Should we listen to the children?

[farang000999]

Just to be clear... you are basing your opinions on the entire Thai public system on the fact that your two daughters who were raised in Canada until high school spent some time in Thai public high school and then were able to go back to Canada and enroll in college and because of this large sample size (2) you have come to the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of Thai people send their children to private schools out of vanity?

no i'm not.

ok can you direct me to your other data. all i have seen written in this topic is what is written above.

[AYJAYDEE]

Just to be clear... you are basing your opinions on the entire Thai public system on the fact that your two daughters who were raised in Canada until high school spent some time in Thai public high school and then were able to go back to Canada and enroll in college and because of this large sample size (2) you have come to the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of Thai people send their children to private schools out of vanity?

no i'm not.

ok can you direct me to your other data. all i have seen written in this topic is what is written above.

the details of my family history are none of your business. and your reading comprehension is lacking

[willyumiii]

When they are old enough and financially responsible enough they should be permitted to go.

But, as long as you are responsible for their well being, they need to follow your wishes.

End of story.

[beachproperty]

Just to be clear... you are basing your opinions on the entire Thai public system on the fact that your two daughters who were raised in Canada until high school spent some time in Thai public high school and then were able to go back to Canada and enroll in college and because of this large sample size (2) you have come to the conclusion that hundreds of thousands of Thai people send their children to private schools out of vanity?

no i'm not.

ok can you direct me to your other data. all i have seen written in this topic is what is written above.

the details of my family history are none of your business. and your reading comprehension is lacking

Just another poster "living in denial"...he has no other facts than using his two children "whom he had NOTHING to do with their education" to generalizing about the WHOLE educational system in Thailand.

Good luck with that........

[AYJAYDEE]

Just another poster "living in denial"...he has no other facts than using his two children "whom he had NOTHING to do with their education" to generalizing about the WHOLE educational system in Thailand.

Good luck with that........

i have far more relatives and friends in and from thailand than that. and you have no idea what i base my opinions on pal

[beachproperty]

Just another poster "living in denial"...he has no other facts than using his two children "whom he had NOTHING to do with their education" to generalizing about the WHOLE educational system in Thailand.

Good luck with that........

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

-Harlan Ellison

i have far more relatives and friends in and from thailand than that. and you have no idea what i base my opinions on pal

Well, PAL, glad to here that you have friends .....and REALLY, I know what you base your opinions on from your posts ...NOTHING!

Edited September 3, 2014 by beachproperty

[AYJAYDEE]

Just another poster "living in denial"...he has no other facts than using his two children "whom he had NOTHING to do with their education" to generalizing about the WHOLE educational system in Thailand.

Good luck with that........

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

-Harlan Ellison

i have far more relatives and friends in and from thailand than that. and you have no idea what i base my opinions on pal

Well, PAL, glad to here that you have friends .....and REALLY, I know what you base your opinions on from your posts ...NOTHING!

glad to here? lol. and you want to be taken seriously?

[hotsoup]

What are the class sizes of your children OP?

Well interestingly enough..and not usual for Thailand the P6 class has 19 children and the M2 28. When we went to look at the school in Hua Hin P6 had 55 children!! and the 2 Luk Khreung were perched outside the classroom door.

[hotsoup]

I am so sorry. There was no intention that this thread should aggravate people so much!

Maybe I should have been more explicit! Anyone been into a Lycee recently in rural France?

We did not take the children out of some hypothetically wonderful European education system and dump them in Thailand inwhat many people regard as one of the worst education systems in the world. The children have been to school in Wales, France and Thailand. Arguably the best was Wales. A system which recognises that testing is maybe not the best way to encourage learning. The problem there is that education is Welsh medium. Not the most useful language if you want to be free to move around the world; but entirely necessary if you want to work in Wales. Quite a lot of racism there too unless you are from the 'area'! It is all a bit odd. We had 2 children when my wife was very young. When they started to grow up we thought 'why don't we have some more?' Maybe things have changed in Thailand. While we were always on the qui vive for problems with Luk Khreung, it seems there are more problems now..and as much more with the teachers as the other children. Women encounter 'glass ceilings' in many places; maybe that is what the children are encountering. The little ones say school is stultifying. They say teachers don't care and the Thai children simply play games on their smartphones and galaxies all day. And they cannot read and write Thai correctly either!

[farang000999]

http://asiancorrespondent.com/76664/thai-education-part-1-ridiculous-o-net-questions/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/76877/thai-education-part-2-test-scores-standards-and-accountability/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/77060/thai-education-failures-part-3-pisa-scores-and-a-challenge-for-the-21st-century/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/78647/thai-education-failures-part-4-dismal-english-language-education/

[CaptHaddock]

If a parent could choose among Wales, France, and Thailand for a place to educate his children, it beggars belief that he would choose Thailand. What's more your kids have scoped out the Thai schools to a "T." They know the difference and just how bad the Thai schools are. In my opinion, you should listen to them and put their interests before your own, if you are in a position to do so. If they grow up knowing Welsh language as their best language, they can correct that later. But if they receive only a crappy education, they may never overcome the disadvantage no matter what the optimists posting here believe.

[samuibeachcomber]

So this topic is about higher school education,thai schools private schools schools abroad etc etc.

When children are young they should be "seen but not heard"

But when it comes to their views on schooling at a college uni level then they definitely need to be heard and their feelings,wants,desires taken into account,yes as parents we need to listen to them.

[hotsoup]

If a parent could choose among Wales, France, and Thailand for a place to educate his children, it beggars belief that he would choose Thailand. What's more your kids have scoped out the Thai schools to a "T." They know the difference and just how bad the Thai schools are. In my opinion, you should listen to them and put their interests before your own, if you are in a position to do so. If they grow up knowing Welsh language as their best language, they can correct that later. But if they receive only a crappy education, they may never overcome the disadvantage no matter what the optimists posting here believe.

Why does it 'beggar belief'? Have you lived in rural Wales and rural France? In Wales the average age of farmers is over 60. The youth unemployment rate is much on a par withe Spain. Rural France is not that different with the exception that the most profitable businesses are those renting porn videos. In both places the keys are a. to have land and b. to ride on the back of 'tourism', or benefits. In Thailand if you don't work you don't eat. You learn to be independent and self sufficient. Sure there are downsides; but so there are anywhere! And anyway they are learning Thai, Vietnamese, Lao, Chinese and Japanese. Probably they can correct those, later? I am/was asking a question that is important to us. I was not seeking offensive comments!!

[AYJAYDEE]

If a parent could choose among Wales, France, and Thailand for a place to educate his children, it beggars belief that he would choose Thailand. What's more your kids have scoped out the Thai schools to a "T." They know the difference and just how bad the Thai schools are. In my opinion, you should listen to them and put their interests before your own, if you are in a position to do so. If they grow up knowing Welsh language as their best language, they can correct that later. But if they receive only a crappy education, they may never overcome the disadvantage no matter what the optimists posting here believe.

if they receive a crappy education in thailand its their own fault

[GuestHouse]

lol! you base your elitist generalizations on the fact that you have company! and you have absolutely NO empirical data to back up your elitist prejudices! hundreds of thousands of middle and upper class thais have decided to buy and use skin whitening creams as well . your belief in the wisdom of the herd is hilarious.

An elitist generalisation based on the wisdom of the herd - Well done, you've invented a new form of logical argument.

You also expanded your list of derogatory generalisations of Thai people - You now add the term 'Herd'.

Lets see if you can work this out (I'm sure others can).

1. The producers of cosmetics spend vast sums of money advertising skin whitening products in Thailand - Thai people respond by buying large amounts of skin whitening products (Advertising works !)

2. The Thai private school system spends virtually nothing on advertising (in comparison to the skin whitening products Thai private schools spend almost negligible amounts).

So - Hundreds of thousands of Thai parents spend vast amounts of money, often at great sacrifice to themselves, in order to pay for private schooling for their children.

But you want us to believe that because those same hundreds of thousands of Thai parents making sacrifices to pay for the education are (how is it you describe them?!) a "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialists"

They can't possibly be Thai people who are not satisfied with the Thai State Education because to be so they would contradict your own point of view.

You made your choices, you tell us you were happy to send your children to Thai State Schools.

That is not a choice I would make, that is not a choice hundreds of thousands of Thai people who actually have a choice make.

Your only argument against myself and the choices these people make is that I am an elitist (no evidence given) and that Thai people who make scarifies to pay for private education are a "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialists" (Derogatory Generalisations of your own choosing).

I suggest you spend some time examining why you made the choices you personally made and less time imagining derogatory terms for people who make, or have the privilege to make, alternative choices.

Every argument you have put forward on the choices other people make is full of holes (and Derogatory Generalisations).

Edited September 3, 2014 by GuestHouse

[hotsoup]

http://asiancorrespondent.com/76664/thai-education-part-1-ridiculous-o-net-questions/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/76877/thai-education-part-2-test-scores-standards-and-accountability/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/77060/thai-education-failures-part-3-pisa-scores-and-a-challenge-for-the-21st-century/

http://asiancorrespondent.com/78647/thai-education-failures-part-4-dismal-english-language-education/

Good to have that on the forum! We do know all that! As I have tried to stress our children do not go to school to compete with that incompetence. They go to try and be competent in Thai, and that is hard enough; and to grow up in, what is where we live, a medium size town community. They have friends, they speak the local dialect. Belonging is in some respects as important as learning. They say they learn more in an hour on the Internet in an evening and through discussions with us than anything in school! I don't want them to have only a 'virtual' life!! Edited September 3, 2014 by hotsoup

[AYJAYDEE]

lol! you base your elitist generalizations on the fact that you have company! and you have absolutely NO empirical data to back up your elitist prejudices! hundreds of thousands of middle and upper class thais have decided to buy and use skin whitening creams as well . your belief in the wisdom of the herd is hilarious.

An elitist generalisation based on the wisdom of the herd - Well done, you've invented a new form of logical argument.

You also expanded your list of derogatory generalisations of Thai people - You now add the term 'Herd'.

Lets see if you can work this out (I'm sure others can).

1. The producers of cosmetics spend vast sums of money advertising skin whitening products in Thailand - Thai people respond by buying large amounts of skin whitening products (Advertising works !)

2. The Thai private school system spends virtually nothing on advertising (in comparison to the skin whitening products Thai private schools spend almost negligible amounts).

So - Hundreds of thousands of Thai parents spend vast amounts of money, often at great sacrifice to themselves, in order to pay for private schooling for their children.

But you want us to believe that because those same hundreds of thousands of Thai parents making sacrifices to pay for the education are (how is it you describe them?!) a "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialists"

They can't possibly be Thai people who are not satisfied with the Thai State Education because to be so they would contradict your own point of view.

You made your choices, you tell us you were happy to send your children to Thai State Schools.

That is not a choice I would make, that is not a choice hundreds of thousands of Thai people who actually have a choice make.

Your only argument against myself and the choices these people make is that I am an elitist (no evidence given) and that Thai people who make scarifies to pay for private education are a "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialists" (Derogatory Generalisations of your own choosing).

I suggest you spend some time examining why you made the choices you personally made and less time imagining derogatory terms for people who make, or have the privilege to make, alternative choices.

Every argument you have put forward on the choices other people make is full of holes (and Derogatory Generalisations).

based on your slavish devotion to what others seem to think is necessary, I'm not all that interested in WHAT you suggest

[GuestHouse]

I'm very clear about my critical views of Thai State Schools.

But there are, it seems worse options.

When we read arguments along the lines of an elitist generalisation based on the wisdom of the herd and Derogatory Generalizations along the lines of "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialist" levelled at Thai parents who make choices which undermine a line of argument, it suggests that whatever the ills of the Thai State School System, there are cases where it trumps the 'Home Schooling' option.

Hundreds of thousands of Thai parents pay for education for their children outside of the Thai State School System - They must be a 'Herd' they must be 'Status Conscious Materialists' and all because AYJADEE does not wish to accept the failings of the Thai State School System.

[AYJAYDEE]

I'm very clear about my critical views of Thai State Schools.

But there are, it seems worse options.

When we read arguments along the lines of an elitist generalisation based on the wisdom of the herd and Derogatory Generalizations along the lines of "Herd" and "Status Conscious Materialist" levelled at Thai parents who make choices which undermine a line of argument, it suggests that whatever the ills of the Thai State School System, there are cases where it trumps the 'Home Schooling' option.

Hundreds of thousands of Thai parents pay for education for their children outside of the Thai State School System - They must be a 'Herd' they must be 'Status Conscious Materialists' and all because AYJADEE does not wish to accept the failings of the Thai State School System.

its the failings of the students and their parents pal. the system is there for anyone with the desire to make use of it.

[GuestHouse]

its the failings of the students and their parents

Yet more Derogatory Generalisations..

[AYJAYDEE]

its the failings of the students and their parents

Yet more Derogatory Generalisations..

well it aint the school system and that only leaves them.

[GuestHouse]

its the failings of the students and their parents

Yet more Derogatory Generalisations..

well it aint the school system and that only leaves them.

And to complement your false logic and recourse to derogatory generalisations you round off with a circular argument.

[AYJAYDEE]

its the failings of the students and their parents

Yet more Derogatory Generalisations..

well it aint the school system and that only leaves them.

And to complement your false logic and recourse to derogatory generalisations you round off with a circular argument.

no circular argument there pal. the system works fine , produces plenty of successful graduates. if some dont measure up, its their problem not the system's. some parents just can't admit it I guess. easier to claim it's someone else's fault. its quite common these days.

[hotsoup]

AYJAYDEE,,,,,,,,,could you please just SHUT UP????? and let me see if anyone has something generalised or not to offer as an opinion???????

[Thai at Heart]

Well. Another day! I did not think I was opening up such a can of worms!

I have to repeat: the reasons that they go/went to local Thai schools are (they are luk khreung..I see no reason for them to not have the best of the cultures into which they have been born)

1. They learn to read and write Thai. They have friends from what is basically their Jangwat

2. We have chosen where to live in Thailand. Based on pretty calculated decisions. Family, quality of life, cost of

land and property, absence of pollution and traffic jams! The older children are multilingual and multicultural. They live on their own. Well qualified, they have chosen, so far, not to leave; though they could. Why have they changed their minds?

I do not know.....Its a sort of "Thailand?": been there, done that, maybe

I wonder how many posters have spent time recently in the UK and France? With children in school.

I think:

All cultures have a tendency to be 'narrow'and conformity in Thailand comes high on that list!

I am thoroughly opposed to so called 'international schools' I think the UK schools here and in Malaysia/Singapore are just in it for the money. Of course a certain 'kudos' attaches to those who have attended them. My sister

and I went to some of the most prestigious schools and universities in the UK and the US and France. You know...

Wycombe Abbey, Oxford, Yale.Learned pretty well nothing. We were never listened to; just sent off to be processed like peas.My sister does home schooling. She says I will never send my children away to endure what we had to. She is very keen on governesses! Difficult to find here! Thais either too rich or too idle! We found a lady willing to teach my daughter Japanese. All went well; but after 2 months...sorry I do not have the time..I need to be in the temple every day.........

Sorry all very domestic and boring,,but some insights into daily living in LOS!!

What jobs are the eldest two doing? Are they working for MNCs in Bangkok or are they farangs working for Thai wages?

[AYJAYDEE]

AYJAYDEE,,,,,,,,,could you please just SHUT UP????? and let me see if anyone has something generalised or not to offer as an opinion???????

no

[hotsoup]

AYJAYDEE,,,,,,,,,could you please just SHUT UP????? and let me see if anyone has something generalised or not to offer as an opinion???????

no

Charming remark! And I thought from other posts you were a relatively normal human being! Goes to show TV cannot be trusted. I am overwhelmed by the strength of your free spirit! Take care of yourself. My wife has pointed out that it is precisely because of attitudes like yours that Thais are not particularly enamored of westerners !! More rain, but Laos looking particularly cloudy and lovely today. Lifts the spirit

[AYJAYDEE]

AYJAYDEE,,,,,,,,,could you please just SHUT UP????? and let me see if anyone has something generalised or not to offer as an opinion???????

no

Charming remark! And I thought from other posts you were a relatively normal human being! Goes to show TV cannot be trusted. I am overwhelmed by the strength of your free spirit! Take care of yourself. My wife has pointed out that it is precisely because of attitudes like yours that Thais are not particularly enamored of westerners !! More rain, but Laos looking particularly cloudy and lovely today. Lifts the spirit

youre new here so I'll just take this opportunity to caution you against personal attacks

[benalibina]

AYJAYDEE,,,,,,,,,could you please just SHUT UP????? and let me see if anyone has something generalised or not to offer as an opinion???????

no

Charming remark! And I thought from other posts you were a relatively normal human being! Goes to show TV cannot be trusted. I am overwhelmed by the strength of your free spirit! Take care of yourself. My wife has pointed out that it is precisely because of attitudes like yours that Thais are not particularly enamored of westerners !! More rain, but Laos looking particularly cloudy and lovely today. Lifts the spirit

youre new here so I'll just take this opportunity to caution you against personal attacks

He might be new here but certainly not alone trying to figure out what is the best thing to, and thus seeking input from members of this forum. It must be clear now for him, who sincerely tries to give him helpfull input.

OP, you are the parent and these decisions to make are not easy. Many things to consider. Maybe too many. Give it some time, talk it over with your wife, listen to your kids. Be the father, in this, you wanted to have.

[sipi]

Hi HotSoup. The only constructive criticism I can offer is observing my nephews' and nieces' homework. They are in the early teens, and their mathematics (algebra, trigonometry etc) seems miles ahead of anything compared to their age group in Australia. Basically they seem very well educated for their years.