Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[Neeranam]

Time to suspend democracy , exile Salmond and impose martial law till the rebellion is crushed. None of this Thai pussy footing todh khot stuff - full on English mediaval justice.

http://youtu.be/QiLatwTFUhw

The English or Westminster haven't changed much.

Here we are with the chance for freedom without fighting and half the country forget what our ancestors went through to fight for freedom.

[wilcopops]

people seem to forget - this isn't an election, it's a referendum, but either way the vote goes it is one of the most significant DEMOCRATIC events in British history for centuries.

Those who compared this to the process of succession of Ireland have failed to learn anything from history.

[nontabury]

What would indeed and in fact might well be an interesting situation is the position of the S.N.P.and its leadership if the outcome of this vote is ''NO.''

Will we see Salomd and his friends working together top heal the rift or will we see the birth of a movement dedicated to Scotland's independence and the using of somewhat more forceful arguments and actions to pursue their cause?

In truth the outcome for these people leading this campaign could be a political nationalistic snake pit irrespective of the votes outcome.

A no vote the political scrap heap a yes vote and of course promises have to be kept and policies pursued indeed a rocky road irrespective of what the result may be.

Be careful for that which you wish for, whichever way you may care to vote..

In the event of a "NO" vote the nationalist will still bang away at the same drum, putting all the blame for everything they don't like on the English, if a "YES" vote and things go belly up, who do you think the Nationalist will blame, themselves or the English?.

I think it's about time the rest of the UK started concentrating about itself and taking care of it's own, we can just stand back and watch in amusement at the chaos that will develop in a separated Scotland. Bring if on.

[wilcopops]

What would indeed and in fact might well be an interesting situation is the position of the S.N.P.and its leadership if the outcome of this vote is ''NO.''

Will we see Salomd and his friends working together top heal the rift or will we see the birth of a movement dedicated to Scotland's independence and the using of somewhat more forceful arguments and actions to pursue their cause?

In truth the outcome for these people leading this campaign could be a political nationalistic snake pit irrespective of the votes outcome.

A no vote the political scrap heap a yes vote and of course promises have to be kept and policies pursued indeed a rocky road irrespective of what the result may be.

Be careful for that which you wish for, whichever way you may care to vote..

In the event of a "NO" vote the nationalist will still bang away at the same drum, putting all the blame for everything they don't like on the English, if a "YES" vote and things go belly up, who do you think the Nationalist will blame, themselves or the English?.

I think it's about time the rest of the UK started concentrating about itself and taking care of it's own, we can just stand back and watch in amusement at the chaos that will develop in a separated Scotland. Bring if on.

Your view of the Union seems remarkably myopic and jaundiced.....in my experience - and with several examples on this thread alone - it is usually a substitute for any real understanding of what's going on.

[NanLaew]

What would indeed and in fact might well be an interesting situation is the position of the S.N.P.and its leadership if the outcome of this vote is ''NO.''

Will we see Salomd and his friends working together top heal the rift or will we see the birth of a movement dedicated to Scotland's independence and the using of somewhat more forceful arguments and actions to pursue their cause?

In truth the outcome for these people leading this campaign could be a political nationalistic snake pit irrespective of the votes outcome.

A no vote the political scrap heap a yes vote and of course promises have to be kept and policies pursued indeed a rocky road irrespective of what the result may be.

Be careful for that which you wish for, whichever way you may care to vote..

In the event of a "NO" vote the nationalist will still bang away at the same drum, putting all the blame for everything they don't like on the English, if a "YES" vote and things go belly up, who do you think the Nationalist will blame, themselves or the English?.

I think it's about time the rest of the UK started concentrating about itself and taking care of it's own, we can just stand back and watch in amusement at the chaos that will develop in a separated Scotland. Bring if on.

If you perceive this as a Scots versus English debate; then you are missing the plot entirely. It's a secessionist versus unionist debate.

The Daily Mail and other rags of that ilk like to make it a "them and us" war as pap for the largely clueless masses. They have been doing that since the FA did away with the Home Internationals, the traditional, annual home of British one-upmanship that the British working man and woman could relate with. Please don't take that as an insult; the elected heads of the current coalition like all their precedents, were similarly asleep at the wheel when it came to appreciating the depth of the Scots desire for a greater self determination. The fact is that the UK government seat is in London but it has moved so far away from representing the greater part of population of the UK including huge tracts of the English bits. You do not have to go too far north of the Watford Gap to feel a distinct dissonance with London's rule.

[inutil]

Wow, some fire and brimstone comments overnight then...

On Salmond and the massive exodus of business in Scotland: You might want to look again at Salmonds Scottish Socialist Utopia: As the Labour party rightly asked him (and he avoided answering): Where are these ECONOMIC redistributive measures. In fact, in the 7 years of SNP rule, wheres the redistribution to the poor? It seems his redistributive measures include a 3% drop in Corporation tax from rUK and an absolute cast iron guarantee that he wont raise the top level of tax to 50p.

Lucky for Scottish labour supporters in favour of independence and redistribution (and of course Alex Salmond, since he needs to convince them) that they realise this isnt a manifesto on the SNP then, isnt it? Its a referendum on independence. The referendum on the SNP and Alex Salmond will come in the 2016 elections.

On Business complaints about uncertainty... well these certainly ARE uncertain times. Fortune favours the brave, you speculate to accumulate, etc etc. If others more conservative are less willing to take that risk of a fully functioning state with a highly educated workforce sitting on pots of wealth with its own legal institutions and tax system already in place then i guess we'll just have to cope with their competitors looking for a piece of that pie. Business isnt a charity. It always amazes me that people only recognise the profit motive when it suits their argument. If theres money to be made, business will invest. If there isnt money to be made, theyll invest elsewhere. Youd think perhaps that one of the first orders of a new iScotland would be to calm the markets and reassure investors that Scotland is NOT going for renationalisation and is in actual fact still a vibrant market friendly nation.

But the SNP are talking about 'a day of reckoning'?

That was ONE GUY (Jim Sillars) who hates Alex Salmond anyway and was immediately smacked down by Alex Salmond as talking nonsense (and immediately back tracked by claiming he was offering a sensationalist headline SOLELY to reel in the fishies of sensationalist driven media for air time).

Now for the Anti-English rhetoric. I call complete and total bullshit on this one.

Well, maybe.

Because there IS an anti-English rhetoric if you twist it hard enough. But guess what? The English are spewing just as much anti-English rhetoric. Because this rhetoric is attacking the concentration of political, economic, and influential power of the South East to hold the rest of the country in thrall. If you dont think that the regions of the UK (by which i mean the North and the West) of ENGLAND dont feel that same impotency... indeed, If you dont think that the urban poor in London are feeling this as theyre priced out of their own city by rent inflation, checks on benefit, zero hour contracts, shit stagnant wages and competition for unprotected work, then youre missing the punchline.

Scotland has been attacking England for sure. But it has been attacking a political and economic elite who seem to be routinely pandered to and protected against the worst excesses of their own oligopoly capitalism. Again, where are the redistributive measures in the UK? Where are the redistributive measures to check these excesses in the 2015 general election? What are the labour party even doing to make a case to protect the working poor from their own rampant policies? More austerity? More benefits cuts? More flexibility in the job market (translation: less worker protection)? More right to buy of council homes (well, whats left) to alleviate the rent crisis affecting us all? Whoopdeedoo! lets get on that! theres no way that this, coupled to a lack of social housing, left us in a housing bubble that helps pretend we're in some kind of recovery whilst the spectre of negative equity once again looms over householders whilst in real terms the average person sees their cost of living increase and their wages remain stagnant.

If you think this is Scotland alone complaining about these problems however, then you have your head in the clouds. Not very patriotic of you to assume that England is all completely delighted by the concentration of wealth, opportunity, and economic activity in the south east and has nothing at all to complain about except the immigrants and the jocks who 'no longer love them'. This is a nationwide issue that transcends artificial national borders. Both Scotland and England (and Wales and Norther Ireland) have all been a party to these changes, and its not the case that the moment we cross the border opinion on their success suddenly shifts to the left. Scotland is no more left than England. The labour movement is just as much a product of Jarrow as it is the Clyde or the collieries of Wales. England is not one entity with a Thatcherite hive mind. The scottish referendum will be watched with great anticipation and hope in the regions of England as it is in Scotland without acrimony and with a desire that this dispersion of power also be reflected in the future make up of the rUK.

Edited September 15, 2014 by inutil

[smokie36]

You need only look at Westminster itself and their 10% pay rise this year to see the folly of this rule. Out of touch with the country?

Meanwhile most struggle by with no rise at all while the City of London bankers pick up six figure bonuses......very nice.

[onionluke]

[rott]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

You do seem to get around chief. According to Nontabury you were recently in the Channel Islands, according to you you were working in Bangkok last week, and where were these meetings you have been to? Glasgow? As well as claiming an encyclopaedic knowledge of Southern England, Greater Manchester, Arbroath and the bars and cafes of Bangkok you say that you spend most of your life in the On Nut beer garden. And still you can do all these posts on here. I don't know where you find the time.

[smokie36]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

You do seem to get around chief. According to Nontabury you were recently in the Channel Islands, according to you you were working in Bangkok last week, and where were these meetings you have been to? Glasgow? As well as claiming an encyclopaedic knowledge of Southern England, Greater Manchester, Arbroath and the bars and cafes of Bangkok you say that you spend most of your life in the On Nut beer garden. And still you can do all these posts on here. I don't know where you find the time.

Oh well such is life.....!

[NanLaew]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

The BBC just broadcast an in-depth look at Scotland's historical quest for self determination and chose to kick off with the Scots infamous and ill-planned colonial gamble in the late 1690's. Unfortunately, Scottish traders chose a supremely bad location for their central American port but the real agony was when the London-based East India Company pressured the English King to force both English and Dutch investors to withdraw, thus protecting their monopoly on global trade and ultimately forcing a broke and impoverished Scotland to join the Union.

The Darien scheme is a part of British history but unfortunately for the BBC, in their haste to catch up on said British history for Thursdays 'big day', they frequently refer to the location as being in Paraguay whereas it was in Panama.

And some complain that Americans are piss-poor at geography.

[rott]

And in reply to 7by7's question about the anti-BBC website the answer must be YES. ...Arf...Arf

Edited September 15, 2014 by rott

[nontabury]

Not as laughable as Whinge over Scotland's paranoia about media bias!

Are you in Scotland or any part of the UK?

Have you, personally, seen or heard any of the BBC's coverage?

Or are you basing your opinion on an anti BBC website?

I'm willing to wager you have spent less time in Scotland during this campaign than David Cameron!

I on the other hand have been to meetings and spoken to plenty of people at ground level....lots of YES campaigners and a few no as well.

Only a few no? you might ask....yes 7by7 only because they are far less visible in towns on Saturday mornings.....this campaign has been running for months already at this level.....and the YES campaign is gaining ground on the basis of talking to people as there is a cat in hell's chance of any kind of fair media representation.

Look at the pictures again and tell me the BBC were representative in their reporting.....oh and Buchanan St willl be full of YES supporters again today....let's see what the BBC make of that!

You do seem to get around chief. According to Nontabury you were recently in the Channel Islands, according to you you were working in Bangkok last week, and where were these meetings you have been to? Glasgow? As well as claiming an encyclopaedic knowledge of Southern England, Greater Manchester, Arbroath and the bars and cafes of Bangkok you say that you spend most of your life in the On Nut beer garden. And still you can do all these posts on here. I don't know where you find the time.

Smokie is not the only Nationalist who can be on opposite sides of the planet at the same time.

Awhile back one Nationalist managed to be on the Thai/ Myanmar boarder at the same time as he was attending a Nationalist rally in Scotland.

As for Smokie spending his time in the On-Nut beer garden, I've never seen him there, well not wearing a skirt anyway.

[smokie36]

You'll have to remind me of this post where I claimed to be in Bangkok last week.

I catch a whiff of BS coming from the opposition yet again.......

[Munsterman]

I am looking forward to getting my passport stamped at the gate in Hadrian's Wall.

[Chopperboy]

The Queen has said she hopes voters in the Scottish independence referendum will 'think very carefully about the future'.

Scotland you'd better be listening when this incredibly rich and powerful woman speaks...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-queen-remark-welcomed-no-vote

[sustento]

What she actually said was "Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future." which doesn't seem to me to favour one side or the other.

[Chopperboy]

What she actually said was "Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future." which doesn't seem to me to favour one side or the other.

Its coded, designed to be interpreted either way - but from a woman with her history I know which way I'd be taking it.

[nontabury]

I am looking forward to getting my passport stamped at the gate in Hadrian's Wall.

Better than the Antonine wall.

[Scott]

I strongly suggest that members stick to the topic and stop making personal remarks aimed at other posters. Suspensions will be given.

Please feel free to hit the report button for off-topic posts and the post and the poster will be dealt with accordingly.

Posts have been deleted.

[inutil]

Not just that, but really, whats the point? Every scottish person on here will have his facebook and twitter account hammered by family and friends back home telling them how it is on the ground. Its also a great bell weather on momentum if im honest. About a month ago it all changed. My mum and aunt started banging the independence drum (alongside my very radical sister, who im afraid HATES the English Something about a Wallace memorial in London. I dunno. Shes the nutter, not me). My mum is very much apolitical. She cares about one thing at the moment: Why do they keep raising her retirement age? Its driving her up the wall. But these lifelong labour supporters were starting to get annoyed and frustrated with the better together campaign and wondering if just maybe the PL werent screwing the over. There was a clear change happening for those perceptive enough to witness it. In the week running up to the Youguv poll last sunday my facebook wall was FILLED with the Saltire and all kinds of 'inspirational' quotes loosely connected to independence. And then, come last wednesday and the love bomb intervention and the momentum sort of dropped off. Sure, EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON I KNOW was banging on, but it seemed a little less euphoric and a little more "Come on!!!"

Cue this weekend and once again the tone has switched. Its full on again. Its back to euphoria and party time. Its a celebration because they really believe its coming.

Now if you dont have scottish mates, or only a few, you could be forgiven for not noticing it and having to rely on jocks in forums or the newspapers to try and explicate it. But its palpable. And its stronger and more determined than you maybe realise. Its not reflected in the papers. They dont really see it at all. Well, either that or theyre busy trying their damndest to stop what they can see clear as day. The momentum is terrifyingly strong. And its got almost a week left to reach a crescendo. The only way its being halted now is a real deal on the table (unlikely to happen even if the main parties wanted it and weren't just pulling it out of their arse), or if the movement turns ugly and alienates the waverers. That 93% already committed and wont change their minds... i dont honestly think so. After the scare of Thursday and the doubts, people clearly had their think on it. At the weekend they realised they wanted it. And a lot of them now have their fingers in their ears. I just cant see the No voters having that same drive and commitment on Thursday. Im contemplating the absurd possibility that it might actually be the No voters that bottle it at the polls. My mind is boggled.

Edited September 15, 2014 by inutil

[smokie36]

Aye my Facebook has been the same....its great to see family and friends who have never shown any interest in politics so energised!

[jpinx]

Not just that, but really, whats the point? Every scottish person on here will have his facebook and twitter account hammered by family and friends back home telling them how it is on the ground. Its also a great bell weather on momentum if im honest. About a month ago it all changed. My mum and aunt started baning the independence drum. My mum is very much apolitical. She cares about one thing at the moment: Why do they keep raising her retirement age. Its driving her up the wall. But these lifelong labour supporters were starting to get annoyed. There was a clear change happening for those perceptive enough to witness it. In the week running up to the Youguv poll last sunday my facebook wall was FILLED with the Saltire and all kinds of quotes loosely connected to independence. And then, come last wednesday and the love bomb intervention and the momentum sort of dropped off. Sure, EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON I KNOW was banging on, but it seemed a little less euphoric and a little more "Come on!!!"

Cue this weekend and once again the tones switched. Its full on again.

Now if you dont have scottish mates, or only a few you could be forgiven for not noticing it and having to rely on jocks in forums to try and explicate it. But its palpable. And its stronger and more determined than you maybe realise. Its not reflected in the papers. They dont really see it at all, or theyre busy trying their damndest to stop what they can see clear as day. The momentum is terrifyingly strong. And its got almost a week left to reach a crescendo. The only way its being halted now is a real deal on the table (unlikely to happen even if the main parties wanted it and weren't just pulling it out of their arse), or if the movement turns ugly and alienates the waverers. That 93% already committed and wont change their minds... i dont honestly think so. Theres a movement taking root. I think after the scare of Thursday and the doubts, people had their think on it. At the weekend though, they realised they wanted it and a lot of them now have their fingers in their ears. I just cant see the No voters having that same drive and commitment on Thursday. Im contemplating the absurd possibility that it might actually be the No voters that bottle it at the polls. My mind is boggled.

The reality is that 7% don't knows are going to make the decision -- that is not democracy

[nontabury]

Not just that, but really, whats the point? Every scottish person on here will have his facebook and twitter account hammered by family and friends back home telling them how it is on the ground. Its also a great bell weather on momentum if im honest. About a month ago it all changed. My mum and aunt started banging the independence drum (alongside my very radical sister, who im afraid HATES the English Something about a Wallace memorial in London. I dunno. Shes the nutter, not me). My mum is very much apolitical. She cares about one thing at the moment: Why do they keep raising her retirement age? Its driving her up the wall. But these lifelong labour supporters were starting to get annoyed and frustrated with the better together campaign and wondering if just maybe the PL werent screwing the over. There was a clear change happening for those perceptive enough to witness it. In the week running up to the Youguv poll last sunday my facebook wall was FILLED with the Saltire and all kinds of 'inspirational' quotes loosely connected to independence. And then, come last wednesday and the love bomb intervention and the momentum sort of dropped off. Sure, EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON I KNOW was banging on, but it seemed a little less euphoric and a little more "Come on!!!"

Cue this weekend and once again the tone has switched. Its full on again. Its back to euphoria and party time. Its a celebration because they really believe its coming.

Now if you dont have scottish mates, or only a few, you could be forgiven for not noticing it and having to rely on jocks in forums or the newspapers to try and explicate it. But its palpable. And its stronger and more determined than you maybe realise. Its not reflected in the papers. They dont really see it at all. Well, either that or theyre busy trying their damndest to stop what they can see clear as day. The momentum is terrifyingly strong. And its got almost a week left to reach a crescendo. The only way its being halted now is a real deal on the table (unlikely to happen even if the main parties wanted it and weren't just pulling it out of their arse), or if the movement turns ugly and alienates the waverers. That 93% already committed and wont change their minds... i dont honestly think so. After the scare of Thursday and the doubts, people clearly had their think on it. At the weekend they realised they wanted it. And a lot of them now have their fingers in their ears. I just cant see the No voters having that same drive and commitment on Thursday. Im contemplating the absurd possibility that it might actually be the No voters that bottle it at the polls. My mind is boggled.

A Very Good post, I suspect everything you say is spot on, now can you give us you're thoughts on WHY more people are deciding on a "YES". For instance are they basing their judgment on facts supplied by unbiased observers, by the Nationalist argument or on what they perceive as the negativity of the "NO" side.

[Chopperboy]

Not just that, but really, whats the point? Every scottish person on here will have his facebook and twitter account hammered by family and friends back home telling them how it is on the ground. Its also a great bell weather on momentum if im honest. About a month ago it all changed. My mum and aunt started baning the independence drum. My mum is very much apolitical. She cares about one thing at the moment: Why do they keep raising her retirement age. Its driving her up the wall. But these lifelong labour supporters were starting to get annoyed. There was a clear change happening for those perceptive enough to witness it. In the week running up to the Youguv poll last sunday my facebook wall was FILLED with the Saltire and all kinds of quotes loosely connected to independence. And then, come last wednesday and the love bomb intervention and the momentum sort of dropped off. Sure, EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON I KNOW was banging on, but it seemed a little less euphoric and a little more "Come on!!!"

Cue this weekend and once again the tones switched. Its full on again.

Now if you dont have scottish mates, or only a few you could be forgiven for not noticing it and having to rely on jocks in forums to try and explicate it. But its palpable. And its stronger and more determined than you maybe realise. Its not reflected in the papers. They dont really see it at all, or theyre busy trying their damndest to stop what they can see clear as day. The momentum is terrifyingly strong. And its got almost a week left to reach a crescendo. The only way its being halted now is a real deal on the table (unlikely to happen even if the main parties wanted it and weren't just pulling it out of their arse), or if the movement turns ugly and alienates the waverers. That 93% already committed and wont change their minds... i dont honestly think so. Theres a movement taking root. I think after the scare of Thursday and the doubts, people had their think on it. At the weekend though, they realised they wanted it and a lot of them now have their fingers in their ears. I just cant see the No voters having that same drive and commitment on Thursday. Im contemplating the absurd possibility that it might actually be the No voters that bottle it at the polls. My mind is boggled.

The reality is that 7% don't knows are going to make the decision -- that is not democracy

"Democracy is the most deceptive word in the English language" Bob Livingston

[smokie36]

Not just that, but really, whats the point? Every scottish person on here will have his facebook and twitter account hammered by family and friends back home telling them how it is on the ground. Its also a great bell weather on momentum if im honest. About a month ago it all changed. My mum and aunt started banging the independence drum (alongside my very radical sister, who im afraid HATES the English Something about a Wallace memorial in London. I dunno. Shes the nutter, not me). My mum is very much apolitical. She cares about one thing at the moment: Why do they keep raising her retirement age? Its driving her up the wall. But these lifelong labour supporters were starting to get annoyed and frustrated with the better together campaign and wondering if just maybe the PL werent screwing the over. There was a clear change happening for those perceptive enough to witness it. In the week running up to the Youguv poll last sunday my facebook wall was FILLED with the Saltire and all kinds of 'inspirational' quotes loosely connected to independence. And then, come last wednesday and the love bomb intervention and the momentum sort of dropped off. Sure, EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON I KNOW was banging on, but it seemed a little less euphoric and a little more "Come on!!!"

Cue this weekend and once again the tone has switched. Its full on again. Its back to euphoria and party time. Its a celebration because they really believe its coming.

Now if you dont have scottish mates, or only a few, you could be forgiven for not noticing it and having to rely on jocks in forums or the newspapers to try and explicate it. But its palpable. And its stronger and more determined than you maybe realise. Its not reflected in the papers. They dont really see it at all. Well, either that or theyre busy trying their damndest to stop what they can see clear as day. The momentum is terrifyingly strong. And its got almost a week left to reach a crescendo. The only way its being halted now is a real deal on the table (unlikely to happen even if the main parties wanted it and weren't just pulling it out of their arse), or if the movement turns ugly and alienates the waverers. That 93% already committed and wont change their minds... i dont honestly think so. After the scare of Thursday and the doubts, people clearly had their think on it. At the weekend they realised they wanted it. And a lot of them now have their fingers in their ears. I just cant see the No voters having that same drive and commitment on Thursday. Im contemplating the absurd possibility that it might actually be the No voters that bottle it at the polls. My mind is boggled.

A Very Good post, I suspect everything you say is spot on, now can you give us you're thoughts on WHY more people are deciding on a "YES". For instance are they basing their judgment on facts supplied by unbiased observers, by the Nationalist argument or on what they perceive as the negativity of the "NO" side.

Perhaps its the federalism Gordon Brown spoke of....taken a step further as the people feel their voices will be heard more in an independent Scotland?

[7by7]

What she actually said was "Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future." which doesn't seem to me to favour one side or the other.

Its coded, designed to be interpreted either way - but from a woman with her history I know which way I'd be taking it.

Her history?

A woman with a Scottish mother who loves Scotland and spends as much time there as she possibly can.

So, Chopperboy, which way are you taking her remark?

[nontabury]

What she actually said was "Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future." which doesn't seem to me to favour one side or the other.

Its coded, designed to be interpreted either way - but from a woman with her history I know which way I'd be taking it.

Her history?

A woman with a Scottish mother who loves Scotland and spends as much time there as she possibly can.

So, Chopperboy, which way are you taking her remark?

Was the late Queen Mother Scottish? I thought she was born and raised in England.

[jpinx]

I'd agree with the elusiveness of the definition of democracy, but let's not beat about the bush -- Scotland is just about to possibly declare UDI. Remember how that worked for Rhodesia?

Having said that -- remember that the Union is based on conquest and coercion -- it was not a happy alliance - check the history books written by Scottish historians. The Scots at that time and since, over the last 300-odd years - in their usual pragmatic way - accepted their situation, but now they have a chance to speak. The ties with England during the last 75-odd years do not lessen their dream of independence. Scottish regiments will make a superb defense force, already in place and ready to help out NATO; EU; etc as needed from day one.

UK made a huge blunder when they forced this YES/NO vote -- devomax would have won the day hands down -- but Westminster MPs' egos got in the way For that reason alone I hope Scotland goes independent and does some serious horse trading during the division of spoils. Westminster needs a serious lesson - they are not going to be holding all the aces (taxation) for long. Come on Cornwall, Yorkshire, et al -- go for devomax for the regions and strip Westminster of it's much abused power!

P.S. Catalonia, Brittany and others can do it too The EU will change if all the members are smaller, and there's lots of them

[7by7]

Some quotes removed to comply with forum software

Was the late Queen Mother Scottish? I thought she was born and raised in England.

Much of her childhhod was spent in England, but her family are Scottish.

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother was the mother of Queen Elizabeth II, the present British sovereign, and the widow of King George VI.

She was born the Honourable Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon on 4 August 1900 (fourth daughter of Lord Glamis, later 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne) and spent her early childhood at St Paul's Waldenbury in Hertfordshire, north of the capital. This was the country home of her parents.

The Bowes-Lyon family is descended from the Royal House of Scotland. One of The Queen Mother's 14th-century ancestors, Sir John Lyon, became Thane of Glamis, home of Macbeth 300 years before, and Glamis Castle is the family seat.

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Perhaps the Bowes-Lyon's preferred to live south of the border; just as so many of their fellow Scots do today!

Edited September 15, 2014 by 7by7