Poll shows most people feel Thai university graduates are unqualified

[rethaier]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

Well sir, I don't know about your spoken English, but if it resembles your English writing skill maybe you should not throw stones.

[Thai at Heart]

Its not ALL bad.

I have a Thai friend now doing his PhD in Pure Mathematics at King Mongkut University. The first year was spent honing basic mathematical skills. The end of year exam resulted in 4 out of 12 of his fellow students failing (less than 50 pc) so have to repeat the year.

My friend managed to score 100 pc.

Now he is preparing to publish his research results.

The Biggest Brain in Bangkok!

He is doing pure maths, and the first year is about honing basic maths skills?

Maybe its a good degree. Who knows.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Commerce]

The one thing that seems to have been omitted here is the fact that the students attitude determines how much or how little they learn. Many, probably most do not have an interest in learning and see uni as a way to avoid working for few years as well! They may be subject to parental pressure due to the need to maintain face, something that is not common in the West.

My Thai stepdaughter is currently halfway through taking a BA in English in BKK and with a 6 month gap this year spent 3 months in London on a full time English conversation and grammar course. She was graded as upper intermediate on completion. The reason that her spoken English is good is due to the fact that she wants to learn English and take her Masters degree in England. Furthermore having a conversation with her in English is not a problem and she also chats to her mother in English and corrects her too, much to my amusement! If the desire and will are not there then nothing much is going to be learned, regardless of the subject. Her elder sibling, after 8 years, still cannot put a sentence together and has difficulty in understanding anything but simple English words, slowly. Apart from the will to learn some people find languages easy whereas others find them hard, however, for example, Engineering etc. may come easily to them. Each to their own.

It is not student originality in attitude, unless such an attitude is inculcated and indroctrinated at an early age. Student attitude, as you said, 'is a fact' which determines how much or how little they learn. Sorry, I disagree; it is more than that. Early learning takes a huge responsibility. Why would you ridicule your own stepdaughter, by the way? Don't, or 'haven't you' rather, inculcated learning? Your own English writing isn't so hot.

[thhMan]

Its also a fact.

We interviewed many Thai graduates for a position, with them all failing the most simplest of tests, which didnt require a university skill.

Whats the point of employing 4 thais if the basics are still beyond their skillset

Perhaps letting them fail at school and universities is a lot more humane than letting them fail when it really matters!

[Just1Voice]

A couple of things here.

First. Young Thai couple in my moo ban both have Masters in English from Chula. But for me to have a conversation with them in English I have to speak slowly, and use the language I would with a 10 yr old back in the U.S. But they are just SO PROUD of their degrees.

Second. The implementation of AEC and ASEAN is going to be a major shock to Thailand. They are in no way ready for it, and are going to be trying to play "catch up" very quickly. When employers, especially those of the bigger companies have a broader base of better educated, English speaking employment pool to pick from, Thai's are going to be left holding the short end of the stick. The "loss of face" to the Thai at losing a job opportunity to someone from an "interior race, such as Filipino, Vietnamese, or even Lao because they are better educated, with a better grasp of English, is going to be almost catastrophic on the Thai psyche and their "superior race" attitude. I wouldn't be surprised to see a whole new list of jobs "reserved for Thai only" come out, covering just about everything except working in 7-ll. (And maybe that, too.) They have known for years that both AEC and ASEAN were coming, and have done nothing concrete about it.

But as they say - som nom na.

What is an "interior" race?

Well, that's the same as an "inferior" race, except they are on the inside already. lol

Or it could be a simple typo do to the fact that I slept late and was only on my first cup of coffee.

[atyclb]

namdocmai post # 6

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

I would hazard a guess that namdocmai first language is not English.

However the comments by him or her made are spot on.

i find nothing wrong with the posters english. this is just a net forum not a dissertation in language

[notmyself]

Second. The implementation of AEC and ASEAN is going to be a major shock to Thailand. They are in no way ready for it, and are going to be trying to play "catch up" very quickly. When employers, especially those of the bigger companies have a broader base of better educated, English speaking employment pool to pick from, Thai's are going to be left holding the short end of the stick.

Perhaps this the reason for the visa crackdown... supposedly opening up more jobs for Thais?

I'm in the fortunate position of having a number of good friends who will actually ask me things but only on a one to one basis and only ever out of earshot of others due to the 'face' issue. Some time back one lady who is a successful businesswomen asked how I was able to calculate large (?) multiplications so quickly. I tried to explain how 7*70 is exactly the same as 7*7 then add a 0 at the end and this was considered by her to be nothing short of magic.

The only thing that would drag me out of this country is if I had a child. There is no way whatsoever I would send my child to a school in Thailand.

[MJP]

Same with university education across the world. It's been dumbed down and many courses have little relevance to vocations.

[thailiketoo]

Thailand, unlike China, Japan, Korea and even Vietnam, does not value education.

The crap education system here is purposely that way, to keep the majority ignorant so that they don't question the ruling elite, who, by the way, have their children educated abroad.

The leading countries in having their children educated abroad are Malaysia, Singapore, China, Pakistan and Hong Kong.

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/pr199

Edited September 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[richard_smith237]

Same with university education across the world. It's been dumbed down and many courses have little relevance to vocations.

Indeed - I remember back when I graduated. I was qualified but inexperienced and unprepared..... I suspect the majority of graduates from any country and any Uni fall into this category. Thailand is no different.

For the most part the graduates in Thailand are like children, this is no different with graduates from else where.

The only difference I see is that the Graduates in Thailand tend be a dash slower where independence and critical thought is required.

[atyclb]

Thailand, unlike China, Japan, Korea and even Vietnam, does not value education.

The crap education system here is purposely that way, to keep the majority ignorant so that they don't question the ruling elite, who, by the way, have their children educated abroad.

Not sure the system is purposely maintained that way vs an old feudal system/culture of cheating that simply does not progress.

look at the last PM, her english was notably subpar and she did a masters in usa ?? theres many with money that get trophy foreign degrees but dont get a significant education.

the cultue/society does not stress meaningful education. yes theres a % of high function people but i'd like to see some references to internationally recognized awards in academia, science, literature etc etc. theres no lack of thais at famous international universities ( MIT, etc etc) but where are awards??? we hear of korean, japanese, chinese achievements. nobel llaureates from other developing nations are seen.

[heybruce]

In Thailand schools that should be called technical or trade schools are called colleges or universities. Students can learn useful skills at these schools, but they are not the equivalent to university degrees.

There are many universities in Thailand where a student need only pay the tuition and occasionally show up for class to earn a degree. Knowledgeable Thai employers know which universities fall into this category and give the diplomas the lack of respect they deserve.

There are legitimate universities in Thailand that graduate educated, ambitious, hardworking students. Many of these students do not have a good grasp of spoken English, but that is not for lack of trying to learn.

English and Thai are very different languages and difficult to learn without a language immersion experience, preferably at a young age. Most Thai students don't have the benefit of English teachers who are native English speakers, as a consequence many never develop a good grasp of the language. That is the fault of the Thai educational system, not the students.

[thailiketoo]

A joint degree in History and English requires students to think critically about how we define ‘history’ and ‘literature’, and about how the two disciplines interrelate and, in large measure, overlap. Close attention is given to changing methodologies, to the nature of evidence and to styles of argument. It is assumed that historical documents are just as much ‘texts’ as are poems, plays or novels, and are therefore subject to interpretation as works of narrative, rhetoric and, fundamentally, language. Equally, it is assumed that poems, plays and novels represent historically grounded ways of interpreting a culture.

My first job out of college was dropping bombs on short brown people. My education did an excellent job of preparing me for my career.

[umbanda]

Reading this I have to tell a related family situation..and may be somebody opinion will help me in my concern...

My wife have a 23 years old nice with a degree by Mahidol University, from a middle class parents. Her father is a Gov. school teacher. She also hold a tourist guide license. Because she cannot make an independent living here, or it is not happy about her chances, she is going for a fishery job in Japan next month. After my concerns and curiosity, she told me that she got a 5 years contract, paying travel, food and housing, and 20.000thb/month, thinking she will save money to bring back here. Even after explaining to her and her parents that in Japan that money means less than 5000thb here, and living cost in Japan is 5 times more than Thailand, nothing changed.

To make her future even more complicated, her contract states that if she leaves the job before the 5 years, she will have to pay back 100.000thb to the Japanese company. Probably its will hold her passport too. She do not speak Japanese or English.

I have reasons to be worry or not? She is a nice girl.

[atyclb]

"Poll shows most people feel Thai university graduates are unqualified"

not necessarily, if the job descriptions reads "consuming oxygen" then are they not well qualified ???

[MickGC]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

?

Hold on there, you made a speling eror, I meen a mystake. I have a Dagree in the Englis langage granted by a prestig, no presgee, no an importand Universaytee here in Bangkok. And "Scool" should be spelled "Skool"!

In a previous post namdocmai stated he can speak 5 languages and reads these forums to improve his/her english language skills. How many languages can you speak? And how good are your Thai language skills presuming you are living here in Thailand. Give the man / woman a break <deleted>.

[harrry]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

?

Hold on there, you made a speling eror, I meen a mystake. I have a Dagree in the Englis langage granted by a prestig, no presgee, no an importand Universaytee here in Bangkok. And "Scool" should be spelled "Skool"!

In a previous post namdocmai stated he can speak 5 languages and reads these forums to improve his/her english language skills. How many languages can you speak? And how good are your Thai language skills presuming you are living here in Thailand. Give the man / woman a break <deleted>.

The number of languages I speak is not relevent...though it is in fact 4 and some of another. I do speak Thai and it is the primary language of communication in my home. I however do not post a post like nomdocmai does refering to the inability of Thai University graduates not being able to speak English, which is not relevant anyway, and post doing so using the quality of English he did. In that context his lack of English skills are relevant.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand, unlike China, Japan, Korea and even Vietnam, does not value education.

The crap education system here is purposely that way, to keep the majority ignorant so that they don't question the ruling elite, who, by the way, have their children educated abroad.

Not sure the system is purposely maintained that way vs an old feudal system/culture of cheating that simply does not progress.

look at the last PM, her english was notably subpar and she did a masters in usa ?? theres many with money that get trophy foreign degrees but dont get a significant education.

the cultue/society does not stress meaningful education. yes theres a % of high function people but i'd like to see some references to internationally recognized awards in academia, science, literature etc etc. theres no lack of thais at famous international universities ( MIT, etc etc) but where are awards??? we hear of korean, japanese, chinese achievements. nobel llaureates from other developing nations are seen.

Plodprasob invented a water pusher. Pure genius

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and the expected replies to it have been removed.

[GarryP]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

?

Hold on there, you made a speling eror, I meen a mystake. I have a Dagree in the Englis langage granted by a prestig, no presgee, no an importand Universaytee here in Bangkok. And "Scool" should be spelled "Skool"!

In a previous post namdocmai stated he can speak 5 languages and reads these forums to improve his/her english language skills. How many languages can you speak? And how good are your Thai language skills presuming you are living here in Thailand. Give the man / woman a break <deleted>.

The number of languages I speak is not relevent...though it is in fact 4 and some of another. I do speak Thai and it is the primary language of communication in my home. I however do not post a post like nomdocmai does refering to the inability of Thai University graduates not being able to speak English, which is not relevant anyway, and post doing so using the quality of English he did. In that context his lack of English skills are relevant.

Bloody hell !!!!! Your English is not much better. Talk about pot and kettle.

[harrry]

In a previous post namdocmai stated he can speak 5 languages and reads these forums to improve his/her english language skills. How many languages can you speak? And how good are your Thai language skills presuming you are living here in Thailand. Give the man / woman a break <deleted>.

The number of languages I speak is not relevent...though it is in fact 4 and some of another. I do speak Thai and it is the primary language of communication in my home. I however do not post a post like nomdocmai does refering to the inability of Thai University graduates not being able to speak English, which is not relevant anyway, and post doing so using the quality of English he did. In that context his lack of English skills are relevant.

Bloody hell !!!!! Your English is not much better. Talk about pot and kettle.

Yes, that is why I do not use it to criticise a Thai University student's English.

[trogers]

Despite what many wish, the world do not revolve around English. This is true more and more every year.

It remains however the international language of banking, commerce, aviation, shipping, medicine, computing and science to name a few. If a German company wants to converse with Japanese or Chinese what language do you think they mostly use?

Thai?

[trogers]

Thailand, unlike China, Japan, Korea and even Vietnam, does not value education.

The crap education system here is purposely that way, to keep the majority ignorant so that they don't question the ruling elite, who, by the way, have their children educated abroad.

Not sure the system is purposely maintained that way vs an old feudal system/culture of cheating that simply does not progress.

look at the last PM, her english was notably subpar and she did a masters in usa ?? theres many with money that get trophy foreign degrees but dont get a significant education.

the cultue/society does not stress meaningful education. yes theres a % of high function people but i'd like to see some references to internationally recognized awards in academia, science, literature etc etc. theres no lack of thais at famous international universities ( MIT, etc etc) but where are awards??? we hear of korean, japanese, chinese achievements. nobel llaureates from other developing nations are seen.

Plodprasob invented a water pusher. Pure genius

He's got a PhD, no?

[2fishin2]

Reading this I have to tell a related family situation..and may be somebody opinion will help me in my concern...

My wife have a 23 years old nice with a degree by Mahidol University, from a middle class parents. Her father is a Gov. school teacher. She also hold a tourist guide license. Because she cannot make an independent living here, or it is not happy about her chances, she is going for a fishery job in Japan next month. After my concerns and curiosity, she told me that she got a 5 years contract, paying travel, food and housing, and 20.000thb/month, thinking she will save money to bring back here. Even after explaining to her and her parents that in Japan that money means less than 5000thb here, and living cost in Japan is 5 times more than Thailand, nothing changed.

To make her future even more complicated, her contract states that if she leaves the job before the 5 years, she will have to pay back 100.000thb to the Japanese company. Probably its will hold her passport too. She do not speak Japanese or English.

I have reasons to be worry or not? She is a nice girl.

This is shady at best! What normally happens is it winds up being a job in the sex industry of Japan. She will have her passport taken away upon entry, housed in a room with a number of other girls in similar situation, be forced to work in a snack or health club. Possibly have her room locked from he outside. Not be allowed to go anywhere because they have what, yes her passport. I lived there for 23 years. This is how they operate. No one in japan not even part time 7-11 workers get that cheap of a wage. Tell her to run far away from this!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[mrtoad]

Reading this I have to tell a related family situation..and may be somebody opinion will help me in my concern...

My wife have a 23 years old nice with a degree by Mahidol University, from a middle class parents. Her father is a Gov. school teacher. She also hold a tourist guide license. Because she cannot make an independent living here, or it is not happy about her chances, she is going for a fishery job in Japan next month. After my concerns and curiosity, she told me that she got a 5 years contract, paying travel, food and housing, and 20.000thb/month, thinking she will save money to bring back here. Even after explaining to her and her parents that in Japan that money means less than 5000thb here, and living cost in Japan is 5 times more than Thailand, nothing changed.

To make her future even more complicated, her contract states that if she leaves the job before the 5 years, she will have to pay back 100.000thb to the Japanese company. Probably its will hold her passport too. She do not speak Japanese or English.

I have reasons to be worry or not? She is a nice girl.

This is shady at best! What normally happens is it winds up being a job in the sex industry of Japan. She will have her passport taken away upon entry, housed in a room with a number of other girls in similar situation, be forced to work in a snack or health club. Possibly have her room locked from he outside. Not be allowed to go anywhere because they have what, yes her passport. I lived there for 23 years. This is how they operate. No one in japan not even part time 7-11 workers get that cheap of a wage. Tell her to run far away from this!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Totally agree it sounds like a scam. Not a good idea at all

[eldragon]

Many Thai academics have studied and earned degrees overseas - from unis with powerful reputations like MIT and LSE. Given the standard of their English and their comprehension skills, I often wonder how. Then they return to Thailand and enter academia and slip back into the "Thai mold" (as a communications lecturer ar Chula once told me). By that I presume they fail to take on board the valuable moral lessons learnt from the overseas unis and allow themselves to become once again a part of the Thai system of money and patronage. The "no one ever fails" club. Hence the belief that only 2.24% of poll respondents believe Thai graduates are qualified. It's interesting that Thais recognise the failings in their uni system. It's also interesting that no one seems to want to do anything about it, despite education reform being an "urgent priority" for the past 30 years. Thai academics must take a major share of the blame for this. They can use their collective intelligence and powers to exact change - they know it, as do you and I, yet they are failing in their moral responsibility.

Absolutely. They come back here with a positive outlook and western POV, but the system eventually 'breaks' them back to the Thai way. My observations of Thai higher education is faculty are more concerned with the status their accomplishments award them and not so much with making a change for the best.

[eldragon]

Reading this I have to tell a related family situation..and may be somebody opinion will help me in my concern...

My wife have a 23 years old nice with a degree by Mahidol University, from a middle class parents. Her father is a Gov. school teacher. She also hold a tourist guide license. Because she cannot make an independent living here, or it is not happy about her chances, she is going for a fishery job in Japan next month. After my concerns and curiosity, she told me that she got a 5 years contract, paying travel, food and housing, and 20.000thb/month, thinking she will save money to bring back here. Even after explaining to her and her parents that in Japan that money means less than 5000thb here, and living cost in Japan is 5 times more than Thailand, nothing changed.

To make her future even more complicated, her contract states that if she leaves the job before the 5 years, she will have to pay back 100.000thb to the Japanese company. Probably its will hold her passport too. She do not speak Japanese or English.

I have reasons to be worry or not? She is a nice girl.

This is shady at best! What normally happens is it winds up being a job in the sex industry of Japan. She will have her passport taken away upon entry, housed in a room with a number of other girls in similar situation, be forced to work in a snack or health club. Possibly have her room locked from he outside. Not be allowed to go anywhere because they have what, yes her passport. I lived there for 23 years. This is how they operate. No one in japan not even part time 7-11 workers get that cheap of a wage. Tell her to run far away from this!

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Agreed. This sounds like a very dangerous situation. But I can't help but wonder if we're being worked here, lads. I mean, why would a 23 year old girl with a degree from one of the top unis in TH opt for a fishing job in Japan? Also, how is it an educated girl can't see that 20K THB would be peanuts and not enought to live on in Japan.

[outsider]

Good morning! Finally you're awake!

[thailiketoo]

It's just a matter of time before some Thai educators read about; Paul Smith's College in upstate New York announced it would start offering a craft-brewing minor to all of its students. But unlike traditional brewing programs, most of these courses get into the business of craft beer—how to market, distribute, and promote the increasingly popular adult beverage.

[PJcm]

namdocmai post # 6

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

I would hazard a guess that namdocmai first language is not English.

However the comments by him or her made are spot on.

Possibility; they are being ironic; that's how I took it.