500 baht breakage charge in Restaurant.....

[richard_smith237]

No Poll is perfect: There will be plenty of options - feel free to discuss - for the purposes of the poll pls choose which best fits your opinion.

My Wife and I eat out regularly..... however, we don't usually break stuff. Unfortunately this time our infant Son knocked a sauce jug off the table.

We were careful, but not enough. As we were putting our little one into his push chair his wondering hand knocked the jug off the table.

We never expected to see a charge for the Small Soy Sauce Jug.... We were presented with a 3000 baht bill, 500 baht of which was for the sauce bottle.

This is a high end Japanese Restaurant on Thonglor Soi 25. We've been repeat customers for over 5 years. We've taken numerous friends there, often in large groups often with bills exceeding 25,000 baht.

That said, its irrelevant if we are repeat customers or not - IMO charging a customer for minor breakage is an insult.

I was unable to speak with the manager who was offsite and not answering their phone, I was unable to contact the owner. I have no way of explaining to the Manager or owner why I'm insulted at this policy.

The waitress informed us that if I will not pay the charge, she would have to. I'm not sure if this is true or not. Nevertheless, I paid the bill (and charge) and asked the staff to pass onto their Manager my reasons for not returning in future.

Now... Rant over: I'm wondering what the thoughts of TV members are:

Is it considered reasonable to be expected to pay for minor accidental breakage in a restaurant ?

Edited September 11, 2014 by richard_smith237

[rgs2001uk]

Total BS, sounds to me like nothing more than a scammer/chancer trying their luck.

I have never heard of such a thing in Thailand, that being said I dont disbelief you for reasons mentioned in opening sentence.

Years ago I was in the Phillipines attending a friends wedding, friend presented with a bill of 200 pesos for his young kid breaking a glass, "in the Phillpines this is our way, you must understand sir" was what he was told.

He paid the 200 pesos bill and said no problem in my country its our way to check out.

There were from memory about 30 rooms booked for the wedding at a cost of about 2,000 pesos for the night, times 7 nights (work it out yourself).

Friend phoned me and said, CHECK OUT NOW, I was most pissed off, I was sleeping off a hangover and didnt fancy the move up the road.

Talk about FACE, the dumb manager said nothing, and would rather lose business and customers along with word of mouth than side with farang over a fellow Pinoy, my attitude these days is name and shame em, e f f em

When their poxy business goes bust som nam na, get on Trip Advisor and out this joint, utterly disgusting.

[richard_smith237]

Total BS, sounds to me like nothing more than a scammer/chancer trying their luck.

I have never heard of such a thing in Thailand, that being said I dont disbelief you for reasons mentioned in opening sentence.

Years ago I was in the Phillipines attending a friends wedding, friend presented with a bill of 200 pesos for his young kid breaking a glass, "in the Phillpines this is our way, you must understand sir" was what he was told.

He paid the 200 pesos bill and said no problem in my country its our way to check out.

There were from memory about 30 rooms booked for the wedding at a cost of about 2,000 pesos for the night, times 7 nights (work it out yourself).

Friend phoned me and said, CHECK OUT NOW, I was most pissed off, I was sleeping off a hangover and didnt fancy the move up the road.

Talk about FACE, the dumb manager said nothing, and would rather lose business and customers along with word of mouth than side with farang over a fellow Pinoy, my attitude these days is name and shame em, e f f em

When their poxy business goes bust som nam na, get on Trip Advisor and out this joint, utterly disgusting.

This restaurant is too successful to go bust, the food is also excellent (hence my repeat custom).

I just can't figure out the disconnect in charging a customer for accidental breakage - IMO is pretty much stinks.

Its a shame there wasn't a way to let the owner know without going to too much effort - A TripAdvisor report is as much time and effort as I'm going to spend on a complaint before letting it go and going back to enjoying myself.

A good restaurant off the list - luckily in Bangkok there are a many many more good choices.

This Poll is to see if my ideals are not way off the mark with other expats.

[SoiBiker]

Sounds fair - you broke it.

You asked for our thoughts. Mine is "what a big fuss over 500 baht!".

[richard_smith237]

Sounds fair - you broke it.

You asked for our thoughts. Mine is "what a big fuss over 500 baht!".

As with many of these issues over small amounts of money - The fuss was not about the money, but about a principle....

Part of me agrees - The 500 baht charge is fair... I broke it, I'm sure many others would agree.

In a Mom and Pop cafe where budget is the key and a broken ornamental jug worth 500 baht is a more than the cost of a meal I may be inclined to agree as it impacts their bottom line (that said, if charged I wouldn't return)

However, in a successful restaurant I'm inclined to feel that accidental breakage is part of the business model, that significant accidental breakage should be insured against.

I've been a partner in a business in Bangkok (Night Club) - minor breakage was simply a factor of doing business, the large windows etc were insured,

[SoiBiker]

I'd have offered to pay. As a matter of principle.

[yankee99]

In thailand i have seen the staff charged for broken dishes so i can cfm this. I dont think you should be charged but seems it is policy at some thai restaurants. 500 sounds like a lot it must have been fancy china

[richard_smith237]

In thailand i have seen the staff charged for broken dishes so i can cfm this. I dont think you should be charged but seems it is policy at some thai restaurants. 500 sounds like a lot it must have been fancy china

It was china.... I doubt its value was 500 baht but it was part of a set possibly imported from Japan.... the money wasn't really the issue.

I found it extremely unfair that the restaurant would have charged the staff, also insulting that they'd charge me, especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

And as SoiBiker commented - Perhaps I should have offered to pay for the damage.... But, I wouldn't expect to be charged for something like this in a 5 star hotel and neither do I expect it in a restaurant of equal standard.

[FarangWorld]

I don't understand what the issue is. You are entering someone's establishment and you break something, of course you're going to have to pay. Regardless whether that establishment is successful or not.

I'm sure if you invited someone into your house and they break something, you would want them to pay for it.

[SoiBiker]

...especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

How does that make any sense?

Next time I'm in a restaurant, can I just steal a few hundred baht from the till because the profit from my meal covers it?

[Briggsy]

The custom in this country is, "You break it, you pay for it."

In the UK, generally not.

So you should pay in this case.

[richard_smith237]

...especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

How does that make any sense?

Next time I'm in a restaurant, can I just steal a few hundred baht from the till because the profit from my meal covers it?

Many businesses factor 'breakage' into their profit margins... in this case a single meal may have covered it - that was the only point to be made from that comment.

Theft and accidental breakage are both morally and legally very different, while I understand your point, it is very flawed.

I'm sure the staff accidentally break items when moving tables, washing up etc... I'm also against them being charged. The business should take the hit and factor into their costs many things such as accidental damage, wastage (uneaten stock), etc etc...

[yankee99]

I don't understand what the issue is. You are entering someone's establishment and you break something, of course you're going to have to pay. Regardless whether that establishment is successful or not.

I'm sure if you invited someone into your house and they break something, you would want them to pay for it.

I would never expect a visitor that has a accident in my house to pay for the damage. Nor do i believe if i was in any of my friends house would they. I guess it must be in the environment you were raised in.

[CWMcMurray]

Agree with the OP and wouldn't return to any restaurant with this type of policy either... Used to work in a restaurant when in high school / college in the US and no employee or customer would have ever been charges for any "non malicious" breakage...

Accidents do happen and unavoidable cost of

Business ..

Only exception would be if the breakage was intentional

[FarangWorld]

I don't understand what the issue is. You are entering someone's establishment and you break something, of course you're going to have to pay. Regardless whether that establishment is successful or not.

I'm sure if you invited someone into your house and they break something, you would want them to pay for it.

I would never expect a visitor that has a accident in my house to pay for the damage. Nor do i believe if i was in any of my friends house would they. I guess it must be in the environment you were raised in.

Strangers, yes. Friends, not in a million years.

[richard_smith237]

I don't understand what the issue is. You are entering someone's establishment and you break something, of course you're going to have to pay. Regardless whether that establishment is successful or not.

I'm sure if you invited someone into your house and they break something, you would want them to pay for it.

When I go to a friends house and take a bottle of wine, they don't charge me corkage !... Business / Private are two very different relationships.

Its often happened when a decent wine glass gets knocked over at my place. I'd never expect my friends to pay for the glass or even offer to.

FarangWorld - I hope you wouldn't really ask one of your friends to pay for a wine glass he accidentally knocked over at your place ?

Yes - we're getting slightly off topic, but as with all discussions there are a some different and interesting arguments and opinions...

Thanks for the input...

[Triplebank999]

It was china.... I doubt its value was 500 baht but it was part of a set possibly imported from Japan.... the money wasn't really the issue.

I found it extremely unfair that the restaurant would have charged the staff, also insulting that they'd charge me, especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

And as SoiBiker commented - Perhaps I should have offered to pay for the damage.... But, I wouldn't expect to be charged for something like this in a 5 star hotel and neither do I expect it in a restaurant of equal standard.

"...the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage."

How much profit did your meal provide the restaurant?

[richard_smith237]

It was china.... I doubt its value was 500 baht but it was part of a set possibly imported from Japan.... the money wasn't really the issue.

I found it extremely unfair that the restaurant would have charged the staff, also insulting that they'd charge me, especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

And as SoiBiker commented - Perhaps I should have offered to pay for the damage.... But, I wouldn't expect to be charged for something like this in a 5 star hotel and neither do I expect it in a restaurant of equal standard.

"...the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage."

How much profit did your meal provide the restaurant?

I can only guess... 25% would be my estimate... and I doubt the cost of replacing the item was really 500 baht (again thats just a guess).

Loss of future custom will cost a business more.

[Jingthing]

It was china.... I doubt its value was 500 baht but it was part of a set possibly imported from Japan.... the money wasn't really the issue.

I found it extremely unfair that the restaurant would have charged the staff, also insulting that they'd charge me, especially when considering the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage.

And as SoiBiker commented - Perhaps I should have offered to pay for the damage.... But, I wouldn't expect to be charged for something like this in a 5 star hotel and neither do I expect it in a restaurant of equal standard.

"...the profit from our meal would have covered the cost of the damage."

How much profit did your meal provide the restaurant?

He can't possibly know that.

Typical food cost at restaurants is about 30 percent of charges but of course these businesses have expenses above the food. Like breakage.

Profit is not based on a single customer but overall costs and expenses over time.

For all we know, the place is bleeding money.

Many restaurants are which explains how often they go out of business.

I agree with the OP ... it is bad business PR practice to charge for breakage ... especially if the charge is suspiciously inflated.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[farang000999]

If it was imported from Japan it could easily cost a few hundred baht, and the extra charge is for inconvenience. if you order coke, it costs more than what it costs at 7/11, yes?

[balo]

It doesnt matter if you're a returning customer or not , maybe if you were a friend of the manager you would have got away with it , but the general rule is if you break something then you pay for it since the staff normally will have to pay for any damage caused by the customers that they serve , Having said that , 500 baht sounds a bit too much for a small jug.

[millwall_fan]

I broke a coffee mug in my hotel room at the Centara hotel in Khon Kaen a month or so back. When I checked out they tried to charge me 300 baht for it. I refused to pay and offered them 40 baht (my estimate of the cost of replacing the (non brand named) mug)). I was expecting a compromise deal to be struck around the 100 baht mark, but in the end they drew up a bill saying I refused to pay. I wrote on the same bill that I had not refused just offered less than they asked and everyone was happy. Businesses (and I am a former business owner in Thailand) should factor breakages - other than malicious one - into their costings.

[keemapoot]

I don't think the OP objects to paying a breakage charge, the issue is one of reasonability of that charge. On its face, in Thailand, that charge seems excessive. However, as OP himself pointed out, that bottle may have been part of a set imported from Japan of high end sauce, and the set must now be replaced. If the replacement cost is somewhat near 500 Baht, including some surcharge then the breakage charge is reasonable.

We're not talking about a bottle of Maggi sauce on a street stall that's worth 13 Bath.

[South]

If you break something, pay for it, simple! The charge might have been a little excessive but factor in that it may well have been part of a set, the inconvenience of having to find a replacement etc etc and it is not excessive at all. Accidents happen but if they happen on a daily basis, the costs incurred soon mount up. I am sure next time - you will be even more careful.

[SoiBiker]

Or, you know, maybe just don't take a baby to a high-end restaurant?

[iancnx]

I would have refused to pay it. End of!

[keemapoot]

I would have refused to pay it. End of!

Really? Would you feel the same in a high end Italian restaurant where you accidentally break a bottle of rare and expensive Sicilian virgin olive oil, or in a restaurant where you break an expensive china dish?

I can see saying no to those things often in other countries, but in Thailand, remember that most imported stuff is a lot more expensive, so we do have to consider that factor.

**However, in this case I agree the charge shouldn't have been made seeing as how the OP is a regular and frequent customer. Not good business to charge someone like that.

Edited September 12, 2014 by keemapoot

[konying]

I think it's ok to charge for whatever is broken, however the amount is very inflated .

If I was OP, I would try to contact the owner or manager

[Diplomatico]

I would have refused to pay it. End of!

Really? Would you feel the same in a high end Italian restaurant where you accidentally break a bottle of rare and expensive Sicilian virgin olive oil, or in a restaurant where you break an expensive china dish?

Except......that's not what happened.

[keemapoot]

I would have refused to pay it. End of!

Really? Would you feel the same in a high end Italian restaurant where you accidentally break a bottle of rare and expensive Sicilian virgin olive oil, or in a restaurant where you break an expensive china dish?

Except......that's not what happened.

What happened is that the OP enjoyed a 3,000 Baht meal for 2 1/2 people, so we can assume the sauce was not bought at Makro thai section?

Edited September 12, 2014 by keemapoot