Buying a guitar

[tigerbeer]

Hi everyone,

My son has decided to learn guitar and wants me to buy one for him. His cousin who plays guitar pretty well has recommended an acoustic style guitar. I am not sure why. But can anyone recommend a shop in Chiang Mai that would sell guitars at a good price. I was thinking of the shop at Airport plaza on the 3rd floor but since their rents are high, prices might be high as well. Not sure if he would actually like playing it so don't want to spend too much to start off with.

Thanks for any advice

TB.

[scd]

Hi TB

The acoustic guitar for a beginner is a good choice for two reasons:

1) It requires no amplification, so can be played anywhere, anytime.

2) If your son decides not to proceed with the guitar at some stage, it is no great financial loss.

There are a number of specialist musical instrument shops in town which i would recommend over something in a shopping centre.

There's one on Moon Muang Road, one on Chang Klan Road, and one on Charoen Prathet Road, to name 3.

I would think for a beginner, with an unknown level of future interest, that something in the 3-6,000 baht range would be the go.

[62strat]

If he is involved in the selection it might help keep his interest... There is two I like in the old city... Green Music (I think) about 1/2k south of Wat Jedi Lung ..same side of that street.... and another one just inside Tapae gate and south of that, about two and 1/2 blocks.. Lots of semi junk instruments to be found on the moat road after IT COM / Computer City but something that sounds bad when you play it right is hard to be inspired by IMHO

Edited September 5, 2014 by 62strat

[slipperylobster]

Hi TB

The acoustic guitar for a beginner is a good choice for two reasons:

1) It requires no amplification, so can be played anywhere, anytime.

2) If your son decides not to proceed with the guitar at some stage, it is no great financial loss.

There are a number of specialist musical instrument shops in town which i would recommend over something in a shopping centre.

There's one on Moon Muang Road, one on Chang Klan Road, and one on Charoen Prathet Road, to name 3.

I would think for a beginner, with an unknown level of future interest, that something in the 3-6,000 baht range would be the go.

Some acoustic guitars are every bit expensive as an electric guitar. The real reason for starting on an acoustic guitar is to work on finger strength and callouses. Some Acoustics have pickups installed...which is nice, as you can plug it into your computer/and/or amplifier, for recording...or effects. A third type of guitar is a Classical Guitar. That has a wider neck and might be tough to learn on.

I would recommend a low cost quality Acoustic.......Yamaha is a good choice. Central Festival Mall has a good guitar shop upstairs. There are two Music shops....do not buy a cheapo, plywood. Go for the Yamaha.... The one shop has nothing but toy-like crap, and the other has the good stuff. The beginner model is about 4000. The off brand plywood type with plastic tuners will not stay in tune, and the neck will warp. They also break easy. Yamaha has metal, sealed tuners on top.....that keep the strings tuned proplerly. Also, the neck will not warp like on the cheaper brands. The better made guitars have a metal truss rod up through the neck....for minor adjustments to prevent warping. You tilt the guitar and look at where the neck is attached....and at the other end, it should be noticeable. Without the rod, on an acoustic, Medium and heavier strings will stress out the neck. Some Acoustics are just built for lighter gauge strings (no truss rod).

Go ahead and get an acoustic with built in pickup (they exist)

If your son just has to go hard rock/metal and wants to rock n roll......start him with an electric Ibanez....for about 8000.

Edited September 5, 2014 by slipperylobster

[koo]

There are 2 types of acoustic guitars - metal string and nylon string.

The metal string guitar has a narrower neck (thus one would think it is easier to play - wrong), and the metal strings have a good amount of tension. It requires some technique and hardening of the fingertips to play it properly. Not for beginners.

The nylon string (classic) guitar is however a lot easier to play, the tension of the strings does not eat through the fingertips, and the strings are far enough apart that a good handling of the chords is easy. Definitely more starter-friendly. Also, normally quite much less expensive than the metal string one.

For a beginner - go for an inexpensive nylon string first. When skills evolve, you can always switch to metal string or electric.

[slipperylobster]

True....Classical Guitars have 3 nylon strings and 3 metal. The wide neck is hard on small fingers for barred chords. I would not recommend a classical guitar to start on. You can always buy lighter guage strings on a standard acoustic (western) style...if his fingers suffer. But he has to build callouses. Electric can use extra light.....easiest of all, actually.

[firefox999uk]

Like Slipperylobster says, go for a cheap but quality guitar such as a Yamaha or Epiphone.

The reason being that cheap guitars usually are not very well made, and the action on the neck is to high, thus

having to use more pressure to hold the strings down, which will eventually hurt the fingers so much that he will

give up learning.

As for a nylon strung guitar, forget it, they are very difficult to keep in tune over here

And the neck is too wide for a beginner.

Go to a proper instrument shop not some guy selling cheap in the malls.

Take the cousin along, he will hopefully have a better idea of what to look for.

Remember just because the guitar looks good, doesn’t always mean it is good.

Dream makes a decent looking guitar over here, but they are bloody awful to play and sound dull.

Also a lighter string will be a benefit, something like a set of 9-42 gauge

I personally use Elixir nano web strings as they have a nano web coating that prevents the string rusting to quickly,

and they sound brighter for longer with a nice tone.

Incidentally I have been playing guitar for 52 years now, so, I think I can say I have learned a little bit about them.

But hey..each to their own as they say.

Good luck with the choice and i hope he sticks with it.

Have a Nice Day.

Edited September 5, 2014 by firefox999uk

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Tigerbeer,

I think to really advise you, well, we need to know:

1. your son's age

2. your son's hand-size, and general hand-strength

3. the type of music your son would like to play: rock ? folk ? classical ? jazz ?

4. if your son has a definite preference for (or you have decided on) a nylon stringed guitar vs. a steel-string.

fyi: among the many low-cost high-quality guitars Yamaha makes (in China) on offer here you'll find models that are 15/16th. size, or smaller.

If you go to the music shop in Airport Plaza 3rd. floor, ask for Khun Oh; he's quite friendly, speaks English, and will advise you, and you won't be under any obligation to buy. Khun Oh, outside his work at Airport Plaza, is a very competent guitar technician who builds guitars, and can adjust neck-tension, etc. I join others here in suggesting you take your son with you.

happy tunes, ~o:37;

[Trujillo]

On a tangent, I have a Yamaha classical G-60A from the mid 70s (it was used as a rental for guitar students in Japan) that has a slight neck-warp problem. There is no truss rod so not much I can do in that regard. I have fiddled with the nut and saddle, but it's not a real solution. I don't know if this instrument can be salvaged, but does anyone know where I might take it to be examined and possible repaired?

[DaamNaam]

Central festival has 2 new guitar shops. One looks el-cheapo the other the real deal. Worth a look perhaps.

[MESmith]

Start off with a ukulele? Cheaper to buy, popular with kids. Progress to a guitar later?

I must confess that I know nothing about musical instruments....

[tigerbeer]

HI guys,

I must admit i do not know anything about guitars but no doubt have learnt quite a bit about guitars from this thread. Thank you so much for your responses and i think i shall make a trip to central festival and check out the guitar shop there for a yamaha. Will talk to the person there further about nylon or metal strings.

Orang my son is 10 years old and perhaps has a little larger hands then his fellow friends. he likes rock sort of music. his cousin has a couple electric guitars but he does not live in Chiang Mai.

Thanks again everyone. great forum as i always remember it to be.

[Trujillo]

To answer your query: Steel string guitars have a narrower neck compared to classicals (nylon string). A young hand would be better fitted to steel.

There is nothing special about Yamahas; I have one and like it, and I have a friend who plays much better than I do and he doesn't like them at all.

I would be thinking two ways. One, the guitar shop in Festival that has better instruments has very expensive models. They still don't get how to display the guitars -- the ones in the glass case for example are racked too high to see inside the sound hole to see which model they are, and nothing on the tag, if you can locate one, gives more information.

The other shop has mostly Chinese-made instruments. For a learner, a decent one would be fine. Remember, he might lose interest and then you are only stuck with a budget guitar for furniture.

My suggestion would be to go to Kad Suan Kaew and locate the guitar shop. They relocated within the mall some time ago, but they are still around somewhere. Ask at the information desk. They have a pretty decent selection of playable, budget guitars. And they have a couple of Yamahas, if you want to go that route. The best thing would be for you to ask someone who can play the guitar, at least to some level, to go with you and help you try out instruments in your price range. (There is a significant difference in ease of playing according to the height of string from the fretboard. If the action is too high -- and this is often the case with cheaper guitars -- the instrument will be hard to play and very frustrating for a young learner.) The rents are cheaper at this mall compared to Festival, and the guitars I have looked at at KSK are slightly better overall.

[tfc]

The top floor of Kad Suan Kaew has a guitar shop.

If I was going to buy a higher priced guitar then I'd go with a brand name but for the prices you are looking at I found that the Tyma brand sounds a lot better than similarly priced Yamaha and Epiphone. Back home I have a Maton, Martin and a Cole Clark but they are $1400+. I used to have a $600 Yamaha and to be honest this Tyma I have which I bought for between 3000-4000 baht (can't remember the exact price) on sale sounds better. I'd say that it sounds about 80% as good as my Cole Clark or Maton. My Cole Clark and my Maton are solid wood guitars and has been warmed in for about 3 years. I think my $1400+ Martin still has layered laminate in it.

Have a play for yourself between the Yamaha, Epiphone and Tyma and you'll notice the difference I'm sure though perhaps different people have different auditory tastes. Personally I find the Tyma in that price range to be warmer.

I also second the opinion on getting the Elixir strings. They may cost more now but they retain their brightness longer and I noticed that they don't "splinter" after say a year of not changing your strings. Not that I recommend keeping old strings on the guitar if he's going to be a regular player but sometimes the guitar ends up standing in the corner and it's nice to be able to pick it up and not get small bits of metal in my fingers.

[Trujillo]

Have a play for yourself between the Yamaha, Epiphone and Tyma and you'll notice the difference

Remember he said, "I must admit i do not know anything about guitars...." This is why I suggested he find someone who is a guitarist to accompany him to the shop.

...after say a year of not changing your strings...

A YEAR without changing strings? Wow! If he's learning, then he's using the guitar every day. I'd suggest changing strings every month (or sooner if you want). No need for specialized strings for a beginner.

[ozsamurai]

I'd look on the classifieds for a brand name at a good price, some here on TV, some on facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/753941907996914/.

When he decides whether he will continue to play or not, he will then know what HE wants, guitars are very much a style/taste thing. I have a wall full of them, showing I have no style nor taste...

Oz

[orang37]

Orang my son is 10 years old and perhaps has a little larger hands then his fellow friends. he likes rock sort of music. his cousin has a couple electric guitars but he does not live in Chiang Mai.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun TigerBeer,

One of the hard-to-predict factors ... without deep knowledge of your son's self-motivation in general, and passion for learning music in specific ... is the extent to which he will persist in playing/learning given delayed satisfaction/mastery.

An electric guitar is perhaps easiest of all to play in terms of finger pressure, but, then, you need amplification. The risk there is possibly the tendency of some younger folks to be satisfied making noise and not progress much.

A full sized nylon string (classical) guitar's larger neck width, greater distance between frets, may present a problem for younger players unless they use a capo to start from a higher-fret. However a 15/16th., 3/4, or 1/2, size classical guitar,like Yamaha makes, may represent a nice balance between ease of fretting and shorter neck width.

A steel-string guitar (acoustic) is going to be much harder to fret, and present a steeper learning curve for younger fingers (to develop callouses). However, use of light-gauge strings (silk-and-steel), and setting the action low, can help with this ... at the expense of sound projection (volume).

I disagree with Khun Trujillo's statement in a post on this thread that there's "nothing special about Yamaha guitars:" the Yamaha you can buy in Thailand for under 5~7k baht is manufactured with a level of quality-control, and quality of components, and has tonal qualities (once "played in") that you could never find as recently as ten years ago. Once you get into much more expensive guitars, however, I would agree that Yamaha guitars are far eclipsed in quality by other luthiers.

But, if you buy an inexpensive any-brand-guitar here, I would recommend getting it set-up properly which means an initial neck adjustment. People like Khun Oh at Airport Plaza are competent to do this. And, I think it's a good idea your son learn how to string the guitar properly, himself.

cheers, ~o:37;

[firefox999uk]

Have a play for yourself between the Yamaha, Epiphone and Tyma and you'll notice the difference

Remember he said, "I must admit i do not know anything about guitars...." This is why I suggested he find someone who is a guitarist to accompany him to the shop.

...after say a year of not changing your strings...

A YEAR without changing strings? Wow! If he's learning, then he's using the guitar every day. I'd suggest changing strings every month (or sooner if you want). No need for specialized strings for a beginner.

I just wish that the Elixir nanowebs were around when i was learning to play...they would have saved

a lot of finger bleeds

Over here I find after about 2-3 weeks normal strings (and ive tried them all) start rusting..the Elixir Nanowebs are lasting in excess of 8 months, and then i change them only because of the tonal quality....they are also excellent for staying in tune.

I try to get 2 sessions a week in, each session about 3-4 hours, sometimes more.

But of course, this is just my personal opinion.

Have a Nice Day.

[Tongdee]

True....Classical Guitars have 3 nylon strings and 3 metal. The wide neck is hard on small fingers for barred chords. I would not recommend a classical guitar to start on. You can always buy lighter guage strings on a standard acoustic (western) style...if his fingers suffer. But he has to build callouses. Electric can use extra light.....easiest of all, actually.

wrong... classical guitars have 6 strings that are all nylon, gut, or carbon cored. 3 or more of the strings are comonly wrapped with windings of metal or nylon. 2 or 3 strings are comonly plain, apearing like fishing line. The Savarez strings I favor for my Jose Ramirez guitars and many others are all wound The lower sounding strings with silver & copper the higher sounding strings with nylon. Classical guitars are by far the best to learn on if comparing similar quality. The high action & wide flat neck on a classical makes learning good technique essential, Makes fingerpicking much easier and allows a wide pallet of tone to be expressed. Classical players find any other style of guitar play (excepting flamenco) rather easy(if not boring) and excell at any if they have obtained any proficiency. I do not recomend starting anyone out on a low quality instriment as this can create the opposite of perfect pitch if the intonation is out. A better strategy is to look for a quality used instriment, definitely with expert assistance to assess the intonation of the instriment. A quality instriment is a pleasure to play hence gets played, practiced more. It will also hold its value better than a cheap instriment. Someone in this forum has dissed plywood soundboards in favor of solid wood soundboards. With older more careful people that are not likely to abuse a guitar I would agree, they can be made to sound much better. With a child however the durability of a laminated soundboard could be a plus. As for buying a child & or a beginner an electric, I can say there are no positives to this move. Another point & an important one is along with the guitar locate an instructor right in the beginning to keep bad habits from developing. Wrong finger position in the beginning can become a habit very quickly and can be very hard to break. Bad posture------if it hurts to play---you know how much practice will happen. Not learning some of the basics in the beginning, like reading standard notation can hold back otherwise talented individuals. The cost of proper instruction in the beginning is very reasonable. Any yamaha guitar from the very cheapest right up to concert quality will play in tune. If it is in tune anywhere on the neck it will be in tune everywhere. That cannot be said of many of the chineese el cheapos. How much to spend???? You are in control there. The classicals I play run 30,000 to 130,000 baht. They are a high priority item with me and within my budget when I bought them. Stick to what you can afford. bring a knowledgable advisor when shopping.

Tongdee Classic

[tfc]

Have a play for yourself between the Yamaha, Epiphone and Tyma and you'll notice the difference

Remember he said, "I must admit i do not know anything about guitars...." This is why I suggested he find someone who is a guitarist to accompany him to the shop.

...after say a year of not changing your strings...

A YEAR without changing strings? Wow! If he's learning, then he's using the guitar every day. I'd suggest changing strings every month (or sooner if you want). No need for specialized strings for a beginner.

I know, I know, I hang my head in shame.

There was once a time when I would change my strings at least once every 6 weeks or so. These days sometimes I don't even pick up the guitar once every six weeks.

[Tongdee]

On a tangent, I have a Yamaha classical G-60A from the mid 70s (it was used as a rental for guitar students in Japan) that has a slight neck-warp problem. There is no truss rod so not much I can do in that regard. I have fiddled with the nut and saddle, but it's not a real solution. I don't know if this instrument can be salvaged, but does anyone know where I might take it to be examined and possible repaired?

A guitar neck should not be dead straight for maximum playability. It should be concave from the first fret to the 12 or 15 (prefered) on a classical .

If you have a back bow that can be a pain to play (altho I have a beautiful sounding Antonio Aperichio with a mild backbow that I enjoy playing and do not even notice the warp when playing)

Ideal string height at the 12th fret on the bass side is from 3.5 mm to 6mm and from 3mm to 4.5mm on the treble side.

Many excellent classical players who use a wide range of dynamics in there play, prefer the higher action as it is easier to produce a wider range of sound "colorations"

and greater volume without fret buzz.

people who like to play real fast with no concern for dynamics (& people with very weak fingers.) prefer lower action.

Excessive backbow can often be cured by filling the frets. Remove the strings run a long fine flat file along the length of the neck and flatten the tops of the frets that a straight edge (steel ruler) rocks on.

once flattened the frets should be recrowned (filed into a curve with the top at the center of the fret).

The restringing process and bringing the guitar up to pitch should induce appropriate "relief" (the name given to the desired curvature of the neck").

If the fret height is not adequate to file flat & remain playable (that would suprise me with a mid 70's Yamaha {Likely made in Japan} that has not been horribly abused (strung with steel strings or used as a prybar)

The next easiest would be to remove the frets and replace with taller ones that have adequate height to be filed.

Sorry my bench is overloaded & I wont be taking on any more repairs in the forseeable future.

I do not know firsthand anyone in Chiang Mai that I can recomend for the job, but it is not highly technical for those who understand the concept. Do it yourself, it is easy...

Tongdee of Ramirez.

[Tongdee]

For what it is worth I have 22 guitars of my own in Thailand,10 classicals & flamincos, 7 electrics (2 of them Rickenbacker 12 strings electrics) Generally play & or practice (very different from playing) 3 to 5 hours a day.

I seldom play any but the classicals. Except when I am up at strange hours and dont want to disturb the neibours when I play an electric unpluged.

I also repair, ( busy with what is already on my bench if You are not Ekachai Jerakul I am too busy, if you are Eckachai, you already have good repair people avalible) & build Archtops, violins Violas and classical guitars in exotic woods and am moving into the carbon fibre instriments.(learning curve). This is what I do for kicks, not commerce.

I may know some of what I write about.....

Tongdee Classic

[FolkGuitar]

Personally, and it IS a very personal opinion... ask the child what sort of music he wants to play. Or ask what artist he wants to sound like.

If the boy wants to sound like a rock star, giving him the worlds finest classical guitar and classical lessons is going to bore the shit out of him! There is no doubt that the classical approach IS the very best foundation for any style of guitar playing, but if he has no interest in it, he's not going to practice it. If he wants to be a rock star, start him off with an electric guitar. If he wants to be a folk singer, get him a nice steel string acoustic. If he wants to play like Segovia, give him a classical guitar. Forcing a style on him is not going to make him a happy camper. And if he's not happy, he isn't going to practice.

Once you know what HE wants, then you can begin to think about buying him something to play on. Don't buy 'cheap.' Don't buy the best high-end guitars either. Look for a mid-level guitar. Plan to spend 4,000-7,000 baht. His ears won't be able to discern the difference between them for 6 months or so, but his fingers will. It's easier to play on a better guitar. And if it's easier to play, and the sound is OK, then the feedback he receives for his effort is rewarding and he'll continue to practice. And THAT is the key... he'll continue to practice, he'll continue to improve, AND... he may just decide that he doesn't want to be a rock star, and start listening to jazz guitarists, folk singers, or, God forbid, even Classical guitar players. The work that he does for the first 6 months isn't wasted. While some changes have to be made in hand position, guitar position, etc., they are easy enough to do. I've been a performing folk guitarist for more than 50 years, but recently decided to study Classical guitar.

The key to success for him is that he enjoys the process. A mid-range guitar, a good teacher (that will teach him the style he wants to learn. You might have to ask around to find the right fit. There are a lot of very good teachers in Chiang Mai, but they all teach their own style,) and a bit of practice. That's all it takes to get him off on the right foot.

Edited September 7, 2014 by FolkGuitar

[Trujillo]

Tongdee -- PM me if you would like to get rid of one of your classical guitars. I am looking for something reasonably priced, yet having decent sound. I am not all that good (Practice? What's that?), but a nice instrument might inspire me.