Dual-pricing is scaring tourists away: Thai editorial

Tatsujin · September 4, 2014

Thailand . . . you might want to make a start now on actually "welcoming" foreigners here, rather than simply tolerating them cos of the cash they bring in.

Yes, and perhaps coming up with a less offensive term for visitors.

Apparently, it's not an offensive term . . . and (as a previous discussion on here showed), many foreigners don't find it offensive either. Much comes down to the "tone" and "how" it's used tho . . .

NoshowJones · September 4, 2014

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

If that is the case then you are right, but what if a Farang, say from the UK has a bad accident or becomes seriously ill while in Thailand, he/she will be hit by astronomical hospital fees, while if the same thing happens to a Thai in the UK, they will get hospital treatment free.

GAZZPA · September 4, 2014

The tourist is not staying away due to dual pricing and will not return if this practice is stopped. The problem is more complex and needs a proper scientific study to determine the reasons and how to address it. At present most of SEA is suffering a decline in tourism and needs to be addressed as a regional problem. At present a major Chinese travel agency is offering 30% discounts for Thailand tours and is still not making headway, why?
Sometimes you can just overthink a problem,,
- political instability

- safety

- dual pricing

- unsafe travelling

- rip off culture

How many scientists do you need?

All of that has been part of Thailand for ever and the tourist still came.

And tourists are still coming today, just in lower numbers, tourists have always been coming and always been going up and down.

Unfortunately nowadays we have much easier access to information from anywhere in the world and it is easy to do some amateur detective work on your chosen holiday destination. This is a major difference of days gone by.

There seems to be a distinct xenophobia in Thailand right now, perhaps it has always been there but it is becoming more apparent for sure. Scientists can do all the research they want but in my experience if you commonly see an opinion being shared amongst people then that will generally be the flavour of how people feel. In this case people are sick of dual pricing and the general treatment of foreigners. Do the research I suspect you will find the same result.

chotthee · September 4, 2014

Do Thais pay more to visit the London Eye or Disney World?

YES. Thais pay more. Read this.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/florida-residents/validation-requirements/

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/florida-residents/

Sama same.

Farang price = Full price.

Thai price = Promotional Discount price.

Edited September 4, 2014 by chotthee

willyumiii · September 4, 2014

I agree.

It is not that paying 100-200 baht more for something will break foreigners...

It is the insult of being treated poorly and being abused by Thai people.

For some unfounded reason, Thais feel they are better than anyone from anywhere other than Thailand.

This fantasy leads them to believe that they are justified and even obligated to take advantage of and abuse others who choose to visit and live here.

I believe it is refered to as xenophobia.

The belief that others are not as good as your own people.

What this is founded on, I can not imagine.

What have Thais invented or brought forth that benefits the human race and makes them better than the rest of the worlds people?

I can think of nothing.

They simply live off the inventiveness and creativity of people from other countries!

It is not the money that puts tourist off, it is the rude and disrespectful attitude of Thais to anyone not Thai that makes people not want to come here once they know how Thais think of them.

I am not a tourist, I live here.

I refuse to take part in anything that charges on a double tiered scale.

If I can not pay the same as other Thai residents...they can shove it!

everett kendall · September 4, 2014

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

OK I would agree with this IF...

Thai in Falang land could not buy land. (Thai can buy as much land as they can afford in Falang land)

Thai in Falang land could not have some jobs, as those would be only for Falang. (Thai in Falang land can can have any job or start their own business)

Thai in Falang land that is retired can not get work permit. (Thai retired or not can work no law against this)

Thai in Falang land has to report to immigration every 3 months. (Thai in Falang has a long stay visa no reporting)

Seems fair enough...

NoshowJones · September 4, 2014

Just don't go to these places or use places that dual charge. Only way it will stop

The Thai logic would be that if Farangs boycotted these places, they would just put the prices up for Thais rather than charge Farangs the same price.

BangkokHank · September 4, 2014

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting $25.00

Senior Resident Hunting $7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting $315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

This is not an apples to apples comparison. In this case a distinction is made between Texas residents - and non-residents. Presumably a Thai could become a resident of Texas and thereby qualify for the resident rate. I have been living in Thailand for 19 years, most of that time as a tax-paying employee, yet I still don't qualify for the local prices. I will always be an (overcharged) alien in Thailand - no matter how long I live here.

A related anecdote: In my early days in Thailand, I once took a trip to Lopburi with my then Thai teacher and a group of six of her friends. At our destination, our group wished to enter a temple, for which the entrance fee was 10 baht for Thais and 30 baht for foreigners. My first thought was that the Thais who were traveling with me would feel so ashamed of this discriminatory policy that they would huddle together and agree to pay the entrance fee for me - especially considering that I had just bought lunch for the lot of them. Instead, they all entered the temple - and laughed at the idiot farang standing outside of the temple all by himself - stupid enough to think that he should pay the same price as Thais. It was at this point that I learned that Thais don't share our western logic or principles.

Incidentally, for that same trip, we had rented a van with ten seats, but three of the seats were unable to be filled. My Thai teacher asked me if i would pay for the empty seats (so that each Thai would pay 1/10th of the total, but I would pay 4/10ths.), rather than dividing the total cost among the seven people present. Such expectations shed a lot of light on the mentality of Thais, and suggest to me that nothing is going to be done about this practice of dual pricing. Thais simply don't see overcharging farangs to be a problem.

Tomtomtom69 · September 4, 2014

Politics is scaring tourist away not dual pricing. Tourism numbers have been going up every year in Thailand and dual pricing has no influence on this. The only reason the numbers are down this year is because of politics.

I can just as easily claim that the 2 inch floor toilets are also causing tourist to avoid Thailand because westerners don't know how to squat over the toilet without getting their pants wet. Tourism statistics for 2014 can support this argument. In fact, why not throw in, Thai food is too spicy and tourist are going elsewhere because of it. Or maybe, toilet paper being installed backwards in hotels and guest houses across Thailand are causing tourist go go elsewhere. This year would be a great year to come up with off the wall reasons why tourist numbers are low.

However, the reality is, politics and the coup have people worried about security and this year only, they choose other destinations for their holiday. Next year, if the political situation is calmer, things will return to normal.

I think dual pricing IS scaring away quite a few informed visitors but the issue is that many tourists (most probably) are not very well informed and will not even be aware they are being discriminated against. This is particularly true of first time visitors. Then there are those visitors that never visit a tourist site that charges different rates for foreigners vs locals, not so much because they are deliberating avoiding the chance to be charged more, but rather because they are not interested in those sites. Instead, these visitors simply come to Bangkok for 4 days of shopping (and that's it) and/or they go to Krabi or Samui and lie on the beach, never setting foot inside a temple or national park. Yes, there are plenty of tourists who DON'T visit typical tourist sites.

For example, end of last year and this year was the first time in over 5 years that I visited a Thai national park or tourist temple and that's only because my family was in town. Therefore there were no opportunities in the previous 5 years to try to charge me more basically because I never visited those kinds of places.

Of course, on an everyday level, taxi drivers, small mom and pop stores etc. may try to get an extra buck or two out of a tourist. These incidents, which involve everyday encounters with ordinary local people often leave more of a bad impression simply because it's far more likely that a tourist will have to catch a cab (and therefore encounter a rogue driver who tries to rip them off) than a tourist who decides to visit a touristy temple like say Wat Phra Kaew. No one has to go to a touristy temple if they don't want to, but unless you decide to walk, ride a bicycle or rent a car, it's highly probable you'll need to catch a taxi at some point in your Bangkok travels as a tourist.

However, it's important to separate government mandated dual pricing (which is discriminatory) and opportunistic pricing, where a local cabbie or someone tries to exploit someone (in this case a foreigner) based on the perception of how much they can make from them. Although the former practice is still unfortunately in place in Thailand, I highly doubt the latter practice is government sanctioned. In fact, the NCPO has been actively trying to clean up such practices in places like Phuket where a taxi mafia operates, but I have not seen or heard of one attempt to stop the practice of charging foreigners more at tourist sites. I think the next step for the NCPO is to stop this practice and maybe, just maybe they'll surprise us all (in a good way) and declare an end to this nonsense. This article is therefore a good start, but more work needs to be done.

HUAHIN62 · September 4, 2014

The tourist is not staying away due to dual pricing and will not return if this practice is stopped. The problem is more complex and needs a proper scientific study to determine the reasons and how to address it. At present most of SEA is suffering a decline in tourism and needs to be addressed as a regional problem. At present a major Chinese travel agency is offering 30% discounts for Thailand tours and is still not making headway, why?
Sometimes you can just overthink a problem,,
- political instability

- safety

- dual pricing

- unsafe travelling

- rip off culture

How many scientists do you need?

All of that has been part of Thailand for ever and the tourist still came.

And tourists are still coming today, just in lower numbers, tourists have always been coming and always been going up and down.
Unfortunately nowadays we have much easier access to information from anywhere in the world and it is easy to do some amateur detective work on your chosen holiday destination. This is a major difference of days gone by.

There seems to be a distinct xenophobia in Thailand right now, perhaps it has always been there but it is becoming more apparent for sure. Scientists can do all the research they want but in my experience if you commonly see an opinion being shared amongst people then that will generally be the flavour of how people feel. In this case people are sick of dual pricing and the general treatment of foreigners. Do the research I suspect you will find the same result.

Thats your view and you the right to it. But why is tourism in Malaysia, singapore and Vietnam also declining at the same time as Thailand's. To plan the future of tourism in the country one needs hard facts and not base plans on personal views and perceptions.

Faiza Hussain · September 4, 2014

Well said, Everett Kendal.

NoshowJones · September 4, 2014

While overcharging tourist and ex-pats is a national disgrace...IMO it is not what is keeping tourist away...me thinks the numbers of foreigners who come to Thailand for a good time...and end up dead...carries a lot more weight with travelers...

When the Thai police call almost every foreign death...a suicide...foreigners stabbing themselves to death...leaping from condos and hotels...strangling themselves with their own hands...and cutting off their own heads...well...you can imagine peoples reaction in a civil society...

Tourist are not as safe here as in other countries...more than twice as many Aussies die while traveling or residing in Thailand...than any other country they visit...

Your last paragraph, if that is true, surely there must be a reason. I can't think of one, as any Australian I have met has always been sociable and helpful.

phuketlive · September 4, 2014

Farang= big money, most people think we are rich.

Especially seeing how much people spend on holidays, they dont know the cost of life in our country but when you explain them, they realize you are not that rich in the end...

Many people save money to have a good time here so it makes us look like we have plenty of money.

It does not shock people to overcharge foreigners.

My ex thai girlfriend is overcharged in her village when she goes buy food, they know she has farang boyfriend...

She's angry to see that even her own people want to rip her off so she sends her son to buy sum tam...

Crazy mentality about money.

Varangkul · September 4, 2014

One of the problems is that you don't know about the pricing differential until you get there, and it can be huge for families of 4 or 6 adults. I am not anti local discount pricing but the levels of difference can be alarming. I guess I am really saying the foreign prices are too high often not that they should not be applied.

Agreed. X2 wouldn't be so bad, but in national parks it's usually X10.

My stepson took me, along with his mother and wife to a NP. On approaching he told me say to the kiosk, "Pom Pen Kon Thai," As soon as we came alongside the kiosk, I called out "Pom Pen Kon Thai." The attendant burst into laughter and waved us through - no Farang charge!!

crisbat · September 4, 2014

If your not Thai you must pay more

its not the act of doing this that's the problem, its the mindset that says its correct to do so.

I can imagine many Thais honestly saying "Why not ?"

Dual pricing is just another facet of the racial discrimination that seems to be woven into the fabric of "Thainess".

Dual pricing is also against section 30 of thai constitution B.E. 2550

MartinL · September 4, 2014

... they all entered the temple - and laughed at the idiot farang standing outside of the temple all by himself - stupid enough to think that he should pay the same price as Thais. It was at this point that I learned that Thais don't share our western logic or principles.

... My Thai teacher asked me if i would pay for the empty seats (so that each Thai would pay 1/10th of the total, but I would pay 4/10ths.), rather than dividing the total cost among the seven people present. Such expectations shed a lot of light on the mentality of Thais, and suggest to me that nothing is going to be done about this practice of dual pricing. Thais simply don't see overcharging farangs to be a problem.

Was this incident part of the reason you changed teachers? If so, was your teacher aware of your reasons for changing & what was her reaction?

Time Traveller · September 4, 2014

They didn't mention the most glaring example of all: the aquarium at Centralworld. I guess they don't want to offend their advertisers.

Do you mean at paragon shopping center? It's actually owned by a foreign company also, so this just amounts to extortion.

The most laughable places for dual prices are the national parks. Some charge 10 times the price a thai would pay for what is little more than an overcrowded garbage dump in a forest.

Seriously thai parks are so disgusting I wonder why any foreigner would bother visiting one. USA, Canada, Australia, NZ all much better places to visit real national parks and better value also.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Time Traveller

GAZZPA · September 4, 2014

The lack of tourists is absolutely nothing to do with dual pricing.

it is a series on contributing factors that are causing tourism to drop. This is actually a very bad scenario, if it were just a single reason it is easier to fix.

I think that the continual push against foreigners, political instability, publicity about scams, bad roads and difficult transport AND dual pricing to name just a few is what is causing the problems. How many bad points can 1 country take before people decide to stay away?

If Thailand did not have good weather for a chunk of the year there would be no one here..

Kasset Tak · September 4, 2014

I pay THB160(AU$5.50) for a shave and a haircut and tip up to THB200($AU6.90). There's no way I'll object to paying more than Thais, a haircut alone in Australia will cost me $12-$20. Builds up goodwill, too. After a few visits I'm recognised as a good customer and offered free manicures, pedicures and ear cleanings. The whole thing leads to a much better atmosphere in what is, after all, a pretty mundane but necessary part of the day.

180 Baht!!! That's a ripoff! I pay 50-60 Baht depending on where I go but and usually I leave the change as tip.

Tomtomtom69 · September 4, 2014

Perhaps one of the most heinous aspects of this dual pricing is in the National Park system, or at the tourist attractions, like Wat Po, and the temples in Bangkok. There is actually a law on the books, whereby an expat, who can show a drivers license, or other proof of living here, can enjoy the same price a Thai person enjoys as an entrance fee. The only problem, is that nobody that works for the park system has ever been told about it, and it they have been told, they pretend not to know, or they do not care. I have been in some pretty major argument with park employees, when they charge my girlfriend 20 baht, and attempt to charge me 200 baht. It is positively heinous. Thailand needs to do something about this. It is one thing to make us feel unwelcome on many other levels, but this is such an exaggerated version of that. To be treated as a tourist after you have been living here for a decade? What is up with that?

Yes I have been in the same unfortunate situation. Sukhothai Historical park, just before New Year's 2013 (December 31st). Entrance price for foreigners - 100 baht. Locals? 20 Baht. I brought my Thai driver's license and just in case that wasn't enough, my Thai work permit. Spoke to the ticket lady (in my fluent Thai) and she replied in Thai of course: "I would love to give you a discounted local ticket, but the ticket inspector won't accept it". Yeah right, what a lame excuse, like the ticket "inspector" below, who doesn't even look at the tickets would force me to go back and pay the difference for a foreigner ticket IF I had a local's ticket in my hand. It was just a racist excuse to charge me more, despite working in Thailand and paying taxes. It was up to her to sell me a ticket at whatever price she could get, not anyone else. However, she tried to pass the buck onto someone else. I came into the office with my family and of course wasn't expecting them to obtain any discounts as they don't live in Thailand. However, the extra 80 Baht my dad had to pay for me gave me quite a bad impression. Even more so when I saw families of Thais driving their cars into the park (like they wouldn't be able to afford to pay 100 Baht each themselves if they had enough money to purchase an overpriced Vigo or Camry) but the vast majority of foreigners, except my family (I had just bought a new car then) and a Chinese family who had driven their car down from Kunming visited the park using cheap public transport. In effect, these foreigners appeared to be "poorer" than the Thais since they didn't arrive by car.

That was the first time I had experienced such dual pricing in more than 5 years, since at some smaller temples in Ayuttaya etc. where I went previously they would always accept my Thai driver's licence to get out of paying the 20 Baht entrance fee. Same story up in Chiang Mai somewhere where I was able to get out of paying 50 Baht.

The strangest incident was at the Emerald pool in Krabi. Was told by the guys at the car park that foreigners with a Thai driver's licence get in for the Thai price of 40 Baht. However at the ticketing office they refused to take a Thai licence and my girlfriend (along with the other Thai students in my group) had to fork out 200 Baht for me.

GuestHouse · September 4, 2014

The bigger issue is that dual pricing now extends into the health sector, where it inevitably becomes a barrier to foreigners in Thailand seeking medical care.

Thai at Heart · September 4, 2014

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting

$25.00

Senior Resident Hunting

$7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting

$315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

Big difference between private business and government implementing the price difference. One is funded by public money, one is not.

Someone should set up a dual pricing Facebook page to publicise it.

Kabula · September 4, 2014

If your not Thai you must pay more

its not the act of doing this that's the problem, its the mindset that says its correct to do so.

I can imagine many Thais honestly saying "Why not ?"

Not true.

If you speak a little Thai, smile and say no, then negotiate down, I often get the same price.

It is easier if you have been here for awhile or a senior and they recognize you.

If you have an attitude and low ball them that is always a problem.

Many times just walk away and pause and they will at times bring the price down to a Thai price.

If buying high priced items check prices on line, then have a Thai person do the shopping for you, but be aware a built in commission may be structured in the final price.

The current economy is currently weak with off season. More unemployment and many new changes.

Prices have been going up and some think it is a tourist price. Not necessarily.

The key is to sit back and watch what a Thai person pays then you have a level playing field. Tell them that price is what you always pay!

Tell them you have been here for years, have a retirement extension, teach their children, show them a Thai drivers license if you have one.

Convince them it is not wise to over charge a repeat customer.

Most importantly, tell him a piece of the pie is better than no pie and you are a repeat customer.

There are many other shops to shop from. The further away from the tourists areas, the better the price.

Tomtomtom69 · September 4, 2014

I pay THB160(AU$5.50) for a shave and a haircut and tip up to THB200($AU6.90). There's no way I'll object to paying more than Thais, a haircut alone in Australia will cost me $12-$20. Builds up goodwill, too. After a few visits I'm recognised as a good customer and offered free manicures, pedicures and ear cleanings. The whole thing leads to a much better atmosphere in what is, after all, a pretty mundane but necessary part of the day.
180 Baht!!! That's a ripoff! I pay 50-60 Baht depending on where I go but and usually I leave the change as tip.

Haha yeah the guy is paying more for a haircut in Thailand than what you pay in Australia and he chooses to do so! In Aus, you usually pay like $10 or $12 for a cheap "man cut" at Chinese hairdressers or at the Greek guy who has been cutting hair for the past 50 years. Students and seniors (pensioners in Australia) also get discounts usually without having to show ID.

Any reasonable person either asks the price of a haircut first, or more likely it's written on the glass when you come in. I usually get my hair cut at the various salons, which charge either 100 Baht or 120 Baht (including washing), which is written on the glass door. No tips are given or are necessary. Only in America do customers tip for haircuts. 40 Baht is all I pay at some hole-in-the-wall hairdressers up country, but for that price you get a grimy salon with no air-conditioning and no hair washing.

trogers · September 4, 2014

The tourist is not staying away due to dual pricing and will not return if this practice is stopped. The problem is more complex and needs a proper scientific study to determine the reasons and how to address it. At present most of SEA is suffering a decline in tourism and needs to be addressed as a regional problem. At present a major Chinese travel agency is offering 30% discounts for Thailand tours and is still not making headway, why?

Credit crunch in China, stock and real estate values falling, and unemployment rising.

HiSoLowSoNoSo · September 4, 2014

ridiculous only in Thailand you have price for Thai Peoples and price for Farang if you go some restaurant you Have Thai menu and English Menu if you look on Thai menu its not the same Price same on Thai Website for booking room same more expensive English Website so i can speak Thai so when i go buy a shirt a save more money then peoples don't speak Thai

A couple of times I have asked in restaurants why the prices are different in English Menu compared to the Thai Menu, their facial expression when they understand that the Farang customer can read Thai is priceless.

I have heard of this practice, but can you name some restaurants, or if they don't have a name, at least some locations where this practice occurs?

Because I have never been to a restaurant where there are two different menus with two sets of prices in Thailand, to the best of my knowledge. The vast majority of restaurants in Thailand with English menus have menus which are bilingual (English-Thai or sometimes even English-Thai-Japanese or English-Thai-Chinese etc.) on the same menu. Rarely is one offered a separate English only menu (except at places like Sizzler although being an international corporation there is no dual pricing there of course!)

BTW I am also fluent in Thai. My feeling is the only restaurants which may do this are hole-in-the-wall places in such touristy locations near Wat Pho, Wat Phra Kaew etc. but it's not like I would ever eat there. Personally, except when I eat at home I almost only eat at chain restaurants these days, nothing to do with worries about dual pricing but I don't like the taste or quality of food at such hole in the wall places and I'm worried about getting sick. Chain restaurants like Fuji, Sizzler, Ichiban Ramen etc. are predictable in terms of quality, price and taste. The only exceptions would be say famous independent seafood restaurants (which are usually quite pricey) and independent western restaurants, which again don't have such concerns either.

During the last 30 years I have been to many restaurants with both a Thai Menu and a English Menu with different prices printed, never happened at a western run restaurang or big chain restaurant, mostly indepenent smaller and some times at bigger seafood restaurants on Phuket's East coast.

gemini81 · September 4, 2014

Boycotting is the key, otherwise you're just encouraging it. At restrooms charging more for tourists, pee on a tree behind the facility, like a taxi driver would do. Eat street food. Lots for tourists to enjoy without getting scammed on dual prices.....

culicine · September 4, 2014

Posting such as this should be in the foreign press - overseas. I doubt most new tourists are even aware of double pricing. Once they realise, they may have second thoughts about returning to Thailand for a second holiday. Many will see it as a one-off opportunity, so will pay anyway, even if it's more than the locals. What I disagree with is that tax paying expats are also often slugged with higher fees. Surely our taxes go towards the upkeep of these places. I once refused to enter a place in Ratchaburi as they wanted to overcharge - and took my family of 10 Thais away with me their loss.

Kabula · September 4, 2014

Likener1, on 04 Sept 2014 - 06:20, said:

If your not Thai you must pay more