Should we listen to the children?

[GuestHouse]

what are "the professions"?

Professional: Engineers, Architects, Economists, Doctors...

Just like the professions the world over.

i would count teachers and nurses as well

You might do, but unless they are governed by a professional body that sets a standard and requirements and issues a licence to practice, then I would not.

Teaching and nursing are worthy jobs, but it can hardly be claimed that all teachers and nurses are professionals.

[AYJAYDEE]

what are "the professions"?

Professional: Engineers, Architects, Economists, Doctors...

Just like the professions the world over.

i would count teachers and nurses as well

You might do, but unless they are governed by a professional body that sets a standard and requirements and issues a licence to practice, then I would not.

Teaching and nursing are worthy jobs, but it can hardly be claimed that all teachers and nurses are professionals.

registered nurses arent governed by a professional body with set standards? economists are??

[GuestHouse]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

[Gecko123]

critical thinking can be taught at home, as can respect.

critical thinking: the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement

I agree with cooked that parents play a huge role in developing this skill in their children, just in the process of discussing things with them. I think I have pretty good "critical thinking" skills, but I'm not really sure where they came from. I'm sure school played a role, but when I think back to my childhood, it feels like a lot of it came from listening to my parents and other people talking about stuff and trying to decide whether I agreed with them or not.

It's true that with a lot of Thai kids when you ask their opinion about stuff you either get a shrug or "I don't know" for an answer. On the other hand, my step-daughter seems to be getting a math and science education which runs circles around what I was taught back in the day.

[AYJAYDEE]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

[GuestHouse]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

And so is assumption.

You assume I am basing my experience on Bangkok, or indeed any one province of region of Thailand - I am not.

Every region of Thailand has its private schools and they are filled with the children of Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to keep their children out of the State Education system.

Church schools are an example - The number of Thai professionals educated in Church run schools in Thailand is out of all proportion when compared with the total number of schools in Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

And so is assumption.

You assume I am basing my experience on Bangkok, or indeed any one province of region of Thailand - I am not.

Every region of Thailand has its private schools and they are filled with the children of Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to keep their children out of the State Education system.

Church schools are an example - The number of Thai professionals educated in Church run schools in Thailand is out of all proportion when compared with the total number of schools in Thailand.

the fact that a group of status conscious materialists decide to put their kids in private schools has no bearing on the quality of public schools or the graduates

[benalibina]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

And so is assumption.

You assume I am basing my experience on Bangkok, or indeed any one province of region of Thailand - I am not.

Every region of Thailand has its private schools and they are filled with the children of Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to keep their children out of the State Education system.

Church schools are an example - The number of Thai professionals educated in Church run schools in Thailand is out of all proportion when compared with the total number of schools in Thailand.

the fact that a group of status conscious materialists decide to put their kids in private schools has no bearing on the quality of public schools or the graduates

The fact that many pensioners like to retire in Thailand instead of Afghanistan has no bearing on the quality of life in Afghanistan.

[AYJAYDEE]

The fact that many pensioners like to retire in Thailand instead of Afghanistan has no bearing on the quality of life in Afghanistan.

youre hired

[hotsoup]

Well. Another day! I did not think I was opening up such a can of worms!

I have to repeat: the reasons that they go/went to local Thai schools are (they are luk khreung..I see no reason for them to not have the best of the cultures into which they have been born)

1. They learn to read and write Thai. They have friends from what is basically their Jangwat

2. We have chosen where to live in Thailand. Based on pretty calculated decisions. Family, quality of life, cost of

land and property, absence of pollution and traffic jams! The older children are multilingual and multicultural. They live on their own. Well qualified, they have chosen, so far, not to leave; though they could. Why have they changed their minds?

I do not know.....Its a sort of "Thailand?": been there, done that, maybe

I wonder how many posters have spent time recently in the UK and France? With children in school.

I think:

All cultures have a tendency to be 'narrow'and conformity in Thailand comes high on that list!

I am thoroughly opposed to so called 'international schools' I think the UK schools here and in Malaysia/Singapore are just in it for the money. Of course a certain 'kudos' attaches to those who have attended them. My sister

and I went to some of the most prestigious schools and universities in the UK and the US and France. You know...

Wycombe Abbey, Oxford, Yale.Learned pretty well nothing. We were never listened to; just sent off to be processed like peas.My sister does home schooling. She says I will never send my children away to endure what we had to. She is very keen on governesses! Difficult to find here! Thais either too rich or too idle! We found a lady willing to teach my daughter Japanese. All went well; but after 2 months...sorry I do not have the time..I need to be in the temple every day.........

Sorry all very domestic and boring,,but some insights into daily living in LOS!!

[beachproperty]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

And so is assumption.

You assume I am basing my experience on Bangkok, or indeed any one province of region of Thailand - I am not.

Every region of Thailand has its private schools and they are filled with the children of Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to keep their children out of the State Education system.

Church schools are an example - The number of Thai professionals educated in Church run schools in Thailand is out of all proportion when compared with the total number of schools in Thailand.

the fact that a group of status conscious materialists decide to put their kids in private schools has no bearing on the quality of public schools or the graduates

Nor does the fact that your children have done well in a Canadian College? Don't understand why you apply one standard to others comments and not the same to your own comments which are limited only to the experience you have had with your children!

[CaptHaddock]

The kids are demonstrating more critical thinking than the father. I think the kids are right. Not strictly impossible to get a good education in Thailand, but the odds are very much against it.

[GuestHouse]

Well. Another day!…….

My sister and I went to some of the most prestigious schools and universities in the UK and the US and France. You know...

Wycombe Abbey, Oxford, Yale.Learned pretty well nothing. We were never listened to; just sent off to be processed like peas.

Well clearly the failed to instil critical thinking.

But then you know it is, another day on the internet.

[GuestHouse]

Registered nurses are professionals (not all nurses are registered).

Registered nurses are also graded in the areas they can work - example: Not all registered nurses are swab nurses (very few are) even fewer are nurse practioners.

So don't fudge - back to the issue.

Thai state schools - The vast majority of them provide a substandard education - Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to choose - choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools.

Its precisely the reason why the private school sector in Thailand is so large (and profitable).

well that is just not the case in provinces distant from Bangkok but I understand your generalizations. its de rigueur in Thai Visa.

And so is assumption.

You assume I am basing my experience on Bangkok, or indeed any one province of region of Thailand - I am not.

Every region of Thailand has its private schools and they are filled with the children of Thai professionals and Thais who can afford to keep their children out of the State Education system.

Church schools are an example - The number of Thai professionals educated in Church run schools in Thailand is out of all proportion when compared with the total number of schools in Thailand.

the fact that a group of status conscious materialists decide to put their kids in private schools has no bearing on the quality of public schools or the graduates

And the man who likes to complain about others making broad brush generalisations is back again.

I have given you examples of the choices made by people I know, I have explained the sacrifice people make for an education and the fact that I know very very few Thai professionals who place their children in the state education system.

Your response is to rely upon the very same basis of argument that you decry in others - Gross generalisation.

You accuse masses of people you do not know, who are making significant sacrifices for the education of their children as 'Status Conscious Materialists'

Well done AJAYDEE, you've exposed yourself as that which you profess to despise most.

But don't feel bad about it - Its often the case.

[farang000999]

They must have sat OP in the corner next to George W Bush with a deck of cards at Yale.

[AYJAYDEE]

And the man who likes to complain about others making broad brush generalisations is back again.

I have given you examples of the choices made by people I know, I have explained the sacrifice people make for an education and the fact that I know very very few Thai professionals who place their children in the state education system.

Your response is to rely upon the very same basis of argument that you decry in others - Gross generalisation.

You accuse masses of people you do not know, who are making significant sacrifices for the education of their children as 'Status Conscious Materialists'

Well done AJAYDEE, you've exposed yourself as that which you profess to despise most.

But don't feel bad about it - Its often the case.

sorry pal, all I did was disprove your generalization with the fact that I know many many folks who DONT put their kids in private schools and who do just as well at college as any .

[farang000999]

Ramkenhaeng University.

Educating the Bank Tellers Of Tomorrow.

Edited September 2, 2014 by farang000999

[GuestHouse]

sorry pal, all I did was disprove your generalization with the fact that I know many many folks who DONT put their kids in private schools and who do just as well at college as any .

If that was all AYJAYDEE you might have a point, but you frequently gripe about generalizations and then when you can't come up with a reasoned argument against the point I made you resort to the self same negative generalizations you decry in others.

You did not have to use the term " status conscious materialists" it was term all of your own choosing.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we all make choices in life that we feel at sometime we need to defend. You have told us that you chose to send your children to Thai state schools, its not a choice I would make, its not a choice very many Thai people make if they are fortunate enough to be able to choose otherwise (A choice many make and support by means of sacrifices elsewhere in their lives).

Some can't make those choices, others are not willing to make sacrifices for their children's education. Some make choices in other aspects of their life which impact the on going opportunities open to themselves and their children - Its a whole mixed bag.

I might dream up a host of derogatory terms for people who put their own needs before the needs of their children - I choose not to.

You of course will appreciate me not doing so, because you profess a disdain for people who make negative generalizations about groups of other people.

That you choose to resort to such negative generalizations when your run out of reasoned arguments lends a lie to your stance of negative generalizations.

And of course you are aware, I'm not your 'pal', regardless of how hard you thump it into your keyboard.

Edited September 2, 2014 by GuestHouse

[AYJAYDEE]

sorry pal, all I did was disprove your generalization with the fact that I know many many folks who DONT put their kids in private schools and who do just as well at college as any .

If that was all AYJAYDEE you might have a point, but you frequently gripe about generalizations and then when you can't come up with a reasoned argument against the point I made you resort to the self same negative generalizations you decry in others.

You did not have to use the term " status conscious materialists" it was term all of your own choosing.

Don't get me wrong, I understand we all make choices in life that we feel at sometime we need to defend. You have told us that you chose to send your children to Thai state schools, its not a choice I would make, its not a choice very many Thai people make if they are fortunate enough to be able to choose otherwise (A choice many make and support by means of sacrifices elsewhere in their lives).

Some can't make those choices, others are not willing to make sacrifices for their children's education. Some make choices in other aspects of their life which impact the on going opportunities open to themselves and their children - Its a whole mixed bag.

I might dream up a host of derogatory terms for people who put their own needs before the needs of their children - I choose not to.

You of course will appreciate me not doing so, because you profess a disdain for people who make negative generalizations about groups of other people.

That you choose to resort to such negative generalizations when your run out of reasoned arguments lends a lie to your stance of negative generalizations.

And of course you are aware, I'm not your 'pal', regardless of how hard you thump it into your keyboard.

I have every expectation that my kids can do just as well as yours any day of the week pal. and I know for a fact they have done better than lots of kids that had a private school education. and your generalizations about the quality of education that can be acquired in the public school system smack of elitism . ugh!

[GuestHouse]

I have every expectation that my kids can do just as well as yours any day of the week pal. and I know for a fact they have done better than lots of kids that had a private school education. and your generalizations about the quality of education that can be acquired in the public school system smack of elitism . ugh!

I'm expect you feel you've made the right decision for your children's education, just as I feel we made the right decision for our children's education.

Though you do seem to be a tad sensitive about the choices you made and you are clearly willing to make derogatory generalizations about Thai people who made different choices than you did.

I personally do not feel the choices we made need defending, its not a point of sensitivity with me.

[AYJAYDEE]

I have every expectation that my kids can do just as well as yours any day of the week pal. and I know for a fact they have done better than lots of kids that had a private school education. and your generalizations about the quality of education that can be acquired in the public school system smack of elitism . ugh!

I'm expect you feel you've made the right decision for your children's education, just as I feel we made the right decision for our children's education.

Though you do seem to be a tad sensitive about the choices you made and you are clearly willing to make derogatory generalizations about Thai people who made different choices than you did.

I personally do not feel the choices we made need defending, its not a point of sensitivity with me.

and yet you feel the need to make derogatory generalizations about the public school systems and the graduates they produce ! lol.

[GuestHouse]

and yet you feel the need to make derogatory generalizations about the public school systems and the graduates they produce ! lol.

No - I gave reasoned arguments and examples of why Thai people who have the choice do not send their children state schools. YOU responded by terming these people " status conscious materialists" - words and sentiments of your own choosing.

So where I gave you reasoned arguments and examples, YOUR response has been derogatory generalizations.

Its not that I don't understand. You made your choices in respect of sending your children to Thai state schools, I understand you believe you made the right choice - perhaps you did.

As one father to another, I hope you did.

I certainly have no regrets whatsoever over the choice we made, I do not feel the need to defend our decision and have no sensitivity on the matter.

Our decisions in these matters are behind us, they can't be changed - let it go and don't be so touchy on the matter.

[AYJAYDEE]

and yet you feel the need to make derogatory generalizations about the public school systems and the graduates they produce ! lol.

No - I gave reasoned arguments and examples of why Thai people who have the choice do not send their children state schools. YOU responded by terming these people " status conscious materialists" - words and sentiments of your own choosing.

So where I gave you reasoned arguments and examples, YOUR response has been derogatory generalizations.

Its not that I don't understand. You made your choices in respect of sending your children to Thai state schools, I understand you believe you made the right choice - perhaps you did.

As one father to another, I hope you did.

I certainly have no regrets whatsoever over the choice we made, I do not feel the need to defend our decision and have no sensitivity on the matter.

Our decisions in these matters are behind us, they can't be changed - let it go and don't be so touchy on the matter.

you made a sweeping generalization. I know it. you know it and all the squirming in the world cant change that! your words pal

"It seems the OP has moved his children from the French State Education schools to Thai Education State schools

From an excellent state education system to one of the most shoddy going".

" the vast majority of Thai schools which offer education ranging from less than adequate to downright disgraceful."

Edited September 2, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[GuestHouse]

you made a sweeping generalization. I know it. you know it and all the squirming in the world cant change that! your words pal

"It seems the OP has moved his children from the French State Education schools to Thai Education State schools

From an excellent state education system to one of the most shoddy going".

" the vast majority of Thai schools which offer education ranging from less than adequate to downright disgraceful."

I don't deny these words at all - You term them sweeping generalizations, I say they are views backed by hundreds of thousands of Thai people who, blessed with the choice, choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools - often at great financial burden to themselves.

You dismiss this argument by branding the hundreds of thousands of Thai people who make these choices as " status conscious materialists" - A classic sweeping derogatory generalisation of the type you complain about.

Once again, while I have some sympathy with you over your obvious sensitivity over your own choices, it does not make me your 'pal' - but I suspect you know that.

And I do have sympathy - We all of us, those who are genuinely concerned for the welfare and education of our children, make the best choices we can for our children - often at great sacrifice to ourselves. Its what good parents do.

I have no regrets over the choices we made but I am absolutely aware that having more choices than simply sending them to a Thai State School was a privilege.

Nevertheless I stand by my statement that I'm glad we did not send our children to Thai State Schools and it is certainly not a choice I'd recommend to any the parent who is free to choose.

That is something hundreds of thousands of Thai parents understand.

Like me, I suspect they too are happy with the choices they have made (are making) and I suspect too they feel no particular sensitivity to any criticism of their choices.

Certainly not any based on the derogatory generalisation that they are all " status conscious materialists"

Edited September 2, 2014 by GuestHouse

[AYJAYDEE]

you made a sweeping generalization. I know it. you know it and all the squirming in the world cant change that! your words pal

"It seems the OP has moved his children from the French State Education schools to Thai Education State schools

From an excellent state education system to one of the most shoddy going".

" the vast majority of Thai schools which offer education ranging from less than adequate to downright disgraceful."

I don't deny these words at all - You term them sweeping generalizations, I say they are views backed by hundreds of thousands of Thai people who, blessed with the choice, choose not to send their children to Thai State Schools - often at great financial burden to themselves.

You dismiss this argument by branding the hundreds of thousands of Thai people who make these choices as " status conscious materialists" - A classic sweeping derogatory generalisation of the type you complain about.

Once again, while I have some sympathy with you over your obvious sensitivity over your own choices, it does not make me your 'pal' - but I suspect you know that.

And I do have sympathy - We all of us, those who are genuinely concerned for the welfare and education of our children, make the best choices we can for our children - often at great sacrifice to ourselves. Its what good parents do.

I have no regrets over the choices we made but I am absolutely aware that having more choices than simply sending them to a Thai State School was a privilege.

Nevertheless I stand by my statement that I'm glad we did not send our children to Thai State Schools and it is certainly not a choice I'd recommend to any the parent who is free to choose.

That is something hundreds of thousands of Thai parents understand.

Like me, I suspect they too are happy with the choices they have made (are making) and I suspect too they feel no particular sensitivity to any criticism of their choices.

Certainly not any based on the derogatory generalisation that they are all " status conscious materialists"

lol! you base your elitist generalizations on the fact that you have company! and you have absolutely NO empirical data to back up your elitist prejudices! hundreds of thousands of middle and upper class thais have decided to buy and use skin whitening creams as well . your belief in the wisdom of the herd is hilarious.

[farang000999]

Just to be clear... you are basing your opinions on the entire Thai public system on the fact that your two daughters who were raised in Canada until high school spent some time in Thai public high school and then were able to go back to Canada and enroll in college and because of this large sample size (2) you have come to the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of Thai people send their children to private schools out of vanity?

[farang000999]

What are the class sizes of your children OP?

[AYJAYDEE]

Just to be clear... you are basing your opinions on the entire Thai public system on the fact that your two daughters who were raised in Canada until high school spent some time in Thai public high school and then were able to go back to Canada and enroll in college and because of this large sample size (2) you have come to the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of Thai people send their children to private schools out of vanity?

no i'm not.

[spidermike007]

the older ones are old enough to go live wherever they want and as for the younger ones, since when do parents design their lives around childrens whims??

Exactamundo. You want to live in Europe, go for it. I will buy you a ticket, but that is about it. You are on your own. Fend for yourself. Make the most of life, where we choose to live. Or move on. But stop moaning, and complaining, as it is a sign of a weak mind and a weak heart. Man up. Get a grip. Deal with the lot you have been given in life. Figure out a way to embrace contentment.

[farang000999]

the older ones are old enough to go live wherever they want and as for the younger ones, since when do parents design their lives around childrens whims??

Exactamundo. You want to live in Europe, go for it. I will buy you a ticket, but that is about it. You are on your own. Fend for yourself. Make the most of life, where we choose to live. Or move on. But stop moaning, and complaining, as it is a sign of a weak mind and a weak heart. Man up. Get a grip. Deal with the lot you have been given in life. Figure out a way to embrace contentment.

Easy there Ayn Rand, two of the children in question who want to go back to Europe are schoolaged. The older children with jobs are also imploring the parents to take them out of the public school system.