I worked on a tourist visa, now being threatened by my agency. Help?

[mango66]

you brake the contract

you brake immigration laws,

you should not worry,

you should shame and go !

and try to work illigal in your homecountry

[scorecard]

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Hawkman, on 16 Sept 2014 - 14:58, said:Quote

I knew a Chinese girl who was teaching and was threatened with this when she wanted to move to another job and they threatened to not pay her the money she was owed.

So, she said, "Ok, I won't leave." Then as soon as she got paid at the end of the month, she quit moved to another part of Thailand into her new job. It left the Agency with a teacher short and the school angry she had just left; however, if the agency had just been fair and not threatened her, none of this would have happened.

So, if I were you, tell them you will pay, you are getting some money together, but it will take a couple of weeks, then just leave. They won't report you.

Just curious, the 'agencies' being mentioned in many posts in this thread, are they run by Thai or farang people? Are they usually properly registered businesses?

Edited September 17, 2014 by scorecard

[Hawkman]

Thai agencies from what I know.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Greg Nixon]

The police even threatened me but I found out from immigration that it was just a false threat. They have no right to keep you from returning to your country. Do not tell them when but just go.

[kinmaew]

Sorry to hear the circumstances you’re in. I wouldn't worry about the school, please think about your own situation.

It seems that they’re only interested in getting some money out of you, before you leave. I assume that this is a part of your contract to pay 50K, when you don’t finish it? Would they really take you to court? Lol…

..

The school wouldn't have any problems, as they’re using an agency. But the agency would have huge problems when “reporting” you to Immigration.

If I were you, I’d inform the agency that you’re already in touch with a lawyer. Book your ticket, fly out as you've planned.

Please consider that same agency must have plenty of dead bodies to hide and it would NEVER be in their interest to do anything against you.

Especially not informing the Immigration.

I wouldn't be concerned about anything and even if they’d try to sue you for breaking a contract, they’d bang their head against a wall.

Don’t worry, life’s too short. Best of luck. Please keep us informed how it went. Cheers-

If I interpret this correctly I see it as adopting the Thai style of dealing with problems and "Flee the scene", agree boot on other foot.

[kinmaew]

PS don't forget to send them a postcard from London of Big Ben stinking of ale poured all over the card with an "IOU" 50k baht

[BruceMangosteen]

"I went to Chiang Mai immigration to face the music. ** It went down like this. They openly blackmailed me. Accept 55,000 Baht (instead of the 6-figure amount they owed me) and we will date the cancellation so you won't have a problem. ** I chose not to be open to blackmail, told Immigration and paid up. Later, with the benefit of hindsight, I should have accepted the immoral offer from a financial point of view. But we both lost money as they were forced to hire a lawyer as well."

We are a little off topic, and in purple, but can you please refer me to the discussion where you explained this? Once you quit working, as I have posted elsewhere, you are legally obliged to cancel your Work Permit and your Extension of Stay granted on the basis of said work. Some say the first VISA is exempt from this, but i have my doubts. Anyhow, maybe you can show me where the details are. I'm very interested for obvious reasons! (I won't be canceling either when I leave)

[SDM0712]

I think you should leave before they expect you to go. Change the flight and go tomorrow, ideally a flight late at night or first thing in the morning. Don't tell anyone, even on here, just leave.

Good luck and let us know how you got on, when you arrive back in civilization.

S

Edited September 17, 2014 by SDM0712

[desmondspencer]

It's simply scare tactics don't mind them. They won't get into trouble if there's nothing in for them. Excuse the pun but too much paperwork involved

[mrfaroukh]

Just tell them fine you have no money with you and you asked your family to send you and they will get the money in 10 days and by then you are gone. And as you said reporting you will put even themselves in trouble but remember they are Thai and if they have to go to court or something they have enough time , but on the other hand you can not even afford staying in here without job and money.

[balo]

Don't worry they wont report you to the immigration , that's the last thing in their mind.

[louse1953]

Som num nar!!!

[siampolee]

Ever considered the speed at which officialdom moves here?

The odds on you getting tugged at your departure point are at the best remote.

However if you are concerned why not depart overland and fly from another country?

[TerryLH]

"Really, every man and his dog knows about schools, agencies and illigal English teachers."

Mine don't know anything about any of those subjects.

"Once you quit working, as I have posted elsewhere, you are legally obliged to cancel your Work Permit and your Extension of Stay granted on the basis of said work. Some say the first VISA is exempt from this, but i have my doubts."

Correct. No reason to doubt it.

If you're on the visa you entered the country with, you can stay until the date stamped in your passport.

If you are on an extension of stay, you need to leave the day your job ends. That's basically what the 7 days extension request is for. It gives you a few days to get your bags packed and leave. Or to arrange a trip for a new visa.

[SDM0712]

All well and good Terry but not strictly relevant here since the chap doesn't have a work permit to cancel or extension of stay granted on said work.

I'm sure he's a perfectly nice chap but it does annoy the rest of us who do get work permits.

SDM

PS I'm not an English or any other kind of teacher

Edited September 18, 2014 by SDM0712

[F4UCorsair]

Let me say what you don't want to hear. You've been dumb, and as another poster says, you haven't made it easier on others.

I also think you should pay the B50K as required by the contract YOU signed. That you were employed without a WP is irrelevant to that part of the contract. You wanted a job, secured a job on certain conditions, and now don't want to comply with those conditions??

Having said that, two choices as I see it if you want to be a jerk and not comply with your contract conditions. Leave now without telling them, or tell them you're staying and leave next week, once again without telling them. Walking out is an unsavory thing to do however you try to justify it though.

Edited September 18, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[samsensam]

you have to love thai logic. they arrange employment someone without a work visa - breaking the law - and then when it doesnt work out they are going to report you to the authorities.

very unlikely they will do anything, just leave and when you're out of the country report the agent to the police, immigration, the press and anyone else you can think of for illegally employing foreigners.

reminds me of a mate who had a disagreement with a prostitute who threatened to go to the police, he said that she didnt need to do that as he would walk to the police station with her there and then. she didnt take up his offer.

[aarontendo]

Just leave if you need to, don't bother looking back. You can always find a new job with a new one later. If you have things at home to get done then that's more important man =)

[SDM0712]

Just leave if you need to, don't bother looking back. You can always find a new job with a new one later. If you have things at home to get done then that's more important man =)

I agree, do what they would do.

SDM

[stevo2]

Let me say what you don't want to hear. You've been dumb, and as another poster says, you haven't made it easier on others.

I also think you should pay the B50K as required by the contract YOU signed. That you were employed without a WP is irrelevant to that part of the contract. You wanted a job, secured a job on certain conditions, and now don't want to comply with those conditions??

Having said that, two choices as I see it if you want to be a jerk and not comply with your contract conditions. Leave now without telling them, or tell them you're staying and leave next week, once again without telling them. Walking out is an unsavory thing to do however you try to justify it though.

If he was working without the correct visa and work permit, it is probable that the agency were the first ones to break the contract.

Not legal....contract not worth the paper it is printed on.

[aarontendo]

Look guys this ain't hard to figure out.

Most schools you're going to work illegally your first few weeks. Why? Because you came in with a tourist visa and they take their sweet ass time to get you a work permit. I'm fully qualified back home, masters, etc. Doesn't matter. Unless you're working for an international school (and even then!), or rolled the dice and accepted a job from abroad you're going to be working illegally. Just the way this industry works here. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not judging either the companies nor the employees. Just a mix of the employers tryign to save time and headache, the teacher wanting to work, and the government having a whole lot of bureacracy. To be fair, I'd imagine that the paperwork to get legal back in my country is much worse but that's not the discussion...

Also, on the issue of the contract. Those things don't hold much value, and if the company has you working illegally already I doubt that anyone should be too arsed to wonder if they'll hold up their end of the bargain all the time. A 50,000 baht penalty is extremely stupid, from what I've seen that's only when you don't give any notice. On the other hand, if you do give notice you have to question if your agency will pay, as I've heard stories that go both ways on that one. Basically they put it in there because they or the industry have been burned by bad teachers before, teachres skip out because they're getting or scared of getting burned out of a months salary. My advice: Look out for number one here. If we examine this from the poitn of view of least damage I'd say that your life can be turned sideways missing out on a month or more of salary, versus their inconvenience of having to rush to find another warm body for the classroom. The whole affair is really sad to be honest but we don't choose to world we live in.

[MobileContent]

Sorry to say but I think the OP is just plan stupid.

First of all he works illegally in Thailand and only Buddha knows for how many months/years he has played that game. Now on the end he wants to leave Thailand gets bitten back by the snake heads that offered him the job. He has always known that he works illegal in this country so no pity from me. When he worked in the country illegal on a bloody tourist visa we never heard of him but when things get sour he explains that he is a good teacher and the children love him.

Just leave the country and don't come back to Thailand.

[A1Str8]

So if they are going to report you, they will still not get the 50k.

Besides if they report you that means they also report themselves as a company that hired a person who doesn't have work permit. And they obviously knew it. It will make them lose much more than 50k.

They know it and because of that they are not going to report you.

So tell them to grow up and stop acting like children.

[brianp0803]

It is hard to always be legal when standard business practices are illegal.

I think you need an offer of job and applied for work permit to get Non-B visa, but illegal to look for a job on tourist visa.

Most people I know found a job while on a tourist visa and started working while the job "prepared the paperwork" to apply for non-b visa. Legally should wait for paperwork and leave country to get Non-b before starting.

[Soutpeel]

but illegal to look for a job on tourist visa.

No its not, please stop posting misinformation, you ca neven apply for a WP on a tourist visa...

[brianp0803]

I never said can get work permit on tourist visa.

I incorrectly though was not technically legal to look for work on tourist visa.

I thought I heard the paper work for application of work permit was to be submitted before getting paper work for non-b visa. After having non-b visa. Then the work permit could be issued. I guess I misunderstood.

I guess I was wrong

Sorry

[SDM0712]

........... but illegal to look for a job on tourist visa.

.

Yes I imagine you are probably quite correct on that point or more accurately illegal to enter the country on a tourist visa with the intention of doing anything other than tourism, as a tourist visa is for the purpose of tourism only. It is not intended for one to come here to start job hunting.

In many countries if their immigration department believe that you are not a genuine tourist, perhaps they might might have found some CVs (Resumes) in your luggage, then they might very well refuse entry. This is because they believe that the visitor's intentions may not meet the legal requirements to meet the legal definition of "tourist" and thus by strict definition of the term the visit would be illegal.

SDM

Edited September 19, 2014 by SDM0712

[SDM0712]

but illegal to look for a job on tourist visa.

No its not, please stop posting misinformation...

It's hardly tourism so would breach the terms of a tourist visa so he's probably quite right.

[aarontendo]

It is hard to always be legal when standard business practices are illegal.

I think you need an offer of job and applied for work permit to get Non-B visa, but illegal to look for a job on tourist visa.

Most people I know found a job while on a tourist visa and started working while the job "prepared the paperwork" to apply for non-b visa. Legally should wait for paperwork and leave country to get Non-b before starting.

Pretty much, the whole system is set up in such a way that teachers are illegal at some point in their tenure. Anyone else spouting off about how that's not true haven't ever taught here.

Most jobs here don't hire from abroad. So you come in on a tourist visa (DING, illegal). Most companies here don't have the foresight to hire any earlier than IMMEDIATE START, so if you do get hired you start Monday morning (DING, illegal). Typically it takes 'em right around a month, at minimum, to get your paperwork together once you are hired, assuming they're not waiting out your probation period which some companies do.

The actual system and employers arrange it for such a way that pretty much every teacher here works illegally at the beginning of their contracts. Get off your high horses gents. Yes, you could argue "LOL get a real job". But since this is a teaching section of the board how about no, yeah?

[SDM0712]

I incorrectly though was not technically legal to look for work on tourist visa.

........

I guess I was wrong

Sorry

I've heard of Sex Tourism but unless there's something like Job Seekers Tourism you are not wrong as I explained in my other posts. Enforceability is another matter though, or even a wish to enforce.

Regards

SDM