America is making citizens of all countries fill out a form when creating a new account

[noendtoit]

FATCA only requires accounts of $50,000 or more to be reported. But I guess in an attempt to CYA, Thai banks are reporting all accounts ro Uncle Sam regardless of balance, cumulative or otherwise, Is this correct? That means a guy who has not filed his FBAR's, but had never had more than $15,000 cummulatively in a Thai account can expect to be caught shortly. Is this correct?

[Naam]

the W-8 BEN is not a FATCA form. it exists since decades and is meant to prevent that a foreign investor who holds U.S. assets pays tax on their proceeds.

If only that were true. In reality, one pays 15% or 30% tax in most circumstances having completed the form - a penalty for foreigners investing in America.

forgot to mention you only pay tax on share dividends but neither on bond yields nor on capital gains.

to the best of my knowledge no country exists which does not tax dividends.

[Pib]

FATCA only requires accounts of $50,000 or more to be reported. But I guess in an attempt to CYA, Thai banks are reporting all accounts ro Uncle Sam regardless of balance, cumulative or otherwise, Is this correct? That means a guy who has not filed his FBAR's, but had never had more than $15,000 cummulatively in a Thai account can expect to be caught shortly. Is this correct?

It's up to the banks from what I've read on FACTA, to include the official info on the Treasury Dept FACTA website like this partial quote below....note where it says "...unless the reporting financials institution elects otherwise...."

A. Accounts Not Required to Be Reviewed, Identified, or Reported. Unless the Reporting [FATCA Partner] Financial Institution elects otherwise, either with respect to all New Individual Accounts or, separately, with respect to any clearly identified group of such accounts, where the implementing rules in [FATCA Partner] provide for such an election, the following New Individual Accounts are not required to be reviewed, identified, or reported as U.S. Reportable Accounts:

1. A Depository Account unless the account balance exceeds $50,000 at the end of any calendar year or other appropriate reporting period.

Now since Thai banks are now requiring FACTA-type paperwork for new accounts--not knowing what future amount that account may hold...over $50K or under $50K equivalent--and I'm sure they have already have written database retrievals which would spit out reports of all Americans with any amount of deposits and interest earned which could be transmitted to the IRS. The banks may elect to only report amounts over $50K or the banks may elect to report amounts under and over $50K. Being banksters I expect they will only report the minimum and what is specifically required as they know some customers would complain, Why are you reporting my account when I don't have $50K equivalent in it? Why did you "elect" to do that? That's a violation of my privacy! Blah..blah...blah.

But for those who have been reporting their foreign accounts and interest earned to Uncle Sam (like it or not), they should have no worries that Uncle Sam will come knocking on their door regarding the unreported accounts and interest.

[fletchsmile]

W9 Jim mentions is used mainly by US citizens and people needing a US tax number or various certifications as part of their laborious form filling exercises.

W8BEN is a certificate of foreign status of beneficial ownership of instruments with US holding tax. i.e. foreigners as opposed to US citizens.

As AyG says the W8BEN will help reduce WHT for foreigners but not eliminate the tax. Most cases it reduces from 30% to 15% if there is a tax agreement between countries eg Thais, Uk, Australia.

Singaporeans remain stuck with 30%. Some US investments have even higher WHT rates eg MLPs

In many cases it just makes sense to stay away from US domiciled products investments and shares if you re a foreigner to the US.

eg given the choice of a Luxembourg ETF and the US version of the same many foreigners will be better staying away from the US version regarding WHT

Singapore REITs are very tax efficient. Often close to no tax or no tax witheld. Then nothing further to do if you are a foreigner.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited September 22, 2014 by fletchsmile

[nzvic]

Some new banking rules have just come into use in NZ - never had to show passport just to bank some money into son's a/c before...apparently USA and UK are hellbent on keeping money laundering in check so have got other countries onside to do the same. No bad thing IMO.

[fredjohnson00]

The W-8 BEN is not a FATCA form.

New Banking rules get upgraded in economic year. This is an useless debate.

[fletchsmile]

The W-8 BEN is not a FATCA form.

New Banking rules get upgraded in economic year. This is an useless debate.

As far as I can see the only people that had mentioned these two in the same post are you and Naam. Have a look back carefully. Naam brought up W8 after an American poster brought up W9.. completely different forms

So yes, congratulations to both of you on your useless and irrelevant posts... Dr.Naam seems to have enjoyed it though as he even went as far as to "like" your post

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

Fletch, I've got the impression you are, or were, working in the banking sector here in Thailand? If not, sorry, but if so, do you have any insight into how Thai banks safeguard sensitive data and information? Is there a policy or procedure for shredding and/or burning documents when no longer needed?

Not that the US Gov and in many cases of late, the US private sector, has an unblemished record on data security, just wondering what the benchmark is here. Obviously concerned about how the sensitive data on these IRS forms will be handled by Thai banks, and if transmitted digitally, what we could expect to happen to the local hard copies once no longer needed.

Jay,

It's not something I get that involved with to be honest. Thai banks do have policies on client confidentiality, sensitive information and various other related compliance policies. Breaches of those policies do happen though.

I'd rate Thailand above countries like Vietnam and Indonesia on this, but probably not up to Singapore standards. Then again even in Singapore and even with reputable banks mistakes happen. Stan Chart Singapore were pulled up a while back for someone losing confidential information about clients on discs and were fined for it.

Not something I worry about much myself really.

Cheers

Fletch

Funnily enough I saw some operational risk training material for a Thai Bank today on the subject of data confidentiality and data security. US retailer "Target" was one of the examples.

Target's lapses in the US led to confidential data on 40 million cards in the US being fraudulently put at risk, in addition to personal data on 70 million other customers. Some will be duplicates, between the two sets, but that's more than the entire population of Thailand put at risk by the breaches of a single US retailer - which isn't even a bank

Cheers

Fletch

[meand]

What if other countries get frisky and start taking accounts based upon some type of different identification system? Has this ever been attempted. There has to be a way international banks who want business can get around this American stuff. What would be wrong with opening an account only with fingerprint, or retinal scan, or both. Is it not secure enough?

[Naam]

What if other countries get frisky and start taking accounts based upon some type of different identification system? Has this ever been attempted. There has to be a way international banks who want business can get around this American stuff. What would be wrong with opening an account only with fingerprint, or retinal scan, or both. Is it not secure enough?

neither a fingerprint nor a retinal scan provides the bank with mandatory details such as, but not limited to, name, citizenship, tax residence.

i also deem it rather tedious to issue any instructions which involves taking a flight to my bank's location to verify these instructions by having one of my retinas or a thumb scanned

[Naam]

The W-8 BEN is not a FATCA form.

New Banking rules get upgraded in economic year. This is an useless debate.

As far as I can see the only people that had mentioned these two in the same post are you and Naam. Have a look back carefully. Naam brought up W8 after an American poster brought up W9.. completely different forms

So yes, congratulations to both of you on your useless and irrelevant posts... Dr.Naam seems to have enjoyed it though as he even went as far as to "like" your post

Cheers

Fletch

the fact remains that neither form is related to FATCA and another fact is that a lot of bitching complaining participants don't know this and bark up the wrong tree.

below is the new form which European banks use since july1, 2014 (we signed it!) and which Singapore banks will use (any time from now). and if somebody tells me that form violates privacy then i answer with the question "when was the last time you saw your good doctor?"

[fletchsmile]

The W-8 BEN is not a FATCA form.

New Banking rules get upgraded in economic year. This is an useless debate.

As far as I can see the only people that had mentioned these two in the same post are you and Naam. Have a look back carefully. Naam brought up W8 after an American poster brought up W9.. completely different forms

So yes, congratulations to both of you on your useless and irrelevant posts... Dr.Naam seems to have enjoyed it though as he even went as far as to "like" your post

Cheers

Fletch

the fact remains that neither form is related to FATCA and another fact is that a lot of bitching complaining participants don't know this and bark up the wrong tree.

below is the new form which European banks use since july1, 2014 (we signed it!) and which Singapore banks will use (any time from now). and if somebody tells me that form violates privacy then i answer with the question "when was the last time you saw your good doctor?"

Hehehe.. As I say I don't think anyone except you two even made the link to FATCA. Just that the US system is full of wasteful paper chases.

Back on topic:

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

The waste of a few minutes of my time filling in the form, pales into insignificance compared to

- the unnecessary waste of time and cost that most people don't see goes into this: Just think of the cost of compliance, planning, meetings, admin, systems, new processes, monitoring, people, time, aggregation and collection of data (massive issue across group companies/subsidiaries who may use different systems and be in different countries). All ultimately passed on to the customers of the financial institutions, most of which are not American.

- the arrogance of expecting others to bear these costs and threats may to make them do so

- not exactly environmentally friendly either

- what happens if 200+ other countries all want a variation completed for their purposes?

- If I look at the time I've spent professionally on this (in the last few years in different places) its hours rather than minutes, and I'm not even someone at the core of it. Zero added value to 99%+ of people's lives it touches. Multiply that by millions of people globally, and the world really has got better things it should be to doing with its time and resources just to satisfy the delusions of grandeur and self importance of those shoving it down people's throats

Imagine if all that effort and cost had been put into CSR activities, family lives, charities and communities instead

Cheers

Fletch

[Naam]

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

your objection is justified and duly noted Fletch. however, the thought of "institutions turning around" belongs to the category "wet dreams"

[glassdude007]

To all the USA chaps out there that spends time in Thailand and want a bank account in Thailand unseen by the OBAMMA crew...

all ya gotta do to fly under the FACTA radar is..FIND A THAI YOU TRUST...For me its my Teeraak,

Open a Thai savings account in your Thai lady’s name and have her get two ATM cards

One for him one for her. Deposit all the money you need from your bank in USA via atm withdrawals.

I take cash from my USA bank account,

were my paycheck goes and nest egg is stored VIA local Thai ATM machine then do cash deposits to her Thai bank. The fees are in line with or less than, the overcharging USA banks wire transfers to Thailand fee is. My ATM card even refunds me the international ATM fee after a month or so.

I have been doing this already for a couple years not because of FACTA just because it’s convenient for us with no hassles about bank laws concerning foreigners like me.. I'm not talking millions of baht or dollars but works for us to pay our monthly bills and my beer tab.. so far anyways.

[Asiantravel]

To all the USA chaps out there that spends time in Thailand and want a bank account in Thailand unseen by the OBAMMA crew...

all ya gotta do to fly under the FACTA radar is..FIND A THAI YOU TRUST...For me its my Teeraak,

Open a Thai savings account in your Thai lady’s name and have her get two ATM cards

One for him one for her. Deposit all the money you need from your bank in USA via atm withdrawals.

I take cash from my USA bank account,

were my paycheck goes and nest egg is stored VIA local Thai ATM machine then do cash deposits to her Thai bank. The fees are in line with or less than, the overcharging USA banks wire transfers to Thailand fee is. My ATM card even refunds me the international ATM fee after a month or so.

I have been doing this already for a couple years not because of FACTA just because it’s convenient for us with no hassles about bank laws concerning foreigners like me.. I'm not talking millions of baht or dollars but works for us to pay our monthly bills and my beer tab.. so far anyways.

I am quite sure you will very much be her Teeraak if you regularly keep that balance adequately topped up

[55Jay]

To all the USA chaps out there that spends time in Thailand and want a bank account in Thailand unseen by the OBAMMA crew...

all ya gotta do to fly under the FACTA radar is..FIND A THAI YOU TRUST...For me its my Teeraak,

Open a Thai savings account in your Thai lady’s name and have her get two ATM cards

One for him one for her. Deposit all the money you need from your bank in USA via atm withdrawals.

I take cash from my USA bank account,

were my paycheck goes and nest egg is stored VIA local Thai ATM machine then do cash deposits to her Thai bank. The fees are in line with or less than, the overcharging USA banks wire transfers to Thailand fee is. My ATM card even refunds me the international ATM fee after a month or so.

I have been doing this already for a couple years not because of FACTA just because it’s convenient for us with no hassles about bank laws concerning foreigners like me.. I'm not talking millions of baht or dollars but works for us to pay our monthly bills and my beer tab.. so far anyways.

Now there's a great suggestion!

[Pib]

To all the USA chaps out there that spends time in Thailand and want a bank account in Thailand unseen by the OBAMMA crew...

all ya gotta do to fly under the FACTA radar is..FIND A THAI YOU TRUST...For me its my Teeraak,

Open a Thai savings account in your Thai lady’s name and have her get two ATM cards

One for him one for her. Deposit all the money you need from your bank in USA via atm withdrawals.

I take cash from my USA bank account,

were my paycheck goes and nest egg is stored VIA local Thai ATM machine then do cash deposits to her Thai bank. The fees are in line with or less than, the overcharging USA banks wire transfers to Thailand fee is. My ATM card even refunds me the international ATM fee after a month or so.

I have been doing this already for a couple years not because of FACTA just because it’s convenient for us with no hassles about bank laws concerning foreigners like me.. I'm not talking millions of baht or dollars but works for us to pay our monthly bills and my beer tab.. so far anyways.

I am quite sure you will very much be her Teeraak if you regularly keep that balance adequately topped up

Kinda like pre-paid SIM cards...they work fine as long as you keep them topped-up, but when the balance reaches zero they don't work...don't seem to like you anymore.

[mikebike]

I can see where a bank may make it a policy that all non-Thai customers (that is, any person who can't produce a Thai ID card) will be presented with the FACTA related forms when opening a new accounts.

That wouldn't work since a person with a Thai ID card could still have dual Thai/US citizenship.

True, but the probability they are also American goes way down unless there are other indicators like applying for a joint account with a farang spouse.

I know a number of Thai's with dual US/Thai citizenship, none have a farang spouse.

[schweizer]

Back in my home country of Switzerland many banks are refusing new US customers and closing the accounts of existing ones, they have decided the risk outweighs the reward of having them as customers and the paperwork and fines for the bank are too much.

Expect other countries banks to follow suit

[55Jay]

Fletch, I've got the impression you are, or were, working in the banking sector here in Thailand? If not, sorry, but if so, do you have any insight into how Thai banks safeguard sensitive data and information? Is there a policy or procedure for shredding and/or burning documents when no longer needed?

Not that the US Gov and in many cases of late, the US private sector, has an unblemished record on data security, just wondering what the benchmark is here. Obviously concerned about how the sensitive data on these IRS forms will be handled by Thai banks, and if transmitted digitally, what we could expect to happen to the local hard copies once no longer needed.

Jay,

It's not something I get that involved with to be honest. Thai banks do have policies on client confidentiality, sensitive information and various other related compliance policies. Breaches of those policies do happen though.

I'd rate Thailand above countries like Vietnam and Indonesia on this, but probably not up to Singapore standards. Then again even in Singapore and even with reputable banks mistakes happen. Stan Chart Singapore were pulled up a while back for someone losing confidential information about clients on discs and were fined for it.

Not something I worry about much myself really.

Cheers

Fletch

Funnily enough I saw some operational risk training material for a Thai Bank today on the subject of data confidentiality and data security. US retailer "Target" was one of the examples.

Target's lapses in the US led to confidential data on 40 million cards in the US being fraudulently put at risk, in addition to personal data on 70 million other customers. Some will be duplicates, between the two sets, but that's more than the entire population of Thailand put at risk by the breaches of a single US retailer - which isn't even a bank

Cheers

Fletch

Yes, that's what I had in mind, among others (Home Depot), ref my comment about US track records on this. Pleased to hear it is a training case study here, thanks for taking the time to mention it.

I'm no expert on identify theft but still can't help wondering what the disposition of all these W9s will be once the information is entered and transmitted via the IRS' FATCA Int'l Data Sharing Portal site. Not just in Thailand either.

[Pib]

I'm no expert on identify theft but still can't help wondering what the disposition of all these W9s will be once the information is entered and transmitted via the IRS' FATCA Int'l Data Sharing Portal site. Not just in Thailand either.

They'll be filed in the same place the millions upon millions of passport copies us farangs have given various Thai govt agencies, Thai banks, etc., over the years. Don't ask me specifically where all those passport copies end up...I don't know...and I expect the folks who needed the copies don't know either.

[55Jay]

I'm no expert on identify theft but still can't help wondering what the disposition of all these W9s will be once the information is entered and transmitted via the IRS' FATCA Int'l Data Sharing Portal site. Not just in Thailand either.

They'll be filed in the same place the millions upon millions of passport copies us farangs have given various Thai govt agencies, Thai banks, etc., over the years. Don't ask me specifically where all those passport copies end up...I don't know...and I expect the folks who needed the copies don't know either.

That's why I didn't ask you, but thanks for the comment.

[fletchsmile]

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

your objection is justified and duly noted Fletch. however, the thought of "institutions turning around" belongs to the category "wet dreams"

The world is already turning and the balance of power shifting. You could be closer than you think in your predictions. Dreams for the next generation.

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance. Financial institutions turning away and not wanting to deal with US clients. Use of USD continually decreasing as a % of world trade. Russia looking closer to China and making noises about settling directly in currencies other than USD. While neither country is strong enough to tell US to their face, both are making preparations to reduce reliance on USD. Small "Alternative" to the world bank launched. Reminbi settlement outside China. Aftermath of GFC. Geopolitical tensions. US crippled with debt. GDPs growing in the East. Even Thailand does more trade with China now than the US. The massive fines the US has levied on non-US businesses in recent years: banks, BP etc...

On a personal level I was brought up in a country with a pride in strong links and shared values with the US. I see them more negatively than ever, and more and more people likewise. I'll be quite happy for my kids to shun many of the US government values in their dreams. Girls dreams though

Only a matter of time... for next generations dreams it is indeed a strong possibility... the US empire is setting and their paperwork just adds to the fire. A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

Cheers

Fletch

Edited September 24, 2014 by fletchsmile

[Soutpeel]

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

your objection is justified and duly noted Fletch. however, the thought of "institutions turning around" belongs to the category "wet dreams"

The world is already turning and the balance of power shifting. You could be closer than you think in your predictions. Dreams for the next generation.

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance. Financial institutions turning away and not wanting to deal with US clients. Use of USD continually decreasing as a % of world trade. Russia looking closer to China and making noises about settling directly in currencies other than USD. While neither country is strong enough to tell US to their face, both are making preparations to reduce reliance on USD. Small "Alternative" to the world bank launched. Reminbi settlement outside China. Aftermath of GFC. Geopolitical tensions. US crippled with debt. GDPs growing in the East. Even Thailand does more trade with China now than the US. The massive fines the US has levied on non-US businesses in recent years: banks, BP etc...

On a personal level I was brought up in a country with a pride in strong links and shared values with the US. I see them more negatively than ever, and more and more people likewise. I'll be quite happy for my kids to shun many of the US government values in their dreams. Girls dreams though

Only a matter of time... for next generations dreams it is indeed a strong possibility... the US empire is setting and their paperwork just adds to the fire. A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

Cheers

Fletch

you do know your going to branded anti-American dont you by TV finest stars and stripers

[meand]

My objection is the arrogance and meddling of the US requiring financial institutions to jump thru hoops to identify US citizens and their US threats to those financial institutions if they don't comply. I hope we soon reach a stage where institutions turn round and call them on those threats and tell them to **** off as they don't want anything to do with US and USD

your objection is justified and duly noted Fletch. however, the thought of "institutions turning around" belongs to the category "wet dreams"

The world is already turning and the balance of power shifting. You could be closer than you think in your predictions. Dreams for the next generation.

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance. Financial institutions turning away and not wanting to deal with US clients. Use of USD continually decreasing as a % of world trade. Russia looking closer to China and making noises about settling directly in currencies other than USD. While neither country is strong enough to tell US to their face, both are making preparations to reduce reliance on USD. Small "Alternative" to the world bank launched. Reminbi settlement outside China. Aftermath of GFC. Geopolitical tensions. US crippled with debt. GDPs growing in the East. Even Thailand does more trade with China now than the US. The massive fines the US has levied on non-US businesses in recent years: banks, BP etc...

On a personal level I was brought up in a country with a pride in strong links and shared values with the US. I see them more negatively than ever, and more and more people likewise. I'll be quite happy for my kids to shun many of the US government values in their dreams. Girls dreams though

Only a matter of time... for next generations dreams it is indeed a strong possibility... the US empire is setting and their paperwork just adds to the fire. A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

Cheers

Fletch

you do know your going to branded anti-American dont you by TV finest stars and stripers

His posts are solid and with appreciated insights. Americans can be annoying but they don't necessarily have to be too stupid to absorb sound logic Edited September 24, 2014 by meand

[Soutpeel]

His posts are solid and with appreciated insights. Americans can be annoying but they don't necessarily have to be too stupid to absorb sound logic

ah but you havent come across some of the more rabid star's and stripers on TV yet have you ? LOL

they start sending you photographs of the covers of various American English Dictonaries and US is the "biggest" factoids on PM's

plenty of stuff in fletchsmile's post to get them all hot under the collar...

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance

not wanting to deal with US clients

would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance

[fletchsmile]

you do know your going to branded anti-American dont you by TV finest stars and stripers

I guess I'd better not mention my thoughts on the US stock market then. In the last few months I've been selling off/reducing what used to be solid holdings in US blue chip equities:

GE - sold

Coca Cola - sold

McDonalds - sold

Apple - reduced

Intel - reduced

Kodiak Oil&Gas - sold. To be fair that one was just profit taking and was more speculative than anything. BTW that's the biggest positive I can think of for the US at the moment - large oil and gas reserves: shale oil/fracking/Bakken/Eagle etc. which will provide cheap fuel, reduce imports and hopefully help their economy. It's the only solid base I can see for helping them get out of the mess their in. Mother Nature to the rescue...

US equities in general look very over valued by almost any metric you care to pick. Wonder if I'll ever buy them back or should I boycott permanently...

Cheers

Fletch

[meand]

His posts are solid and with appreciated insights. Americans can be annoying but they don't necessarily have to be too stupid to absorb sound logic

ah but you havent come across some of the more rabid star's and stripers on TV yet have you ? LOL

they start sending you photographs of the covers of various American English Dictonaries and US is the "biggest" factoids on PM's

plenty of stuff in fletchsmile's post to get them all hot under the collar...

On almost every metric the US and USD is losing importance

not wanting to deal with US clients

would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance

President obamas speech will set him straight

That was a joke btw haha.

[JimGant]

A hundred years from WW2 would seem about right for the end of the US empire and dominance...

How about tomorrow? Doing the world's heavy lifting, for no gain that I can see, has become a real pain -- as well as costing dollars we can't afford.

NATO is a complete joke, as it serves absolutely no purpose for the US -- but it costs us plenty, since we end up paying the majority of the other members' "fair share." And still having troops stationed in Europe is ludicrous -- "no boots on the ground" anywhere, except in the homeland, should become our motto.

Our historical mistake was pissing off the Japanese, thus precipitating our entry into WWII. It would have been a lot better -- from the US perspective -- to have had Germany win. Teutonic efficiency throughout Europe would have made for a super trading partner for the US -- and, of course, with a manageable problem on the Western Front, the Germans would have nipped the Soviet problem that has followed us to this day. And the 7.5 trillion dollars we wasted restoring Europe with the Marshall Plan (which was never be paid back) would have made for a nice rainy day fund.

No, cutting off Japan's oil after that little disturbance in Nanking was typical American arrogance. And look where it got us. Oh well.

Fletch, where did you put your money after selling those stocks? Would be interesting to do a "what if I hadn't" a few years from now. Who knows -- maybe Washington will get its act together -- and we Yankees can once again live as happy isolationists, and let the rest of the world sort things out. One can only hope.....

[Pib]

Who knows -- maybe Washington will get its act together -- and we Yankees can once again live as happy isolationists, and let the rest of the world sort things out. One can only hope.....

Jim,

I wouldn't worry, once we return to happy isolationists there are plenty of countries to take our place like Russia, China, Iran,...heck, North Korea may even apply for the job. And if no other countries step-up to the plate then maybe some groups like ISIS will be willing to take a leadership role after they secure the Middle East. We'll just have to wait and see who steps-up the plate. But until then, lets just worry about FACTA annoyances and of course being concerned about the current bull market run which has now lasted over 2,000 days...it has to end soon, right?

Pib