For both it was the 1st, and only, marriage. Looking back on life in the house i started to realise when i was 15 years old that their marriage was not a happy 1. Things happened which i considered, and started to understand were, odd, but as i was young i was too busy with my own life....sport friends school girls and the start of going out to party. My dad died in the mid nineties, terminally ill, and the time from diagnosis to death made things alot more clearer for me about their relationship. My old man only stayed with my mom because of me, friends of him told me. When i heard that i felt sad for him that my presence held him back to the road of happiness. Probably fear of the unknown and shame?? in both families played a role in it as well to stay together.

Anyway...fast forward...i am married too (1st time), and in a complicated familysituation, kids involved. The last couple of years i have done alot of reflection about my own life and tried my utmost to change in order to be happy again with my wife. I wanted to do it better as my own parents and, given the difficult circumstances, succeeded to make the change as a person. This because my dream was to have a happy family in Europe. Without going into details.....because of all what has happened in the relationship this will, 99,9%, never be possible again. Personally i have had a hard, sometimes still, time accepting that. Is it because i still love my wife ? Is it because i want the children to grow up in a happy loving family, with their father and mother ? I dont know. I always told my wife that i would only marry 1 time.

In this stage of my life i consider a divorce as a failure, with in my opinion only loosers. Mostly the children. Ofcourse i am aware life goes on.

As there are many expats living here with most likely a previous marriage in their homecountry, or have been married/divorced with a thai woman, how do/did you view your divorce......a failure or a blessing, at the time and now ?

Thanks in advance for sharing.

[dieter1]

We are told today, that we are the masters of our life,

concept of independence, concept of "free will", concept of guilt....

I was raised same way, but today I am very suspicious of of these concepts.

I think we in fact are acting like most people are acting in the same environment.

Divorce rate today is high, meaning, for most people it is impossible to have a life long marriage or, to have a marriage, stable enough for raising children.

Many people are afraid to have children at all.

I think, the circumstances for being married and for having children are very complicate today. We should try our best, especially when children are involved- but it does not help to blame ourselves.

Your father may chose to stay in his relation because of you. It was his decision. You do not know, what would happened to him, if he had chosen the other way. I could have been worth.

Happiness , for me, is more kind of Holywood " concept. In real life, times, moments of happiness are rare. Most of our time is just routine. glad the ones, who have some good moments sometimes.

Today I think, in spite of the weakness of marriage, we should try to take extra care of our children. You can still be a good father, when you are divorced. I know, it can be a hard time, to care for children, when you are in fight with the mother. But, you should show (not only tell) your children, that you care for them, even after divorce. I think, after divorce you need more effort to care for your children. But the good think is, that the connection with your children would be seen higher valued by yourself. Within the marriage, many take the relationship to the children as something for granted. After marriage, you may look at it with a different view.

Divorce should not mean you are divorced from your children. You are still the responsible father and have to care for your children.

So, what ever kind of decision you make, do not blame yourself , better be responsible in regard to your children and (!) to yourself.

Edited August 27, 2014 by dieter1

[AlexRRR]

Relationships break down all the time the ones that stay together go through waves of highs and lows, the reasons for a split can be complicated in the end if each person owns there decision and end it the right way one should take it as a learning experiance, in the end the suffering is created by your thinking, belive me children are better off when a toxic relationship is finnished and with both former partners on amicble terms.

I was married twice second time to Thai girl, both women were very good, i ended both and we parted on good terms, no children with the Thai.

I dont feel a faliure now but for a very short time i did, i wont ever marry again nor have children and this i have made very clear to both TGF's that followed, they didnt cut and run so that was an intresting observation.

We are all differant i wont stay with someone out of lonleyness or if its not working or for the sake of the kids, i think its a cop out, i dont think i know it all either, i made plenty of mistakes and im sure i will make a few more, in the end its about knowing who you are and what you want, someone else wont make you happy.

I see relationships as an experiance now, the last TGF was quite a handful but gee she was fun to be with, im also aware that the chances of it lasting till death do us part might not be reality, there are 2 of you, there needs to be a desire from both to work on it and work it out some can some cant and some have a curious way of doing it with there own slant on things.

Edited August 28, 2014 by AlexRRR

[bino]

in the end the suffering is created by your thinking, belive me children are better off when a toxic relationship is finnished and with both former partners on amicble terms.

This is spot-on.

Can you go on in your marriage with a happy face and set aside your dreams and hopes for your future... existing together with your wife for the sake of your kids? Or has your relationship deteriorated to the level that it has become a "toxic" environment?

A good friend of mine had a jewel of wisdom... Kids are better off coming from a broken home than living in one.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Unfortunately relationships are now based around what women want.

After having babies, many women appear to no longer want a man.

Just the babies, his house, and as much money as they can get from him.

In the past, they couldn't keep the house and money, without also keeping the man.

Now they can, so it's thank's for all your stuff and goodbye.

Broken home,

As the OP stated, in the past, many women hid their dissatisfaction, the children never knew, and grew up perfectly happy.

I take the view for children it's better to have a mother and father (with one or both of them being unhappy), than to be brought up by a single (female) parent (who is nearly always unhappy) and who restricts their access to the other (male) parent.

I understand this is not a popular view, as my view would mean many women are extremely selfish and don't really care about the welfare of their children. Women are always good, men are always evil being the modern philosophy.

@OP

It's not your fault the marriage failed, it's her fault, nothing you could do.

It's not your fault she restricts your access to your children, it's her fault, nothing you can do.

Really no point in agonizing about something which you have no control over.

It's just the way (many) women are.

Edited August 28, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[A1Str8]

Divorce is always a failure as it comes as a consequence of another failure that is doomed to fail by its nature: marriage. Marriage is just an invention of the gov and the church and a way to control people who can be controlled. So what do people expect from such creation? Do they actually think that it's going to work? I don't even understand why people get married. Because a long time ago they were made to believe in this nonsense? Why not think on their own instead? Then we would talk about success and not failure.

[96tehtarp]

"how do/did you view your divorce......a failure or a blessing, at the time and now ?"

I viewed both of my divorces as goddamned blessings, both then and now, however no children were involved. Several of my friends have had divorces where children were involved and surprisingly their children have been quite resilient. It's easier for them once they understand they are not going to lose either parent and they enjoy no longer having to put up with all of the unpleasantness and passive hostility.

Once divorced the marriage has officially failed. It doesn't mean the former couple are failures or losers, that's best dealt with as an entirely separate issue.

When I need a good laugh I sometimes re-watch the film "The War of the Roses".

[Aldebaran1981]

we control our own lives.

Divorce should not be considered as one's failure in life.

It could just mean that you were paired with the wrong woman.

Then again, it all boils down to the reason for divorce.

There wouldn't be any couple that does not squabble, argue nor quarrel. It's all part and parcel of marriage.

If you have kids, then you 2 adults must sit down and talk through on why things have worsened only now.

For me, it's pretty simple.. I don't wanna get married. I have been let down by women, both Thai and Chinese.

[grantbkk]

When I lived in the US over a few decades I was party to six successful divorces. The kids are all grown up now and successful thank God. I was a product of divorce at 8 which played A part in my future. For some reason I've been asked for my best advice many times.

Happiness is most important to me. My sage advice was, the first divorce is always the hardest.

Best of luck. Time heals most wounds.

Edited August 29, 2014 by grantbkk

[ozyjon]

I once saw a story about relationships and in that story was mentioned that humans tend to tolerate each other for about

25 years then it's over,, other animals stay together for life,,, so in saying that i suppose it's normal to get sick of each other

but stay together because you can tolerate each other or just like being together but that's about it folks, absolutely normal.

Love the one you are with or move on. (Good title for a song, let's all sing now)

[VINCENT2012]

As there are many expats living here with most likely a previous marriage in their homecountry, or have been married/divorced with a thai woman, how do/did you view your divorce......a failure or a blessing, at the time and now ?

there is a special place for those kind of discussion, the psychologist and..... or.... the psychiatrist.

Thanks in advance for sharing...! what the hell !!

[csabo]

The problem with any long term commitment with another person be it business or love/marriage is that people change over time. If the change is not accepted things get ugly. The other problem with marriage is that, as it has been said before, "If you want out, you lose. If she wants out, you lose." If that mantra was proposed to a rational person regarding a business partnership, a logical person would not enter into that agreement. So why do they enter into a personal contract with a the cards equally stacked against themselves? Emotion. Which, as everyone knows, has no place in business. It sounds a bit cold to think of marriage as a business arrangement but I assure you, if and when it ends, it sure seems like a business deal to me because all that talk about love and emotion is quickly replaced with discussions about how much it's gonna cost you (not her) to make the anguish end. To all those who have found a life partner and are happy, I salute you and your spouse. I think everyone would agree they want what you have.

[NCFC]

Like the OP I stayed in a loveless marriage for the sake of my kid. As soon as she had grown up and left home I started to look for happiness with another partner. I felt I had wasted two decades of my life. When I found another person and separated from my wife my kid told me 'Dad, you should have done that years ago.'

[animatic]

" ...a failure or a blessing ? "

It usually is some of both. You try to hold a marriage together for assorted individual reasons.

Sometimes with success, or at some point it becomes a zero sum game. Time to get out.

Getting out of a irredeemably toxic relationship can be a blessing, even if the marriage was a failure.

But that doesn't mean the kids are totally abandoned by either parent, if the parents can keep their heads.

Giving the kids time with each parent, without the toxic fighting or silent recriminations, can also be a blessing for them.

If the parents keep their heads. Share the children, don't make them bargaining chips or weapons.

Sometimes one parent loses their mind more or less, happens to both genders, and this means the

fighting never stops. One partner may try not to fight, but that just makes the other angrier at not getting

the mental satisfaction of laying into the ex love/now enemy, and see them be hurt by it.

If the fighting is using the kids as weapons then this is far worse.

But it likely was already happening during the marriage, but more stealthy.

Better to split and minimise this mental damage for their sakes.

Divorce is not something you should want,

but it may be something you and the family need to heal.

And that can be a blessing.

Edited August 29, 2014 by animatic

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Sometimes one parent loses their mind more or less, happens to both genders, and this means the

fighting never stops. One partner may try not to fight, but that just makes the other angrier at not getting

the mental satisfaction of laying into the ex love/now enemy, and see them be hurt by it.

I can think of 250 cases where the wife prevented (or tried to prevent) the husband seeing the kids.

None where the husband even tried to stop the wife seeing her kids.

What planet do your divorced couples come from?

(mine all came from planet USA)

[Kabula]

Freedom is a blessing!

Free at last, free at last!

Yes

I'm in the renting mood forever.

A message to our male youth.

MOST, Women worldwide are all the same.

Over time it is impossible to make them happy.

They want more and more and more and as they age they get mean and angry about something that happened years ago.

Most take, but give little to nothing in return and still complain.

They try to grind you down as misery loves company!

Media, the Internet and smart phones have destroyed any hope of harmony of two souls in my opinion.

[animatic]

Sometimes one parent loses their mind more or less, happens to both genders, and this means the

fighting never stops. One partner may try not to fight, but that just makes the other angrier at not getting

the mental satisfaction of laying into the ex love/now enemy, and see them be hurt by it.

I can think of 250 cases where the wife prevented (or tried to prevent) the husband seeing the kids.

None where the husband even tried to stop the wife seeing her kids.

What planet do your divorced couples come from?

(mine all came from planet USA)

USA, Europe and Asia. I'm a yank, but my divorce was in France.

Witnessed lunatic divorce infighting here in Thailand by others.

I've ALSO seen American men here lose it and the Thai wife seem the reasonable one...

as odd as that may sound to you.

[Utley]

If you are single observing from the sidelines it is a failure; if you are married it is a blessing.

[JockPieandBeans]

Benalbina

I have 1 marriage behind me, it was a Western marriage and I am now divorced 15 years.

5 years into the marriage I should have walked away. I never, I stayed because of the kids. It took a further 9 years to call time and it was the most heart wrenching time in my life.

There is no advice that someone can give you, you must make that decision.

I have often thought of these little dittys:

1. It is better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.

2. It is better to try and fail, than not try at all.

Whatever way life pulls and stretches you, you will come to the right decision.

Good luck.

PS. It was the best decision I ever made.

[sanuk711]

I think I have worked it out for you....with nearly 4,000 posts on Thai-Visa, you just don't have any time for anything else in your life........

.

Just joking benalibina....my kids (who now have kids of their own) tell me that the period after I broke up, was for them a time that they look back on with affection, because I only had them 2 or 3 days a week, we always had to do something---wake up get breakfast at Mcac's, do your homework, lets go to the movies--Sunday, lets go swimming I was never that proactive when we all lived together, I loved them of course, but there always seemed to be other priorities, & we were together all the time--we can go swimming another day. My life was richer also --though certainly not in $$$ that was a struggle . Peace of mind Vs Stress --you just don't realize how bad stress is for your body, & how nice peace of mind is----but you don't get that instantly , you have to wait until the heat goes out of the broken relationship... but it will come. Small things can make your decision for you, I had just reread the R,Frost poem “the road not taken” it’s a simple poem, that’s been around for years. (1916) It’s about the reality of every human being who has to make choices during their lives, about facing the fear of that choice. And in our lives, indeed the choices are not always easy, because either we win or lose a lot because of them. The metaphor is he comes across two roads & doesn’t know which to take.

.

"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,---And sorry I could not travel both”

.

Both roads could have a satisfactory result, but only one can be chosen. One road is well trodden & you can see the way, the other looks a little more difficult & you really don’t know where it will end.

.

Good luck with whatever road you chose

http://www.bartleby.com/119/1.html

Edited August 29, 2014 by sanuk711

[lcp0761]

Unfortunately relationships are now based around what women want.

After having babies, many women appear to no longer want a man.

Just the babies, his house, and as much money as they can get from him.

In the past, they couldn't keep the house and money, without also keeping the man.

Now they can, so it's thank's for all your stuff and goodbye.

Broken home,

As the OP stated, in the past, many women hid their dissatisfaction, the children never knew, and grew up perfectly happy.

I take the view for children it's better to have a mother and father (with one or both of them being unhappy), than to be brought up by a single (female) parent (who is nearly always unhappy) and who restricts their access to the other (male) parent.

I understand this is not a popular view, as my view would mean many women are extremely selfish and don't really care about the welfare of their children. Women are always good, men are always evil being the modern philosophy.

@OP

It's not your fault the marriage failed, it's her fault, nothing you could do.

It's not your fault she restricts your access to your children, it's her fault, nothing you can do.

Really no point in agonizing about something which you have no control over.

It's just the way (many) women are.

In general, we are "ingrained" that as a man/lady grow-up, they date, they get married, they have kids, retire, and then die.

As a catholic, I remember hearing about couple counseling for those who experience marriage problems.

I divorced a woman after 20-years after we grew apart. We had 3-kids and I would have not changed as they are great.

But the reality is over time things/people change and why live if your unhappy. If you hate to come home to see the spouse. If the spouse nags and nags and nags.

Now being divorced for almost 5-years, life is as good as it ever has.

Yes it helps living in Thailand where if you have money you have options

[herb59]

i was never divorced, as i didnt want to marry a person, who has in case the law only on her side.....didnt regret that decision.....

[belg]

sadly, overhere, once divorced and you are not the retired or the working kind, the governement kicks you out ... children or no children ... if the wife is hostile and she does not even give you a copy of the birth certificate .... game over ...

so after several years of marriage, you have to go scratch to find a solution of ED or other dubious course to stay in this country where you relocated all your money after you sold your business & house in your home country...

[Loptr]

I've been married and divorced twice... Each divorce felt like the end of the world, but after time it was obvious that they were blessings in disguise... Don't beat yourself up over a relationship that has soured and don't stay in a bad relationship due to fears of the future... Make the best of it and move on, you will be happier in the end...

Edited August 29, 2014 by Loptr

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I now look on divorce as the opportunity to have more children with a younger wife.

Your previous wife can never get her fertility back.

Don't get mad, get even.

Edited August 29, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[risky11]

OP, had a sad life when young?

Now, I understand his bitterness and resent for other people.

But, please, do allow the rest of us to be happy, we had no involvement in your childhood.

Oh great, just what we need - a judgmental person who feels the need pollute this thread by attacking the OP. Talk about sad, bitter and resentful. This is transparent projection...

[risky11]

sadly, over here, once divorced and you are not the retired or the working kind, the government kicks you out ... children or no children ... if the wife is hostile and she does not even give you a copy of the birth certificate .... game over ...

so after several years of marriage, you have to go scratch to find a solution of ED or other dubious course to stay in this country where you relocated all your money after you sold your business & house in your home country...

This might make a thread of it's own. I would never put alot of money in a third world country. Singapore and Hong Kong are the banking centers of Asia. If your money is sitting in a Thai bank, you should be able to wire it elsewhere. If it's tied up in real estate, all you can do is offer it for sale and wait.

I was raised to always buy - never rent - because you accumulate EQUITY when you own. However, now that I am 59, I see that RENTING is often the wiser move. Especially when it comes to women. Always rent - never buy! They must have the fear of financial loss. Otherwise, the smile and cooperative attitude evaporate.

[GOLDBUGGY]

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Unfortunately relationships are now based around what women want.

After having babies, many women appear to no longer want a man.

Just the babies, his house, and as much money as they can get from him.

In the past, they couldn't keep the house and money, without also keeping the man.

Now they can, so it's thank's for all your stuff and goodbye.

Broken home,

As the OP stated, in the past, many women hid their dissatisfaction, the children never knew, and grew up perfectly happy.

I take the view for children it's better to have a mother and father (with one or both of them being unhappy), than to be brought up by a single (female) parent (who is nearly always unhappy) and who restricts their access to the other (male) parent.

I understand this is not a popular view, as my view would mean many women are extremely selfish and don't really care about the welfare of their children. Women are always good, men are always evil being the modern philosophy.

@OP

It's not your fault the marriage failed, it's her fault, nothing you could do.

It's not your fault she restricts your access to your children, it's her fault, nothing you can do.

Really no point in agonizing about something which you have no control over.

It's just the way (many) women are.

I like the valid point you made about past divorce and now, and agree with it. The Laws have changed. It is too easy now for a woman to divorce the man, yet still get Child Support Payments as well as the House and Car. My Old Favorite Comic used to say "When the Women don't find you Handsome.... they had better find you Handy." Funny but True! As long as the Woman has a need for you then you are safe.

In Theory it is all nice to say that after Divorce you can still be a Good Father or Parent. But in reality this seldom happens. Especially when you are married to a woman from a different country than yours. So a Divorce can also mean a physical separation from your kids in distance. So for those who were forced to pack-up and move away it is more difficult.

I think society is to blame for our divorce rate. It is just too quick and easy now. Especially for the woman. In days gone past people lived together because in most case felt they had to. For financial reasons, mostly I guess. Love had left long ago. But they depended on each other for whatever living they could make together. Only the rich and famous got divorces back then.

[animatic]

USA lawyers will recommend the women try to get the kids because there is more money and power in it for them. A single divorced woman will not have the best earning prospects. Coupled with the perception that women are better nurturers. Whether that perception matches more than a stereotype is an ongoing debate. More one of style than substance after children are in school ages.

[BusyB]

Neither. It's just another lesson.

All the best.

Edited August 29, 2014 by BusyB