Woman beheaded in London attack

[7by7]

Was this beheading in the OP a part of Jihad ?

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

Read the actual reports of this horrendous crime; any report.

Even the ultra right wing press have been unable to find any evidence which would allow them to blame this murder on Salvador's religious beliefs; whatever they are.

But the word 'Muslim' appeared in reports; and that's enough for the sheeple here.

BTW, it's off topic; but much has been made by certain people of the prophet Mohammed having sex with a 9 year old girl.

Of course, these days we, rightfully, consider such to be a terrible thing; but at the time it was commonplace.

For example, Margaret Beaufort was just 13 when she gave birth to the future king Henry VII of England in 1457. Henry's father, Margaret's second husband (yes, just 13 years old and on her second marriage!), Edmund Tudor, was 25.

Before the accusations fly, I am not apologising for nor excusing child brides and sex with children; simply pointing out that it was common at the time; everywhere.

Edited September 10, 2014 by 7by7

[simple1]

No matter what you say I do not concur that the majority of today's Muslims support the terrorism / barbarism carried out in the name of Islam.

I agree the majority of Muslims don't support barbaric acts. However, their holiest book preaches it (it becomes a LAW), and by not speaking out dynamically against it, the moderates are tacitly approving it. Moderates need to dynamically try to shut down extremists. Is there 'excommunication' in Islam? For a start: Mothers, wives, sisters, daughters should completely cut off support and succor for any extremists in their families.

Personal example: a farang former-buddy of mine, middle aged who I'd known for over 2 decades and we have a lot of friends in common: When he came to reside in Thailand, he got regressively more screwed up to where he would borrow money (from every Thai and farang he could) and never pay back. He also knowingly spread venereal disease to girls and did other dastardly things. I formally de-friended him: I went to every person who knew us, and made a statement: 'he is no longer my friend, and I encourage you to have nothing to do with him.' I don't know where he is now, but thankfully he left town.

If moderate Muslims could start speaking out dynamically (maybe even take tangible action), then that might have an effect on the overall degenerating situation. By turning the other way (or making endless excuses) they're tacitly condoning it.

As far as I know the Christian concept of 'excommunication' does not exist in Islam.

There are many that believe the current escalation in radicalisation primarily resides, at least in Western countries, within the second generation. I know people will respond by saying your are an 'apologist', but what are the reasons they turn away from their homeland society. Can't be just some Imam / extremist ranting on YouTube; has to be a reason/s why they were alienated & turned to these extremist messages in the first place.

One reads numerous accounts that most of those who are truly radicalised keep very quiet about their beliefs / intentions, so don't know how your example would apply. On the other hand the Head of Intelligence (ASIO), as reported in the Australian media (I'm currently in Australia), has received good co-operation from Muslim Moderate organisations or individuals where someone has come to their attention for supporting actual or potential Islamic extremist intent.

You do read about the voices of Moderate Islam, they are nearly always shouted down by people saying there is not such person as an Islamic Moderate, you're a Muslim QED. Really no different to what some people post on TV.

Have a look at the overview written by Rand Corporation, an organisation I personally respect. Although it's a bit out of date, still somewhat relevant, on Moderate & Radical Islam at the URL below.

A quote:

What accounts for the influence of radicals in what is essentially a war of ideas within the Muslim world. As scholars such as Hillel Fradkin have noted, this understanding conforms to that of Islamist terrorists themselves, for they declare that their enemies are both Muslims and non-Muslims, the “near enemy” and the “far enemy,” the former being apostates and agents of the latter.

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/testimonies/2005/RAND_CT251.pdf

[Steely Dan]

Was this beheading in the OP a part of Jihad ?

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

Read the actual reports of this horrendous crime; any report.

Even the ultra right wing press have been unable to find any evidence which would allow them to blame this murder on Salvador's religious beliefs; whatever they are.

But the word 'Muslim' appeared in reports; and that's enough for the sheeple here.

BTW, it's off topic; but much has been made by certain people of the prophet Mohammed having sex with a 9 year old girl.

Of course, these days we, rightfully, consider such to be a terrible thing; but at the time it was commonplace.

For example, Margaret Beaufort was just 13 when she gave birth to the future king Henry VII of England in 1457. Henry's father, Margaret's second husband (yes, just 13 years old and on her second marriage!), Edmund Tudor, was 25.

Before the accusations fly, I am not apologising for nor excusing child brides and sex with children; simply pointing out that it was common at the time; everywhere.

I think you are about 180 miles off topic as the crow flies from Rotherham, but I shall briefly address your point. It is only fair that someone is judged using the optic of what was normal or commonplace in the time they lived. The trouble is that Islam portrays Mohammad as the perfect man living the perfect life. Now your much used 'tiny minority' mIght use the life of Mohammad as their moral and behavioral guide in the UK in 2014. It's a good thing that things do move on or Henry VII would have been taken away by social services.

[lovelaos]

The more details emerge, the more it becomes obvious that Salvadore's religious beliefs, whatever they are, had nothing to do with his motives for carrying out this horrendous murder.

Come on. He may indeed be a lunatic - a lot of Islamic radicals are - but if he is indeed a Muslim convert, it is pretty obvious why he is going around beheading infidels. He also tried to attack a couple that got away.

Details have begun to emerge about the man arrested for the murder of a great grandmother beheaded in her back garden.

He was named locally as Nicholas Salvadore, a 25-year-old would-be cage fighter who is believed to be a Muslim convert, who had been living a few doors from 82-year-old Palmira Silva.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

The Evening Standard's weasel words "is believed to be" are only surpassed by your non sequitur "it's pretty obvious that". This whole thread about a psychopath's murder has been allowed to turn into a Muslim hatefest by the usual culprits. If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

This site isn't based in the U.K. That's why we are still allowed our freedom of speech.

Good luck to you being friends with the Jihadists when civil war breaks out.

[soihok]

In northern Iraq, numerous people were put to death as ISIS swept through the area. Shia, unacceptable Sunni, Christians, etc., were put to the sword or bullet. The thing is, most of the killing was done by neighbors, by people they had known all their lives. You have as little idea what the nature of this act was, nor do I. But the thread has value as people worry. People worry for a very good reason. People worry because all the voices screaming "Look at me, I am Peace... I am moderate" does not reconcile with our daily observations of genocide throughout the world.

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-kurds-sunnis-20140908-story.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/13/world/meast/iraq-mountain-yazidi-refugees/

The same observation applies to the Serbs and other non Muslims in the Former Yugoslavia who murdered, raped, tortured, forced sexual slavery, ethnic cleansed their Muslims neighbours who they had known for generations. Without the eventual decisive NATO intervention these maniacs would not have stopped their crimes against humanity.

Serbs, probably the quiet majority, did not support the atrocities in their name by extremists, just as within the Islamic world. No matter what you say I do not concur that the majority of today's Muslims support the terrorism / barbarism carried out in the name of Islam

We can live in hope.

Do you "hope" the sun will rise tomorrow or do you believe, with reasonable certainty, that it will rise tomorrow because it always has in the past? I hope my dog doesn't piss the carpet. I hope my check arrives on time. I hope the rains are not too heavy. I hope that Islam doesn't continue escalating and destroying every single thing I hold dear and cherish. I think no; I can't bring myself to apply "hope" to something of this magnitude.

If the dog pees, the check is late, and the floods come- we can survive. No one survives jihad unless they willfully offer themselves to slavery. This requires action.

I hope I can buy you a beer one day and help you to chill out.

[7by7]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software.

BTW, it's off topic; but much has been made by certain people of the prophet Mohammed having sex with a 9 year old girl..........

I think you are about 180 miles off topic as the crow flies from Rotherham.........

Merely addressing a point raised in this topic by your mate.

<snip>
there is only Islam founded by a brutal deceptive warlord and a child rapist........

Notice that you didn't chastise him for going off topic!

I will post more on this in the appropriate topic.

[arjunadawn]

The more details emerge, the more it becomes obvious that Salvadore's religious beliefs, whatever they are, had nothing to do with his motives for carrying out this horrendous murder.

Come on. He may indeed be a lunatic - a lot of Islamic radicals are - but if he is indeed a Muslim convert, it is pretty obvious why he is going around beheading infidels. He also tried to attack a couple that got away.

Details have begun to emerge about the man arrested for the murder of a great grandmother beheaded in her back garden.

He was named locally as Nicholas Salvadore, a 25-year-old would-be cage fighter who is believed to be a Muslim convert, who had been living a few doors from 82-year-old Palmira Silva.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-beheaded-first-picture-of-muslim-convert-nicknamed-fat-nick-suspected-of-murdering-82yearold-9714057.html

The Evening Standard's weasel words "is believed to be" are only surpassed by your non sequitur "it's pretty obvious that". This whole thread about a psychopath's murder has been allowed to turn into a Muslim hatefest by the usual culprits. If this site is based in UK it should be prosecuted for wantonly stirring racial/religionist hatred.

This site isn't based in the U.K. That's why we are still allowed our freedom of speech.

Good luck to you being friends with the Jihadists when civil war breaks out.

Also, there is no "non sequitur" here. "If," as his predicate, does indeed allow a reasonable "therefore" that is why the beheadings occurred. Do people just go down a "You too can Learn Latin" list and he was up to "N" in the list?

[arjunadawn]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software.

BTW, it's off topic; but much has been made by certain people of the prophet Mohammed having sex with a 9 year old girl..........

I think you are about 180 miles off topic as the crow flies from Rotherham.........

Merely addressing a point raised in this topic by your mate.

<snip>

there is only Islam founded by a brutal deceptive warlord and a child rapist........

Notice that you didn't chastise him for going off topic!

I will post more on this in the appropriate topic.

It is off topic. If someone wants to start a topic about "The Recent Invention of Mohammed having Sex with a 9 year Old (now pubescent) Girl" (as historically, it is widely known others had to constantly "clean his clothes and sheets of semen" after marrying the 6 year old, and the subsequent embarrassment this has caused in the modern age), then I would be pleased to offer input on that Thread. Lets try and stay focused on beheadings, that defining characteristic that is not unique to Islam, but perfected in its care (except the bumbling ISIS clowns).

[7by7]

I do not have to 'admit' that he murdered her! I have never denied it.

But you DID deny he intended to cut her head off (even though he did) as that would have meant he was probably inspired by his Islamic faith,and you can't accept that can you..

I said that the evidence suggests that Mrs Siva's decapitation was the result of a frenzied attack; not a deliberate act.

I notice that none of you have commented on the other recent murders in the UK involving the victim being beheaded which I linked to earlier.

Doubtless because you can't find any way, even in your minds, to link them to Islamic jihadists!

[7by7]

<snip>

I repeat; if it turns out that you are all right that he was a Muslim fanatic looking for a non Muslim to kill as a symbolic statement of some kind, I will publicly eat as much humble pie as you require.

If the opposite is true and, as the evidence and police statements suggest, this vicious killing had nothing to do with Salvador's religion; will you all do the same?

Care to answer; it's not that difficult a question.

Apparently it is too difficult a question for the Islamaphobes to answer!

No need to wonder why.

As my dear, departed Mum would say; "All mouth and no trousers"

Edited September 10, 2014 by 7by7

[transam]

I do not have to 'admit' that he murdered her! I have never denied it.

But you DID deny he intended to cut her head off (even though he did) as that would have meant he was probably inspired by his Islamic faith,and you can't accept that can you..

I said that the evidence suggests that Mrs Siva's decapitation was the result of a frenzied attack; not a deliberate act.

I notice that none of you have commented on the other recent murders in the UK involving the victim being beheaded which I linked to earlier.

Doubtless because you can't find any way, even in your minds, to link them to Islamic jihadists!

Not a deliberate attack... , think if l wanted to chop the head off an old lady l would be in a state of frenzy and deliberate, perhaps you are different eh.........

[Ulysses G.]

I do not have to 'admit' that he murdered her! I have never denied it.

But you DID deny he intended to cut her head off (even though he did) as that would have meant he was probably inspired by his Islamic faith,and you can't accept that can you..

Yes he did deny that the Muslim intended to cut her head off and now he is trying to divert attention elsewhere, because it was such a silly remark.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I do not have to 'admit' that he murdered her! I have never denied it.

But you DID deny he intended to cut her head off (even though he did) as that would have meant he was probably inspired by his Islamic faith,and you can't accept that can you..

I said that the evidence suggests that Mrs Siva's decapitation was the result of a frenzied attack; not a deliberate act.

More like a frenzied attack that was done deliberately. Yet another radical Muslim goes amok.

[Albertosez]

How long will it be before a Muslim is beheaded on the streets in retaliation ?

I think we are fast approaching that time -IMO. What a terrible day that will be when we start an " eye for eye war " on the streets because the various Govts and Authorities, whom have been democratically voted in to run our respective Democratic Countries are deemed to have failed the very people that voted them in.

I say again, what a terrible day that will be. The problem is, the noisy Jihad Muslims are seemingly much stronger than the genuine peaceful Muslims and I do not genuinely know who, where or how this will be stopped- maybe it's far too late for that anyway !

As a final comment ; - Just like most of us, I have family residing in Countries where I feel this issue with the Jihadists is fast approaching boiling point. If anything ever happened to them as a result of a Jihadist then it would be " game on " for me.......irrespective of personal consequences. I am only 1 voice and I am definitely not a " Keyboard Warrior "......but that would be the start of a new beginning for me.

If I knew of any White English Christians that were causing any sort of Religious Mayhem on this scale then I would be banging on their doors and wagging my finger at them as a 1st base measure. If that didn't work, we would move to the next level.....but one way or another, they would be stopped !

I say White and English because they can be very little that they would not understand ( culturally ) in the message that I would deliver.

[7by7]

I base my remarks on the evidence of eyewitnesses, as reported in the media.

The Sun with it's 'Muslim convert' headline did at first try and convince that this was a Muslim jihadist attack.

But even they have now dropped the idea; not even they and their readers believe that anymore.

[Ulysses G.]

No matter how many times you insist otherwise, most people think that this Muslim was inspired by Jihad. It is pretty obvious.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jacky54]

simple1 why are you always so quiet about the life of the prophet and the example he set that they all follow

There are numerous posters who shout about this issue and unless one uncritically & fully support their POV, accusations of being an apologist or some similar comment. Out of courtesy I will respond. If you feel it necessary to reply, I trust you also will extend a courteous reply.

Can posters 'shout' ? do you admit as written in Islamic scripture that:

The prophet ordered raids on caravans to steal goods and kill traders

That he offered other religions tolerance but when he became stronger ruthlessly persecuted pagans, Christians and Jews?

That he had a pregnant woman torn apart by horses in front of him

That he married a 6 year old and raped her when she was 9

That he promised to expel all Christians and Jews from Arabia

to deny these things is to deny Islamic scripture

Just for starters of course!

Edited September 10, 2014 by jacky54

[transam]

I base my remarks on the evidence of eyewitnesses, as reported in the media.

The Sun with it's 'Muslim convert' headline did at first try and convince that this was a Muslim jihadist attack.

But even they have now dropped the idea; not even they and their readers believe that anymore.

Do you NOT understand that gov DO NOT want to spread fear to the population that the GOV has welcomed religious nutters to UK shores. Are you daft......?

[7by7]

Nowhere near as daft as you must be if you believe that rubbish!

[7by7]

No matter how many times you insist otherwise, most people think that this Muslim was inspired by Jihad. It is pretty obvious.

Only 'obvious' to those with an agenda who refuse to accept evidence which disproves their theories.

I base my remarks on the evidence of eyewitnesses, as reported in the media.

The Sun with it's 'Muslim convert' headline did at first try and convince that this was a Muslim jihadist attack.

But even they have now dropped the idea; not even they and their readers believe that anymore.

[jacky54]

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

There you go again denigrating serious, sincere posters. To dislike and wish to expose the evils of Islam, as they see it, is not hatred. I don't think anybody 'hates' Muslims do they? However, I think all on here, except you and a couple of others find Islam a violent, dangerous, divisive, women, gay and Jew hating monster that is threatening our way of life in the west.

[Steely Dan]

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

There you go again denigrating serious, sincere posters. To dislike and wish to expose the evils of Islam, as they see it, is not hatred. I don't think anybody 'hates' Muslims do they? However, I think all on here, except you and a couple of others find Islam a violent, dangerous, divisive, women, gay and Jew hating monster that is threatening our way of life in the west.

The sad thing is that to conflate hatred of Islam with hatred of all Muslims has served to paralyze discourse and prevent measures being taken against the ideology for fear of offending it's followers. This has IMHO done the moderates no favors at all because when anger boils over distinctions are not always made.

[7by7]

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

There you go again denigrating serious, sincere posters. To dislike and wish to expose the evils of Islam, as they see it, is not hatred. I don't think anybody 'hates' Muslims do they? However, I think all on here, except you and a couple of others find Islam a violent, dangerous, divisive, women, gay and Jew hating monster that is threatening our way of life in the west.

(7by7 emphasis)

If the highlighted part is what you say about those you don't hate, I wouldn't like to see what you have to say about those you do hate!

[Ulysses G.]

No matter how many times you insist otherwise, most people think that this Muslim was inspired by Jihad. It is pretty obvious.

Only 'obvious' to those with an agenda who refuse to accept evidence which disproves their theories.

"Disproves?" The off-hand reaction of a couple of buddies is hardly conclusive "evidence" and justified concern over the activities of radical Islam is not an "agenda."

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jacky54]

Only in the minds of those who leap on any crime by a Muslim as an excuse to preach their hatred.

There you go again denigrating serious, sincere posters. To dislike and wish to expose the evils of Islam, as they see it, is not hatred. I don't think anybody 'hates' Muslims do they? However, I think all on here, except you and a couple of others find Islam a violent, dangerous, divisive, women, gay and Jew hating monster that is threatening our way of life in the west.

(7by7 emphasis)

If the highlighted part is what you say about those you don't hate, I wouldn't like to see what you have to say about those you do hate!

Are you claiming Islam does not hate Jews, gays and well, just any unbeliever? obviously it hates women or it would not ok the beating of them, the stoning of them for having sex and their word being only worth half that of a man and that a man can have 4 wives but a woman only one husband, who can do to her what he wants to, as a plough going into the fields! Almost forgot genital mutilation killing them for 'honour' and selling children off to old men.

Edited September 10, 2014 by jacky54

[boomerangutang]

How long will it be before a Muslim is beheaded on the streets in retaliation ?

I can't help recall the horrible killing spree of that Norwegian butt-plug - awhile ago on that little island. The victims were young white Norwegians, yet the killer was angry about immigration (of Muslims and non-native Scandinavians?). I reluctantly agree that tit-for-tat killings will happen in England. It won't be right now, in retaliation for the murdered grandmother, but eventually will come about - in Britain. The dry tinder has been building up (child rapes, etc), so it won't take much to spark an ugly backlash. Some radical Muslims in England may even welcome it, in a lancing-the-postule sort of way. Young men in general (on both sides of the issue) are known to band together and get kicks from getting violent - if something/someone comes along and stirs up their overflowing testosterone.

Yet even if it spills over, it's hard to see any sort of sustained action, because even radical anti-Muslims acknowledge that most Muslims are decent and moderate. How do they tell a radical from a moderate - just by appearances? ....particularly when the radical is challenged by loss of citizenship or (in the case of a vengeful mob) loss of life or limb. He's going to save his skin, so he'll say whatever he knows will serve that purpose, something like: "It ain't me, my friend. I'm a moderate. The guys you want to lynch reside in another part of town."

[jacky54]

They are all moderates at first, until Islam starts to get the upper hand, then the gloves come right off!

Edited September 10, 2014 by jacky54

[canuckamuck]

That you can't distinguish the moderates from the jihadists is the fault of the moderates. They should, if they really oppose the violent side of Islam, make sure they belong to a group that condemns it. If it were me, I would make sure people knew where I stood when it came to murder, rape, and other crimes against humanity. It is not a grey area.

Edited September 11, 2014 by canuckamuck

[simple1]

Muslim moderates who do speak out against the evil carried out in the name of Islam are more often than not accused of not being Muslims or ‘apologists’ by the anti-Islam brigade; Same as happened in topics on TV when posters declare they are Muslim and denounce the cruelities. Even if links are provided to content of Muslims speaking out, the general theme is that’s BS. In essence why bother on this forum to point to Muslim moderates as one is shouted down by so many, the same happens in main stream social media.

I have provided some example links below, I assume, in one way or another they will be belittled / attacked, except for the last link as it’s a good example of 'your damned if you do'.

Muslims demonstrate against radical Islam

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/muslims-rally-against-radical-islam-30372912.html

The Big Lie About Muslim Silence on Terrorism

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.html

By denouncing ISIS as ‘not Muslims’, moderate Muslims risk making things worse

http://leftfootforward.org/2014/09/by-denouncing-isis-as-not-muslims-moderate-muslims-risk-making-things-worse/

Edited September 11, 2014 by simple1

[canuckamuck]

The way it's done these days is to begin some sort of fad that demonstrates you belong to a particular ideology or you support a certain cause. Like the little lapel ribbons that say you support aids research or breast cancer charities. Or something like an ice bucket thingy. How hard could it be for moderate Muslims to come up with a symbolic action or identifier that says they have had enough of Islam being used to promote genocide and abuse. The ball is so deep in their court.

It's no guarantee that the action is sincere, but the world would appreciate seeing a little life from the non blood thirsty members of this now dubious and widely feared belief system.

But it won't happen, because they are either controlled by or are sympathetic to the nut-jobs; I believe for most it is both. And because they follow the Quaran.