Germany: Former Nazi guard charged over 300,000 Auschwitz murders

[webfact]

Former Nazi guard charged over 300,000 Auschwitz murders

HANOVER: -- A 93-YEAR-OLD former member of the Nazi Waffen-SS has been charged with at least 300,000 counts of accessory to murder over his time at the Auschwitz death camp.

The charges in Germany relate to the around 425,000 people believed to have been deported to the camp in occupied Poland between May and July 1944, at least 300,000 of whom were killed in the gas chambers.

The accused helped remove the luggage of victims so that it was not seen by new arrivals, said prosecutors in the northern city of Hanover.

“The traces of the mass killing of concentration camp prisoners were thereby supposed to be covered for subsequent inmates,” prosecutors said in a statement.

His main role was to count the banknotes gathered from prisoners’ luggage and pass them on to the SS authorities in Berlin, they added.

Prosecutors said the accused was aware that the predominantly Jewish prisoners deemed unfit to work “were murdered directly after their arrival in the gas chambers of Auschwitz”.

Full story: http://www.news.com.au/world/former-nazi-guard-charged-over-300000-auschwitz-murders/story-fndir2ev-1227060493952

-- News.com.au 2014-09-16

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

[englishoak]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm– Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial”

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

Edited September 16, 2014 by englishoak

[awayego]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

There must be no time limit on this or any other atrocity or crime against humanity. This guy has had his freedom and normal life for seventy years or so - more than any of his alleged victims or, importantly, their families and survivors.

If guilty, HIS family should know about it and suffer the shame of it.

So what if he is half dead already? Justice may have been slow to catch up with him, and others, but justice must be seen to be done, if only as a warning to those who may think there is a universal 'statute of limitation'.

[carstenp]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

[Jingthing]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Not possible in these cases.

But don't worry, they will all be dead soon enough.

Then your issue of the Nazi criminals being too old will fade away.

[englishoak]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Did he do any time for it ? no ... did he surrender himself out of guilt ? no.... has he had a full life since unlike those he guarded ? yes.... THAT is why there must be no time limit on serious crimes against humanity.

He will be forgiven after hes served his time and still alive if found guilty... as it should be.

Edited September 16, 2014 by englishoak

[carstenp]

It has nothing to do with he's age. Sometimes people has to forgive. It's 70 years ago. And yes it was a dark time, even a lot of people from my country was loosing people.

But forgiveness after 70 years should be possibly

Not possible in these cases.

But don't worry, they will all be dead soon enough.

Then your issue of the Nazi criminals being too old will fade away.

Listen to your self for good sake. This guy was 23 years old. Who to you think was in command him????

[ezzra]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

I don't want to talk more about this. For me forgiveness is the most imported thing in the world.

He was not in command, he just followed order, and that time for 70 years ago. Do you think he cut say no

He has being living with this all his live. Properly lived in he's dream, people he sees on the street remind him on the days where he was command to do what he was doing.

For me he's forgiven for he's sins, even my father in laws has forgiven people from this time, even he has lost 3 brother.

This is forgiveness.

[chiman]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

There is no time limit for the atrocities that were committed during WW2 by the Nazi party. It's a shame they didn't find out sooner, but at the same time, he had to live with his actions all these years.

Either you have no concept of history and or you were never touched by what happened then.

Keep teaching, never forget, every child should know, or history has a way of repeating itself.

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

There is no time limit for the atrocities that were committed during WW2 by the Nazi party. It's a shame they didn't find out sooner, but at the same time, he had to live with his actions all these years.

Either you have no concept of history and or you were never touched by what happened then.

Keep teaching, never forget, every child should know, or history has a way of repeating itself.

I'm agree with you. We HAS to keep teaching our kids about it, so it will not happen again. But that said, the humanity should learn to forgive.

[goatfarmer]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning."

Nor has any of them given evidence in court.

[ezzra]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

I don't want to talk more about this. For me forgiveness is the most imported thing in the world.

He was not in command, he just followed order, and that time for 70 years ago. Do you think he cut say no

He has being living with this all his live. Properly lived in he's dream, people he sees on the street remind him on the days where he was command to do what he was doing.

For me he's forgiven for he's sins, even my father in laws has forgiven people from this time, even he has lost 3 brother.

This is forgiveness.

This is not about forgiveness, or putting on trial a decrepit old Nazi, and it's not about being too long

ago or he was just following orders, It's about remembering and learning and making sure that no

one ever, EVER, will repeat such atrocities, not to the Jews and not to any body in this world,

This is what it is all about....

[awayego]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

I don't want to talk more about this. For me forgiveness is the most imported thing in the world.

He was not in command, he just followed order, and that time for 70 years ago. Do you think he cut say no

He has being living with this all his live. Properly lived in he's dream, people he sees on the street remind him on the days where he was command to do what he was doing.

For me he's forgiven for he's sins, even my father in laws has forgiven people from this time, even he has lost 3 brother.

This is forgiveness.

It is not up to you or me to forgive this guy, if he is guilty.

Has he confessed? Has he shown remorse? Even if these are pre-requisites for forgiveness, surely it is the 300,000 or their families and survivors who have any right to forgive?

Some crimes are simply unforgiveable, regardless of age at the time, and at 23 he must have understood what he was doing, regardless of who was in command or his orders. Blindly following orders from above cannot justify such actions and has been used as an excuse by almost every Nazi convicted of war crimes.

It is simply not acceptable.

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Really, so this is your take on the holocaust? is that all you got out of it? leave him alone

it happened 60 years ago? have you learned nothing?

so he's 93 eh? how many 93 old people did he helped to kill? no one than told him to leave

them alone and forgot about them..

being an ignorant is not a crime, showing it, is....

I don't want to talk more about this. For me forgiveness is the most imported thing in the world.

He was not in command, he just followed order, and that time for 70 years ago. Do you think he cut say no

He has being living with this all his live. Properly lived in he's dream, people he sees on the street remind him on the days where he was command to do what he was doing.

For me he's forgiven for he's sins, even my father in laws has forgiven people from this time, even he has lost 3 brother.

This is forgiveness.

This is not about forgiveness, or putting on trial a decrepit old Nazi, and it's not about being too long

ago or he was just following orders, It's about remembering and learning and making sure that no

one ever, EVER, will repeat such atrocities, not to the Jews and not to any body in this world,

This is what it is all about....

It will just go in the history books later, and when we are gone from this world. Look what Stalin in the old soviet was doing. All history and we only hear about in the books and it will repeat it self later

So yes sometime we has to stop up and say. We can forgive you sins, but not forgotten

Edited September 16, 2014 by carstenp

[goatfarmer]

I think the report refers to Oskar Groening, who was in charge of property collection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning

It is a nonsense to prosecute this man other than as a formality in order to get his account on the formal record of history. He was 23 years old at the time, worked in a clerical function, and (claims to have) attempted to resign in protest. He has expressed remorse in actions, not only words.

He is also one of the main opponents of Holocaust deniers having made bold, public statements against those, such as Englishoak, above, who attempt to suggest that there were no gas chambers.

Edited September 16, 2014 by goatfarmer

[masuk]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm– Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial”

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

While the whole business was so ghastly, why on earth are they trying a 93yo baggage handler?

[englishoak]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning."

Nor has any of them given evidence in court.

Actually they could do posthumously if tested and found with traces of gassing and presented as evidence. Not hard to test for in this day and age.

[Jingthing]

Don't bother debating with holocaust deniers. It's like debating with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists.

[awayego]

I think the report refers to Oskar Groening, who was in charge of property collection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning

It is a nonsense to prosecute this man other than as a formality in order to get his account on the formal record of history. He was 23 years old at the time, worked in a clerical function, and (claims to have) attempted to resign in protest. He has expressed remorse in actions, not only words.

He is also one of the main opponents of Holocaust deniers having made bold, public statements against those, such as Englishoak, above, who attempt to suggest that there were no gas chambers.

If what you say is true, or found to be true in court, then the court should take it into consideration in mitigation and judge accordingly.

That does not mean to say that even if he was a 'baggage handler' that he should be immune from justice. He was a party to the atrocity.

[goatfarmer]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning."

Nor has any of them given evidence in court.

Actually they could do posthumously if tested and found with traces of gassing and presented as evidence. Not hard to test for in this day and age.

And where do you suggest they find a bone to analyze? I suggest you watch Mr Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred Leuchter. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0192335/

[englishoak]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm– Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial”

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

While the whole business was so ghastly, why on earth are they trying a 93yo baggage handler?

Because of the stigma and horrific profile of it mainly, More members of the Auschwitz SS garrison stood trial in Poland than anywhere else. From 1946 to 1949, about 1 thousand people suspected of committing war crimes at Auschwitz were extradited to Poland, mostly from the American occupation zone in Germany. Charges were brought against 673 people, including 21 women, more in the 60s and 70s put on trial. Not all were found guilty.

Auschwitz is one of those infamous points in history and with it all who spent time there become possibly complicit. Baggage handler or not as a guard he was there, the rest will have to be determined in his trial.

[uptheos]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Be nice to make his remaining time as miserable as possible.

Maybe they can keep him in solitary with some water soup and a crust stale piece of bread once a day'

Bed of wood planks, no blankets, no socks, lights on 24/7

Lot of Third Reich marching tunes at unbearable volume levels 24/7.

Maybe we could send him to his (paupers unmarked) grave in a really mentally unstable condition,

[Kasset Tak]

It's good to see that they are able to prosecute a war criminal. I just hope that those who are committing and are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity today and in recent years get prosecuted and sentenced much quicker!

Examples: Kim Jong-un, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, George W. Bush, Benjamin Netanyahu and so on!

[Jingthing]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

Be nice to make his remaining time as miserable as possible.

Maybe they can keep him in solitary with some water soup and a crust stale piece of bread once a day'

Bed of wood planks, no blankets, no socks, lights on 24/7

Lot of Third Reich marching tunes at unbearable volume levels 24/7.

Maybe we could send him to his (paupers unmarked) grave in a really mentally unstable condition,

Hey, he's 93. Nonstop Justin Beiber videos would probably work even better.

[carstenp]

It's good to see that they are able to prosecute a war criminal. I just hope that those who are committing and are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity today and in recent years get prosecuted and sentenced much quicker!

Examples: Kim Jong-un, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, George W. Bush, Benjamin Netanyahu and so on!

That is my point. We trying to hunt people for a war 70 years ago, but can't handle it in our time

[Kees5555]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm– Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial”

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

On televison, just a week ago, a witness spoke about the gas chambers.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Kees5555

[carstenp]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

What does being old have to do with getting away accessory to mass murder ?

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or simply killed by soldiers in camps usually by firearm Nuremberg evidence supporting witness claims should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, after all there was apparently no shortage of victims to Zyclon B and for decades we have had the technology to do these tests on victims even bones yet not one body has ever been discovered nor presented at any war crime trial

it is questionable about the gas chambers if even there or were connected since the Russians actually built the current smoke stack and supposed chambers, which isnt even connected to the building and added the roof hatches, POST war. There was an oven section for cremation but the numbers claimed to be cremated in large quantities is physically and logistically impossible.

im not saying mass murders didnt happen but all my research ive done into Auschwitz including having been there 3 times does not corroborate the claims, it was a work and even death camp yes but the gas chambers mass killings is imo highly doubtful and totally unproven with even one piece of evidence regarding gassings there.

Dead is dead, 300,000 is still that number dead and no matter the age of anyone involved they should if alive stand trial but the manner claimed is unfortunately/fortunately ? now very questionable regarding solid fact.

On tv, just a week ago, a witness spoke about the gas chambers.

I'm from Denmark, and yes there are chambers. We has a place in Denmark called froslev camp, this was a place where the nazi was keeping people from the resistance in Denmark. Judi's people and so on, and later transported to Poland. Edited September 16, 2014 by carstenp

[Ulysses G.]

For good sake, he's 93 years old, stop talking about all this ww2. Hunting old people. He's properly already on the way to the die.

As for the 300,000 killed in the gas chambers here is just one example of that in doubt According to the Red Cross, “Though many many people supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning."

Nor has any of them given evidence in court.

Actually they could do posthumously if tested and found with traces of gassing and presented as evidence. Not hard to test for in this day and age.

This is conspiracy theory stuff. There is plenty of evidence that the Jews were gassed.

Despite the difficulty of finding traces of this material 50 years later, in February, 1990, Professor Jan Markiewicz, Director of the Institute of Forensic Research in Kraków, redid the analysis.[35] Markiewicz and his team used microdiffusion techniques to test for cyanide in samples from the suspected gas chambers, from delousing chambers, and from control areas elsewhere within Auschwitz. The control samples tested negative, while cyanide residue was found in high concentrations in the delousing chambers, and lower concentrations in the homicidal gas chambers. This is consistent with the amounts required to kill lice and humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial

Edited September 16, 2014 by Ulysses G.