Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[Neeranam]

The English are showing their true colours recently. They love to sing land of hope and glory etc and feel in control but now have lost ALL control and are at the mercy of the country they colonized by their manipulation, money and lies.

[Baerboxer]

The Queen will remain Queen of Scotland....there is no question there at all.

Considering that she is more Sottish and German than English, Welsh or Northern Irish that isn't surprising. Her kids are half Greek to dilute it all further.

[Neeranam]

Here's an excellent debate in which a real historian explains what happened.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Neeranam

[NoshowJones]

Baerboxer. I did not forget to mention that Michael Collins was murdered by his own side, because it has never been proved that is the case, Yes, Eamonn de Valera was in the area at the time, but to this day no one knows for sure who shot Michael Collins, anyway I know it was me who started this, but I think we should finish this debate as Thaivisa is a forum for Thailand, and I also know that a debate on Scotlands independence is not about Thailand. So I guess that evens it up.

Anyway, as in the past, it is always nice to debate with you.

[super22k]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

[Baerboxer]

The Queen will remain Queen of Scotland....there is no question there at all.

Are you having a laugh Smokie or what! The Queen may? still be the head of State the same as Australia!

He hadn't thought it through, Majic, just like most things that Salmond hasn't thought through either.

They'll keep the Queen, the pound, the EU membership, the same rights of travel and visa as British citizens, all because the Chief Minister and wannabee President says so. Every one else will just bow to President Alex's commands.

Rude awakening if the vote is yes when humpty dumpty Salmond falls off the wall.

[nontabury]

Honestly I never knew there was such hatred between either, but reading many of these posts just shows how wrong I am and quite how vicious the hatred is.

All in all very depressing.

Better not to read posts:- 46, 95, 106, 199.

Not all Scots are bitter, selfless people living a distorted history. Many are very nice people, just not good footballers.

[Baerboxer]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Scotland's biggest export as always been people, and a great many to England.

I think you are right, the turn on Salmond would be vicious when the ineptness of the SNP is revealed if there is a yes vote.

[MJP]

Honestly I never knew there was such hatred between either, but reading many of these posts just shows how wrong I am and quite how vicious the hatred is.

All in all very depressing.

Better not to read posts:- 46, 95, 106, 199.

Not all Scots are bitter, selfless people living a distorted history. Many are very nice people, just not good footballers.

I used to work in Scotland for Shell and later British Gas Properties. With Scots believe it or not. There was never any of this vitriolic hate, we all got on like normal people. Good laugh actually, I've always found Scots to be very down to earth, smart and kind.

Is this just a load of miserable old TVF coffin dodgers spouting their usual hatred of all around them?

Projection perhaps?

[Baerboxer]

English history in six easy steps -

1. Got done in by the Romans.

2. Got done in by the Saxons.

3. Got done in by the French.

4. Got done in by the Scots.

5. Got done in by the plague.

6. Got done in by the Scots again when we joined them and sucked them dry for 307 years. Now they're £1.4 trillion in debt, we'll just leave them to it.

What a useless nation.

Can't be that bad. Even Salmond wants to keep the Pound and the Queen.

Please stop with the hate speech.

It's not hate speech - its observation - a big difference.

I will ask any Englishman on this thread an honest, and genuine question -------------

When you think of the last 300 years - the growth of Empire, the Industrial Age, the Victorian era, WW1, WW2 - the Cold War - the establishment of the welfare state, the NHS etc - do you look at them as English achievements? or British achievements?

I know plenty of Englishmen that would say English - and look at you like a quizzical Labrador when you start laughing. The rise of English nationalism and fascism has driven a wedge between our nations. It's no mistake that it's not only Scotland that is reacting, but Wales too, where Tories are a dying breed.

35 years of marching to the RIGHT - and we Celts are wondering what's wrong with you.

I would say British. My first wife who was from Lancashire genuinely used the word English to mean British, Scottish or English. Strange use of language. Many non UK people use English in the same way she does. Odd, but there you are. Like calling all US citizens Yankees.

Interesting that you refer to English nationalism as fascism - what's the SNP then, freedom fighting republican democrats?

Double standard and bias, surely not. SNP - nationalists, must be fascists like Franco's nationalists, and Madame Le Penn.

[Baerboxer]

Honestly I never knew there was such hatred between either, but reading many of these posts just shows how wrong I am and quite how vicious the hatred is.

All in all very depressing.

Better not to read posts:- 46, 95, 106, 199.

Not all Scots are bitter, selfless people living a distorted history. Many are very nice people, just not good footballers.

I used to work in Scotland for Shell and later British Gas Properties. With Scots believe it or not. There was never any of this vitriolic hate, we all got on like normal people. Good laugh actually, I've always found Scots to be very down to earth, smart and kind.

Is this just a load of miserable old TVF coffin dodgers spouting their usual hatred of all around them?

Projection perhaps?

Fair comment. I'd lived outside the UK for many years and then went to work in Scotland. European football championships were on. England involved Scotland not. All the Scottish hotel staff were supporting England, and very loudly too. Really refreshing. I would support any team from the British Isles.

In one world cup a Welsh guy and myself were supporting Eire against Brazil in a bar in Malaysia, which had an Irish manager, with about 30 Brazilians.

[transam]

I thought it strange a Scot "working" for the YES camp called the English scum, yet he had an English friend, how strange....

[Baerboxer]

Baerboxer. I did not forget to mention that Michael Collins was murdered by his own side, because it has never been proved that is the case, Yes, Eamonn de Valera was in the area at the time, but to this day no one knows for sure who shot Michael Collins, anyway I know it was me who started this, but I think we should finish this debate as Thaivisa is a forum for Thailand, and I also know that a debate on Scotlands independence is not about Thailand. So I guess that evens it up.

Anyway, as in the past, it is always nice to debate with you.

Likewise. It's always a pleasure to discuss and debate with an intelligent gentleman like yourself, who can respect other's views whilst making your own reasoned arguments.

[emilymat]

Honestly I never knew there was such hatred between either, but reading many of these posts just shows how wrong I am and quite how vicious the hatred is.

All in all very depressing.

I agree. It has been a really tragic eye opener for me, some of the comments on this thread. Banter is fine but the bitterness in some posts is quite shocking. To suggest there is real hatred between normal English and Scots people is something I reject completely. Army for 22 years attached to Scottish regiments, worked in Scotland and holidays every 2 years is what informs my view, not some nationalistic outdated rubbish.

On a somewhat selfish point for any posters in Thailand, the pound is beginning to plummet as I suggested it would in an earlier post and it will continue so to do. Maybe the Scots should re-consider their desire to retain the pound.

[smokie36]

Its amusing to see some of the posters bite at the anti English comments projected here entirely tongue in cheek.

The lack of a sense of humour shows the deep resentment coming to the fore as you realise the golden goose is about to fly away.

The momentum remains with the YES camp.....more and more every day now!

[Neeranam]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

[MJP]

I thought it strange a Scot "working" for the YES camp called the English scum, yet he had an English friend, how strange....

It's all completely nuts. I mean okay rearrange govt admin to better suit the local populace but where's all this vile hatred coming from?

People should be coming together regardless of imaginary lines on a map.

Bonkers.

[NoshowJones]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

and how do you think England would do against this same German side in Germany? Not very well as they were a disaster at the world cup, and we all know how they "won" it in 1966.

I am not a supporter of Scotland, but with a population of around five million to Englands fifty odd million, I don't think Scotland has done too badly apart from the last eighteen years. Also remember that it was a Scottish team who were the first British team to win the European Cup, and with an all Scottish team, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Baerboxer]

The English are showing their true colours recently. They love to sing land of hope and glory etc and feel in control but now have lost ALL control and are at the mercy of the country they colonized by their manipulation, money and lies.

Another believer of myths, or the history according to Hollywood and Saint Mel, or SNP students of history.

Next you'll be claiming all those "clan" tartans were for real, not the invention of Jewish cloth merchants pandering to the Victorian obsession with all things Scottish thanks to Queen Vic herself.

The romantic idea of being independent, running "our" own country, etc etc is very fashionable at the moment - ask the people in Ukraine, Kosovo, Syria, Iraq, Palestine ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MJP]

Countries don't actually exist. Any of them. Borders are a sick delusion.

Politician scum exist. Men with guns exist. Rhetoric is published. And so the delusion is maintained with fear and loathing.

[transam]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

Sorry chum, thought it England, Wales and Scotland had that debt, or have I missed something.

If you want to quote Germany as the reason for a Scot failure, perhaps you can tell us when Scotland won something important regarding football or even Rugby a few times...?

[Neeranam]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

Sorry chum, thought it England, Wales and Scotland had that debt, or have I missed something.

If you want to quote Germany as the reason for a Scot failure, perhaps you can tell us when Scotland won something important regarding football or even Rugby a few times...?

lol

[Baerboxer]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

And a share of that debt is Scotland's, The UK debt problem started with having to finance two world wars and pay back very large loans and very very large amounts of money to the Americans.

A Scot, a certain financial genius named Mr Brown, screwed the UK economy and really f%4ked it up recently. Now we have Cameron, proud of his Scottish heritage, and Salmond trying hard to make an even bigger f%4k up. I bet Putin is laughing is hat off when Cameron threatens him.

So no England doesn't have a trillion pound debt, the UK does. Pissing off doesn't mean you can simply forget your debts.

[smokie36]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

Sorry chum, thought it England, Wales and Scotland had that debt, or have I missed something.

If you want to quote Germany as the reason for a Scot failure, perhaps you can tell us when Scotland won something important regarding football or even Rugby a few times...?

Remember the Five Nations at Murray field in 1990?

....I do!

[smokie36]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

And a share of that debt is Scotland's, The UK debt problem started with having to finance two world wars and pay back very large loans and very very large amounts of money to the Americans.

A Scot, a certain financial genius named Mr Brown, screwed the UK economy and really f%4ked it up recently. Now we have Cameron, proud of his Scottish heritage, and Salmond trying hard to make an even bigger f%4k up. I bet Putin is laughing is hat off when Cameron threatens him.

So no England doesn't have a trillion pound debt, the UK does. Pissing off doesn't mean you can simply forget your debts.

So given Scotland will have 1/10 the debt of England and all of the oil revenue things look a whole lot rosier north of the border.

Perhaps the IMF will bail you out?

[smokie36]

Where are the English planning to park their nuclear weapons when we kick them out by the way?....the Thames estuary?

[MJP]

Where are the English planning to park their nuclear weapons when we kick them out by the way?....the Thames estuary?

Liverpool docks.

[jacky54]

interview with king mick of Scotland

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/prince_michael_stewart.htm

[Baerboxer]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

Sorry chum, thought it England, Wales and Scotland had that debt, or have I missed something.

If you want to quote Germany as the reason for a Scot failure, perhaps you can tell us when Scotland won something important regarding football or even Rugby a few times...?

I wouldn't expect Scotland to beat anybody at football these days, let alone Germany.

Rugby, hmmm, that's a tough question. Scotland last won a Grand Slam in 1990, a Triple Crown in 1990 (5 nations) have never won the 6 nations. They do hold the highest number of wooden spoons of the home unions thought, being surpassed only by Italy.

I heard they were still curling world champions at one time, but not sure they've lost that too now.

[transam]

Scotsurvey.England can t be that bad when half the world seems to want to live here.England is rich and powerful with London being the financial centre of the world. Better than a group of old fashioned hotheads in Glasgow.Scotland always turns on its own when things don t work out.You ll see ,if things go badly they will turn on Alex Salmon.All of them.Viciously.

By the way ,did you see the football last night? Germany 2 Scotland 1. Scotland were outplayed and toyed with by a German reserve team. Lionhearts? They were more like kittenhearts.

Germany are the world champions, did you really expect Scotland to win?

Isn't England a trillion pounds in debt? Rich and powerful, my arse.

Sorry chum, thought it England, Wales and Scotland had that debt, or have I missed something.

If you want to quote Germany as the reason for a Scot failure, perhaps you can tell us when Scotland won something important regarding football or even Rugby a few times...?

Remember the Five Nations at Murray field in 1990?

....I do!

I did say a few times, not 25 years back. Now COME ON you shield thumpers, a bit fed up with all the English bashing, never a mention of Wales or N.I., just cos England has the populous numbers.

Some Scot folk make out that there has never been Scots controlling the union, really makes me .