Red shirts in Japan ‘plot’ against coup

[mojorison]

Your inside his heart now are you? I think your assumptions are misguided and illogical... )and may prove to be wrong.) I think we'll need to let history be the judge.

better to dream a little than have the anti army/whoever attitude. The PM has more heart for the country than any of the last SHIN/PTP put together.

I am doing exactly what you say. It is you that is trying to discredit the PMs intentions.

Regarding the inside his heart comment, True the PM has done more in 4 months for Thailand than Yingluck did in 3 years, stands to reason she was missing half the time to skip responsibility. She or her cabinet had no marbles to run the job--it has been proved. Time will tell here.

As you say I could be wrong, but at least I am moving with the times, I have moved on since the Flash Gordon's days.

I am not necessarily discrediting his intentions. I am discrediting his legitimacy to govern. That is all. Regarding his achievements, one could argue that Thaksin did more in 3 years, than the Dems did in 20 years... but that is a moot point.

[halloween]

I am not necessarily discrediting his intentions. I am discrediting his legitimacy to govern. That is all. Regarding his achievements, one could argue that Thaksin did more in 3 years, than the Dems did in 20 years... but that is a moot point.

That may well be true, if "did more" was a euphemism for "stole".

[mojorison]

I am not necessarily discrediting his intentions. I am discrediting his legitimacy to govern. That is all. Regarding his achievements, one could argue that Thaksin did more in 3 years, than the Dems did in 20 years... but that is a moot point.

That may well be true, if "did more" was a euphemism for "stole".

That's why I said it was moot. Because if you look at them closely you will see that they are both as bad as the other. The difference is simply who they serve. That is all. The SLORC serves the old brigade, the other group serve the hillbillies. And yes "serve" is a euphemism for ripping everyone off blind and padding the wallets of themselves, their friends and relatives and paying off those who facilitate them. On both sides. Or I am the easter bunny.

[Fat Haggis]

Why are so many farangs here condemning Thais that actually have a right to vote, unlike many of those who call them everything from terrorists, to trouble makers ?

Have you forgotten it's actually their country, and whether you like it or not, the anti coup protesting Thais actually have more rights to do so, than 99% of the Farangs that condemn them...

[Somtamnication]

I fail to understand why some posters believe that only red shirts are opposed to a coup?

[metisdead]

From the OP:

BANGKOK: -- The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) is monitoring a group of Thai anti-coup activists in Japan amid allegations they are planning a campaign against the junta.

Deputy army chief Gen Udomdej Sitabutr, who is also deputy defence minister, told an NCPO meeting Friday (September 5) that the activists had attempted to submit a letter denouncing the coup to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

The letter is said to have explained their opposition to the coup and detailed alleged torture and physical assaults against people who had been detained by the military junta, Gen Udomdej said.

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[ginjag]

I fail to understand why some posters believe that only red shirts are opposed to a coup?

I fail to believe that is the case, Some people do not like army control (could be reading too many books OR ??)

The only threat and I mean threat (hostile) is from that paid RED action group. hence the Marshal Law. Naturally the army is concerned and posters connect the OTHERS with the red apologists.

[ThailandNoob]

I am not necessarily discrediting his intentions. I am discrediting his legitimacy to govern. That is all. Regarding his achievements, one could argue that Thaksin did more in 3 years, than the Dems did in 20 years... but that is a moot point.

That may well be true, if "did more" was a euphemism for "stole".

That's why I said it was moot. Because if you look at them closely you will see that they are both as bad as the other. The difference is simply who they serve. That is all. The SLORC serves the old brigade, the other group serve the hillbillies. And yes "serve" is a euphemism for ripping everyone off blind and padding the wallets of themselves, their friends and relatives and paying off those who facilitate them. On both sides. Or I am the easter bunny.

Except that one side relies on elections to get into power, which puts an upper limit on what they can get away with. Compare this to the other side, which relies on coups and dodgy court decisions, which means they can get away with anything they want, since they are accountable to themselves.

One side advocated secession so that they could be free of the other side, which wants to keep the country together so they can keep launching coups whenever they feel like it to lord it over those "too stupid to vote".

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[Fat Haggis]

Why are so many farangs here condemning Thais that actually have a right to vote, unlike many of those who call them everything from terrorists, to trouble makers ?

Have you forgotten it's actually their country, and whether you like it or not, the anti coup protesting Thais actually have more rights to do so, than 99% of the Farangs that condemn them...

Why come on stirring up trouble with your quote " so many farrangs here condemning re Thais the vote"

Bull and a load of that. Where did you see this ever put on TVF ??? and the anti PTP protesters have the same rights. without digging in behind tires and sharpened bamboos/armed.

The intervention was to stop this happening again, and is smoothing the way to a better Thailand--if that is not good enough, why post.

Why is it stirring things up? The Farangs that have the right to vote, are entitled to voice their opinions whether their pro-or anti coup, exactly the same as the Thais who actually have more rights seeing as it is their country.

So you're saying that nobody here in this thread, has criticised a handful of Thais who are anti coup?

If you consider that stirring things up, I'd presume that you actually don't have a right to vote, and that anything you say is just a waste of time, as it's irrelevent to the.

The right to vote sir, is the same as the right to protest, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, or what party you champion I care not if they are red/yellow, green white, blue or turquoise, it's the right of Thai citizens who are supposed to have a democratic right to say who should and should not run their country, over the opinions of a few self inflated Farangs who seem to believe they are more Thai than the very people protesting against the coup.

If you really think everything is roses and chocolates, then you're dillousional into the bargain, there are plenty of people who oppose the coup, but they cannot do it openly otherwise they'll get arrested, and "educated". It's no different here, for those who don't agree withthe coup, it's one way traffic, it suits the powers that be just fine, it suits those who want to pretty much gloat over the die hard PTP supporters as they can bait them, and I've seen it, and get away with it, doesn't really bother me.

The coup never altered a single thing in the village where I live, it never impacted anyones life, nobody was ever in fear of their life of being attacked before , during or after the coup, and I think you'll find that is the case in the vast majority of the country.

Is life really better in rural areas? Has life actually changed so differently in these areas since the coup? The one thing that has been significant is that now, you can no longer speak out about who's running the country.. unlike before eh?

If you and many others honestly believe that the PTP/UDD are dead and buried, then the reforms don't really need 12-18 months to complete, after all, the claims that the majority of the country should now result in a complete landslide victory for the Democrats or whatever party the good General will decide to throw his weight behind.. even if you held a sudden snap election in 2 months..

[mikemac]

I am not necessarily discrediting his intentions. I am discrediting his legitimacy to govern. That is all. Regarding his achievements, one could argue that Thaksin did more in 3 years, than the Dems did in 20 years... but that is a moot point.

That may well be true, if "did more" was a euphemism for "stole".

That's why I said it was moot. Because if you look at them closely you will see that they are both as bad as the other. The difference is simply who they serve. That is all. The SLORC serves the old brigade, the other group serve the hillbillies. And yes "serve" is a euphemism for ripping everyone off blind and padding the wallets of themselves, their friends and relatives and paying off those who facilitate them. On both sides. Or I am the easter bunny.

Except that one side relies on elections to get into power, which puts an upper limit on what they can get away with. Compare this to the other side, which relies on coups and dodgy court decisions, which means they can get away with anything they want, since they are accountable to themselves.

One side advocated secession so that they could be free of the other side, which wants to keep the country together so they can keep launching coups whenever they feel like it to lord it over those "too stupid to vote".

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[ginjag]

Why are so many farangs here condemning Thais that actually have a right to vote, unlike many of those who call them everything from terrorists, to trouble makers ?

Have you forgotten it's actually their country, and whether you like it or not, the anti coup protesting Thais actually have more rights to do so, than 99% of the Farangs that condemn them...

Why come on stirring up trouble with your quote " so many farrangs here condemning re Thais the vote"

Bull and a load of that. Where did you see this ever put on TVF ??? and the anti PTP protesters have the same rights. without digging in behind tires and sharpened bamboos/armed.

The intervention was to stop this happening again, and is smoothing the way to a better Thailand--if that is not good enough, why post.

Why is it stirring things up? The Farangs that have the right to vote, are entitled to voice their opinions whether their pro-or anti coup, exactly the same as the Thais who actually have more rights seeing as it is their country.

So you're saying that nobody here in this thread, has criticised a handful of Thais who are anti coup?

If you consider that stirring things up, I'd presume that you actually don't have a right to vote, and that anything you say is just a waste of time, as it's irrelevent to the.

The right to vote sir, is the same as the right to protest, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, or what party you champion I care not if they are red/yellow, green white, blue or turquoise, it's the right of Thai citizens who are supposed to have a democratic right to say who should and should not run their country, over the opinions of a few self inflated Farangs who seem to believe they are more Thai than the very people protesting against the coup.

If you really think everything is roses and chocolates, then you're dillousional into the bargain, there are plenty of people who oppose the coup, but they cannot do it openly otherwise they'll get arrested, and "educated". It's no different here, for those who don't agree withthe coup, it's one way traffic, it suits the powers that be just fine, it suits those who want to pretty much gloat over the die hard PTP supporters as they can bait them, and I've seen it, and get away with it, doesn't really bother me.

The coup never altered a single thing in the village where I live, it never impacted anyones life, nobody was ever in fear of their life of being attacked before , during or after the coup, and I think you'll find that is the case in the vast majority of the country.

Is life really better in rural areas? Has life actually changed so differently in these areas since the coup? The one thing that has been significant is that now, you can no longer speak out about who's running the country.. unlike before eh?

If you and many others honestly believe that the PTP/UDD are dead and buried, then the reforms don't really need 12-18 months to complete, after all, the claims that the majority of the country should now result in a complete landslide victory for the Democrats or whatever party the good General will decide to throw his weight behind.. even if you held a sudden snap election in 2 months..

This topic is about red shirt activists/groups/threats to the government putting wrongs to rights.

Rural area opposed to the red shirts were not allowed to show it, or they received less benefits from the village head. TRUE. Why the red villages controlled,?? so your rural life bit is propaganda as is the rest of the post.

The baiting on TVF is mostly from the losers who will not cede. frustrated that the PTP were thrown out lock stock and barrel.

We are supposed to be on topic but the embarrassment of the reds underground movement is causing the topic to get diverted about elections Dems-coup. Thacksin must have knowledge of these red movements, or else who is funding them, and who is abroad stirring trouble.

[KhnomKhnom]

I see some knee jerk typists on TV are not aware that the Army stopped and is stopping black shirts/red neck-scarfs private soldiers with war weapons from carrying out civil war-type actions trying to destabilize Thailand .... and justify return to Red-run, Thaksins-owned, crony-infested, former Thailand political machine.

Thailand was/is at a crisis and the importance to stop the Reds goes well beyond the niceties of full free speech. Giving up what I personally have never lost (I never wanted to do what the Army now bans), is very easy ... and should be for all foreign guests here as a tiny 'price' to pay for a rescued nation.

[ThailandNoob]

The coup never altered a single thing in the village where I live, it never impacted anyones life, nobody was ever in fear of their life of being attacked before , during or after the coup, and I think you'll find that is the case in the vast majority of the country.

Is life really better in rural areas? Has life actually changed so differently in these areas since the coup? The one thing that has been significant is that now, you can no longer speak out about who's running the country.. unlike before eh?

If the junta stop the rice subsidy (like they said they would), then I can see life in rural areas changing quite a bit, just not for the better. With more money available to spend, the farmers stimulated the economy quite a lot in towns such as Ubol. People were taking advantage of the increase in money floating around and getting off the land and doing things like learning trades and starting small businesses.

But if the farmers stop having disposable income, then a lot of people that relied on them for a living are going to have no choice but to go back to the land.

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[Fat Haggis]

I couldn't care less who is running the country, I'm a guest, I have no say Ginjag, as I suspect you are too, you have an opinion, like many here, that means Jack Shyt to the Thai eloctorat.

Winners always write the history books, and you being an eductaed man should also know that unless this is the first coup in Military History, that was welcomed with open arms and the country will be better off long term, then historically coups and their results don't tend to end too well.

Of course there's a lot of things better for some people, but to many, it's no change.

I know full well that this thread is about a group of Thais plotting against the coup, the point I'm trying to make here is that they have a damn sight more rights to protest and plot against the coup, than many of the Farang posters!!!

[JAG]

Here again is another example of keeping the Thais ill informed. Now you see the difference ??? the army IS informing the people what it's aims are.

Are you forgetting the Shins Amnesty bill ?? it started all the upsets here but you will not believe that--cause your main DIG is elections again to let the people vote--Pathetic.

In 2011 everyone knew that a vote for Yingluck was a vote for Thaksin. He described her as his "clone" and she did nothing to dispel that. So please don't pretend that Pheu Thai kept people in the dark about its aims.

The amnesty bill started all the upsets? Suthep admits that he had been plotting to overthrow Pheu Thai even before the 2011 election.

The fact that you call people "pathetic" for wanting "elections again to let the people vote" says a lot about you.

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ooooooh, let the people vote, how pathetic is that!

You know that someone is either uninformed or not speaking the truth when they say things like 'the army IS informing the people what it's aims are"

The army is talking about everything except it's "aims".

This is a complete lie---it informs the Thai people every Friday of what it is doing, do keep up. your anti army stance is just that.

So you are pro army?

I had rather got that impression lately!

[canuckamuck]

I couldn't care less who is running the country, I'm a guest, I have no say Ginjag, as I suspect you are too, you have an opinion, like many here, that means Jack Shyt to the Thai eloctorat.

Winners always write the history books, and you being an eductaed man should also know that unless this is the first coup in Military History, that was welcomed with open arms and the country will be better off long term, then historically coups and their results don't tend to end too well.

Of course there's a lot of things better for some people, but to many, it's no change.

I know full well that this thread is about a group of Thais plotting against the coup, the point I'm trying to make here is that they have a damn sight more rights to protest and plot against the coup, than many of the Farang posters!!!

You have a strong opinion about us not voicing our opinion. Other than that I can't understand your point.

You may have noticed this is an expat forum where expats talk about stuff.

[JAG]

I keep seeing these binary choices between pro Yingluck Taksin and junta. FACT is, those two appear to be the only choices this country has. A megalomaniac and his puppet OR a military dictatorship. I'm sure there are many who like neither. Tad sad really, and given the majority of the populace's ignorance of anything other than what they've been force fed for decades, apt.

Where will it all end, eh?

What you say is true to a certain extent, rather than a harsh "military dictatorship" INTERVENTION is a better word, and some hope for the future, time now is Thailands friend.

And I suppose if (as they almost inevitably will) they start shooting at people it will be a" KINETIC INTERVENTION " ?

[ThailandNoob]

Why are so many farangs here condemning Thais that actually have a right to vote, unlike many of those who call them everything from terrorists, to trouble makers ?

Have you forgotten it's actually their country, and whether you like it or not, the anti coup protesting Thais actually have more rights to do so, than 99% of the Farangs that condemn them...

Why come on stirring up trouble with your quote " so many farrangs here condemning re Thais the vote"

Bull and a load of that. Where did you see this ever put on TVF ??? and the anti PTP protesters have the same rights. without digging in behind tires and sharpened bamboos/armed.

The intervention was to stop this happening again, and is smoothing the way to a better Thailand--if that is not good enough, why post.

Why is it stirring things up? The Farangs that have the right to vote, are entitled to voice their opinions whether their pro-or anti coup, exactly the same as the Thais who actually have more rights seeing as it is their country.

So you're saying that nobody here in this thread, has criticised a handful of Thais who are anti coup?

If you consider that stirring things up, I'd presume that you actually don't have a right to vote, and that anything you say is just a waste of time, as it's irrelevent to the.

The right to vote sir, is the same as the right to protest, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, or what party you champion I care not if they are red/yellow, green white, blue or turquoise, it's the right of Thai citizens who are supposed to have a democratic right to say who should and should not run their country, over the opinions of a few self inflated Farangs who seem to believe they are more Thai than the very people protesting against the coup.

If you really think everything is roses and chocolates, then you're dillousional into the bargain, there are plenty of people who oppose the coup, but they cannot do it openly otherwise they'll get arrested, and "educated". It's no different here, for those who don't agree withthe coup, it's one way traffic, it suits the powers that be just fine, it suits those who want to pretty much gloat over the die hard PTP supporters as they can bait them, and I've seen it, and get away with it, doesn't really bother me.

The coup never altered a single thing in the village where I live, it never impacted anyones life, nobody was ever in fear of their life of being attacked before , during or after the coup, and I think you'll find that is the case in the vast majority of the country.

Is life really better in rural areas? Has life actually changed so differently in these areas since the coup? The one thing that has been significant is that now, you can no longer speak out about who's running the country.. unlike before eh?

If you and many others honestly believe that the PTP/UDD are dead and buried, then the reforms don't really need 12-18 months to complete, after all, the claims that the majority of the country should now result in a complete landslide victory for the Democrats or whatever party the good General will decide to throw his weight behind.. even if you held a sudden snap election in 2 months..

This topic is about red shirt activists/groups/threats to the government putting wrongs to rights.

Rural area opposed to the red shirts were not allowed to show it, or they received less benefits from the village head. TRUE. Why the red villages controlled,?? so your rural life bit is propaganda as is the rest of the post.

The baiting on TVF is mostly from the losers who will not cede. frustrated that the PTP were thrown out lock stock and barrel.

We are supposed to be on topic but the embarrassment of the reds underground movement is causing the topic to get diverted about elections Dems-coup. Thacksin must have knowledge of these red movements, or else who is funding them, and who is abroad stirring trouble.

You know as a red supporter I'm so embarrassed I just want to sink through the floor here! How dare people write a letter speaking out against a military coup! It is such a despicable act isn't it?

On that topic, I'm also deathly ashamed of the actions of my home country's government, which has also stepped out of line by criticising the coup. I mean didn't they know they were breaking Prayuth's newly imposed laws when they condemned the coup? Not to mention barring the junta leaders from entering the country *sees red*

All of these miscreants need to be rounded up and extradited to Thailand for court martial and attitude adjustments while held incommunicado in a military camp.

The fact that if I had praised the group in Japan (and therefore criticised the coup), then my post would have been deleted has nothing to do with it. My failure to stay on topic was purely due to embarrassment.

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[Fat Haggis]

I couldn't care less who is running the country, I'm a guest, I have no say Ginjag, as I suspect you are too, you have an opinion, like many here, that means Jack Shyt to the Thai eloctorat.

Winners always write the history books, and you being an eductaed man should also know that unless this is the first coup in Military History, that was welcomed with open arms and the country will be better off long term, then historically coups and their results don't tend to end too well.

Of course there's a lot of things better for some people, but to many, it's no change.

I know full well that this thread is about a group of Thais plotting against the coup, the point I'm trying to make here is that they have a damn sight more rights to protest and plot against the coup, than many of the Farang posters!!!

You have a strong opinion about us not voicing our opinion. Other than that I can't understand your point.

You may have noticed this is an expat forum where expats talk about stuff.

It's not a strong opinion, it's an observation and is this really an expat forum where expats talk about stuff? Get away with you, I never noticed that.. here's me thinking it was more along the lines of expats thinking they know better than the people who'se country this really is, and that their opinions are just like mine....totally MOOT!!

Don't you think it's a Thai citizens civil right to protest and disagree if they don't support an establishment, becausee if you don't then how do you agree that the PDRC protests were any different ?

How about letting the Thai people, and those with the voting rights, and citizenship decide what's good and better for the country? '

Other than that enjoy the lifestyle you have and all the goodness that surrounds you, is Thai Politics worth getting all lairy and arsey?

Leave the mess to the Thais, they created it, they will fix it, and we will carry on doing what we do best....moaning!!

[canuckamuck]

I couldn't care less who is running the country, I'm a guest, I have no say Ginjag, as I suspect you are too, you have an opinion, like many here, that means Jack Shyt to the Thai eloctorat.

Winners always write the history books, and you being an eductaed man should also know that unless this is the first coup in Military History, that was welcomed with open arms and the country will be better off long term, then historically coups and their results don't tend to end too well.

Of course there's a lot of things better for some people, but to many, it's no change.

I know full well that this thread is about a group of Thais plotting against the coup, the point I'm trying to make here is that they have a damn sight more rights to protest and plot against the coup, than many of the Farang posters!!!

You have a strong opinion about us not voicing our opinion. Other than that I can't understand your point.

You may have noticed this is an expat forum where expats talk about stuff.

It's not a strong opinion, it's an observation and is this really an expat forum where expats talk about stuff? Get away with you, I never noticed that.. here's me thinking it was more along the lines of expats thinking they know better than the people who'se country this really is, and that their opinions are just like mine....totally MOOT!!

Don't you think it's a Thai citizens civil right to protest and disagree if they don't support an establishment, becausee if you don't then how do you agree that the PDRC protests were any different ?

How about letting the Thai people, and those with the voting rights, and citizenship decide what's good and better for the country? '

Other than that enjoy the lifestyle you have and all the goodness that surrounds you, is Thai Politics worth getting all lairy and arsey?

Leave the mess to the Thais, they created it, they will fix it, and we will carry on doing what we do best....moaning!!

The governance of Thailand is an eternal train wreck. So it gets a lot of discussion. Are you suggesting we should refrain from offering our opinions.

Of course everyone and his soi dog knows we can't vote, but neither can the Thais, so I guess we are all in the same boat with no paddles eh?

[mikemac]

In a way I see a funny side to this business in Japan, with these desperate redshirts airing their underwear in Tokyo regarding the coup.

Was not really a coup, but, was it ? When you consider the Encyclopedia Britannica description of a "coup d'etat" is - "a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence"..............

"Violence" ? .......this latest coup was not violent, anything but. In fact after the military takeover occurred the killings stopped, mainly the killing of anti-government protesters by Thaksin's redshirts. So it was actually a "quasi-coup".

And what will the crazy redshirts do about it ? Launch a coup of their own to cancel it out, a-la 2010 ?

[mikemac]

You know as a red supporter I'm so embarrassed I just want to sink through the floor here! How dare people write a letter speaking out against a military coup! It is such a despicable act isn't it?

On that topic, I'm also deathly ashamed of the actions of my home country's government, which has also stepped out of line by criticising the coup. I mean didn't they know they were breaking Prayuth's newly imposed laws when they condemned the coup? Not to mention barring the junta leaders from entering the country *sees red*

All of these miscreants need to be rounded up and extradited to Thailand for court martial and attitude adjustments while held incommunicado in a military camp.

The fact that if I had praised the group in Japan (and therefore criticised the coup), then my post would have been deleted has nothing to do with it. My failure to stay on topic was purely due to embarrassment.

.............."The fact that if I had praised the group in Japan (and therefore criticised the coup), then my post would have been deleted has nothing to do with it."..........

You are lucky I am not a mod, otherwise all your posts would be deleted for that very reason, criticizing the coup.

[ThailandNoob]

You know as a red supporter I'm so embarrassed I just want to sink through the floor here! How dare people write a letter speaking out against a military coup! It is such a despicable act isn't it?

On that topic, I'm also deathly ashamed of the actions of my home country's government, which has also stepped out of line by criticising the coup. I mean didn't they know they were breaking Prayuth's newly imposed laws when they condemned the coup? Not to mention barring the junta leaders from entering the country *sees red*

All of these miscreants need to be rounded up and extradited to Thailand for court martial and attitude adjustments while held incommunicado in a military camp.

The fact that if I had praised the group in Japan (and therefore criticised the coup), then my post would have been deleted has nothing to do with it. My failure to stay on topic was purely due to embarrassment.

.............."The fact that if I had praised the group in Japan (and therefore criticised the coup), then my post would have been deleted has nothing to do with it."..........

You are lucky I am not a mod, otherwise all your posts would be deleted for that very reason, criticizing the coup.

The fact that you want to suppress opposing points of view speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

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[heybruce]

“The National Council for Peace and Order is unlikely to lift the martial law in the near future as groups campaigning against the junta have been detected both in Thailand and abroad.” - The Nation 2014-09-05

“If anti-coup activists escalate their activities, the regional armies will have to step up measures to contain the situation,”

“… all measures to contain anti-coup groups must be in line with Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha's policy to minimise unnecessary conflict for the NCPO …”

Meanwhile the Junta plans to put forth its candidacy for membership in the United Nations Human Rights Council next year. If the Junta continues its vigorous track record for suppression of freedom of speech under martial law, no matter how noble such actions might be, leaders of other nations may not find it an enduring quality in candidates for HRC. The Junta should consider a more restrained and civil approach to countering criticisms without the support of martial law or give up the idea that it is some kind of bastion for democracy.

Name me one country that has freedom of speech. They all have a limit on what is allowed to be printed. Some more than others. You might have missed it but you had the freedom to print your condemnation of them.

I rest my case.

The question was name me one country that has freedom of speech. Not comparisons between them. thought I would mention that before you tried to avoid the question.

Every country has some limits on freedom of speech--you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and stuff like that. I can name many countries where people are free to criticize their government, but Thailand isn't one of them.

I have a strong idea you are wrong. Here criticism is accepted if it is CONSTRUCTIVE there is no problem and the PM is listening to all walks of life.

This propaganda you talk about everything is gagged is ridiculous. IF on the other hand anyone wants to try to halt the progress made with OTT rumours or disruptive actions they will come up against a backhander.

This NON freedom of speech talk is a TVF apologist trend to disrupt as much as possible, therefore strong unnecessary comments are deleted.

There is no reason for anyone to slag off the PM at this stage as the work he is doing is thorough and good.

Here are the reasons TVF apologists disrupt. PTP/Shins are not in power----non elected government----total control by the military--- WHY ??

Because a lousy non democratic government shot it'self in the foot and caused chaos --through the amnesty bill to clear Thaksin---that's it in a nutshell.

Gangs of reds will creep into anywhere where they can still disrupt, seemingly against anything that is anti-Thaksin. They must be on some sort of payroll as a last ditch effort to dislodge. Stupid as they will never get their support back because of the over strong allegiance to Thaksin.

You know in a free society, or even a moderately free society, the government doesn't get to decide what is or isn't constructive criticism. Here calling for elections is banned, presumably elections are unconstructive and won't lead to 'real democracy'.

[GinBoy2]

I fail to understand why some posters believe that only red shirts are opposed to a coup?

Ahh my friend you have clearly failed to understand the nature of a good deal of the keyboard warriors that frequent this place. They see everything with an extreme unquestioning certainty:

All Reds are Bad, All Yellows are Good

Thaksin is evil, Suthep is a Saint

PTP ripped off the country, the Dem's were above graft

Of course feel free to reverse all the names, since that works just as well.

Some of us foolishly believe that the world is a lot more nuanced. There are people in this country of all persuasions that disapprove of a coup, even if they despised the PTP government. There are also PT supporters and officials who weren't out to line their pockets, as equally there were Democrat politicians who had happily lined their pockets in the years BT (before Thaksin). The again there were also democrat governments that did good, others didn't. Some of Thaksins policies aided a lot of very poor people, others didn't.

What a frikkin messy world ain't it?

...unless of course you view your world through the spectacles of moral absolute certainty, coupled with a good dose of short sighted lens correction

[Fat Haggis]

I couldn't care less who is running the country, I'm a guest, I have no say Ginjag, as I suspect you are too, you have an opinion, like many here, that means Jack Shyt to the Thai eloctorat.

Winners always write the history books, and you being an eductaed man should also know that unless this is the first coup in Military History, that was welcomed with open arms and the country will be better off long term, then historically coups and their results don't tend to end too well.

Of course there's a lot of things better for some people, but to many, it's no change.

I know full well that this thread is about a group of Thais plotting against the coup, the point I'm trying to make here is that they have a damn sight more rights to protest and plot against the coup, than many of the Farang posters!!!

You have a strong opinion about us not voicing our opinion. Other than that I can't understand your point.

You may have noticed this is an expat forum where expats talk about stuff.

It's not a strong opinion, it's an observation and is this really an expat forum where expats talk about stuff? Get away with you, I never noticed that.. here's me thinking it was more along the lines of expats thinking they know better than the people who'se country this really is, and that their opinions are just like mine....totally MOOT!!

Don't you think it's a Thai citizens civil right to protest and disagree if they don't support an establishment, becausee if you don't then how do you agree that the PDRC protests were any different ?

How about letting the Thai people, and those with the voting rights, and citizenship decide what's good and better for the country? '

Other than that enjoy the lifestyle you have and all the goodness that surrounds you, is Thai Politics worth getting all lairy and arsey?

Leave the mess to the Thais, they created it, they will fix it, and we will carry on doing what we do best....moaning!!

The governance of Thailand is an eternal train wreck. So it gets a lot of discussion. Are you suggesting we should refrain from offering our opinions.

Of course everyone and his soi dog knows we can't vote, but neither can the Thais, so I guess we are all in the same boat with no paddles eh?

Not suggesting anything of the sort, I'm suggesting that being critical of those who "should" be able to make a difference is a bit rich, it's like when you're having a round of golf and you're having a bad game, and someone starts to give you advice.. If I wanted advice, I'd ask for it, perhaps many Thais think along the same lines..

And if you're boat has no paddles, you improvise, adapt and overcome that obstacle, I totally echo your sentiments though, Thais can't vote, they can't do a lot of things that to us farang is so simple, but it's their mess, its for them to finally get with the program and start making difference, but it's all down to cultural issues.

Something so simple to fix for us is a mountain to climb for some Thais, if they want the advice, I'm sure they'd ask for it, farangs are entitled to their opinions, especially the ones who live in Thailand, but at the end of the day, they can't fix the mess the Thais made of their country, that sir falls 110% firmly at their door.

[heybruce]

Because like all the rest of them he knows damn well what the result would be. That's why the election in February just had to be stopped. The Junta is the result of that process.

Strange, I remember that those northern electorates which gave a result without interference didn't look at all good for PTP. Low turnout, high invalid vote count. Best forgotten, eh?

Yes, the PTP was at a low point in popularity. They would have been seriously weakened if there had been an election in July. The country would have matured as a democracy. There are many reasons why an election would have been preferable to a coup, and the military could have easily ensured a peaceful election. For some reason they didn't want Thailand to have another elected government. I wonder why.

".......the military could have easily ensured a peaceful election." Only with permission of the incumbent government, which would have meant controlling their red thugs. "Seriously weakened" is a euphemism for voted out, but only if opposition candidates were allowed to campaign in all areas, including red villages and UDD heartland, WITHOUT harassment.

Perhaps you should look at it more as stopping the killing, rather than preventing an election. Or is the death of innocents in political violence an acceptable price for a faux-democracy.

"Only with permission of the incumbent government..."

Are you intentionally being funny? We're discussing a military junta that came to power through a coup, and you state they wouldn't act without permission from the incumbent government.

I believe the military could have ensured a peaceful election simply by stating they wanted it to happen and would not tolerate disruptions. There still might have been minor cases of harassment, which the police and military should have worked to prevent, but nothing like the wholesale violence and intimidation staged by Suthep's thugs that obstructed and invalidated the February election.

"Perhaps you should look at it more as stopping the killing, rather than preventing an election. Or is the death of innocents in political violence an acceptable price for a faux-democracy."

Funny, the army was willing to stage a bloody street-clearing crackdown in 2010 in defense of an unelected government, but would do nothing to protect an elected government in 2013-2014. I wonder why.

[heybruce]

I fail to understand why some posters believe that only red shirts are opposed to a coup?

Ahh my friend you have clearly failed to understand the nature of a good deal of the keyboard warriors that frequent this place. They see everything with an extreme unquestioning certainty:

All Reds are Bad, All Yellows are Good

Thaksin is evil, Suthep is a Saint

PTP ripped off the country, the Dem's were above graft

Of course feel free to reverse all the names, since that works just as well.

Some of us foolishly believe that the world is a lot more nuanced. There are people in this country of all persuasions that disapprove of a coup, even if they despised the PTP government. There are also PT supporters and officials who weren't out to line their pockets, as equally there were Democrat politicians who had happily lined their pockets in the years BT (before Thaksin). The again there were also democrat governments that did good, others didn't. Some of Thaksins policies aided a lot of very poor people, others didn't.

What a frikkin messy world ain't it?

...unless of course you view your world through the spectacles of moral absolute certainty, coupled with a good dose of short sighted lens correction

You might have added that Thailand has had some military governments that did nothing to reduce corruption or improve democracy, while others have, um... Never mind.

[GinBoy2]

I fail to understand why some posters believe that only red shirts are opposed to a coup?

Ahh my friend you have clearly failed to understand the nature of a good deal of the keyboard warriors that frequent this place. They see everything with an extreme unquestioning certainty:

All Reds are Bad, All Yellows are Good

Thaksin is evil, Suthep is a Saint

PTP ripped off the country, the Dem's were above graft

Of course feel free to reverse all the names, since that works just as well.

Some of us foolishly believe that the world is a lot more nuanced. There are people in this country of all persuasions that disapprove of a coup, even if they despised the PTP government. There are also PT supporters and officials who weren't out to line their pockets, as equally there were Democrat politicians who had happily lined their pockets in the years BT (before Thaksin). The again there were also democrat governments that did good, others didn't. Some of Thaksins policies aided a lot of very poor people, others didn't.

What a frikkin messy world ain't it?

...unless of course you view your world through the spectacles of moral absolute certainty, coupled with a good dose of short sighted lens correction

You might have added that Thailand has had some military governments that did nothing to reduce corruption or improve democracy, while others have, um... Never mind.

Absolutely right, I could well have added that one to the list, although given the number of coups, I hope they're updating the 'How to Stage a Coup & Improve Democracy' textbooks at the Army College!

Edited September 7, 2014 by GinBoy2

[tbthailand]

Name me one country that has freedom of speech. They all have a limit on what is allowed to be printed. Some more than others. You might have missed it but you had the freedom to print your condemnation of them.

I rest my case.

The question was name me one country that has freedom of speech. Not comparisons between them. thought I would mention that before you tried to avoid the question.

Every country has some limits on freedom of speech--you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater and stuff like that. I can name many countries where people are free to criticize their government, but Thailand isn't one of them.

I have a strong idea you are wrong. Here criticism is accepted if it is CONSTRUCTIVE there is no problem and the PM is listening to all walks of life.

This propaganda you talk about everything is gagged is ridiculous. IF on the other hand anyone wants to try to halt the progress made with OTT rumours or disruptive actions they will come up against a backhander.

This NON freedom of speech talk is a TVF apologist trend to disrupt as much as possible, therefore strong unnecessary comments are deleted.

There is no reason for anyone to slag off the PM at this stage as the work he is doing is thorough and good.

Here are the reasons TVF apologists disrupt. PTP/Shins are not in power----non elected government----total control by the military--- WHY ??

Because a lousy non democratic government shot it'self in the foot and caused chaos --through the amnesty bill to clear Thaksin---that's it in a nutshell.

Gangs of reds will creep into anywhere where they can still disrupt, seemingly against anything that is anti-Thaksin. They must be on some sort of payroll as a last ditch effort to dislodge. Stupid as they will never get their support back because of the over strong allegiance to Thaksin.

You know in a free society, or even a moderately free society, the government doesn't get to decide what is or isn't constructive criticism. Here calling for elections is banned, presumably elections are unconstructive and won't lead to 'real democracy'.

to use the general's words:

those who oppose us will say 'bring back democracy, return power to the people and hold an election'. They print out leaflets and use social networks to make false accusations against us when we have good intentions. I don't understand why they're doing this," the NCPO chairman said.

followed by:

many people still try to destabilise the situation by using the words 'democracy' and 'election'. These people don't see that an incomplete democracy is not safe and it does not create confidence in the global community.

so using the words 'd' and 'e' are destabilizing. And the rest was just gibberish.