Koh Tao murders: Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

[johnson36]

One would think you would close off crime scene first have 2 to 3 officer's go over the area with fine tooth comb collect all evidence run test on same maybe do plaster casts of foot prints , dust for fingerprints on alleged murder weapon. check for any suspects even Thai's. Not make public what you found or only pieces of what you found. And No way would you do search in the dark can miss small details Idiots. But here is my take It must be a Thai who did murder, One leaving weapon at crime show's it was an impluse killing maybe by someone she shunned. Use of a hoe as a weapon shows person was enraged. Maybe do to lose of face Now farang gets rejected just go to next one Thai wanting white girl get reject loss of face. Besides how many farang here want white women? very few that's why were here want Thai ladies.

That would be proper police work. Do you really think they want to do that ? I believe the murderer will be a Thai person, the police do not want to find him. Have they pulled in any Thai's yet for interviewing and DNA testing ? They want you to believe that a Thai person is not capable of doing such a thing, only we know different.

[Khun Paul]

Dear Police, follow the evidence, that you have collected ( providng of course it is not contaminated by the sheer number of BIB attending the scene). When you have the evidence find the killer and STOP telling everyone you have NO IDEA.

[ScotBkk]

Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

KOH TAO: -- Thai police conducted a two-hour crime simulation at the scene before dawn Friday where the two British tourists were killed to look into the exact time of the crime and wrap up evidence to support their earlier investigations for analysing who is or are real murderers.

The simulation started 1.00 a.m. Friday, almost the same time when the police suspected Ms Hannah Witheridge was raped and killed.

The crime simulation was supervised by Pol Gen Charumporn Suramanee, advisor to the Royal Thai Police commissioner.

The police believed the victim was raped because DNA examination revealed semen found inside the victims vagina were mixed, indicating more than one person was involved.

The DNA of the semen matched the cigarette butts the police found and collected from a log on the beach, about 50 metres from where her body lying dead.

Police said they have a witness telling them that three men, who were believed to be Myanmar workers, played guitars on the beach near the scene.

The police simulated the victim walking out of a beach restaurant and she might be followed by murderer to the log where cigarettes were found.

The police calculated the time spent and distances in order to compare with the Asian looking man captured on the CCTV video footage passing the camera back and forth. The man did not wear shirt.

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

The officer said now several hundreds of local and central police are combing the entire island looking for the Asian man on CCTV as he is now the most suspected person.

However another source said the police still did not rule out friends of one of the victims.

He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes.

But the clothes the police seized from his room was soaked with blood which could not be caused by fireworks wound.

Both Christopher and his brother James have been released into the custody of the British embassy and returned home on a flight last night.

The police will meet this afternoon in Koh Tao to wrap up all findings and set the same direction in the probe.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/night-crime-simulation-sairee-beach-look-clues/

-- Thai PBS 2014-09-19

So the cigarettes match the sperm.

Didn't someone admit that the trousers were an attempted plant, but the.friends are still suspects? Do either of the foreign friends smoke?

Which brand was it? This will give away a huge amount about the profile of the killer/s. Most farangs don't buy Kronthep....

This has more twists & turns than a rollercoaster ... if these investigators were paid for incompetence they would all be Millionaires ...........

[JacknDanny]

Well this new BBC report is about as scathing as you can get away for a BBC reporter about the handling of this and other elements of the LOS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29262496 and there is another where they say the police openly admit they don't know how many people were involved etc.

Not nearly scathing enough when you consider the first thing the Thai government did was try and apportion blame to the victims and more than tarnish a young woman's reputation suggesting she was a loose woman, then try and pin it on other Britons having announced no Thai could have done this. Then blame tourists for wearing bikini's which had nothing to do with it, because Hannah wasn't.

Thai authorities are coming out of this looking quite awful. Som nam na as they say.

They <deleted> disgust me.

Today's Guardian has it the police are now looking for 'three Westerners playing guitar on the beach' http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/thailand-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-police Because they just will not, for some reason or other, (given the BBC linked report's details of powerful Thai's on the island), fully investigate the indigenous population. I agree, disgusting.

Earlier report says these 3 westerners have been ruled out.

Now looking for second murder weapon. Metal bar was used to kill the guy. The hoe was used to kill the girl.

Hoe believed to have been taken from small garden near the scene,

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[johnson36]

As someone said earlier. Offer a reward of 100k baht upwards for information leading to the arrest of the killer, put signs up all over the island. If it is a local Thai someone will give his name for the money. Check his DNA with that found on the victims and bingo you have the killer. If 100k baht doesn't get a name try 500k or a million k baht. Eventually someone will get tempted to take the money.

[Fred Flinstone]

One would think you would close off crime scene first have 2 to 3 officer's go over the area with fine tooth comb collect all evidence run test on same maybe do plaster casts of foot prints , dust for fingerprints on alleged murder weapon. check for any suspects even Thai's. Not make public what you found or only pieces of what you found. And No way would you do search in the dark can miss small details Idiots. But here is my take It must be a Thai who did murder, One leaving weapon at crime show's it was an impluse killing maybe by someone she shunned. Use of a hoe as a weapon shows person was enraged. Maybe do to lose of face Now farang gets rejected just go to next one Thai wanting white girl get reject loss of face. Besides how many farang here want white women? very few that's why were here want Thai ladies.

That would be proper police work. Do you really think they want to do that ? I believe the murderer will be a Thai person, the police do not want to find him. Have they pulled in any Thai's yet for interviewing and DNA testing ? They want you to believe that a Thai person is not capable of doing such a thing, only we know different.

Thank you for your valuable insight and honesty.

[ScotBkk]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

Well, they must have had sperm on them since they MATCHED the DNA samples .. Sherlock .....

[randomusername]

Ok, so I wasn’t going to sign up here as there is enough speculation as to what happened on that evening but I can’t help thinking that my information may help someone.

Back in 2011 I was travelling SE Asia and decided to have an extended stay on Koh Tao for two months. I had visited Koh Tao the year previously but only managed to spend a few days on the island. Over the two months I got to know the island rather well and made friends with quite a few of the locals. However, one place that will always stick in my mind, and not for any good reason is AC Bar. Infact thinking about it now, there are three main reasons why that place sticks in my memory.

1. A very aggressive local approached me and a girl that was dancing on the dancefloor inside the bar and literally pushed me out of the way to try and dance with her. I asked what his problem was (in a friendly/non threatening manner) and I was punched in my chest. This was understandably enough to worry the girl I was with and both me and her made our exit.

1. A friend told me that he had a gun pulled on him by one of the Thai bar staff for a similar (non) reason. He was quite drunk at the time of the incident and I was not with him that night, but from what I knew about the guy, he wasn’t one to make up a story. He was living there long term at the time working at one of the dive shops as a divemaster.

1. This is the most haunting for me. I was with a Scandinavian (blonde) girl in AC Bar. We had met a few evenings before at the other popular bar on the beach front (Lotus). It was quite late in the evening and after quite a few drinks we decided to take a stroll along the beach. For those that do no know, there is a single path that leads parallel to the beach (where the cctv stills are taken from) and the bars are inbetween the path and the sand.
   We walked out of the bar on the beach side and turned left as this is the quieter section of beach. After AC bar there aren’t any more bars and it seemed like a good spot to go for a chat, which turned into going for a swim. This is the EXACT location where Hannah and David were murdered. We left our things (clothes) by the rocks and went for a swim. When we returned, we found that everything had been stolen. We searched all around the area but couldn’t find anything. We decided to walk back along the beach in the direction of AC Bar. After 50 metres or so, she found her dress that had been taken from by the rocks. I can only assume that someone was watching us as we left AC bar, followed us, stole our things and then returned that way – possibly back to the bar & discarding anything that they didn’t want.

AC bar has more CCTV cameras that would have covered more than what has been released already. Perhaps even cameras inside that would have seen the altercation that has been reported between a local and Hannah.

There are also cameras (better quality) at the 7/11 that is a little further down the beach path – in the same direction that the Thai suspect was walking.

Also, as there are no bars on that particular section of beach (200m or so) I doubt there wouldn’t have been a hoe laying around. However, there would have been a hoe up at AC bar (nearest bar) for them to rake the sand/dig for the fire show.

[tomyummer]

Round up all the migrant workers by finding out from the project owners and employers on the island, make them take off their shirts and re-enact running through the surveillance camera. Then interogate the heck out of him. He may or may not be directly part of the crime, but maybe he'll sing like a canary.

[JoeLing]

Unlikely a Ladyboy would want to rape a Brit girl. ......

.

Please can you elaborate on your assumption.

Why is it unlikely it could have been a Ladyboy?

If you live here in Thailand, you should know they can be more vicious and violent than

many men would be.

Seams to me your assumption is as good (or bad) as the police's assumption it couldn't

be Thai people commiting such a crime.

The only certainty:

- Thai officials are making a mess of it again and again.

- It was not the usual "suicide"

- It wasn't me as I was not in Koh Tao at the time

[7Heaven]

One wonders with respect that any professional approach from a crime scene that now has been tainted , any evidence or the likelihood of evidence destroyed by every man and his dog, all has but disappeared , but here's just a suggestion, how about a DNA on all employees and guests at that resort and if any guest have left , you have all their immigration info go find them, a simple saliva swab will suffice, if nothing else you have eliminated that lot.

I wouldn't give them my DNA.

But then privacy rights are pretty important to us Americans.

That was real funny. Americans are the most monitored people in the world China included

[johnson36]

Unlikely a Ladyboy would want to rape a Brit girl. ......

.

Please can you elaborate on your assumption.

Why is it unlikely it could have been a Ladyboy?

If you live here in Thailand, you should know they can be more vicious and violent than

many men would be.

Seams to me your assumption is as good (or bad) as the police's assumption it couldn't

be Thai people commiting such a crime.

The only certainty:

- Thai officials are making a mess of it again and again.

- It was not the usual "suicide"

- It wasn't me as I was not in Koh Tao at the time

They are men !

[Pii Kate]

50 cents says the final decision will be a disturbance in the feng shui that offended a ghost. That ghosts are responsible. No more investigating necessary, most Thais will believe it.

[KhnomKhnom]

Crime on an island...... the criminals had to escape, and be photographed escaping, or are still there, yes ?

[sweatalot]

Here's a wild idea: round up all the local gangs.

In the last few years I've seen an increase in local Thai gangs consisting of teenagers. Now they seem to be everywhere with their scooters, not caring about anything or any one. If Thailand doesn't address this problem, it only needs a few criminal figureheads and a large, organized mafia organization will be born from those young members. The junta should act now, decisively and using the army as enforcers if they are to do anything about it.

it only needs a few criminal figureheads and a large, organized mafia organization will be born from those young members.

ever heard of U"D"D and their leaders (inside and outside Thailand)?

edited for adding the plural s on leader

[Fred Flinstone]

Ok, so I wasn’t going to sign up here as there is enough speculation as to what happened on that evening but I can’t help thinking that my information may help someone.

Back in 2011 I was travelling SE Asia and decided to have an extended stay on Koh Tao for two months. I had visited Koh Tao the year previously but only managed to spend a few days on the island. Over the two months I got to know the island rather well and made friends with quite a few of the locals. However, one place that will always stick in my mind, and not for any good reason is AC Bar. Infact thinking about it now, there are three main reasons why that place sticks in my memory.

1. A very aggressive local approached me and a girl that was dancing on the dancefloor inside the bar and literally pushed me out of the way to try and dance with her. I asked what his problem was (in a friendly/non threatening manner) and I was punched in my chest. This was understandably enough to worry the girl I was with and both me and her made our exit.

1. A friend told me that he had a gun pulled on him by one of the Thai bar staff for a similar (non) reason. He was quite drunk at the time of the incident and I was not with him that night, but from what I knew about the guy, he wasn’t one to make up a story. He was living there long term at the time working at one of the dive shops as a divemaster.

1. This is the most haunting for me. I was with a Scandinavian (blonde) girl in AC Bar. We had met a few evenings before at the other popular bar on the beach front (Lotus). It was quite late in the evening and after quite a few drinks we decided to take a stroll along the beach. For those that do no know, there is a single path that leads parallel to the beach (where the cctv stills are taken from) and the bars are inbetween the path and the sand.

   We walked out of the bar on the beach side and turned left as this is the quieter section of beach. After AC bar there aren’t any more bars and it seemed like a good spot to go for a chat, which turned into going for a swim. This is the EXACT location where Hannah and David were murdered. We left our things (clothes) by the rocks and went for a swim. When we returned, we found that everything had been stolen. We searched all around the area but couldn’t find anything. We decided to walk back along the beach in the direction of AC Bar. After 50 metres or so, she found her dress that had been taken from by the rocks. I can only assume that someone was watching us as we left AC bar, followed us, stole our things and then returned that way – possibly back to the bar & discarding anything that they didn’t want.

AC bar has more CCTV cameras that would have covered more than what has been released already. Perhaps even cameras inside that would have seen the altercation that has been reported between a local and Hannah.

There are also cameras (better quality) at the 7/11 that is a little further down the beach path – in the same direction that the Thai suspect was walking.

Also, as there are no bars on that particular section of beach (200m or so) I doubt there wouldn’t have been a hoe laying around. However, there would have been a hoe up at AC bar (nearest bar) for them to rake the sand/dig for the fire show.

Thank you for joining and sharing this information.

Seems AC bar is of interest in this matter and in general.

UK officials need now to insist these local thugs are brought in for questioning and CCTV cameras that have footage examined in full.

If no arrests are made and this story runs cold or worse some Pasty found hung with a confession note by the chair or tree -

The fall out will run deep.

And this go down as a travesty of justice and snub to not just westerners , but civilisation and humanity as a whole.

To shelter barbaric criminals and try stitching up a westerner .

To arrogantly refuse to consider Thais as possible killers in this case.

To Botch evidence and then degrade the victims

Is unforgivable and a diplomatic incident and international manifestation of true Junta disregard for justice and freedoms

[sweatalot]

As someone said earlier. Offer a reward of 100k baht upwards for information leading to the arrest of the killer, put signs up all over the island. If it is a local Thai someone will give his name for the money. Check his DNA with that found on the victims and bingo you have the killer. If 100k baht doesn't get a name try 500k or a million k baht. Eventually someone will get tempted to take the money.

If we have the three rich families on the island

and if they want the thug found (at least it is important for their business)

they could easily take that money out.

If they don't - what does that mean?

[weaver93]

Wouldnt shock me... IF a migrant is prosecuted whose family

is in a dire financial situation.

[7Heaven]

As someone said earlier. Offer a reward of 100k baht upwards for information leading to the arrest of the killer, put signs up all over the island. If it is a local Thai someone will give his name for the money. Check his DNA with that found on the victims and bingo you have the killer. If 100k baht doesn't get a name try 500k or a million k baht. Eventually someone will get tempted to take the money.

If we have the three rich families on the island

and if they want the thug found (at least it is important for their business)

they could easily take that money out.

If they don't - what does that mean?

or turn off all ferry services to the island as long as the crime is not solved. haha

[JohnTrove]

Regarding the cigarettes (mentioned in all the threads) ...is it not possible, that they have nothing to do with the killer(s)?

There seems to be an assumption that the killer was a smoker and these were his cigs ...on a public beach where it seems tons of people may hang out and smoke and leave butts behind.

If they found a beer bottle on the beach, would they assume it was the killer's also?

The DNA on the butt matches the semen found on the girl so yes its a very important piece of evidence - whoever smoked it raped and possibly killed her.

[RealisticRon]

AC Bar could be the key, has everyone who works there been interrogated? I'm starting to loose my paitence, these <deleted> animals need to be bought to justice, hopefuly the death sentence and actually carried out.

[starkey_rich]

Good read here

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

[toooa]

Seems like a murder and then a gang rape IMHO.

99% it was done under the influence of drugs

If I was the cops I'd round up the drug dealers, they probably know who they are, and ask them who they sold drugs to that night and before, wadda and you got your list of possible suspects. If they dont cooperate I'd arrest the drug dealers via another excuse.

Can you be more specific than "drugs"? Just to set the record straight..... what did you have in mind? Coffee? Prozac? GHB? PCP? Cake? Cigarettes? Antibiotics? Mushrooms? Religion? Statism? Smak? Old Toby? Kratom? Rhinoceros Penis Extract? Lao Khao? Chang? Datura? Bath Salts? Salvia? Tea? Ketamine? Oxycodon? Khat? Beetle Juice? Coke (-a cola & or -aine)? Steroids? Peyote? Aspirin?

Its just that "drugs" is a tad vague. It's like saying "asian languages" if asked what people speak in Thailand. Feel me?

[Toscano]

Surely they are taking DNA samples fom every male on the Island ? !!!

[Toscano]

I didn't think the image seen in the surveilance video was a man , the figure seemed to be that of a woman and also the hair .

[GOLDBUGGY]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

Keep making public statements like this guys. It just shows your total lack of experience, and that you are unqualified to investigate a crime of this nature.

I don't see how putting the hoe back where they found it, instead of throwing it away, proves they are cold blooded killers, although I don't doubt they are. Putting the hoe back may have been done to throw the police off into thinking that the person who owns this hoe, like the guy who cleans the beach, is the prime suspect. Like he needed it the next day to so his work so he put it back.

As I said all along I wouldn't count Christopher Ware totally out of the picture right yet. If you are reading this Chris then I am sorry but having bloody clothes in your bag, and leaving in a hurray looks very suspicious. Even if the blood is yours. Especially when Miller had bruised fists and the blood could be from a nose bleed he cause you during the fight. Hope you have a solid alibi.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I am not sure I would walk my very attractive girlfriend down an isolated beach, after drinking, at two in the morning, and past 3 strangers. I for sure know she would not want me to. But then if I knew at least one person, as in Miller knowing Ware, and he was my roommate, then I don't think it would bother me then. Maybe even give me more of a comfort feeling.

Hum???

[JohnTrove]

I'm tired. Do I remember in another thread that the cigarette had lipstick on it?

Does the DNA on the cigarette match the semen? Doesn't it say so?

Ladyboy?

I am a bit surprised so much can be made from a cigarette found "30-50 meters" from the bodies.

Especially when it has been stated that the two victims were at a large social gathering earlier that same night in the same proximity.

What an amazing coincidence to find & test that particular cigarette and get a positive match.

I am surprised if they couldn't pull partial fingerprints from it.

I really wish people would stop making comments on an island they have never been to - the kids were at AC bar which is a good walk from the Ocean View apartments they are staying in and involves a walk down a long and very dark road

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[BestBitterPhuket]

When are these shameless people who call themselves "police" going to round up and check the LOCAL male population, of whom many on the neighboring islands are known to be involved in shady business and attacks on foreigners. UK should demand that Scotland Yard oversee the so called investigation.