Contract Negotiation for a Monkey's Uncle?

[Maroon Watcher]

Long story short..

I am leaving for family business ...

The Government school director is worried I won't return so I have been informed

that the New Junta government has set Native teachers salaries to 22K

But he will continue to pay me 27K if I sign again

He used to pay me 37K then suddenly dropped it when the junta took over...

Am I dealing with children or....

Can this be your Smile of the day.....?

[lostinisaan]

I didn't hear, nor read anything similar like this yet. If so, they'd shoot themselves in their foot and more and more people would just quit.

I couldn't support my family, making 22 K. Time for a "foreign teacher's Association", if your director's statement is true. -

[Maroon Watcher]

...Maybe it's the Director shooting his own foot....

It's very disrepectful and insulting,

especially as a similar was recruiting at 35K

(34K being what we verbally agreed last year)

Anyone else heard of Native speakers getting less!!

(Suitcases at the ready)

I didn't hear, nor read anything similar like this yet. If so, they'd shoot themselves in their foot and more and more people would just quit.

I couldn't support my family, making 22 K. Time for a "foreign teacher's Association", if your director's statement is true. -

[WonnabeBiker]

Of all the things I've heard and witnessed, that drop is quite extreme. But quoting some removed source (the junta or the remuneration committee) is something schools love to do. Besides starting the real negotiations after a teacher began working.

"Sorry, the remuneration committee can only agree to 18,000 Baht" they told the Chinese teachers they had hired @ 20 k. Or they hire x foreigners "for the semester" onlly to end their contracts in February. While students will have school in March...

A Cameroonian who had been making 25 k last year is now working somewhere for - unveriified - 12,000 B.

Some other school director's limit has been 15 k plus free housing. they got a NES for the school year ending 2012. The American had no degree and was working on a T-Visa. Next, some Cameroonian was hired who claimed to be a NES. No need to fret about his TOEIC score or degree or lack thereof as he was also on a T-Visa the whole year long.

The fish stinks from its head!

[aarontendo]

Haha I actually hope it's true. That would make me laugh my ass off.

[SlyAnimal]

Haha call his bluff, ask for a copy of the memo from the Junta

A change of this nature has to be put in writing, not just a verbal thing.

I don't think he'd be brave enough to forge an official document.

If he can't produce the memo, then the terms of your contract should still apply.

[lostinisaan]

...Maybe it's the Director shooting his own foot....

It's very disrepectful and insulting,

especially as a similar was recruiting at 35K

(34K being what we verbally agreed last year)

Anyone else heard of Native speakers getting less!!

(Suitcases at the ready)

I didn't hear, nor read anything similar like this yet. If so, they'd shoot themselves in their foot and more and more people would just quit.

I couldn't support my family, making 22 K. Time for a "foreign teacher's Association", if your director's statement is true. -

It certainly seems to be a lie. Best would be, to say goodbye and look for a good/better paid job.

He might want to buy a new car/Mia Noi, etc and needs some cash.

Even if they'll find somebody working for that amount, just don't do it. Let all the parents know about his plans, as they're the ones who've got most say.

[aarontendo]

Foreign teachers association? Hell any chance of unionization would fall apart with the cameroonians and filipinos working 15k a month. I mean I hate to put it so bluntly but that's pretty much it, right?

I remember when I was in Korea and there was talk about letting filipinos and indians come teach...well guys there goes any chance of increases in salary for the next twenty years.

[gomangosteen]

Related to this topic - we have recently hosted a teacher here (from NZ).

Hadn't met him previously but knew a family member and gave some advice/info on our area before he made the move, this from a job advert for a May commencement that had not been filled.

He was sent the documents to get his Non-Immigrant B visa from Thai Embassy in Wellington NZ, including a signed contract stating salary 40,000 baht per month.

He duly arrived end of July, went on some outings with the school (a private school, no religious affiliation) and was 'guest of honour' at last month's Queen's Birthday/Mothers' Day event at the school. All looking good.

He went to the Education Dept (I don't know, presume this is standard?) for an interview, came away with their letter of support/recommendation.

Next step Labour Dept accompanied by a School Director.

This is where things get unclear. Labour Dept person and School Director left him for a private room, came back and said 'more papers needed' and 'we'll come back in two days'.

Two days later, presented with a new contract to sign - salary 25,000.

School Director said that was now the rate for a foreign English teacher, and that they could hire a Filipino for less.

His guess (and it is a guess), was that this was done on Labour Dept's advice.

No point in arguing. he simply stood up, walked away and rode his rental motorbike back to our place. Returned all the books, CDs, DVDs he'd bought back from the school for his class preparation, rode to school and handed the bag to the teacher on gate duty.

School Director rung with a parting shot 'You have to leave the country you have no Visa'

He has decided against teaching in Thailand; using the balance of his allowable time 'on tour' within the country.

Back teaching in NZ in the new year.

***********

? in unlikely event he's asked to produce his passport/visa - is there any issue? It has a 90-day expiry date from his arrival, his plan is simply to say my work permit is being processed.

It does have the school's name on it - but what chance they would check?

and - if a change of heart, could he apply for a job with another school while on this Non-Imm B issued in name of the local school?

thanks if someone could respond to this last bit

*************

What could he have done differently?

It was going well till that Labour Dept meeting; we do feel 'responsible' having promoted the area as a good place to live, visited the school and sent him photos etc.

[TerryLH]

As long as he is on a visa and not an extension, he can stay until the date he was stamped in for.

No problem applying for and accepting a job anywhere else. If he was on an extension he'd have to leave when the job ended.

Some schools don't know that, and others do, but hope the employee doesn't. That's why some schools want the employees who currently have an O based on marriage to change to a Non B. They think they have more control.

The figures that have been posted, 22k and 25k sound like what the government is going to give the school for their foreign teacher. If the school wants to pay more they have to find the funds another way, usually by charging the parents a small fee each term. It's been that way since at least 1995 (when I first became aware of it).

[Maroon Watcher]

I heard this was the case - charging parents

And many people with hands in the Till - seems normal

My contract was due just after the change of leadership - hence the the sudden drop drop in salary.

But I bet the fingers will be in the Till again and I will not get the salary agreed at original.interview

If so I will be leaving Thailand

As long as he is on a visa and not an extension, he can stay until the date he was stamped in for.
No problem applying for and accepting a job anywhere else. If he was on an extension he'd have to leave when the job ended.
Some schools don't know that, and others do, but hope the employee doesn't. That's why some schools want the employees who currently have an O based on marriage to change to a Non B. They think they have more control.

The figures that have been posted, 22k and 25k sound like what the government is going to give the school for their foreign teacher. If the school wants to pay more they have to find the funds another way, usually by charging the parents a small fee each term. It's been that way since at least 1995 (when I first became aware of it).

[meand]

If the schools can't afford to pay teachers, then they don't get them. Oh wait, there are people out there that will work for these amounts, strike that.

[casualbiker]

MW. Just find a different job!

[brianp0803]

I heard many"better" government schools charge extra for more time with foreign teacher or better text books

[WonnabeBiker]

Related to this topic - we have recently hosted a teacher here (from NZ).

Hadn't met him previously but knew a family member and gave some advice/info on our area before he made the move, this from a job advert for a May commencement that had not been filled.

He was sent the documents to get his Non-Immigrant B visa from Thai Embassy in Wellington NZ, including a signed contract stating salary 40,000 baht per month.

He duly arrived end of July, went on some outings with the school (a private school, no religious affiliation) and was 'guest of honour' at last month's Queen's Birthday/Mothers' Day event at the school. All looking good.

He went to the Education Dept (I don't know, presume this is standard?) for an interview, came away with their letter of support/recommendation.

Next step Labour Dept accompanied by a School Director.

This is where things get unclear. Labour Dept person and School Director left him for a private room, came back and said 'more papers needed' and 'we'll come back in two days'.

Two days later, presented with a new contract to sign - salary 25,000.

School Director said that was now the rate for a foreign English teacher, and that they could hire a Filipino for less.

His guess (and it is a guess), was that this was done on Labour Dept's advice.

No point in arguing. he simply stood up, walked away and rode his rental motorbike back to our place. Returned all the books, CDs, DVDs he'd bought back from the school for his class preparation, rode to school and handed the bag to the teacher on gate duty.

School Director rung with a parting shot 'You have to leave the country you have no Visa'

He has decided against teaching in Thailand; using the balance of his allowable time 'on tour' within the country.

Back teaching in NZ in the new year.

***********

? in unlikely event he's asked to produce his passport/visa - is there any issue? It has a 90-day expiry date from his arrival, his plan is simply to say my work permit is being processed.

It does have the school's name on it - but what chance they would check?

and - if a change of heart, could he apply for a job with another school while on this Non-Imm B issued in name of the local school?

thanks if someone could respond to this last bit

*************

What could he have done differently?

It was going well till that Labour Dept meeting; we do feel 'responsible' having promoted the area as a good place to live, visited the school and sent him photos etc.

Thanks for sharing. I can so relate! With hindsight, that's what I should have done... They play these games. At my school, they cut NAS' salarys from 28,500 to 25,000. But then, the guy from Sierra Leone (country changed) with a TOEIC score of < 550 has been sending home 20 k a month and he's happy. But is the school getting a good deal?!?

[Maroon Watcher]

sooo Just listening to peoples replies (Thanks)

Here is my reply: (Junta & Education Department, Listen up)

I would like to quote a student of mine today: (on hearing that I may be leaving) to my line Manager (Unpaid/Overworked)

"Of all the teachers I have had (ALL? She is only/just 20 in a Government school)...

He is the best. He really helped me...
(How could I, she was always surrounded? by students who were totally [programed/ordered to be] uninterested,
or on some activity or other - showing the school was good...?)

she continued: "he really makes [helps] me understand [Real/Practical] English,
so it is easy for me [to understand how to pronounce and speak]"

(There was more but ...)

The best Thai teachers speak excellent English but Have NO grammar -
hey so what, they can be perfectly understood...

and then I met acontingent from an "equivalent" school in.... Cambodia ...

who spoke near perfect English - observed (international) courtesies [no hierarchy deference’s]

and concentrated on exchange of ideas and observances of student studies -

Oh dear - may this be my epitaph (To add to the rest)...

And NO I do Not feel honoured to have visited Thailand as a Guest OR a Giver....

[Mencken]

I don't understand all this. Decide what wage you aare eilling to work for, sign that into a contract. If they switch it up on the Thai contract and you receive less in you pay, politely tell them they have until next pay period to back pay and full pay according to terms they signed. In writing, notice to vacate position according to contract. If that doesn't happen, leave.

Go to labor board, get your money.

Leave Thailand. What are you people doing here making under 40k anyway &lt;deleted&gt;. 28k for 40 hours teaching 50 kids, plans, exams, reoprts. 28, 25k 555.

[WonnabeBiker]

As long as he is on a visa and not an extension, he can stay until the date he was stamped in for.

No problem applying for and accepting a job anywhere else. If he was on an extension he'd have to leave when the job ended.

Some schools don't know that, and others do, but hope the employee doesn't. That's why some schools want the employees who currently have an O based on marriage to change to a Non B. They think they have more control.

The figures that have been posted, 22k and 25k sound like what the government is going to give the school for their foreign teacher. If the school wants to pay more they have to find the funds another way, usually by charging the parents a small fee each term. It's been that way since at least 1995 (when I first became aware of it).

Disclaimer: it's hearsay - but I've read on another forum that someone who saw documents stated the amoutn paid for a NES being considerably higher than "25 k". Just saying.

Wish there was a definite answer!

[gomangosteen]

^ point out/remind that the example I gave of this man's salary offer reducing from 40,000 to 25,000 baht per month was from a private school with fee-paying parents, not a government school. The only government involvement would be the woman from the Labour Dept who offered her 'advice' to the school director on what was the appropriate salary.

I'd love to know what 'story' has been told to the parents about him.

He'd met all the (apparently) important ones at the Queen's Birthday/Mothers' Day function and featured in all the professionally-taken teacher team photos that day.

The school didn't appear to be lacking funds; well-equipped rooms, a 20m swimming pool (and coach!), sports field, fleet of minivans for school trips.

Anyway, for the sake of that 15,000 per month they remain without an English teacher.

Have since been told their previous 'teacher', Mr Robert, was not work-permitted and worked for 200b cash per hour.

[Maroon Watcher]

To be clear they changed my pay at the second contract (Just after the Junta take over - I think that had a lot to do with it)

They reduced my salary and contract length - giving me 10 days to Visa expiry. (Without the slightest discussion)

We were told to Take it or leave it and vacate the apartment in 5 days
(I was told much later that he was just panicking, he didn't really mean it - how were we to know?)

Recently I saw a job email - offering 35K - WP paid + holidays. (Government High school)

So if they can pay - why can't this school

I originally settled for 33K - expecting to renegotiate the second contract to my requested 34K.

(I'm not here for the money - but I am not working for less...)

Ha ha even then they said I had to sign a contract then go to Laos, I would be paid...

but when I got back they deducted pay because they couldn't give me a contract when I was on entry visa.

(But it was OK to teach...?)

(& there's lots more...)

So now I'm on Bereavement leave to go out of the country - when I asked for my pay to date,

they offered that I resign and re-sign a new contract when I get back... (Despite my contract, I will then pay for a New visa and WP again...)

Native Teacher
All bells and whistles

9 years teaching in ASIA

[WonnabeBiker]

I don't understand all this. Decide what wage you aare eilling to work for, sign that into a contract. If they switch it up on the Thai contract and you receive less in you pay, politely tell them they have until next pay period to back pay and full pay according to terms they signed. In writing, notice to vacate position according to contract. If that doesn't happen, leave.

Go to labor board, get your money.

Leave Thailand. What are you people doing here making under 40k anyway <deleted>. 28k for 40 hours teaching 50 kids, plans, exams, reoprts. 28, 25k 555.

The Labour Board may tell you that they are not gonna get involved, period. Nor will Labour Court do more than point you to Administrative Court (if you are fighting a government school).

Few do it for the money. It can be totally rewarding. Usually, it is, despite admin and attempts to reduce one's salary.

***

OT: the first Thai I ever had dealings with was an engineer making 50,000 Baht. He drove a VW Passat and I could save him 67% on OEM parts. He would have me bring in a lot of stuff. Helicopter simulator with pedals and all etc. But then some pattern emerged. He would always somehow rip me off, short-change me or pay a fraction of the agreed price. (Never a mark-up - it was not something i did to make a quick buck).

Possibly, this is a clever Thai's way - starting the negotiations after the other side has delivered the goods? (Here on TV, there was a story about high end microphones and how much those cost... Delivered prior to the paperwork having been signed).

Someone who has been here for long may elucidate this further.