CIA tortured suspects 'until the point of death': report

[Lite Beer]

CIA tortured suspects 'until the point of death': report

LONDON - The CIA tortured Al-Qaeda suspects "until the point of death" by drowning them in water-filled baths, Britain's Daily Telegraph reported on Monday, ahead of the publication of a US Senate report on interrogation techniques.

The paper quoted one security source as saying the torture of at least two suspects, including the alleged mastermind of the September 11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, went far beyond the waterboarding admitted by the Central Intelligence Agency.

"They weren’t just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth," the paper quoted the source as saying, adding: "They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far."

A second source cited by the paper also spoke of the treatment meted out to Mohammed, who is in US military custody in Guantanamo Bay, as well as alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, who is also being held at the detention camp on Cuba.

"They got medieval on his ass, and far more so than people realise," the source, said to be familiar with the still-classified accounts of the torture, was quoted as saying.

An upcoming report by the US Senate based on a review of classified CIA documents would "deeply shock" the public because of its graphic portrayal of the extreme interrogation techniques used by the CIA, a third source said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/CIA-tortured-suspects-until-the-point-of-death-rep-30242820.html

-- The Nation 2014-09-08

[MJP]

They really should plug these leaks.

[Ulysses G.]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

[FritsSikkink]

They really should plug these leaks.

No leaks needed if they just behaved like human beings.

[manarak]

They really should plug these leaks.

yes...

although I would be interested in knowing if in these cases, the end really justified the means.

much much information could they extract from captives?

if no useful information can be extracted by torture, would the CIA still do it?

[boomerangutang]

I heard an interview with a young US military fellow who was appointed to be the attorney for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (note: US appoints attorneys to represent bad guys. Muslim extremists just lop off heads on Youtube).

Anyhow, the US attorney quit his assignment saying that he felt he couldn't get a fair trial for the accused. I think this article is taken from the same fellow, if not from the actual interview on NPR.

As much as I want to see justice bad guys get punished in these cases, I don't get behind extreme torture. Moderate torture, ok. Next question: where do you draw the line?

[Jdietz]

Anything other then the Comfy Chair is out.

[MJP]

They really should plug these leaks.

yes...

although I would be interested in knowing if in these cases, the end really justified the means.

much much information could they extract from captives?

if no useful information can be extracted by torture, would the CIA still do it?

No need to throw the Jihadi out with the bathwater.

[Globeman]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for him, but for a system that once aspired to humane practices that now appears to have degenerated to the point where torture is a normal and acceptable (at least to security authorities) procedure.

[wooloomooloo]

I hope this story is true.

[MJP]

Honestly, no one got my my bath joke? Plug, leaks etc.

It was superb and on so many levels.

[craigt3365]

A troll post has been removed from view. Topics about the US always brings out the trolls. Please stick to the topic, not the history of the world.

[lovetotravel]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for him, but for a system that once aspired to humane practices that now appears to have degenerated to the point where torture is a normal and acceptable (at least to security authorities) procedure.

Perhaps that's one of the problems today. We're too easy on those who harm others??? I'm no advocate of violence, but these guys had done some absolutely horrible things. Hard to believe anybody has compassion for them. Compassion should be directed towards the thousands who lost their lives due to them, and the 10's of thousands who lives were changed forever due to this.

[Jdietz]

Compassion isn't earned.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[GeorgeO]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for him, but for a system that once aspired to humane practices that now appears to have degenerated to the point where torture is a normal and acceptable (at least to security authorities) procedure.

Perhaps that's one of the problems today. We're too easy on those who harm others??? I'm no advocate of violence, but these guys had done some absolutely horrible things. Hard to believe anybody has compassion for them. Compassion should be directed towards the thousands who lost their lives due to them, and the 10's of thousands who lives were changed forever due to this.

We're not just talking about the ones they were "sure" had carried out these monstrous attacks against innocent civilians...! What about those who were "suspected" of being involved at different levels?

At what point do the interrogators start to discuss their doubts as to whether some guy - who has just been put through eight consecutive days of barbaric torture - may not actually have anything to say, because they have the wrong guy?

You cannot "untorture" someone whose live you have made a misery for so long ... all you will do is ensure that there is now one more terrorist to contend with after he has been released, because I'm damn sure if he wasn't a terrorist before, he would be afterwards...!

[BradinAsia]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

When we reach the point where we are willing to accept the idea of humans (even criminal suspects) being abused, tortured and treated more brutally than we would ever permit dogs to be treated -- then we have sunk to the depths of our most vile and evil enemy.

[John1012]

Good. But are there not drugs that can be administered to encourage truthful answers to questioning? Or is this a myth? Seems the use of drugs would be far easier than physical torture. I have no sympathy for those people who are involved in the cowardly destruction of human life for a false religious purpose. They reap what they sow.

[Ulysses G.]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

You're not supposed to feel sorry for him, but for a system that once aspired to humane practices that now appears to have degenerated to the point where torture is a normal and acceptable (at least to security authorities) procedure.

Right or wrong, torture during warfare for collecting intelligence has always been common, almost everywhere. As long as they stick to savages like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, most people probably think it is justified for the greater good.

[Ulysses G.]

Good. But are there not drugs that can be administered to encourage truthful answers to questioning? Or is this a myth? Seems the use of drugs would be far easier than physical torture. I have no sympathy for those people who are involved in the cowardly destruction of human life for a false religious purpose. They reap what they sow.

There are such drugs, but many of them would be a form of torture too.

[boomerangutang]

Good. But are there not drugs that can be administered to encourage truthful answers to questioning? Or is this a myth? Seems the use of drugs would be far easier than physical torture. I have no sympathy for those people who are involved in the cowardly destruction of human life for a false religious purpose. They reap what they sow.

There's a drug used in Colombia (no, not cocaine) which induces complete compliance by the taker. Besides being used for date-rapes, it's been used to get people to give all their possessions away. I jest not. It's called something like; 'barnoodagi'

[Thaiready]

They really should plug these leaks.

No leaks needed if they just behaved like human beings.

No torture needed if they acted like Human Beings.

[simple1]

The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

When we reach the point where we are willing to accept the idea of humans (even criminal suspects) being abused, tortured and treated more

brutally than we would ever permit dogs to be treated -- then we have sunk to the depths of our most vile and evil enemy.

From a US investigation into the use of torture:

The use of torture, the report concludes, has “no justification” and “damaged the standing of our nation, reduced our capacity to convey moral censure when necessary and potentially increased the danger to U.S. military personnel taken captive.” The task force found “no firm or persuasive evidence” that these interrogation methods produced valuable information that could not have been obtained by other means. While “a person subjected to torture might well divulge useful information,” much of the information obtained by force was not reliable, the report says.

It offers dozens of legal cases in which similar treatment was prosecuted in the United States or denounced as torture by American officials when used by other countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture-after-9-11-nonpartisan-review-concludes.html?pagewanted=all

[cooked]

The UK got through the Second World War without using torture, at least according to official orders from Churchill. It could be argued that the Nazis were worse than the Islamists.

[ggt]

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The CIA tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people. What a shame.

When we reach the point where we are willing to accept the idea of humans (even criminal suspects) being abused, tortured and treated more

brutally than we would ever permit dogs to be treated -- then we have sunk to the depths of our most vile and evil enemy.

Not quite...no one lopped off their heads...

[Ulysses G.]

The task force found no firm or persuasive evidence that these interrogation methods produced valuable information that could not have been obtained by other means.

IMO, this is politically correct hukum. Leon Panetta has said that waterboarding is torture and it's wrong. But he has also said that it yielded valuable information we might or might not have gotten some other way. At least he is being fairly honest about it.

[Ulysses G.]

The UK got through the Second World War without using torture, at least according to official orders from Churchill. It could be argued that the Nazis were worse than the Islamists.

Wrong. The British used torture/enhanced interrogation and Churchill knew about it.

How Torture Helped Win WWII

If anyone believes that SIS persuaded each of these 19 hard-bitten Nazi spies to fall in with Operation Fortitude by merely offering them tea, biscuits, and lectures in democracy, they’re being profoundly naïve. An SIS secret house located in Ham Common near Richmond on the outskirts of London was the location where the will of those agents was broken, using advanced interrogation techniques that reportedly started with sleep deprivation but went on to gross mental and physical abuse. The result? Many thousands of Allied servicemens’ lives were saved because the German 15th Army stayed well away from beaches such as Omaha, Utah, and Sword. And another 100,000 others were stationed in Norway for another attack that never came.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/05/13/how-torture-helped-win-wwii.html

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Good. But are there not drugs that can be administered to encourage truthful answers to questioning? Or is this a myth? Seems the use of drugs would be far easier than physical torture. I have no sympathy for those people who are involved in the cowardly destruction of human life for a false religious purpose. They reap what they sow.

It's currently a myth. Drugs are mind altering and can create psychosis and bipolar behavior, impair judgement, suppress or distort memory, etc. Drugs under the best conditions will elicit an output contaminated by deception, fantasy, garbled speech, impaired hearing, bodily dysfunction, etc. So any person administered drugs for "truth finding" would first have to have a complete psychological profile constructed to establish a mental baseline; and that requires a patient's honest cooperation - Catch 22. The best one can hope from drugs is to put a person at ease to the extent that would elicit cooperation; even then testimony from such state of mind must be independently verified, usually by Humanit sources - so what's the point?

[sawadeeken]

Good. But are there not drugs that can be administered to encourage truthful answers to questioning? Or is this a myth? Seems the use of drugs would be far easier than physical torture. I have no sympathy for those people who are involved in the cowardly destruction of human life for a false religious purpose. They reap what they sow.

I agree totally with 'they reap what they sow'............ Yes, give 'em a taste of their own medicine'................... But as for the truth drugs, these CIA people are not amateurs so....... I think that experience may have taught them that the drug don't always work or they would need to go no further than the drugs............. Give these CIA a little credit for being good at what they do (and I am 'all for' them doing 'what ever works') to stop re-occurances of terrorism. DON'T TIE THEIR HANDS and expect them to do a good job of protecting you. Think of it like this: if you had a 'body guard' to guard you while taking your daily deposit to the bank........... would you tie his hands behind his back and expect that he was going to save your ass from a robber. I DON'T THINK SO........ Sure, we find some law enforcement officials who abuse their authority and an innocent person suffers once in a while - but consider the percentages of those innocent vs. the innocent that died in the 'Twin Towers'......... Get 'real' and stop 'tying the hands' of those we want to protect us..................... I want them to do whatever they think will work to protect me and my family............ The occasional innocent casualty is a calculated risk (even if it is me) when it saves more lives than it costs...........

[Bernard Flint]

Thats awful,

They should bring in slow decapitation, that might work