David Haines's 'evil murder' condemned by PM Cameron

[Baerboxer]

Soon, those beheading and killing by ISIS wannabee and copy cast, will be on the UK door steps,

and maybe than, after disturbing the English from their tea and crumpets, they will finally realize

that the UK, together with a number or other European and Scandinavians countries, that is too late

and the radical Islam already deeply spread, rooted and supported by the Muslim populations in those

countries like a stage 4 cancer, not much can be done now, but to go down seriously hard on

those terrorist and their supports and eliminate them once and for all.....

There are many, many decent Islam followers, who would never dream of breaking the law or acting like this.

Unfortunately it is the more radical fanatical extremeists who hi-jack the communities and get themselves in the 'leadership" roles. We've experienced barbarity on the streets, the demanding of Sharia law for their community, demanding of traditional religions and their ceremonies being removed from schools, take overs or strong influence exerted on some school governing bodies, the creation of "whites" no go areas in some cities and towns, and the disgusting rise in cases of young non Moslem girls being groomed and sexually abused by gangs of Moslen Asian men, often under the eye of police and social services who were too scared to act.

Now we have the phenomenon of people who were born/grew up in Western countries and profited from all those countries gave them in terms of health, opportunity, education, turning against those countries and murdering people who are not Moslem.

I agree the time as come to stop this, once and for all, even if it means dropping your bagel and lemon tea too. No more liberal PC mamby pampby do gooder twaddle. They have shown over and over that will be simply taken advantage of.

[Baerboxer]

The RAF will be in action before the months out, UKSF are already in action

It's far from a small bombing campaign, I'm in Iraq right now, and the Int reports we get are a lot more detailed than the average civvy is getting.

Watch your back Jimmy.

An ex Black Watch acquaintance is also back out their again soon.

Hope your well away from the ISIS areas.

[Baerboxer]

when is the world going to stand up to islam and wipe this murderous cult from the face of the planet.

How long will it be before the usual radical Islamic apologists appear, trying to minimize this, blame it on the UK or pointing at Christian atrocities from hundreds of years ago as a justification for this barbarity. We have already heard from the conspiracy theory brigade.

Give it a rest UG, we all know you will foam at the mouth over every crime committed by Muslim's, and defend Israel no matter what crime they commit.

I can't get worked up over the execution of this man, when we the west are responsible for the catastrophe the middle east has become.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the Zionist UG. He will defend the Israeli terrorists at every opportunity through either ignorance or bias, I don't know which. But this man was innocent and did not deserve to die this way regardless of what western governments have perpetrated.

Israeli terrorists - They were an elected government of a sovereign state last time I checked. Democracy protecting its people. Have they gone too far - undoubtedly on occasions. But, as a government they protect their people, as does Mr. Putin.

ISIS - not elected by anyone but a group of murdering criminals who will torture, rape and butcher any who dare hold a religious view that is different to theirs or refuse to submit to their views. Like all rabid animals, they need to be put down.

The IDF have, rightly been criticized for some of their tactics and carelessness. The people of Israel can decide on the government at the next election.

However, I don't believe the IDF have massacred vast numbers of innocent people, some horrifically, executed prisoners of war en masse after humiliating them and raped countless women in the way ISIS have.

This post is about the vile execution of an aid worker by a group of terrorist fanatics, Nothing to do with Israel.

[Ulysses G.]

This post is about the vile execution of an aid worker by a group of terrorist fanatics, Nothing to do with Israel.

Exactly, but the usual apologists for radical Islam always have to point at someone else - anyone else. The barbaric ISLAMIC state murdered this innocent man in cold blood and filmed it to hurt his family and friends. THAT is what this thread is about.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Chris Lawrence]

There are some video content on the web showing what these Pr^cks do.

These guys are at war with the world. Am against capital punishment; but in times of war do unto others as they are wanting to do to you. I just hope the drones with their smart bombs can hit the spot and wipe these animals out.

[chooka]

when is the world going to stand up to islam and wipe this murderous cult from the face of the planet.

How long will it be before the usual radical Islamic apologists appear, trying to minimize this, blame it on the UK or pointing at Christian atrocities from hundreds of years ago as a justification for this barbarity. We have already heard from the conspiracy theory brigade.

One usually only pre-empts the pastor's sermon when they are in a hurry to get to the sacramental wine.

what?????

What abut the vast majority of the worlds society that don't believe in imaginary friends.

? A lot of people see things and have friends come to them in the night. Up to them if they are happy in a woerd sort of world.

[iancnx]

italy danmark and few other countries paid ransom and the hostages are alive and free

the choice of uk government is different and this scottish man is dead.

in my opinion who cares how the terrorists will use the money often the hostages are kidnapped by "regular" criminals and then sold to terrorists so the Cameron statement was not so detailed

i wonder if it will influence the referendum for indipendence

The payment of ransom for hostages just leads to more and more abductions with no consequences in sight for the perpetrators. The millions of dollars that are transferred to terror organisations annually helps to not only buy them weapons and explosives, but it helps them to grow their command and control structures, develop their technical ability, improves their supply and logistics, fund their training regimes and promotes the indoctrination of vulnerable youth.

Ransoms should not be paid. David's blood is on the hands of those weak governments and commercial organisations that have paid ransoms in the past.

u say David Blood is on the hands of government as italy danmark... and you call them weak governments...such a foolish statement....but now the hostages are free with the family

why most of the abducted are from US or UK if those governments dont pay a cent?

and again often the hostages are kidnapped by "regular" criminals.....and consequently sold to terrorists ..which makes your straight statement even foolish

My post was based on both fact and personal experience in the humanitarian context, and I can assure you that there was nothing foolish about it. Most abductions in hostile, high risk or open-conflict environments are perpetrated by warring or disenfranchised factions, or, as in some cases in the past decade abductions leading to atrocities have been committed by pro-government paramilitaries of supposedly civilised nations!

Some victims are sold on by criminals there is no doubt, but this in the humanitarian context is a tiny proportion. Also your assumption that most are US or Brit is incorrect. For example the graphic below shows actual humanitarian statistics for the year 2013; of the 131 kidnapped humanitarians I can tell you that 116 of those were national indigenous aid workers (a similar % applies to the deaths and wounded). It is a humanitarian principle that ransoms should not be paid and release should be carefully negotiated by experts; invariably this principle leads to a successful release.

I acknowledge that kidnap of a commercial nature is different. The top 5 countries where kidnapping for ransom took place in 2014 are Mexico; India; Nigeria; Pakistan and Venezuela. Poor David's vile execution for political terrorist ends is in no way related so one should be very careful not to confuse totally unrelated issues.

[rethaier]

There are some video content on the web showing what these Pr^cks do.

These guys are at war with the world. Am against capital punishment; but in times of war do unto others as they are wanting to do to you. I just hope the drones with their smart bombs can hit the spot and wipe these animals out.

Drones won't do it. It will require many boots on the ground.

[Mosha]

Well PM if they bring a knife to a fist fight, what will you do?

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply deleted.

[boomerangutang]

Where are Rambo, Chuck Norris and The Terminator when you need em'?

I hope those fighter jet pilots safely return to their bases after their bombing runs. It would be awful if one of more got caught by the bad guys and then paraded (then killed). Probably a good time for a suicide pill.

[kaobang]

italy danmark and few other countries paid ransom and the hostages are alive and free

the choice of uk government is different and this scottish man is dead.

in my opinion who cares how the terrorists will use the money often the hostages are kidnapped by "regular" criminals and then sold to terrorists so the Cameron statement was not so detailed

i wonder if it will influence the referendum for indipendence

The payment of ransom for hostages just leads to more and more abductions with no consequences in sight for the perpetrators. The millions of dollars that are transferred to terror organisations annually helps to not only buy them weapons and explosives, but it helps them to grow their command and control structures, develop their technical ability, improves their supply and logistics, fund their training regimes and promotes the indoctrination of vulnerable youth.

Ransoms should not be paid. David's blood is on the hands of those weak governments and commercial organisations that have paid ransoms in the past.

u say David Blood is on the hands of government as italy danmark... and you call them weak governments...such a foolish statement....but now the hostages are free with the family

why most of the abducted are from US or UK if those governments dont pay a cent?

and again often the hostages are kidnapped by "regular" criminals.....and consequently sold to terrorists ..which makes your straight statement even foolish

My post was based on both fact and personal experience in the humanitarian context, and I can assure you that there was nothing foolish about it. Most abductions in hostile, high risk or open-conflict environments are perpetrated by warring or disenfranchised factions, or, as in some cases in the past decade abductions leading to atrocities have been committed by pro-government paramilitaries of supposedly civilised nations!

Some victims are sold on by criminals there is no doubt, but this in the humanitarian context is a tiny proportion. Also your assumption that most are US or Brit is incorrect. For example the graphic below shows actual humanitarian statistics for the year 2013; of the 131 kidnapped humanitarians I can tell you that 116 of those were national indigenous aid workers (a similar % applies to the deaths and wounded). It is a humanitarian principle that ransoms should not be paid and release should be carefully negotiated by experts; invariably this principle leads to a successful release.

I acknowledge that kidnap of a commercial nature is different. The top 5 countries where kidnapping for ransom took place in 2014 are Mexico; India; Nigeria; Pakistan and Venezuela. Poor David's vile execution for political terrorist ends is in no way related so one should be very careful not to confuse totally unrelated issues.

image.jpg

your opinion.

today an official statement from italian government "we work to save the lifes of hostages no matter how"

in 2012 an english special army corp raided a house where an italian hostage was jailed and the raid ended with the death of the hostage.the italian government protested because it did not authorize the raid at all

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/world/africa/britain-italy-in-spat-over-failed-rescue-try-in-nigeria.html?_r=0

this part is interesting too

"It was the second hostage-recovery raid authorized by Mr. Cameron, and the second to end badly, after the United States Special Forces raid in Afghanistan in October 2010 that resulted in the death of a Scottish aid worker, Linda Norgrove, who was killed by a grenade thrown by one of the American soldiers."

the story about Linda death is really tragic ...the name of the american soldier who killed her is unknown .....not to mention that those aid workers have some insurance but not sure it works if killed by an american soldier..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/world/europe/03britain.html?scp=3&sq=Linda%20%20Norgrove&st=cse

Edited September 14, 2014 by kaobang

[phanangpete]

He will chair a cobra meeting ,yea wake up PM, the guy was beheaded. this is 2014, what are you gonna do,?

They make you look like fools, you are a public schoolboy <deleted>, you cannot respond and you know it, sorry but its soo true <deleted> !

[Duggsie]

They have chosen to act outside of the Geneva convention (designed to guarantee a level of human decency between warring parties).

So it can be easily dealt with.

Our own leaders must become more “Saddam”, “Gaddafi” and “Genghis” in our response.

When we find a terrorist, dead or alive, we publicly hang his mother, hang his father, hang his sister, his brother, his uncle and aunt. Hang his cousin and his niece and don’t forget his son and his daughter. Hang his wife and his Mullah, his teacher, his postman, his dog, his cat and even his goldfish.

Parents thereafter will replace “be careful with your dad’s car tonight, son” with “don’t you be being a terrorist tonight, son” as young Mohammed leaves the house, to meet up with his pals.

Sorted.

[Steely Dan]

This from the OP is a good one that really misses the mark entirely and completely......

In taking a big jump ahead of international bodies, America seeks to emerge as a Hollywood-style hero battling a crisis of its own making," Admiral Ali Shamkhani, secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, told state news agency IRNA

America again. So it seems that the good admiral has already seen too many Batman, Superman, Spiderman movies in the covert secrecy of his private basement movie studio or wherever he and the Iranian elites catch their Hollywood movies.

Glib and culturally deficient statements such as these reflect the nature and character of those who not only oppose countering barbarian terrorists but who actively support them as state sponsors of terror and terrorists.

This is disingenuous. This issue is hardly as simple as you suggest. The black and white you suggest is evident no where in this actual problem; this situation is very nuanced. The IS fiasco needs to be addressed, as does global jihad, but lets not send more people to die without recognizing what is really going on. This is a false flag operation if there ever has been one. The sad thing, a response must be forthcoming.

Good for anyone who supports the need to eradicate this muslim jihad BS. The very thing that the US seeks to address is largely created by the US (and proxies in the region). Parodying those who oppose your view is a silly and transparent attempt to marginalize those who disagree with you. However, I dont bite. I know your incorrect.

History will record this entire debacle as one of blowback. This is a textbook example of unintended consequences. IS was created for a limited regional end. Unable to call up shia, they were left with sunni. Unable to amass respect of sunni since surrendering Iraq to the shia, the US had to create a proxy who's appeal transcended sectarian concerns, and IS was born- the "jihad card!"

'Presto' and now we have the "jihad card." Talk about glib and trite, superficial.

The Iranian admiral is a jerk making idiotic noises. That however doesn't make the situation in the ME simple, black and white, or a fiasco.

U.S. special forces, CIA and the like and German KSK Kommando units have been on the ground there for some time because ISIS is a threat not only to the immediate ME region but to the larger area that includes Europe and extends to Australia. Anyone who might think the situation in the ME or in any Old World backward area that specializes in lawlessness treachery and butchery is a simple one, or is black and white would be a blistering fool.

You haven't lived in an Old World country society and culture where yes means no and no means double yes and I dunno means watch your back?

I agree, the use of "jihad card" was inappropriate and contributes nothing to the conversation; it was as you say.

I dont know where you are suggesting regarding my having lived here or there (or not), but I have lived and worked exactly in this location (AO) we are discussing. Moreover, my closest friends continue to work in this Area of Operations, and are covered in your description of who has "been on the ground there for some time." The problem is, we have been training the very people who are taking their skills back to the IS; and yes, others too (when I say training, I am referring to training within the past few years, not Iraq). This same thing happened with the al madhi army in Baghdad when we trained "locals" years previously.

I have a strange feeling you and I agree but that on the issue of the US being more involved with both sides of this, you do not. I get it. I had spent my entire life working for the US gov in various capacities, all of them related to this topic. It brings sadness to reach this observation; but it is inescapable. I detest Iran, and the general may be a jerk. However, he is correct. The US is fielding this proxy to fracture Iranian hegemony in the region. This is the single reason Qatar, SA, etc., would be funding a jihad that has them as the secondary targets- they simply had no better choices when the US insisted on direct negotiations with Iran, minimizing Riyadh and Doha.

Here it gets murkier. Qatar and the Saudis are not well disposed towards each other because of Qatari support for the Muslim Brotherhood. The US recently completed a multi billion dollar arms deal with Qatar, which suggests to me they are closer to them than the Saudis. There is a danger of over analyzing the situation though; Middle Eastern intervention is a fools errand if the object is to replace a tyrant with an alien concept like democracy. However when fighting against political Islam in offensive jihad mode there is no greater certainty that you will have to fight them eventually, the question is how and when.

[canuckamuck]

There are some video content on the web showing what these Pr^cks do.

These guys are at war with the world. Am against capital punishment; but in times of war do unto others as they are wanting to do to you. I just hope the drones with their smart bombs can hit the spot and wipe these animals out.

Drones won't do it. It will require many boots on the ground.

Yep, house to house sweeps with snipers on the roofs and choppers on call.

[iancnx]

Further to post #38 above.....

your opinion.

today an official statement from italian government "we work to save the lifes of hostages no matter how"

in 2012 an english special army corp raided a house where an italian hostage was jailed and the raid ended with the death of the hostage.the italian government protested because it did not authorize the raid at all

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/world/africa/britain-italy-in-spat-over-failed-rescue-try-in-nigeria.html?_r=0

this part is interesting too

"It was the second hostage-recovery raid authorized by Mr. Cameron, and the second to end badly, after the United States Special Forces raid in Afghanistan in October 2010 that resulted in the death of a Scottish aid worker, Linda Norgrove, who was killed by a grenade thrown by one of the American soldiers."

the story about Linda death is really tragic ...the name of the american soldier who killed her is unknown .....not to mention that those aid workers have some insurance but not sure it works if killed by an american soldier..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/world/europe/03britain.html?scp=3&sq=Linda%20%20Norgrove&st=cse

The two example you have chosen are worthy of discussion, and equally as tragic. I will take the opportunity to correct you, and would suggest that the NYT is perhaps not the most reliably informed resource in the public domain!

Firstly turning to the tragic loss of Linda Norgrove. Linda was British but was working for USAID. She was a high profile (US) hostage and many suggest that the Taliban would never have released her, had her imminent transfer across the border into Pakistan been successful. The decision to launch a rescue attempt whilst her location was still known was seen as the better option than a possible/probable execution later on in orange technicolor on YouTube. Any rescue attempt, anywhere, is undertaken by authorities in the full knowledge that deaths are possible.

Secondly you mention the the tragic deaths of Christopher McManus, and Franco Lamolinara, both working for an Italian Construction company when they were kidnapped by militant Islamic group Boko Haram in Nigeria and held for 10 months. Evidently Italy had agreed to a ransom but an agreement with the terror group had never been made. An opportunity to mount a rescue operation presented itself. It failed. Utterly tragic, but a further study of Boko Haram might shed some light into why this decision was taken.

The result of the latter example ended up with Italy declaring to the world that they would have paid the ransom. This leads our discussion to the abduction, by Boko Haram, of a Canadian Nun and two Italian Priests just over the Nigerian border in Cameroon in April of this year. In June all 3 were released after Italy paid a ransom and an exchange of prisoners was agreed with the Cameroon authorities. The full details of that has yet to emerge.

What is clear is the Italians Priests were targeted as a result of the Italian Government sign posting to the world that they are ready to pay off terrorists. The ransom money paid by Italy will be put to good use as the militant Islamic group Boko Haram continues to hold up to 300 Nigerian School girls in the very same jungle territory. The Italian funding of this abhorrent group will increase their ability to conceal these desperate girls who will have been taken as wives or domestic slaves, will gave been repeatedly beaten and raped and impregnated and made to submit or will have already been fully indoctrinated into Boko Harem's fundamentalist terror version of Islam. Worse still, the more ransoms that are paid by weak irresponsible governments, the more terror will be meted out on the innocent.

I have friends that are Italian Humanitarian Aid Workers. I can promise you they are not in a very comfortable place right now! Their governments interventions have well and truly backfired, but at least the Priests are OK.

Edited September 15, 2014 by iancnx

[kaobang]

if ransom helps to save lifes,lets do it..

i cant see anything weak or irresponsible in it....because its done in order to save lifes...and the terror will continue...ransom or not

[iancnx]

if ransom helps to save lifes,lets do it..

i cant see anything weak or irresponsible in it....because its done in order to save lifes...and the terror will continue...ransom or not

Explain that to the parents of the 300 school girls.

You choose to ignore the irrefutable consequences of appeasing and supporting terrorist organisations. Shame on you.

Edited September 15, 2014 by iancnx

[Krataiboy]

Cameron's crocodile tears should fool nobody. You think this creature, whose policies are responsible for the destruction of countless lives and livelihoods in his own country (where 30,000 elderly people alone die every year because they can't afford to heat their homes and thousands of children would starve to death without charity food banks), really gives a damn for the death of a young man he had never ever heard of before he was abducted?

Get real.

Cameron, like Obama, is a hard-hearted career politicianin the business of selling a new world "terror" threat in order to justify further illegal intervention and commercial plunder by the the US and European and Gulf partners in Iraq (oil) and Syria (oil, natural gas and the unfinished business of regime change).

Why else should the tame Westerm mass media be not only rah-rahing for air strikes against IS in Iraq (with Iraqi permission) and bombing raids in Syria (without, obviously, asking Assad's permission) but also agitating for "boots on the ground" to counter the new Caliphate army?

Boots are certainly needed. Not in Iraq or Syria, but up the backside of a moribund public on both sides of the Atlantic, who seem to be happily sleepwalking towards a deliberately fomented third world war, with the Gulf or Ukraine as likely flashpoints, between a couple of paranoid nuclear-armed superpowers led by megalomaniacs.

What, of course, the Western presstitutes don't tell us is that the bloodthirsty successors to the CIA-funded Al Qaida currently running amok in a convoy of US-made Humvees were initially funded, supported and trained with the help of American's vassal states in the Gulf to carry out "destabalisation" operations in the region.

One of the US's staunchest allies in the creation of this out-of-control fundamentalist Frankenstein happens to be that shining example of democracy and freedom, Saudi Arabia - where public beheadings are regularly carried out as part of the ruling Saudi family's justice (sic) system - without, of course, so much as a whimper of protest from Downing Street or the White House.

[Ulysses G.]

Cameron, like Obama, is a hard-hearted career politicianin the business of selling a new world "terror" threat in order to justify further illegal intervention and commercial plunder by the the US and European and Gulf partners in Iraq (oil) and Syria (oil, natural gas and the unfinished business of regime change).

More conspiracy theories. The Islamic terrorist threat is very real.

[kaobang]

if ransom helps to save lifes,lets do it..

i cant see anything weak or irresponsible in it....because its done in order to save lifes...and the terror will continue...ransom or not

Explain that to the parents of the 300 school girls.

You choose to ignore the irrefutable consequences of appeasing and supporting terrorist organisations. Shame on you.

you choose to ignore that despite the raids announCED BY Obama Cameron...the girls are still hostages....the nigerian army raided some villages in the area and killed lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with boko haram

and looks like you dont have any care for life of hostages you would prefer to see people dead instead of paying a ransom shame on you

Edited September 15, 2014 by kaobang

[iancnx]

if ransom helps to save lifes,lets do it..

i cant see anything weak or irresponsible in it....because its done in order to save lifes...and the terror will continue...ransom or not

Explain that to the parents of the 300 school girls.

You choose to ignore the irrefutable consequences of appeasing and supporting terrorist organisations. Shame on you.

you choose to ignore that despite the raids announCED BY Obama Cameron...the girls are still hostages....the nigerian army raided some villages in the area and killed lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with boko haram

and looks like you dont have any care for life of hostages you would prefer to see people dead instead of paying a ransom shame on you

As you clearly have nothing further of substance to add to the discussion, I see little point in playing ping pong! You choose to ignore the irrefutable consequences of appeasing and supporting terrorist organisations.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[rott]

Busy shift today Scott?

[Bwanatickey]

The reason for the high value of a British or American hostage to an organisation like ISIS , is not for the money, because they have 30 Turkish nationals, and Russian reporters as hostages, but they do not get front page tabloid coverage in the press.

The front page publicity that they have generated, by executing Americans and a Brit, one Scot, is advertising space that generates publicity, for free, and also can provide a recruitment platform, started on the internet goes viral, for IS.

[bendejo]

Well, here the US is trying to build a consensus joining forces of various countries to fight IS.

I wonder how many Brits who last week thought to keep out of it are now in support of military action because of this video.

If IS spreads out its weekly head-chopping victims to cover a bunch of different countries they won't have a friend in the world.

On the other hand what is going on originates in a family feud from the 7th century, and I can't help suspecting that some if this stuff is actually spurred on by the anti-IS side of the family.