Koh Tao murders: Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

[ClutchClark]

^^ @ClutchClark. Here in the UK it's done a lot of damage to the image of Thailand and continues to do so. Are you really quoting that crass The Nation article in your defence?

You're trolling. You have been for the past two days.

I have a different opinion than you and you don't like my opinion so you accuse me of trolling.

Disgusting tactic.

Not as disgusting as calling a bloke a racist when he clearly wrote nothing of the sort, that really is a disgusting tactic.

He wrote that tourists should receive better police investigations than Thai nationals.

Call it what you want but that is a racist statement.

Let me try to make it simple enough for you.

When you say that one group deserves better treatment than another group based on their race then thats racism.

[MJP]

^^ @ClutchClark. Here in the UK it's done a lot of damage to the image of Thailand and continues to do so. Are you really quoting that crass The Nation article in your defence?

You're trolling. You have been for the past two days.

I have a different opinion than you and you don't like my opinion so you accuse me of trolling.

Disgusting tactic.

Not as disgusting as calling a bloke a racist when he clearly wrote nothing of the sort, that really is a disgusting tactic.

He wrote that tourists should receive better police investigations than Thai nationals.

Call it what you want but that is a racist statement.

Let me try to make it simple enough for you.

When you say that one group deserves better treatment than another group based on their race then thats racism.

What's the tourist police then?

Why not a tourist DSI for these situations where the chaos and inaction of local law enforcement is having a very bad impact on tourism?

[englishoak]

^^ @ClutchClark. Here in the UK it's done a lot of damage to the image of Thailand and continues to do so. Are you really quoting that crass The Nation article in your defence?

You're trolling. You have been for the past two days.

I have a different opinion than you and you don't like my opinion so you accuse me of trolling.

Disgusting tactic.

Not as disgusting as calling a bloke a racist when he clearly wrote nothing of the sort, that really is a disgusting tactic.

He wrote that tourists should receive better police investigations than Thai nationals.

Call it what you want but that is a racist statement.

Let me try to make it simple enough for you.

When you say that one group deserves better treatment than another group based on their race then thats racism.

Not if you have an industry like tourism that Thailand has and relies on. You make sure tourists are safe and when an incident happens like murder which is supposed to be rare you put your best on it.... for the nations sake that is in large part dependent on it.. they are worth more in a sense to Thailand for they affect millions of Thai dependent on the industry, thats why you protect the industry with your best, not worst or even hum drum. It also shows your nations finest face to the world not an incompetent one.

That is not racist that is good practice..... dont get out the racist card so fast, its bunk.

Edited September 19, 2014 by englishoak

[ClutchClark]

I have a different opinion than you and you don't like my opinion so you accuse me of trolling.

Disgusting tactic.

Not as disgusting as calling a bloke a racist when he clearly wrote nothing of the sort, that really is a disgusting tactic.

He wrote that tourists should receive better police investigations than Thai nationals.

Call it what you want but that is a racist statement.

Let me try to make it simple enough for you.

When you say that one group deserves better treatment than another group based on their race then thats racism.

Not if you have an industry like tourism that Thailand has and relies on. You make sure tourists are safe and when an incident happens like murder which is supposed to be rare you put your best on it.... for the nations sake that is in large part dependent on it.. they are worth more in a sense to Thailand for they affect millions of Thai dependent on the industry, thats why you protect the industry with your best, not worst or even hum drum. It also shows your nations finest face to the world not an incompetent one.

That is not racist that is good practice..... dont get out the racist card so fast, its bunk.

Now I think I understand.

Those that bring money into a community or country deserve a special treatment than everyone else.

So a business leader or someone who employs many people should receive special treatment from law enforcement as well?

You will have to excuse me but I am from a different era. I am naive enough to think every victim of assault deserves to be treated fairly and equally regardless of their economic status or race or citizenry.

I find anything less to be quite appalling.

I keep trying to imagine if tourists visited America and clamored that they should receive better law enforcement and special treatment than American citizens. I think we would kindly tell them where to stick their tourist dollars.

But to each their own.

[SteveFong]

The police are not even trying to investigate this properly, they are just trying to save face, by not finding a Thai or Thais guilty of these brutal murders. I believe the murderer or murderers are Thai. I don't believe an argument between David and another farang would have escalated into him and the girl getting there heads smashed in with a hoe, and where would the farang killer have found the hoe ?

I believe it to be local thai youths. The only problem is, this has hit the international media and the the last thing Thailand wants to admit to is that this crime was committed by Thai people. I think in the end the police will pin it on foreign Asian workers.

Lets face it the Thai police don't want to do proper police work, they just want the matter to go away so they can get back to collecting money off farangs for not wearing a helmet. To them life is so cheap, as far as they are concerned the people are dead so lets move on. Their investigations are a joke, how many times has an obvious murder been reported as a suicide ?

I wouldnt compare this to any other case in Thailand,

I will speculate that this is going to grow into an enormous eyesore for Thailand, as the PM gaffed his way into it, making it a true international incident.

I would suggest anyone with a Twitter account and contact with journalists worldwide to get them involved now,

as, the more pressure put now,

the greater the criminals are turned in,

and I do believe, they will be either turned in, or found hanging from a tree with a note on their chests identifying them as the killers, and for Thailand asking that the world accept the case closed

[englishoak]

He wrote that tourists should receive better police investigations than Thai nationals.

Call it what you want but that is a racist statement.

Let me try to make it simple enough for you.

When you say that one group deserves better treatment than another group based on their race then thats racism.

Not if you have an industry like tourism that Thailand has and relies on. You make sure tourists are safe and when an incident happens like murder which is supposed to be rare you put your best on it.... for the nations sake that is in large part dependent on it.. they are worth more in a sense to Thailand for they affect millions of Thai dependent on the industry, thats why you protect the industry with your best, not worst or even hum drum. It also shows your nations finest face to the world not an incompetent one.

That is not racist that is good practice..... dont get out the racist card so fast, its bunk.

Now I think I understand.

Those that bring money into a community or country deserve a special treatment than everyone else.

So a business leader or someone who employs many people should receive special treatment from law enforcement as well?

You will have to excuse me but I am from a different era. I am naive enough to think every victim of assault deserves to be treated fairly and equally regardless of their economic status or race or citizenry.

I find anything less to be quite appalling.

I keep trying to imagine if tourists visited America and clamored that they should receive better law enforcement and special treatment than American citizens. I think we would kindly tell them where to stick their tourist dollars.

But to each their own.

They DO get special treatment thats the bad part and the higher you go the more special treatment youll get regarding laws but thats Thailand so get used to being appalled.

[Tokay]

The police are not even trying to investigate this properly, they are just trying to save face, by not finding a Thai or Thais guilty of these brutal murders. I believe the murderer or murderers are Thai. I don't believe an argument between David and another farang would have escalated into him and the girl getting there heads smashed in with a hoe, and where would the farang killer have found the hoe ?

I believe it to be local thai youths. The only problem is, this has hit the international media and the the last thing Thailand wants to admit to is that this crime was committed by Thai people. I think in the end the police will pin it on foreign Asian workers.

Lets face it the Thai police don't want to do proper police work, they just want the matter to go away so they can get back to collecting money off farangs for not wearing a helmet. To them life is so cheap, as far as they are concerned the people are dead so lets move on. Their investigations are a joke, how many times has an obvious murder been reported as a suicide ?

I wouldnt compare this to any other case in Thailand,

I will speculate that this is going to grow into an enormous eyesore for Thailand, as the PM gaffed his way into it, making it a true international incident.

I would suggest anyone with a Twitter account and contact with journalists worldwide to get them involved now,

as, the more pressure put now,

the greater the criminals are turned in,

and I do believe, they will be either turned in, or found hanging from a tree with a note on their chests identifying them as the killers, and for Thailand asking that the world accept the case closed

Remember the deaths in Chiang Mai that were happening in the hotel? Death after death, now it's as if nothing happened. People have very short memories. Koh Tao will be packed again and it will be business as usual within 30 days, killer found or not. That's just how it works.

But I do agree, Thailand should take a major international butt whipping on this one. The police are completely inept and it's fairly obvious by now, due to the fact they are DNA testing local Thai WOMEN (and not Thai males) even though sperm was found at the scene, that they are buying time. There is no way anyone with 1/2 a brain would DNA test the women before the men when evidence has been shown that the girl was raped.

[IAMHERE]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

Well reportedly (which is of course always subject to change at any whim or.moment) the cigarette DNA matches the semen which match none of the suspects so far.

So.fair to assume it matches the killer.

Hope the police checked the type of cigarettes the victims smoked, it is possible the victims sat and smoked there earlier in the day/evening.

[Englishabc]

It is a tragic testimony to the current state of governance and justice in Thailand that little has changed since I was living and working there ten years ago. I visited Koh Tao in September 2001; a beautiful, unspoilt island with lovely local Thai people.

It never ceases to amaze me the apparent incompetence of the Thai police and their understanding of basic procedures to preserve the crime scene at all costs, and restrict movement of people in the immediate vicinity as soon as possible.

Their ever-changing public pronouncements and assumptions made to the ever-hungry press seem only to compound their apparent failure to take this terrible tragedy seriously. It is a pity that Thai culture is riddled with an obsessive fixation with 'loss of face' and what appears to be a xenophobic take on anyone who is not Thai, thereby allowing them to blame/accuse other nationals without apparently a shred of evidence.

All this is rather ironic when tourism forms such a huge part of the nation's foreign exchange earnings.

If Thailand really does want to stop being a 'developing' country it will have to completely overhaul both the police and judicial system, cracking down on what appears to be cronyism, nepotism, bribery and corruption, and poorly paid and trained police.

It is just such a shame, as ordinary Thai people are some of the nicest people you could find anywhere.

When will they change, and when will ordinary Thai people tire of the poor service that they receive from the police and the judicial system?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Englishabc

[SteveFong]

The police are not even trying to investigate this properly, they are just trying to save face, by not finding a Thai or Thais guilty of these brutal murders. I believe the murderer or murderers are Thai. I don't believe an argument between David and another farang would have escalated into him and the girl getting there heads smashed in with a hoe, and where would the farang killer have found the hoe ?

I believe it to be local thai youths. The only problem is, this has hit the international media and the the last thing Thailand wants to admit to is that this crime was committed by Thai people. I think in the end the police will pin it on foreign Asian workers.

Lets face it the Thai police don't want to do proper police work, they just want the matter to go away so they can get back to collecting money off farangs for not wearing a helmet. To them life is so cheap, as far as they are concerned the people are dead so lets move on. Their investigations are a joke, how many times has an obvious murder been reported as a suicide ?

I wouldnt compare this to any other case in Thailand,

I will speculate that this is going to grow into an enormous eyesore for Thailand, as the PM gaffed his way into it, making it a true international incident.

I would suggest anyone with a Twitter account and contact with journalists worldwide to get them involved now,

as, the more pressure put now,

the greater the criminals are turned in,

and I do believe, they will be either turned in, or found hanging from a tree with a note on their chests identifying them as the killers, and for Thailand asking that the world accept the case closed

Remember the deaths in Chiang Mai that were happening in the hotel? Death after death, now it's as if nothing happened. People have very short memories. Koh Tao will be packed again and it will be business as usual within 30 days, killer found or not. That's just how it works.

But I do agree, Thailand should take a major international butt whipping on this one. The police are completely inept and it's fairly obvious by now, due to the fact they are DNA testing local Thai WOMEN (and not Thai males) even though sperm was found at the scene, that they are buying time. There is no way anyone with 1/2 a brain would DNA test the women before the men when evidence has been shown that the girl was raped.

did you ever stop to think that one or more women could have been involved?

it is possible there is evidence suggesting at least one female was present, and, may also contain traces of the semen of the perp

in the US, DNA is now mandatory for all felony convictions to be taken and filed

[hgma]

The police assumes 'the public' want results and fast.

In 'explaining' nothing to an audience is done the same way as the TV Icon on channel 3.

First someone, a guest, explaines something to be repeated by the host icon in such a way that even the lowest form f intelligence hasn't got a clue of the reason why he, the Iconic figure, thinks its necessary to repeat what is just being said.

In giving in to press releases they, the police, release statements....with no content.

TIT

[techboy]

too much time has now passed , any potential evidence will have been contaminated or destroyed by now, this really has not shown the BiB at their best too much incompetence with the standard lazy attitude

By garrly Mr. TP you also are a forensics expert!!! Frankly, all evidence points to serious speculation that people who incessantly spew anti Thai blather without being able to back it up "don't have a clue".

[zoza]

A quote from Surat Thani police chief Kiattipong Khaosam-ang:

The semen DNA matched DNA found on the butt of an LM cigarette found beside a rock 30-50 metres from the crime scene .

Well, let's see here chief you're publicizing the brand of cigarettes that might have been discarded at the scene by the perpetrators. Now they can be sure to switch brands.

Face is the only driving force in Thailand, and it rears it ugly head here again.

This is not about solving the murders, it's all about saving face. They think they are showing us they know something. Instead, they are jeopardizing the case, and, before those of us who do know crime scene investigative procedures, making fools of themselves and therefore in fact losing face.

And if the police provided no details then you would say the lack of transparency is proof there is a cover-up.

The police are doing what police the world do--they are investigating a crime. Its a slow tedious process.

Why can't the members of this forum just let them do their job.

News flash folks. This is the real world. Its not CSI:Miami.

The case doesn't get closed in 50 minutes in real life.

you have done your best to defend the shambolic actions of the thai police who have caused the families

of the victims a great deal of heartache that could of been avoided, if the thai authorities had put the victims and their families just a little bit ahead of tourism and the need for everyone with the slightest involvement

in the case having to make ridiculous statements day by day, yeh good job NOT.

[glasswort]

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I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

Not a very intelligent assumption by either poster.

[glasswort]

I am not sure I have read whether the dna identified from the semen found in the female victim and/or on the cigarette butt was that of her boyfriend.

Now that the d.n.a. testing has supposedly eliminated all the "foreign" suspects the police should now start testing locals, including identifying and locating all those that have left since the incident. I doubt this will ever happen as it may unearth the real perpetrator and we all know that locals are never guilty of crimes against foreigners.

[lapd]

The whole thing with the shorts in the guys suitcase only to realize the police put that in there at the crime scene was just too much for me. These guys are completely incompetent.

[mezman]

I only have one word for Thai police in this matter...INCOMPETANT .

[lapd]

I am not sure I have read whether the dna identified from the semen found in the female victim and/or on the cigarette butt was that of her boyfriend.

Now that the d.n.a. testing has supposedly eliminated all the "foreign" suspects the police should now start testing locals, including identifying and locating all those that have left since the incident. I doubt this will ever happen as it may unearth the real perpetrator and we all know that locals are never guilty of crimes against foreigners.

Odds of it being a 'local' as you call them are slim to none.

[spidermike007]

The BIB have been blundering their way through this from the very outset.

How can they simulate what happened when they know nothing about it starting with how many assailants were involved ?

In trying to show how efficient they are they are only proving the very opposite.

IF, big IF, they actually arrest someone and let's not get into guilt or otherwise we will have to go through all of this again with re-constructions and every man and his dog pointing.

How much torture will the victims' families have to endure ?

We must look busy, competent and concerned. Otherwise what would the foreigners say about us? We have already been told by our superiors that the delay in finding the perpetrators is hurting our image, and that of our country. And we think it must be hurting business on our franchise island of Koh Tao. We heard that this story is in the news all over the world. That is terrible. What will people think of this place? We do not want them to think bad things about us. We are the big men. We know alot. They cannot think bad things about us. We will work hard to figure this one out.

[hound]

Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

+1

[NomadJoe]

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Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

What?

- They initially focused on migrant laborers - well reported.

- Later reports have mentioned looking at farang, but there were NO specific reports that they were only looking at farang.

- It's been mentioned several times, plus pics from CCTV that they are trying to locate an Asian man.

What?

- Migrant laborers are not Thai.

- Later reports did not merely "mention", they focused on foreigners while officials were busy sticking as many feet in as many mouths with "It can't be a Thai." comments.

- The fact that they are still using the word "Asian" still shows a propensity to want to pin it on non-Thai's when the overwhelming odds are that it is.

[NomadJoe]

And now it's being reported in other media that Thai authorities are seeking assistance from the FBI because they are unable to match DNA beyond telling if it came from a male or a female. This can not be reconciled with the many people cleared by DNA testing which has been reported in the media recently.

And you thought the Chang Mai mystery deaths and Canadian sisters on Phi Phi cases were botched...just wait...the BIB are just getting started on this one. The victims and their families deserve better.

[lapd]

Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

+1

It's true that they tend not to want to blame their own but I seriously doubt it's a Thai. It's a very small island but lots of tourists coming and going. The odds are it's some foreigner that came in on a boat. If a Thai wanted to murder and rape tourists they could do that on the mainland just as easy with much less chance of getting caught. Seriously doubt some Thai living on the island would do that for the first time or that a Thai would go there to do that. Doesn't make any sense. Also, the incidence of Thais raping and killing tourists in general is extremely rare.

[englishoak]

Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

+1

It's true that they tend not to want to blame their own but I seriously doubt it's a Thai. It's a very small island but lots of tourists coming and going. The odds are it's some foreigner that came in on a boat. If a Thai wanted to murder and rape tourists they could do that on the mainland just as easy with much less chance of getting caught. Seriously doubt some Thai living on the island would do that for the first time or that a Thai would go there to do that. Doesn't make any sense. Also, the incidence of Thais raping and killing tourists in general is extremely rare.

It does happen on the mainland and its not extremely rare, not at all. Foreigners dying via window suicide is a complete joke... only this week in BKK yet another. You would be horrified at the amount of assaults logged and reported in tourist areas they just dont get any further and the victims go home and its just another statistic.

You seriously doubt its a Thai why ? the vast majority of murders are done by Thai in Thailand just like all other nations murders are in the majority perpetrated by their own population.

[Konaboy1]

Maybe the cigerettes belonged to one of the victems

[lapd]

Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

+1

It's true that they tend not to want to blame their own but I seriously doubt it's a Thai. It's a very small island but lots of tourists coming and going. The odds are it's some foreigner that came in on a boat. If a Thai wanted to murder and rape tourists they could do that on the mainland just as easy with much less chance of getting caught. Seriously doubt some Thai living on the island would do that for the first time or that a Thai would go there to do that. Doesn't make any sense. Also, the incidence of Thais raping and killing tourists in general is extremely rare.

It does happen on the mainland and its not extremely rare, not at all. Foreigners dying via window suicide is a complete joke... only this week in BKK yet another. You would be horrified at the amount of assaults logged and reported in tourist areas they just dont get any further and the victims go home and its just another statistic.

You seriously doubt its a Thai why ? the vast majority of murders are done by Thai in Thailand just like all other nations murders are in the majority perpetrated by their own population.

Now you are trying to mix in foreigners joining the Thai diving club. Sometimes pushed but there is often very different motive there. Not at all the same as raping someone then hacking them up with a garden hoe. Selective ignorance?

You seem to really want to use this to make Thais look bad for some reason. Not even any suspects yet. If there is a DNA test to determine the ethnicity that would help.

Edited September 21, 2014 by lapd

[SteveFong]

[weaver93]

Wouldnt shock me... IF a migrant is prosecuted whose family

is in a dire financial situation.

Seems my crystal ball and tea leaves are still working.

Who'd have thought it??